PDA

View Full Version : How long are the NICS Checks taking?


BGutzman
March 11, 2012, 12:12 AM
For years whenever I purchased a pistol the NICS checks always get delayed and then about 4 hours later (often less) I get the go and return to the store and pick up my purchase...

I have no convictions of any kind for anything.... Never charged with anything, not so much as a speeding ticket in my life... I have a CCW permit and carry daily...

So Im always curious why the delay in the first place but I can wait four hours... No big deal.....

Well .............

I decided the SIG itch was too strong and I broke down and bought (or attempted to buy) a Sig P290... My NICS check didnt come back for the last 8 days and still isnt in.. The stores going to complete the transaction tomorrow and that will be the end of it...

My question is NICS really so over run by new gun purchases or do you think I fell into some electronic database hole? Im not sure if I can or should try to dig into the matter further or if its truly just the mass purchases of guns going on..

Any thoughts?

BarryLee
March 11, 2012, 12:28 AM
No, I do not think they are that far behind I suspect something else delayed your approval. I have a Georgia Firearms License, so I can skip the NICS check, but when I went though it a few years ago it was literally minutes.

ScottRiqui
March 11, 2012, 12:32 AM
I'm in Virginia, and I've never gotten anything other than an instant approval. That being said, I'm not sure what makes the difference between an instant approval, a delay of a few hours, or a delay of a few days.

Regarding your situation - I thought that if a decision hadn't been rendered in three days, you could go ahead with the purchase. Has your store said why they're waiting for the ninth day to complete the transaction?

Dave Anderson
March 11, 2012, 01:48 AM
My FFL dealer gave me a bit of background on why some checks are delayed. Almost always, he says, it is because the individual shows up on a database to which access is limited, and the person doing the initial check does not have access. That means the check has to go to a more senior person who is authorized to access the database.

Our city is located near a military base and he sells quite a few guns to military personnel. Almost always they are delayed. Access to military records is strictly controlled. Another example is a security clearance. If the person applying has a security clearance it will likely be delayed, and the higher the clearance generally the longer the delay.

To give an example, let's say the person buying the gun has a top-level security clearance. The person the dealer first speaks to when requesting the NICS check wouldn't know about the clearance, or be allowed information on it. All he would know is the computer says something like "senior personnel access only" or something similar. He then sends the application to a higher level. The next person may not have access either and it may have to go still higher.

In the case of high-level security clearances there may be very few people allowed access, and those people may have a backlog, or may have finished work and gone home for the day.

It's possible people are in security databases and don't know it, or have forgotten. For example you may have once worked for a company providing a product or service to the military, and as part of the contract the company is required to provide a security check on its personnel.

The dealer told me every delayed application he's ever had was approved eventually, once the higher level official had time to look at it.

People get the wrong idea about instant versus delayed approval. They think a delayed approval means some negative information has come to light, and those far-off bureaucrats are studying all the facts, deciding whether this person is worthy or not before grudgingly giving approval.

I know people in the military who feel a delayed approval is somehow questioning their character - they'll say "Uncle Sam trusts me to [drive a tank, fly an F16] but doesn't trust me to buy a gun." In fact, Uncle Sam is just being very careful about who is allowed access to information on his military personnel.

Irish B
March 11, 2012, 03:13 AM
The last three firearms purchases I've made only took 15 min at most

PawPaw
March 11, 2012, 07:15 AM
My NICS checks are often done in seconds, but I have a very distinctive name and I always give them my SSN.

You might share a name with someone who has a ... more nefarious past? One acquaintance of mine had the same name as someone with a checkered past and had trouble getting approval, even though he was a staunch, upright citizen. His FFL recommended that he apply for a UPIN nuimber, a personal number that he puts in Block 9 and it helps him get instant approval.

From what I understand, you apply for the UPIN number and the NICS checks your record and assigns a number. When you use that number, they know exactly who you are and are able to issue a PROCEED.

Sparks1957
March 11, 2012, 07:19 AM
I have a very distinctive name and I always give them my SSN

Mine never take more than a minute or two, probably for the same reasons.

The only other person in the history of the world with my name was my great-grandfather, who fought in The Civil War and died in 1905.

ScottRiqui
March 11, 2012, 07:25 AM
Our city is located near a military base and he sells quite a few guns to military personnel. Almost always they are delayed. Access to military records is strictly controlled. Another example is a security clearance. If the person applying has a security clearance it will likely be delayed, and the higher the clearance generally the longer the delay.

