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View Full Version : Ole Nasty....


Keg
March 5, 2012, 09:27 AM
This one came up trail first night to put camera up....I need to reset date....

Hansam
March 5, 2012, 09:33 AM
Time to git yer gun!

I know I would!

Keg
March 5, 2012, 12:50 PM
Hansam....The pigs are very nocturnal on this place....I am working on a way to hunt them....

rickyrick
March 5, 2012, 01:04 PM
Why, you have to stay up late to hunt pigs

thallub
March 5, 2012, 01:24 PM
Get that hog.

Keg
March 5, 2012, 01:33 PM
Rick..I picked up one of those green laser lights to mount to my M1A...I'm interested in seeing how it might work....There are slews of em on this place....Mostly black..some floppy eared.....

rickyrick
March 5, 2012, 01:39 PM
Cool, let us know how it works. I've been wondering about those.

I have a red spotlight that clips to my scope.

tahunua001
March 5, 2012, 01:45 PM
it's...BACON!!!!!!!!!

Keg
March 5, 2012, 01:52 PM
Well..I can see it now...20 rds of 7.62 from my SOCOM....Green light on the largest pig....The muzzle flash on this thing will probably light up 40 acres....:D

Hansam
March 5, 2012, 02:21 PM
If you decide you're outnumbered by the enemy and need support shoot me an email. I'll grab a buddy and come on down to give you a hand!

Keg
March 5, 2012, 02:30 PM
Wisconsin is a long way to shoot a pig.....

SurplusShooter
March 5, 2012, 02:35 PM
He looks to to have russian boar in him.

Keg
March 5, 2012, 02:57 PM
Surplus..I did'nt think he showed much eurasian influence....Many of the pigs on this place still have floppy ears and some curl in their tail..and tend to be thick all the way back....His forehead lays flatter also....They tend to put on more weight too....

rickyrick
March 5, 2012, 03:43 PM
They really don't have Russian in them they pretty much revert back to thier natural state.

I'll post a pic in a second

Ok this one is a young boar it exhibits traits some call Russian, I made up my own term and call them reverted, this one shows some different colors along with the red.

I know that I have posted this pig before, but it's the only one I have uploaded and I'm usually on my phone......it is a good example for topics that come up such as the .223 wound in his neck.


http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=76090&d=1323176653

Hansam
March 5, 2012, 04:13 PM
I'd drive to TX for some good hog hunting - and not the canned hunts either.

Anyway just stay up late and go shoot yourself some bacon and chops!

Keg
March 5, 2012, 04:23 PM
Rick..I agree about the reverting back to a natural state....But there are places where eurasian animals have been introduced in the US....Look at Tennessee....Some places here in TX also....but for the most part..yes ferals reverting back to..as U call..a natural state....

Keg
March 6, 2012, 08:55 AM
Rick..will feral hogs at some point..revert back into an animal that looks just like their Euopean/Asian cousins? If so..how long will it take? Question..actually for anyone....

hogdogs
March 6, 2012, 09:07 AM
I dunno about traits like color ever going back to the hues we see on pure russian/eurasian wild stocks...

But the physical structure ricky refers to are the ones needed to live feral or live barned...

Feral hogs need a long snout for deeper easier rooting and a taper that makes them able to slice thru the cover at full run.

They need ground clearance too. They need little fat so they get long legged and lean.


Barn yard swine develop to suit their needs too... Short snout and big wide head takes more space at the feed trough limiting competition.

Shorter legs and broad shoulders also make working the feed trough easier too.

But in the end the DNA will be a mix of the breeds in that feral hog... His offspring cannot ever "develop" russian DNA but with enuff crossing to a pure herd could water down the feral domestic DNA soon enuff.

These hogs are blends of any and/or all domestic breeds... Spanish little black hogs, bright red Durocs, belted Hampshire (bred for thin skin), pink Yorkshires and others are all in the mix so not likely they would acquire DNA they do not already possess.

Brent

Keg
March 6, 2012, 11:03 AM
This is a hog I shot on my river bottom place....There are many that look much like this....Some that don't tho....I was raised up being told that Russian boars were turned loose in the Trinity river bottom....Also I remember as a kid..seeing a place in the south of the county.. that someone had (russian boar)..(they looked like it to me)...They all escaped.....
Is this just a feral pig? Or is it a hybrid with a lot of Russian/Eurasian blood?
I have always thought the latter....

hogdogs
March 6, 2012, 11:14 AM
Looks mostly like a black spanish pig predominately... Over this way... they are called "Piney Woods Rooter" quite often...

