View Full Version : SEVERE Mosin Nagant M-91/30 issues.
April 13, 2012, 09:23 PM
I went out today and played with my Mosin.
I was horrified when they called for a cease fire, and to go check and place targets.
There was only one bullet on the cardboard... at 100 yds....
So I tried again, same thing.
Then I moved it out to 200 yds to see if it made a difference...
I still had nothing.
I couldnt see high or low.
Tomorrow I'm hopefully gonna buy more ammo if I get the chance.
Go from 50 yds, out to 100, then to 200.
But I'm really upset. out of 60 rounds... 2 on target...
Then again, I shot 20 of those.
I let two others try to get it on target at 100 yds... no joy.
Any idea whats wrong?
I'm using brown bear ammo.
April 13, 2012, 09:45 PM
Military sights can be a pain on the first outing. Make sure the rear sight is set as low as possible, and start at 25 yards.That's right, 25 yds.
April 13, 2012, 09:56 PM
try at 50 and then move out to 100. betcha it's shooting high, a lot of them do.
April 13, 2012, 10:06 PM
It's reported they shoot 6 inches high @ 100
April 13, 2012, 10:25 PM
Had the same problem with my M44, but it was shooting low! I think the previous owner may have installed a taller front sight. So I started with a really big target at 50 yards and kept moving the rear sight "up" until I got on the paper. Sight setting was 300 yards at 50 yards!
April 13, 2012, 11:16 PM
Some shoot very high. I shot an m44 that literally shot 4 feet high at 75 yards. Shoot much closer and see where it is hitting. If its high, you can go to a hobby shop and get very thin metal tubing and make a taller front sight.
April 14, 2012, 09:10 AM
I have dealt with this problem a few times now that a lot of my friends have picked up Mosins lately. When we take them out the first time I put up some blank newsprint behind the target. That way I have a blank area of about 3' x 3' with no bullet holes in it. I have found that the front sights need attention for windage more than the elevation. Then we adjust the front post right or left. Elevation is easy after that. You gotta get it on paper to see where you're hitting.
April 14, 2012, 11:03 AM
I forgot about windage issues. I had to drift my front sight about 1/8 inch to move it 7 or 8 inches, but if yours got tapped for whatever reason you would need to adjust that. Just tap it with a brass punch in the opposite direction you want the bullet to go.
April 14, 2012, 02:47 PM
yes they shoot quite high with the original sites. I would just aim pretty low and see where its hitting. Ill shoot at the ground in front of the target if i can't hit the target, which gives you a good idea where your hitting compared to your aim
April 14, 2012, 05:34 PM
Start at 25 yards and work your way out to longer distances as you figure out its aim point. That way you'll know how it is shooting.
April 14, 2012, 06:54 PM
My Sons 91 30 hit very high when we got it, all we had to do was pick up some Q tips with the plastic handle, We snipped the handle out of one and slid it down over the rear sight and clipped it off about an eigth of on inch above the front sight tip. Now his rifle is on at 50 and 100 yards.
I agree with the other posters, start close, and when you get out to 100 yards use a huge backstop and see where your bullets are landing.
Part of the fun of the old rifles is the tinkering to get them on target. Good luck.
April 14, 2012, 07:46 PM
Hang a B-27 silhouette target up, mine was about 6" high @ 100yds. Actually mine still is, I haven't adjusted it yet. Kraigwy gives very detailed instructions about how to solve the issue, I'm sure he'll chime in any time now.
April 14, 2012, 07:58 PM
Try back to basics.... ??? That Brown Bear ammo is terrible stuff in my opinion....Yaaak :(
April 15, 2012, 10:05 AM
First, what is the condition of the bore, and the crown of the rifle??
If the bore is shot out, or it's a corroded sewer pipe, hang it on the wall...it likely isn't going to shoot.
Most ranges have a berm directly behind the target area. If you do, forget about 50 yards, forget about 5 foot pieces of cardboard to spot your hits.
Throw something up on the berm at 100. Whatever- a McDonalds drink cup, bowling ball (popular at one of our ranges). ANYTHING, that you can see plainly, and shoot at. You need a spotter- then shoot. Have your spotter walk you in to the target as you make adjustments. Once you're hitting the target on the berm (or close to it) put up the paper.
If your point of aim is consistent, and your point of impact is all over the place, it's a wall hanger. That is, assuming you're a decent marksman and it's the gun, and not the shooter.
April 15, 2012, 11:25 AM
Did you have the bayonette on it? If not then try shooting it with the bayonette on it. They were sighted at the factory with the bayonette on them. It changes the barrel harmonics causing it to shoot high and right in most cases.