To give an example, let's say the person buying the gun has a top-level security clearance. The person the dealer first speaks to when requesting the NICS check wouldn't know about the clearance, or be allowed information on it. All he would know is the computer says something like "senior personnel access only" or something similar. He then sends the application to a higher level. The next person may not have access either and it may have to go still higher.


That makes sense on the surface, but I've been on active duty for the past 18 years, have a current Top Secret/SCI security clearance from the DoD, and live in the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area, which has the highest concentration of military personnel on the East coast. I've *never* had an NICS check result in anything other than an instant approval.

If military personnel are getting delayed more often than the general population, I'm wondering if it has more to do with the fact that they're likely to have had multiple addresses in a short period of time, and it's taking longer to make sure that the background check is tracing the correct person back through time?

excelerater
March 11, 2012, 07:28 AM
did one friday and it took only a few mins

1goodshot
March 11, 2012, 07:46 AM
Here in Az Im in and out an on my way to the range in a few minutes with a ccw, no check.

Stooge
March 11, 2012, 08:17 AM
Never had one take more than a few minutes.

Tom Servo
March 11, 2012, 09:30 AM
My NICS check didnt come back for the last 8 days and still isnt in
If they haven't heard back within 3 business days, the dealer can release the gun.

Delays can happen for any number of reasons, and while we can speculate, I've never heard a definitive set of criteria that contribute. One thing I have noticed the last couple of weekends is that either the computers at the call center are running slowly, or they're understaffed. That could be a factor.

cecILL
March 11, 2012, 09:51 AM
Never not been delayed, but always approved.

Sparks1957
March 11, 2012, 10:09 AM
If they haven't heard back within 3 business days, the dealer can release the gun

That's what I thought. The person who has been waiting 8-9 days should go back to the dealer.

BGutzman
March 11, 2012, 12:35 PM
I appreciate the insights and the comments.... I did have a security clearance before I retired from the military so maybe thats part of the hold up...

The store had its own policy on how long they wait to allow the sale which was fine if frustrating....

It will be a little while before the gun buying itch hits be again but I have never had a hold this long.... Its just kind of frustrating to get a delay, especially one this long...

Its over now.... I love the P290... time to lube it up and head to the range...:)

KC Rob
March 11, 2012, 12:58 PM
Our city is located near a military base and he sells quite a few guns to military personnel. Almost always they are delayed. Access to military records is strictly controlled. Another example is a security clearance. If the person applying has a security clearance it will likely be delayed, and the higher the clearance generally the longer the delay.

A security clearance has nothing to do with it, I have a Top Secret and I get approved instantly, the dealer hangs up the phone with NICS and I am good to go.

For example you may have once worked for a company providing a product or service to the military, and as part of the contract the company is required to provide a security check on its personnel.

That isn't an issue either, security clearances aren't granted then you have one from then on out, they expire every five years and besides companies/agencies don't carry your clearance if you are do not need it any longer or use it for your job. It costs money and is a security risk to have people with active clearances who aren't using them anymore.

I don't know all the ins and outs of the NICS check system, I do know that security clearances are not the issue though.

Anyways, glad you got your gun finally, now take it to the range and blow off some steam!

Dave Anderson
March 11, 2012, 01:45 PM
My earlier comments about delays to military personnel or security clearances were not based on guesses, theory, or idle speculation. They came from the dealer who got his information from NICS personnel. incidentally this dealer himself holds a fairly high level security clearance.

If the person applying provides only ID such as driver's license and social security number then that is what the dealer conveys to his first NICS contact. If a search of those criminal records. etc comes up clean the application is approved.

However if the person also provides information leading to other data bases (such as military service, or high level government service requiring security clearance) then those are checked as well. As explained some of these data bases are only accessible by senior personnel who themselves have higher level security clearances.

KC Rob
March 11, 2012, 03:00 PM
My comments are not based on guesses, theory, idle speculation or as in your case, second hand knowledge, but rather on the fact that I am a Special Investigator with Federal Investigative Services (the agency that grants security clearances) so I know a little bit about the topic since I deal with it on a daily basis.

