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View Full Version : What rifle to buy REM or WTBY opinions please !


THE RAVEN
March 26, 2012, 12:54 AM
Hello all...! I ran across this forum by chance,and after reading a couple pages decided this was a great place to ask for opinions on buying a new rifle.....I don't have much experience with bolt action rifles,mainly pistols,shotguns and the AR platform......I have my choices narrowed down to two makers and thier models....Not the cheapest,not the most expensive but from what I can tell both are mid-range quality and will do what I want them to do at the range or in the woods....

1:Remington Model 700 VTR .308
2:Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 RC Varmint .308

Why you would/wouldn't chose eiher or rifle would be great...! Thanks a bunch in advance,I will appreciate any help I can get from you experts.

uncyboo
March 26, 2012, 01:07 AM
The Vanguards have a big following and obviously are great rifles with such a fan club.

I would pick the Remington because I am one of few that actually like their triggers and have had great success in getting them adjusted to where i like them.

justin251
March 26, 2012, 01:17 AM
Either is good.

The vanguard is a rebranded Howa 1500 action.

My Howa 1500 7mm mag is a great gun.

However id choose a savage model over both. cheaper and more accurate.

hooligan1
March 26, 2012, 04:20 AM
I own a Vanguard, and I love it,,, but I also like the older Rem. 700 rifles,, and if it were me shopping for a new rifle,,, I'd definetly check out Savage also and the one that felt best would go home with me.;)

Lloyd Smale
March 26, 2012, 05:50 AM
personaly id go remington.

Saltydog235
March 26, 2012, 06:29 AM
I'd also choose the Savage. They offer a number of heavier profile barrell options, stocks and have a much better factory trigger. My 700 has taken a good deal of work and money to get the way I wanted it to be, my Savages just had a scope put on them.

jmr40
March 26, 2012, 06:32 AM
In this case, Remington. For a Varmit/Tactical rifle there is mich more aftermarket support and options available down the road.

homesick
March 26, 2012, 07:16 AM
IMO Remington

mapsjanhere
March 26, 2012, 07:39 AM
Personally I think the triangular barrel is a gimmick, and I'm very happy with my Vanguard, so I'd say the Weatherby.

BigMikey76
March 26, 2012, 08:24 AM
I would go for the Remington. Both look good, and are likely to give you very similar performance. A quick google search shows the MSRP is about $300 lower on the Remington, pretty clear advantage, in my opinion.

AllenJ
March 26, 2012, 08:57 AM
If I had to choose between the two I would go with the Remington, only because of all the aftermarket parts available.

Art Eatman
March 26, 2012, 09:01 AM
RAVEN, for what do you intend to use the rifle? Remington has various models for very different uses. By and large, the Vanguard is primarily a hunting rifle.

Coyote_Buster700
March 26, 2012, 10:34 AM
^ X2

I would go with the Rem 700, and not just because i have 2 of them. ;)

Big Pard
March 26, 2012, 02:30 PM
^X3.... There are many custom rifles built on a 700 action for a reason and you have the added benefit of having a wide variety of aftermarket "trinkets" you can add as you want.

THE RAVEN
March 26, 2012, 03:01 PM
Seems to be the Remington VTR is leading so far......I am in a wheelchair,so I prefer a short barrel because length is the enemy to me,it's the weight at the end of the barrel that gets me,so the shorter the better....Those Kimber SVT's would be perfect,but they are uber expensive,and come in a .223.....I am looking for a .308....Anyone know of a smaller manufacturer that might suit my needs ?? Probably really expensive,but worth a look I guess.....Thank you everyone,I really appreciate your input so far....:)

dayman
March 26, 2012, 03:30 PM
if you're concerned about length you can always have the rifle cut down. On a bolt gun this should be relatively easy/cheap. I like the 700, but I agree the the triangular barrel is a gimick, so what I'd do is buy like the 700 SPS varmint in .308, and use the $200 you'd save to have it cut down to a more manageable length and put the rest of the savings into optics. Weatherby makes a good gun, but for the same money you'd pay for just the rifle, you should be close to a rifle and a decent scope if you go with the Remington.
- just my $.02

THE RAVEN
March 26, 2012, 03:39 PM
@dayman......I never thought of that...! I suppose any decent machine shop could do that ?? I wonder how bad it would screw up the finish on it,and what angle crown should i have put on it ?? Also.....If I went down to 16" would that mess with the accuracy much ?? I really like your idea....Thank you !

justin251
March 26, 2012, 03:41 PM
I really think you need to add savage to your list.