Brent

Keg
March 6, 2012, 11:33 AM
Brent..Are u looking at the attatchment on my first post or last? Because if its the first..I agree....If its the last..I don't....

rickyrick
March 6, 2012, 12:38 PM
^^^^^^^^ here's KEG's picture^^^^^^^^^^\\



http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79482&d=1331049004

rickyrick
March 6, 2012, 12:52 PM
If you've ever seen one hide from you in the brush, its kinda cool how low they can make themselves, snout stretched out and all. You wouldn't think they could hide that good.

dieselbeef
March 6, 2012, 12:59 PM
pasture rutters..kill em all...feed the buzzards

Keg
March 6, 2012, 01:05 PM
Thanks Rick....lol....well..what u say?

rickyrick
March 6, 2012, 01:31 PM
Well, he is black has some red tips. Looking at his teeth and hoofs he has spent most of his life, if not all, in a soft soil area. Out further west their hoofs are worn more and most of the cutters broken from the rocky soil. Most of my pigs don't even have the crust.

That looks like many of the pigs I encounter, but I'm no expert on the domestic origins like Hogdogs is.

I call em black, red, brown, polky dotted, black with big white stripe and so on LOL....

The all red ones seem to me to be closest to what folks call Russian. The piglets of the all red ones are mean little bootyholes, to a point of being comical.

That completes my knowledge of pig lineage. LOL . There are far better experts on pig lineage than me on this forum.

Keg
March 6, 2012, 02:05 PM
They really don't have Russian in them they pretty much revert back to thier natural state.

Rick..will feral hogs at some point..revert back into an animal that looks just like their Euopean/Asian cousins? If so..how long will it take?

U said this..so I asked this.../\/\/\

BIG P
March 6, 2012, 03:26 PM
Time for some high speed LEAD POISON.:D

Thats what we call a piney wood rooter S.GA .

rickyrick
March 6, 2012, 03:29 PM
I'm making assumptions based on my own observance of wild pigs, I read that there is no real difference between European pigs and domestic. The traits were all bred into them.

I see them in all stages, it is my understanding that the appearance depends on how many generations they have been wild. I think hogdogs is more correct. You could have a near Russian population, then here comes a polky dotted sow and screws the whole mess up.

Keg
March 6, 2012, 04:24 PM
LOL..I think U and hogdogs are probably bout right....I am trying to learn more about these hogs....I think our riverbottom hogs have been more remote and seem to carry more euro-traits...while on the other end of the county..there seems to be anything and everything....

hogdogs
March 7, 2012, 08:58 AM
When you look at Eurasian hogs in their own region, you will see what I call a "more tannish hue" overall. Or you will see a "Bluish" hue overall.

Tipped hairs can be a sign of out crossing but to what??? A red Duroc bred to a black female? A couple generations later of mostly black genes and the black can take back over.

With Eurasian crosses you have to remember that even if the parent was a pure russian, these piglets will be watering down the russian genes if not limited to future breeding with pure russian bloodlines.

So with the very limited population of pure russian DNA donors... and the nearly unlimited number of pigs with anything less than 50% russian genes... You won't get a hog that could pass scientific scrutiny as a "pure eurasian" in our lifetimes if ever.

There are some "indicators" of possible russian bloodlines bred into the feral stock. One is a sneaky little "hybrid tooth"...

http://www.hunting-in-texas.com/learnhogs.htm

Scroll down to the "how old is that pig" to see the tooth.

I have doped up, sewn up, and buried up dogs wrecked by pigs of many colors and sizes... Tooth size be danged, the dog wrecker I worry about is what I call a "teenagger thug punk" sort... Any color but these spanish pigs live up to this real well, about 140-170 pounds not terribly old (hence the teenager), 3/4-1 1/2" teeth... These gems are athletic and know it... they are badazz and they know it and they will turn and fight a dog at the drop of a hat... Their agility and tenacity and downright winning intentions make them badder to me than a 400 pound old warrior hog... He can whoop 'em too but usually he wants to slash the swords and run if possible.

Breed matters naught to me... In fact, if you could keep the eurasian out of the mix, your butchering duty could be easier and tablefare better... We bred these domestic lines for various reason and tuff meat under a thick hide ain't them...