No where on the form 4473 are you asked to list anything pertaining to military service or "high level government service". You list your name, SSN and other info. Then your FFL asks to see your drivers license, to verify residency, then he calls NICS. At no time is your military or government background asked, discussed or disclosed. When exactly would you be providing information leading to other databases?

Where does your dealer work that requires a "fairly high level security clearance"? I thought he was a gun dealer, or is that just a part time gig? Gun dealers don't need a security clearance from the government to ply their trade, so if he is not currently working for the government he is either pulling your leg, or he previously had a clearance from government service and thinks that it is somehow still active, which it ain't. A clearance does not exist in a vacuum, it has to be held or sponsored by some agency, if you are not currently working in a field that requires one, you don't have one, even if you used to.

My original comment was not meant to be an attack on you or your dealer, I was just trying provide some clarity on a topic I happen to know a little something about.

Stealth01
March 11, 2012, 03:02 PM
Retired military, retired aerospace contractor, purchased another hand gun yesterday, in the time it took my LGS owner to read my information off to them, I was approved! Been that way for my last 6 guns!!

mrvco
March 11, 2012, 03:43 PM
I bought a pistol last week and it took less than 30 minutes... Less time than it took me to go to the ATM and grab a quick bite to eat.

But I've also seen the queue get backed up for 2-3 hours, so if I'm planning on buying, I usually plan my day so I go by the LGS first, then go run errands and come back later to pick up the goods.

Stevie-Ray
March 11, 2012, 03:53 PM
Mine have always taken seconds. My last one was when I was on a recently renewed CPL, and as such, NICS wasn't required. SURPRISE, Dicks checks with NICS anyway.:rolleyes: Didn't matter, as usual took only seconds.

Cheapshooter
March 11, 2012, 04:12 PM
BGutzman, do you put your Social Security number on the 4473. It is optional, but without it you can count on NICS delays.

KC Rob
March 11, 2012, 04:54 PM
I know in Missouri, if you are always delayed when going through the NICS check, you can get a special ID number issued that eliminates the wait. You still have to go through the whole process but the dealer gives that number to NICS and you get approved, no wait. I have never had any wait, so I haven't looked into it further, but if I was having to wait hours or days, I would definitely go that route.

Tom Servo
March 11, 2012, 07:04 PM
They came from the dealer who got his information from NICS personnel.
I don't see how he could have gotten that information. I've spoken with folks from the NICS operations center--they won't disclose the criteria to anyone.

94bluerat
March 11, 2012, 07:52 PM
I did 3 at work today. It took me longer to type in the customers info than to get the response.

OEF-Vet
March 11, 2012, 07:59 PM
I am in the military and can't discuss a security clearance. I bought a pistol 2 weeks ago and it took about an hour. My kid was getting a deer rifle and it took weeks.

BDM 9MM
March 11, 2012, 08:08 PM
Yesterday it took all of 4 1/2 Min. Dan

Erikbal
March 11, 2012, 09:16 PM
I'm in NY state and when I bought a pistol back in Jan it was like a 5 minute phone call..

TMD
March 11, 2012, 09:19 PM
My FFL dealer gave me a bit of background on why some checks are delayed. Almost always, he says, it is because the individual shows up on a database to which access is limited, and the person doing the initial check does not have access. That means the check has to go to a more senior person who is authorized to access the database.

Our city is located near a military base and he sells quite a few guns to military personnel. Almost always they are delayed. Access to military records is strictly controlled. Another example is a security clearance. If the person applying has a security clearance it will likely be delayed, and the higher the clearance generally the longer the delay.

To give an example, let's say the person buying the gun has a top-level security clearance. The person the dealer first speaks to when requesting the NICS check wouldn't know about the clearance, or be allowed information on it. All he would know is the computer says something like "senior personnel access only" or something similar. He then sends the application to a higher level. The next person may not have access either and it may have to go still higher.

I think your local FFL dealer was pulling that theory out of his back end. I spent 20 years in the Army and have worked for a defense contractor for the past 4 plus years and hold a secret clearance for my job. I have never waited more than a few minutes for approval and that was before I had a CCW.

Vermonter
March 11, 2012, 09:36 PM
I have never given my ssn and never had it take more than a few mins.

Dave Anderson
March 11, 2012, 10:29 PM
Just got home from a day at the range, glad to see everyone is having fun with this thread. The person who gave me the information is a part-time dealer and 30+ year career law enforcement officer, currently with a department of homeland security.