Also look at the front sight there is an armory line on it. One will be on the sight the other on the receiver if it not lined up line it back up. If you want to sight it with the bayonette off use a mallet, and drift punch follow the bullet's point of impact on the target. If it is shooting right then move the post to the right. I did this with one just yesterday. It went from shooting 3 inches right at 25 yards to hitting a steel gong at 200 yards. It took me about 18 shots to do so. I fired 3 shots checked the target, gave it a few taps in the necessary direction. After the rifle cooled for a few minutes I fired three more shots.
Now I have to smooth out the bolt on mine. It is terribly hard to chamber a round even when the rifle is cold. I did the Bore Brite thing, and it is still hard. Looks like it is time to break out the Dremmel wheel, and compound.
April 15, 2012, 11:51 AM
Almost all the Moisin-Nagants Russian and Soviet made were sighted in with the bayonet mounted.
The exception is the M38 , which was replaced by the M44 that had a bayonet mounted to the rifle and sniper rifles.
Then we have your currant geographical location, since a rifle sighted in at 700 feet ASL taken to 10000 feet ASL will shoot to a different point.
Then there is the bullet, if the BC is drastically different from the round used to regulate your rifle this will also change how high the bullet may be on target.
Velocity is also a factor.
Sights are also in meters.
If the action still feels sticky or you are encountering chambering problems (barring something physical) cleaning the bolt in Kerosene and a good chamber brush are the best way to go, you could have case lacquer or preserving grease that has dried to the point that it is closer to concrete than grease.
April 15, 2012, 02:13 PM
I wish mine was that simple. I have cleaned, and polished the bolt lugs, and chamber. I doubt that this rifle has ever seen a laqured case. I took the cosmoline off with brake parts cleaner for the first bit. Then soaked the action in a bath of white gas. I then polished the chamber, and bolt lugs.
I also have 3 other 91-30 rifles. When I tried the bolt from them in the rifle it works just fine. Also the bolt will not properly chamber a round in anoy of the other 3 with the said bolt lug end. So I have been pollishing the crap out of it with a polishing wheel on a drill. It works a little easier but it is still not totaly right. Though that is how I got the rifle so cheap.
Extracting is fine. Even when hot. The bolt lift is not hard at all. It is closing the bolt on a round. I tried with spam can ammo, as well as my reloads in Norma brass, as well as PPU brass cased ammo. It shoots great. It just takes Herculean effort to close the dang bolt.
Ok back to polishing. If it still is hard I am gonna go with a file. At works I have to replace the part.
April 15, 2012, 02:23 PM
Best not to interchange bolt heads without checking first with a no-go gauge.
There are variations in them.
I had a 91/30 that failed a no-go gauge, and had to swap out the bolthead with one that had a slightly larger dimension to the boltface to get it to pass the gauge test.
April 15, 2012, 03:03 PM
I am not going to shoot it without the bolt that came from the factory for it. I was just checking to see if it was the bolt head that was giving problems. I also have had to file a very hard rough corner at the bottom back of the bolt handle. It was catching when closing the bolt. After a bit of filing and smoothing it is closing easier, so it looks like I am on the right track so far.
Inspection the the brass fired from the rifle shows no signs of head spacing issues. I paper clip tested them as well. Looks like someone at the factory was in a hurry, and did not smooth off a corner. I am glad I was not the poor guy in the field that got a rifle that takes a strong man to close the bolt on.
April 15, 2012, 03:09 PM
there are a few guys that sell taller front site posts which will lower your shots to where you need it. He makes them extra tall so you can just file it down alittle at a time, till its shooting where you want it
April 15, 2012, 04:04 PM
Thanks for all thetips. My mosn is in reat condition.
I fixed it up today at the range. It was shooting way right.
Elevation is a bit off. But its controlable.
I started at 25 yds. Then went outto 50.
All in all. I got her fixed. :-)
April 15, 2012, 04:14 PM
You're lucky if it only shoots 6" high they were zeroed at the factory to shoot quite high.
I used electrical wire insulation and slid it over the front sight in order to lower the point of impact which was quite an easy temporary fix.
I've since machined down the rear sight using a method that i got of Kraigky on this forum and it worked a treat.
April 15, 2012, 04:35 PM
I would set up a target at 20-25 yds, pull the bolt out of the action, prop the gun up with sand bags, line up sights on bullseye, then look down thru the barrel and see whats in the center of it, that should give you an idea if its high ,low, left or right. Its called bore sighting, no need to shoot 40 rds to see were its hitting.
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