Brent

Wyoredman
March 7, 2012, 10:36 AM
JEALOUS! There are not any pigs around here, and as far as I know, they are not much of a problem in any neighboring states. I know it is somewhat self centered, knowing how damaging the hog can be, but I sure wish I had the opportunity to hunt some hog!:D

Keg
March 7, 2012, 11:21 AM
hogdogs...the hogs that come off my riverbottom place have that hybrid tooth....I will try to post a pic....I even took a pig with that tooth of the place where the black hog pic came from....He had a different look about him and I bleached his skull.....What I understand the boars in europe and asia have some difference in color..appearance..depends on what region....Just as or deer are smaller..the closer U get to the tropics and larger to the north....same with asian boar....

hogdogs
March 7, 2012, 11:35 AM
Most of ours have the hybrid tooth too. But for the most part ours are either heavy black old spanish blood or any ratio of other european/american domestic lines.

I requested permission to use a fellow hog dogger's pics from louisiana where he seems to have several "pockets" of hogs with HEAVY eurasian traits... When he agrees, I will post to show what I feel is the difference in just a feral domestic and a eurasian predominately...

Brent

BigMikey76
March 7, 2012, 12:37 PM
I don't wish we had hog problems like that up here in NE, but I do wish I had the opportunity to hunt them like you guys do down there... Kind of a double edged sword, I guess. Frankly, I wouldn't care whether they were domestic, eurasian, spanish, or any other stock, just as long as they fit in my smoker:D

hogdogs
March 7, 2012, 01:15 PM
These are what I feel exhibit euro traits...

Brent

hogdogs
March 7, 2012, 01:16 PM
one more...

brent

rickyrick
March 7, 2012, 01:22 PM
I've had some like those except I haven't seen any with such pronounced hackles or whatever they are called on pigs.

I suspect that Florida has some of the oldest lines in the pigs there.

rickyrick
March 7, 2012, 01:24 PM
I didn't ask where they were taken I assume Fla or the deep south.

hogdogs
March 7, 2012, 01:27 PM
Those are all Louisiana hogs... The majority of russian influenced populations are directly related to the "Gentlemen's" hunt clubs of the late 1800's and early 1900's when tycoons were all the rage...

Our Fla population began the day a spanish explorer first unloaded his boat on our beaches...:D

Florida would have more russian influenced hogs if AC were already common when the tycoons were playin'...

Brent

rickyrick
March 7, 2012, 01:40 PM
Was that last one a fair bit taller on the hoof than your average feral pig?

I remember seeing some like that a Long time ago in Germany. I was taken aback over how tall they were.

Double Naught Spy
March 7, 2012, 05:46 PM
There are some "indicators" of possible russian bloodlines bred into the feral stock. One is a sneaky little "hybrid tooth"...

http://www.hunting-in-texas.com/learnhogs.htm

Scroll down to the "how old is that pig" to see the tooth.

Oh please, hogdogs, not this garbage again. What you are talking about is in no way an indicator of possible Russian blood lines. We went through this in 2009 and it is no more true now than it was then. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348544&highlight=euro+tooth

You brought it up in that thread and I provided you with considerable information on why the presence or absence of the tooth may occur in pigs and it isn't because of being "Russian." It is because the tooth is vestigial, being lost over time genetically.

I seem to recall challenging you to prove that the tooth was an indicator of bloodline and nothing came from that. If you can prove it, it would be a real feather in your cap given it is a trait that nobody in the wildlife, biology, or veternary sciences is aware of and there are a considerable number of publications on domestic, wild and feral hogs.

By the way, have you noticed that the only references to the hybrid tooth all refer back to the same singluar source? What hog expert studied these hogs and made this unique determination? Do you know? Some online sources refer to your link, but your link and others go refence Texasboars.com and that article is found here ... http://www.texasboars.com/articles/aging.html

You get the same pictures and same text referencing the hybrid tooth as being diagnostic and neither source provides any justification as to how the author learned of this purported trait. It is simply stated as if it is fact from an unnamed source.

The claim is...
To begin there is one tooth that can distinguish something about a hog. The tooth in the picture to the left is not used in the aging process. Not all hogs will have this tooth. Only Hybrid Wild Boar will have this tooth. Hybrid is a cross breed between domestic hogs and the Eurasian Hog (Russian Boar). Domestic hogs or domestic feral hogs will not have this tooth.

Okay, it won't be present in domestic hog skulls. That is stated as a fact, right? So when you find hogs with this trait, you believe it proves that the hog is "Russian" or "Russian hybrid," right?