Another officer I've known 25+ years is authorized to do security clearance checks. He tells me he's never heard of a "Top Secret" security clearance and doesn't think there is such a thing except in movies. Maybe only super secret people know about it, though I'd have thought such people wouldn't talk about it on a public forum.

Anyways it's nothing to me either way, believe who and what you want. It is wonderful and deeply moving to learn so many people get prompt approval. I do so myself, never considered it particularly noteworthy, or as evidence the government reposes special trust in me.

I felt the information might be of use to the OP who, as he mentioned in a later post, did indeed have a military background and security clearance. Probably just coincidence.

hoytinak
March 11, 2012, 10:36 PM
Actually there's 3 levels of clearances.....Confidential (level I) , Secret (level II) and Top Secret (level III).

Well 4 if you count the Interim, but it's not really a clearance.

ScottRiqui
March 11, 2012, 10:43 PM
Another officer I've known 25+ years is authorized to do security clearance checks. He tells me he's never heard of a "Top Secret" security clearance and doesn't think there is such a thing except in movies. Maybe only super secret people know about it, though I'd have thought such people wouldn't talk about it on a public forum.

Your friend is either feigning ignorance of Top Secret clearances, or he's an idiot. Confidential, Secret, Top Secret, and SCI are all well-established and well-known US clearance levels. They're not even particularly uncommon.

And there's nothing secret about *having* a particular clearance level. In fact, they're highly prized by many employers in the civilian sector, so if a retiring service member has a clearance that's still active, it's usually prominently featured in his resumé if he's applying for a position where it would be useful.

stevelyn
March 11, 2012, 11:58 PM
I have a security clearance from my military days which causes a delay while they go scare up a higher level NICS monkey to access my records. Usually cleared by the time I get done scratching out the 4473.

KC Rob
March 12, 2012, 09:03 AM
Mr. Anderson, you are either intentionally being obtuse to try to cling to the threads of your credibility, which has taken a serious beating in this thread, or you are actually as ignorant as you sound. Neither is very flattering, but hopefully it is the former and not the latter.

As has been well established by others, Secret, Top Secret and Top Secret/SCI (Secure Compartmented Information) are standard US government clearances and are common knowledge. You can go on google right now and look them up. Go to google and type TS/SCI and see what pops up. Here, I will make it easy for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_clearance The fact you have never heard of them and that you supposedly scared up a source "authorized to do security clearance checks" that has never heard of a Top Secret clearance and thinks that they are only in the movies is laughable.

I noticed that you failed to answer a simple question I asked previously, so maybe you can run this by your dealer or better yet, the guy who has never heard of a TS clearance and get back me with an answer.

1) Where on the Form 4473 do you list your government or military background (other than dishonorable discharge) that would prompt them search "other data bases"?

I will save you the time, it's not on the form.

I felt the information might be of use to the OP who, as he mentioned in a later post, did indeed have a military background and security clearance. Probably just coincidence.

Sarcasm noted. This is the only correct thing you've said so far, because, yes, it is just a coincidence as evidenced by the multiple responses by folks with previous or current military and government service that have stated that their NICS checks go through instantly. Apparently you have chosen to discount all of those responses.

I see from your webpage linked in your post that you are an author. I would hope you research information and vet your sources better when you are writing an article than you did when posting on TFL...

C0untZer0
March 12, 2012, 09:19 AM
Never heard of a "Top Secret" security clearance and doesn't think there is such a thing except in movies.

Oy vey :rolleyes:

In Illinois, the last NICs check I did took 10 seconds - I think Illinois law says they have to use the Illinois system unless the Federal system is down.

The time before that it took 10 seconds also.

Eppie
March 12, 2012, 09:21 AM
Guys,
you're digressing about military security clearances.

I believe some states have a "cooling off period" but I have no idea which ones.

Here in Texas, I've bought about a dozen guns in the last five of years and approval has always taken ten minutes or less. Even before I got my concealed handgun license it took only a few minutes.

C0untZer0
March 12, 2012, 10:21 AM
Outside of a dishonorable disharge, why would gun dealers or states get any access to or visibility into a members security clearance?

The military doesn't even want people to know which people have TS / TSSBI or anything like that, and it's really not relevant to purchasing firearms anyway.

I can see how some states might want to know that, but the DOD doesn't care about NICS checks and I doubt they're not going to open up military records so someone can do a verification check for gun purchase - that's my opinion anyway...