If possible I'd let you shoot my model 12 varminter. The bullet hits the exact spot the cross hairs are on at 100 and 200 yards. I haven't had the chance to shoot it further.

http://img.tapatalk.com/625a2eda-d556-1309.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/625a2eda-d595-8928.jpg

BigMikey76
March 26, 2012, 06:01 PM
A shorter barrell will decrease your muzzle velocity, but that will only hurt accuracy at longer ranges. You might also look into rifles that are designed with shorter barrels to begin with.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_59_110/products_id/72327/Ruger+77+Hawkeye+Compact+.308+Win+SatinBlue

Just one example, but it already has the 16.5" barrel, and it costs less than the remington you are looking at. That means you wouldn't have to make any major changes to it right away, and you would have even more to put into a scope.

CTS
March 26, 2012, 06:11 PM
Any competent gunsmith can shorten and crown your barrel for you. No, it shouldn't hurt the finish any. You could always look for something that comes with a short barrel to begin with: http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html
It is my understanding that a shorter barrel may actually be more accurate due to the barrel being stiffer. You will lose some muzzle velocity but that shouldn't affect accuracy, just amount of drop at longer ranges. The reason that you have heard for years that a longer barrel is more accurate is that with open sights, the longer barrel gives you a longer sighting radius. If using a scope, there isn't much advantage to the longer barrel unless shooting at extreme long ranges.
Here is another option if you like the 700 action, I know this is a heavy barrel model but, I have handled this rifle and it is surprisingly well balanced and only weighs a few ounces more than the VTR: http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

dayman
March 26, 2012, 06:27 PM
Rem 700 sps tactical comes at 20" barrel, and it's a thicker barrel, so it shouldn't kick as bad as some of the lightweight shorties - it's definitely on my short list.
If you're okay with cutting something down you can also look around for something lightly used - you can turn it into exactly what you want, and might be able to save some money.

Big Pard
March 26, 2012, 08:10 PM
If length and weight are a concern then perhaps a Remington Model 7 would be a better choice.

http://www.clcweb.net/Shooting/Remington_Model_7/m7-1.jpg

Saltydog235
March 27, 2012, 11:06 AM
Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine. .308 Win, 20" heavy barrel and accurate right out of the box. Mine came from the factory with about 1.5lbs of trigger pull. I shoot 46grns of Varget, Win LR primers and a 165grn Nosler Ballistic Tip for .5" MOA. And I don't lose that much velocity over a 24" barrel. It isn't a pretty rifle but it definitely gets the job done. Deer, pigs, yotes and paper targets get real scared when I tote it into the woods or range.

For some reason, that same load in the Remington 700 Tactical had more noticable recoil and showed some pressure signs.

SilentScreams
March 27, 2012, 11:10 AM
I personally have a savage in .223 for a varmint rifle. And it's very accurate. I'd recommend it to anyone, even though the bolt on mine tends to be a little stiff. As for the opinion on your rifle options, I'd go with remington. In fact, I am going with remington when I purchase the 770 in .308.

precision_shooter
March 27, 2012, 12:12 PM
Another nod for the Savage 10 with 20" barrel... Great trigger and very accurate right out of the box...

Beentown71
March 27, 2012, 01:07 PM
Howa 1500 Target/Varmint at CDNN $389...

Mine shoots a 5 shot group at .66 of an inch consistently. I use it for paper and varmints. It has become my grab and go gun. Just REALLY like it. I have a 700 standard barrel .308 and take the Howa instead. This shot was over 300 yards...

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/beentown71/hog1.jpg

dalegribble
March 27, 2012, 01:25 PM
i have 3 weatherby vanguards, excellent rifles. i have 1 remington rifle that i have had problems with. i would recommend the vanguard or move to the savage, remington isn't getting much good press these days.

shurshot
March 27, 2012, 07:10 PM
I have owned Rems and Howas (Vanguards), and both are Damn good guns. However the Remington 700 is a VERY strong action w/3 rings of steel, made in the USA, and the triggers are sweet. Do a search on this forum on both guns (Remington 700 & Weatherby Vanguard) and you will have many hours of good reading, info., etc.

ltc444
March 28, 2012, 11:13 PM
I love my Ruger 77T in 308.