Here are domestic hog skulls with the tooth.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.azdrybones.com/images/Domestic-Pig.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.azdrybones.com/artiodactyls.htm&h=334&w=500&sz=13&tbnid=oeos7b8iQWZyQM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&zoom=1&docid=5UKJDAsVVakz8M&sa=X&ei=4dlXT9vhHau_2QWk_7T4Dg&ved=0CFUQ9QEwBA&dur=4446
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4TSNA_enUS361US436&biw=1103&bih=655&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=w9tV5QyaMdmqfM:&imgrefurl=http://svpow.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/things-to-make-and-do-part-5-anaglyphs-red-and-cyan-3d-images/&docid=PWvigEls-UFuxM&imgurl=http://svpow.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/pig-skull-3d.jpeg&w=1147&h=1200&ei=P9pXT_iDLOXy2QXvwYDoDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=304&vpy=291&dur=250&hovh=230&hovw=219&tx=138&ty=150&sig=108897770181757983884&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4TSNA_enUS361US436&biw=1103&bih=655&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=AvFOZXp3cyBEwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/pigdom.htm&docid=68UFvplxAbR3vM&imgurl=http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/pigdom_lat.jpg&w=500&h=421&ei=P9pXT_iDLOXy2QXvwYDoDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=129&vpy=146&dur=1302&hovh=206&hovw=245&tx=133&ty=123&sig=108897770181757983884&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=186&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4TSNA_enUS361US436&biw=1103&bih=655&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=a2gGQ1ZEyj7wUM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pig-Skull-Domestic-Taxidermy-bones-/160609337621&docid=qqGviAiAH-sTQM&imgurl=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/ludale1/pigpic01.jpg&w=640&h=480&ei=P9pXT_iDLOXy2QXvwYDoDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=695&vpy=206&dur=947&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=156&ty=115&sig=108897770181757983884&page=2&tbnh=142&tbnw=193&start=15&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:15
http://www.etsy.com/listing/81789603/domestic-pig-sus-scrofa-domestica
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/pregastric/pigpage.html

So how is it that all these domestic hogs have this tooth? The article says they won't have them. Well the article is WRONG. Texasboars is WRONG.

Now above I referred to the condition of the so-called "hybrid tooth" as being vestigial. Vestigial means it is an anatomical structure that no longer retains its original form or function and often is being lost evolutionarily over time. However, the actual absence of this tooth (or other dental structure) is called oligodontia. Here is a neat little abstract for an article discussing this very issue. You can order the whole article, but the abstract already tells us that the notion of the "hybrid tooth" as diagnostic is bogus.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p335h22227u2023m/
Oligodonty (either bilateral or unilateral) was the most common anomaly, occurring in 9 wild (23.1% of the sample) and 15 (50%) domestic pigs. In 22 of the 24 individuals exhibiting oligodonty, this anomaly involved the lower first premolar (P1). Given the placement of P1, oligodonty may reflect a trend toward reduction of the dental arcade from the primitive eutherian number.

The tooth that you call a "hybrid tooth" is the lower adult P1 (first premolar).

I am afraid, sir, that you have succombed to a 'fact' that is nothing more than an internet myth that appears to have its origins on the Texasboars website for which there is no justification. The notion that this tooth reflects anything at all about bloodline or domesticity, being feral, being wild, or some hybrid thereof is without any merit and should not be used as an indicator of being of Russian, wild Eurasian, or hybrid feral-Russian/wild Eurasian ancestry. Its presence only means that the hog isn't suffering from oligodontia of that tooth.

rickyrick
March 7, 2012, 05:59 PM
DNS,

What's your take on Keg's pictures and questions?

hogdogs
March 7, 2012, 06:09 PM
I didn't claim it refers to anything other than being called the "hybrid tooth" and "possible indicator..." No it really don't look I purported it to be anything more than I refer in this thread...

Brent

Keg
March 7, 2012, 08:07 PM
the pics..

Keg
March 7, 2012, 08:11 PM
hogdogs..I see hogs with a mane time to time..dark legs too..with a reddish body....

Double Naught Spy
March 8, 2012, 04:18 AM
I didn't claim it refers to anything other than being called the "hybrid tooth" and "possible indicator..." No it really don't look I purported it to be anything more than I refer in this thread...

Well, when you identify it as a hybrid tooth as you did, you are identifying it as a hybrid trait. The thing is, it isn't a possible indicator hog type and it isn't hybrid.
Okay, but it isn't even that.

What's your take on Keg's pictures and questions?

That's a very nice pig and I am digging the excellent skeletonization result of the skull and mandible.

The questions...
Is this just a feral pig? Or is it a hybrid with a lot of Russian/Eurasian blood?
I have always thought the latter....