I know I'm digressing but even in the terrible terrible anti-gun state of Illinois THE ONLY STATE NOT TO HAVE SOME FORM OF CARRY - NICS checks take 10 seconds for me, so now I'm curious about how a clearance relates to a NICs check at all.

I don't think it does.

Only military thing I can see impacting it is a dishonorable discharge.

BGutzman
March 12, 2012, 10:24 AM
BGutzman, do you put your Social Security number on the 4473. It is optional, but without it you can count on NICS delays.

I always put in the SSN...

I dont know but if it happens again I may have to see if I can get one of those pin numbers your supposed to be able to get to help get the check done faster. Im not sure what I would need one for but it seems like the only solution...

KC Rob
March 12, 2012, 10:36 AM
Only military thing I can see impacting it is a dishonorable discharge.

Correct. That is the only question on the 4473 pertaining to prior military service and has nothing to do with having a security clearance.

Vermonter
March 12, 2012, 10:42 AM
I wander if this simply has to do with stste by state volume levels? In other words is there a correlation in time of purchase and what state the call is origionated in.

I ask because Vermont is a small state. There are probably fewer gun retailers in VT than in some cities. Therefore I am most likely in a shorter line at 10:30 am in VT than you are in say Orlando FL at 7 pm. Maybe this is all there is to it?

C0untZer0
March 12, 2012, 10:51 AM
^ I don't think so because in Illinois applications for FOID cards are very high, I've heard they are at record levels, and actual gun purchases are very high - also near record levels, and the check takes 10 seconds. Although technically in Illinois the FFLs are not using NICS they are suing Illinois FTIP, according to BATFE an Illinois FTIP included a NICS check.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/

They can only use NICS if FTIP is unavailable.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2008/05/052908-openletter-ffl-illinois-brady-law.html

Vermonter
March 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
Glad to hear IL is at least decent in regard to purchase. I wander if there are offical sources for this information?

Tom Servo
March 12, 2012, 12:05 PM
Outside of a dishonorable disharge, why would gun dealers or states get any access to or visibility into a members security clearance?
We don't. One of the most frequent questions I get is "why was I denied/delayed?"

The only true answer is "heck if I know." The NICS system deals in personal, private information, none of which is shared with a sales clerk on the phone. Any explanation offered by a gun dealer is speculation at best.

MikeRussell
March 12, 2012, 12:30 PM
Last few purchases I've made have taken under 2mins. Not sure what is up with your dealer, but I'd be upset if I had to wait more than a few minutes much less hours or days!

dogtown tom
March 12, 2012, 10:48 PM
stevelyn I have a security clearance from my military days which causes a delay while they go scare up a higher level NICS monkey to access my records. Usually cleared by the time I get done scratching out the 4473.
One has NOTHING to do with the other.

KC Rob
March 12, 2012, 10:52 PM
You are right dogtown, but stevelyn was just being facetious in his post, he knows that too.

BGutzman
March 13, 2012, 03:26 PM
I appreciate all the input.... hopefully no more delays in the future. :)

insaneranger
March 13, 2012, 03:40 PM
I've never had one take longer than 5 minutes. Since I got my HCP last year, I've bought 5 pistols and 2 long guns & they've all been approved in less than 1 minute.

GlockedNLoded32
March 13, 2012, 03:54 PM
in texas if you have a chl you pick the gun you want fill out the 4473 form and your out the door within ten min depending on how busy the store is

orthosophy
March 15, 2012, 01:55 AM
Yeah thats how it works here in Iowa, too.

My permit to carry is treated as a permit to buy. I do the paperwork, try to convince them i'm not an illegal alien or drug addict, and i'm out the door. In fact, last week I had to change my license because I bought a house. The very next day I was walking out the door with a gun I shouldn't have bought. Oops.

I'm not sure what the deal is, but I know from anecdotal experience (I get their emails) how many people share my name. I'm pretty sure at least one is shady.

Simmy952
March 15, 2012, 06:47 AM
Takes about 10 mins. I usually do not buy from big stores. Most of mine is done with a local FFL with a transfer of FTF. Walk in, fill in info and sign the form. FFL makes the call. Usually the chat session takes longer than the phone call. Have never had one delayed yet. Heard that some of the larger stores will hold some of the checks till the have a certain amount and then make the call or have been to one of the local big stores and there is just so many at the counter trying to make a purchase and they get a little backed up. I usually just laugh when I see what their prices are and see the sheeple standing there paying the price. They do have good sale prices on ammo now and then. I did have a friend whose NICS took 2 days to clear. He had the same name as a person in NC and he had to prove that he wasn't the other person.