Chose the rifle that fits you best. Use the same criteria you would use for a shotgun. Basically, does the weapon fall in line when you shoulder it. That eliminates the need to position rifle on the target and allows you to concentrate on fine sight adjustments.

THE RAVEN
April 7, 2012, 12:01 AM
Well.......I finally got my rifle,for those of you who helped me thanks again I really appreciate it !

Remington 700 SPS Varmint .308 (Barrel reduced to 18" w/ target Crown)
Nikon Prostaff 4x12x40 Scope
Harris SB1 6"-9" Bipod

First shoot,Easter Sunday......Wish me luck....:)

Joe Chicago
April 7, 2012, 09:22 AM
I have had bad experiences with Remington recently. I bought two Remington rifles last year that had to go back to the factory. The first was a Model Seven, which had head space issues and the second was a 597 which threw an ejector pin and had sights off center. I cannot help but conclude that Big Green has let their quality control falter of late.

I traded in my M7 for a Vanguard S2 in .308. I vote for Weatherby.

THE RAVEN
April 7, 2012, 09:42 AM
That is why I bought a Model 700.....Although to eliminate any potential problems,I had the gunsmith that did the barrel work do a once over on it and found nothing wrong....I don't think Remington has a overall quality issue,rather they had a bad run of rifles,and that can happen to any company that produces the amount of rifles and such Remington does every year.....In the end when making my choice I figured,good enough for the military,good enough for me.....Maybe you got a couple lemons ?? Sounds like it if you bought them in a close proximity of each other and they both had issues.

BigMikey76
April 7, 2012, 11:06 AM
Nice looking rifle Raven. I hope it meets your needs and provides you with years of enjoyment.

warbirdlover
April 12, 2012, 09:46 PM
Just buy a Remington SPS Tactical in .308. It comes with a 20" barrel.

tahunua001
April 19, 2012, 07:30 PM
well I have both a remington 700 and a weatherby vanguard(first gen). weatherby garantees sub MOA out of the box, remington does not. many of remingtons specialty 700s such as the sps have some sort of coating on the bolts that makes them gritty and not all that fun to operate while their more basic 700s(ADL,BDL) have the same old smooth bolt operation.

between the 2 I would say vanguard over 700. either one is going to be hard to be upset with though.

warbirdlover
April 22, 2012, 05:28 PM
My 700 Buckmasters SPS .270 Win has the black oxide type finish on the bolt and it's smooth as silk. It's also sub-MOA out of the box. Joe Chicago can bitch because he's had actual problems but don't just pass on rumors if you've never had Remington problems.

PH/CIB
April 23, 2012, 11:19 AM
Saw the OP bought a Remington and I wish him all the best with it...

Just my opinion but I would buy the Weatherby Vanguard 2 or the Savage,,,or maybe the Thompson Center Venture,,,the only Remington I would consider would be the 5R.

tahunua001
April 23, 2012, 11:32 AM
My 700 Buckmasters SPS .270 Win has the black oxide type finish on the bolt and it's smooth as silk. It's also sub-MOA out of the box. Joe Chicago can bitch because he's had actual problems but don't just pass on rumors if you've never had Remington problems.

first of all, I meant no offense, I sure wasn't expecting an off the wall comment back.

second. as stated. I own a mid 80s 700 that on a good day with match ammo is able to hold MOA. I like the action on it, however I have played with a number of 700s at my LGS' that have the coating on the bolts and they all feel like running chalkboard through the action. if it smooths out over time then I'm sorry, otherwise you just got an exception to the rule.

either way, apparently OP has already picked himeself up a rifle so this is all moot anyway.
EDIT: now that I have actually read the whole thread, congrats on the 700, I will say the your scope selection is going to be a hard one to beat. I have the same scope on my weatherby and it's one ofthe nicest I've owned.

Picher
April 24, 2012, 08:22 AM
Every barrel has tight and looser areas in the bore. Some factory barrels are worse than others and cold-forged barrels may be some of the most uniform.

If you're fussy about accuracy, then, prior to cutting any barrel, it should be slugged with lead to find the tightest spot within the approximate length desired. That spot will give you the best chance of obtaining best accuracy out of it. At the very least, don't cut it at a very loose place because gasses will leak past the bullet at the new muzzle and probably not uniformly, tipping it at the most critical location of it's flight.

Art Eatman
April 24, 2012, 11:07 AM
Decision was made; rifle was bought. Now we need a range report. :)