HALL,AUSTIN
March 15, 2012, 06:57 AM
Mine have all taken roughly 5minutes.

Sparks1957
March 15, 2012, 07:14 AM
I've got one coming up tomorrow, I'll let you know.

dajowi
March 15, 2012, 08:07 AM
Maybe 5 minutes. I've seen longer though depending on how busy they are.

m&p45acp10+1
March 15, 2012, 02:28 PM
I have a CHL so that exempts me from the NICS check process. I still have to fill out the yellow form though.

For the people I have seen buying. It depends on how many people are in front of them in the buyers line. The phone call takes less than 10 minutes most times.

3kgt2nv
March 15, 2012, 04:23 PM
if you constantly get delayed you can apply for a upin (unique personal identification number) that will help resolve that.

alot of the delays are caused by peoples names being similar to someone who gets denied or to other factors.

just providing your ssn isnt necessarily the best way to be identified. the upin is a fbi background check that stays on file specifically for nics checks.

BGutzman
March 15, 2012, 07:49 PM
I have a CHL also but it never seems to matter the store runs the check just the same..

BGutzman
March 15, 2012, 07:50 PM
I appreciate the pin number idea...

KC Rob
March 15, 2012, 07:52 PM
I've got one coming up tomorrow, I'll let you know.

Whatcha gettin' Sparks?

dogtown tom
March 15, 2012, 08:28 PM
BGutzman I have a CHL also but it never seems to matter the store runs the check just the same..

Not all state firearm permits qualify as an exemption to FBI NICS.

Sparks1957
March 16, 2012, 04:48 AM
Whatcha gettin' Sparks?

Another Bersa, a Thunder 9UC this time. I am now an official Bersa fanboy

Sparks1957
March 16, 2012, 04:22 PM
Took less than 60 seconds to get a "proceed" after the information was given.

This Bersa is a beauty. Just cleaned it up and lubed it, it's ready for a test tomorrow

stevelyn
March 16, 2012, 11:23 PM
You are right dogtown, but stevelyn was just being facetious in his post, he knows that too.

I wasn't being facetious.

I have a squeeky clean background, I'm a cop about halfway through my career and a state certified police firearms instructor. I also have a .mil background working around things back in the day that required me to have a secret clearance.

Everytime I go through a dealer to buy a gun, there is a NICS delay where they have to go an find a "higher level examiner" to access my records. Why is that?

Look up PRP.

ScottRiqui
March 16, 2012, 11:28 PM
How do you reconcile your experience with those of us that also have a clean background, as well as a *current* Top Secret/SCI clearance, that have never received anything other than an instantaneous "proceed" from our NICS checks?

Or have I just gotten lucky that there's always been a "higher level examiner" within arm's reach when I've bought guns?

stevelyn
March 16, 2012, 11:38 PM
Couldn't tell ya. I do know that NICS is available for Alaska puchases up until 8pm AK time which is midnight on the east coast and could have to do with the number of personnel available verse anticipated requests after certain hours.

KC Rob
March 17, 2012, 09:07 AM
I wasn't being facetious.

Sorry Stevelyn, didn't mean to misrepresent you.

I have a squeeky clean background, I'm a cop about halfway through my career and a state certified police firearms instructor. I also have a .mil background working around things back in the day that required me to have a secret clearance.

Being a LEO does not mean you have a government security clearance and your military secret clearance is expired so what ever delay you are having has nothing to do with that. Like has been said, I have a TS and others have posted that they have TS/SCI's and have no delay. I have bought a lot of guns, especially recently, and I find it hard to believe that they have had a "higher level examiner" standing by to clear me instantly. Heck, my Dad spent 35 years working for a 3 letter government agency that shall not be named and still works for that same agency as a contractor and I have never seen him get anything but an instant "proceed" when he buys guns.

Look up PRP

Sorry, I don't know what that stands for. I googled it and got a lot of hits for "Platlet-Rich Plasma" but I don't think that is what you are talking about. :D

As I said in a previous post, I don't understand how the NICS checks work or all the criteria or circumstances that would cause a delay, but I do know holding a security clearance, or being in the military, in and of themselves, are not reasons to be delayed when purchasing a gun.

ScottRiqui
March 17, 2012, 09:39 AM
The more I think about it, the less idea I have regarding what goes into getting a "proceed", "delayed", or "denied" response.

Looking back at my last two handgun purchases, they were only six days apart. I'm not sure what difference that makes, but the second dealer said that he "would have to run the check differently". I also have a pending court date for a speeding ticket. It's not an outstanding warrant or anything like that - I just haven't paid the ticket yet, so the case was still open during both purchases. Regardless, the result in both cases was an instant "proceed", just like in the half-dozen purchases before those two.

At this point, I think I'm going to stop worrying about it and just be glad that whatever the criteria are, I don't seem to be getting flagged.

dogtown tom
March 17, 2012, 11:00 AM
stevelyn ...Everytime I go through a dealer to buy a gun, there is a NICS delay where they have to go an find a "higher level examiner" to access my records. Why is that?

ScottRiqui ..Or have I just gotten lucky that there's always been a "higher level examiner" within arm's reach when I've bought guns?
....I don't understand how the NICS checks work or all the criteria or circumstances

Scott, you are in Virginia.......your dealers do not contact the FBI NICS for background checks but a state "point of contact"...their procedures and methods may be entirely different.

When a dealer contacts FBI NICS, the initial call is answered by a Customer Service Representative at a NICS Call Center.
The CSR will ask for the dealers FFL# and then ask for the following information from the Form 4473:
Buyer Last name
First name
Middle name
Cadence (Jr, Sr, III or anything after the last name)
Place of Birth
Height
Weight
Gender
Birthdate
Social Security Number (optional)
Race
State of Residence
Country of citizenship
Type of firearm

The CSR will then review the results of the background check

Then they will give the dealer the NICS Transaction Number (NTN), followed by either:
"This transaction may Proceed" (and then they ask the dealer to confirm the status as a "proceed") The call is over, the dealer hands the gun to the customer.
or
"This transaction requires further review by a NICS Examiner" (and they will again ask the dealer to confirm "further review")

The CSR will then transfer the call to a NICS Examiner who is an FBI Legal Documents Examiner, and will compare data that resulted in multiple persons on the check or review records that may prohibit this sale. If the buyer was not a US citizen the NICS Examiner will contact INS to verify immigration status.

The NICS Examiner will often place the dealer on hold for a minute or two and then return with:
-"This transaction (giving the NTN #) is a Proceed". The dealer can then give the gun to the customer.
OR
-"This transaction is Delayed while NICS conducts additional research. The Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of this firearm on (gives date that is three business days beginning the next business day)." Often NICS will never contact the dealer to issue a staus change from Delayed to Proceed. It is possible for NICS to Deny a transaction AFTER the three day delay has expired, the dealer then records this onto the Form 4473.
OR
-"This transaction (giving the NTN #) is Denied". The dealer should then give the buyer the NTN # and a NICS Appeal brochure.

FBI NICS will not tell the dealer why the customer was delayed or denied, nor will they tell the customer over the phone. The customer can contact FBI NICS via email, fax or in writing to find out the reason for the denial....they have five days to respond with the reason, usually it is prohibiting factors in the persons records OR there are multiple people with the same or similiar names....and one of them is a prohibited person.

If the buyer chooses to appeal the NICS Denial, they would submit fingerprints and any documentation to the FBI. NICS appeals currently take 120-150 days from the date you submit your appeals documents.

James K
March 17, 2012, 12:01 PM
Like KC Rob, I had (I am now retired) about as high a security clearance as there is, and I never waited more than a few minutes for the OK to come through.

What it seems to involve is the name and other info. If you are unlucky enough to have the same name as that of Public Enemy # 2 7/8, it takes a while to double check to make sure you aren't him (or to make sure you are!).

I know a guy who was in that position and one time the dealer (who knew the man) read out the name and said, "No, it isn't the bad guy with the same name." The NICS guy laughed and approved the sale.

Jim

BGutzman
March 17, 2012, 01:48 PM
Apparently my Minnesota CHL isnt on the Brady bunch appoved list to bypass NICS... :mad:

KC Rob
March 17, 2012, 03:07 PM
Thanks for the detailed break down of the process Dogtown, that is good stuff.