I am continually amazed at folks' proclamations of spotting, catching, and/or killing of hogs that the hogs have some "Russian DNA" or "Russian genes" or "Russian traits" in them. They will usually pick out one or two morphological traits from the animal that match their criteria for what is a Russian hog. Of course, everyone wants to kill Russian hogs as the vast majority of us in the US grew up with or lived throught the Cold War where Russians were the enemy. Not only are Russian hogs the enemy, but are supposed to be meaner and more aggressive and sometimes people will proclaim a hog to have Russian ancestry based just on it being aggressive. When was the last time you can remember someody being quick to point out that the hog they shot had some Norwegian Landrace in it?

What a lot of folks do not understand is that the vast majority of hogs brought into the US have "Russian" ancestry. That is because the domestic pigs of Europe and Asia are domesticated from the Russian/Eurasian wild boars.

This article goes into a log of detail on the difficulties in properly identifying a hog based or morphological and behavioral characteristics. Many of the traits commonly known about Russian/Eurasian, feral, and hybrid distinctions has turned out to be flat our wrong in some cases and often variable in others. It is a neat article, but I have to question where it was that they obtained their pure feral hog population...as if somebody high fenced a few thousand acres and stocked it with domestic hogs and came back 20 years later to find all the original domestic hogs were long dead, but their several generations of offspring turned into pure feral hogs. I don't see that happening or how the researchers would have known if their pure ferals had been contaminated with more domestic or with Russian/Eurasion lines.
http://agrilife.org/texnatwildlife/feral-hogs/distinguishing-feral-hogs-from-introduced-wild-boar/

While the above article indicates skull measurements to be pretty good for diagnostic/identification purposes, this article says the method has problems. Note that the most recent citation in the above article dates back to 1992.
http://www.secem.es/GALEMYS/PDF%20de%20Galemys/16%20(NE).%20PDF/001%20%20Genov%209-23_.pdf

Okay, to confound things even further about Keg's hog, hogdogs noted that it looked like a Spanish Black and has noted hogs in his area have Spanish Black blood. What is interesting to note it that Spanish Black (Iberian Black) hogs are thought to be a hybrid of the introduced Mediterranean breed that bred with Eurasian wild boars, but only Keg thought it looked like it has Russian traits. http://bigpictureagriculture.blogspot.com/2011/03/twelve-heritage-pig-breeds.html

So given its history, Keg's possible Spanish Black or Iberian Black hog would be domesticated and Eurasian wild boar hybrid feral hog. How is that for covering all the bases?

Just as or deer are smaller..the closer U get to the tropics and larger to the north....same with asian boar....
And that difference is called clinal size variation.

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 08:54 AM
Why are these pigs more prevalent in the south, when the northern US more closely mimics their natural environment? They have an obvious aversion to heat.

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 09:01 AM
As a joke when I kill a pig, when accompanied by others, I proclaim it to be a Russian, even if its a fuzzy pokie dotted one. They get all excited and jazzed up, then they get the "just kidding"....and that crushes their soul...LOL

hogdogs
March 8, 2012, 09:17 AM
I am not one who sees a trait on any ol' feral hog and sees a "russian"...

I have seen far too many 400+ pound black hogs that are just BIG HUGE BLACK HOGS... No mane... No shoulders that narrow above the axis point to to be a "blade-esque" shape rising above the top of the level hog head...

Slightly tipped hairs say "feral domestic cross"... but half the length of hair being a different color is very much common in eurasian swine.

As for size... hogs will grow... We have pockets of feral domestics that easily hold many large 250-350 pound brood animals... Other pockets seem to top out around 200-250 with a 300 being an anomaly...

Fighters??? Some of the more "docile" catches I have had dogs in were the ones seeming more russian than others... and I am still waiting for a pig with more fight than those young 150# black pigs I mention...

Brent

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 09:27 AM
That euro4 pig looks very athletic, very impressive definitely no fat American feral pig.

Keg
March 8, 2012, 01:37 PM
Wild Boar Facts: Wild Boar Skin and Coat
59. The skin of wild boar is very thick, with pads of subcutaneuos adipose tissue but very little blood supply. It is in effect an armour virtually rendering the boar immune to insect or viper bites (unless attacked in more vulnerable points), or punctures from spiney plants within the woods in which it lives.

60. The boar is nearly completely covered (with the exception of parts of the head and the lower parts of the legs) with rigid bristles.

61. These bristles, mixed with a finer and softer fur undercoat, enable the animal to thermally isolate its body from external temperatures.

62. On the forehead and shoulders the boars mantle forms a type of mane, more evident on some sub-species than others.

63. When the animal is irritated or frightened the mane becomes straightened, rendering the appearance of the boar larger and more solid than reality.

64. The boars winter coat is thick ("folto") and dark in colour.

65. During the spring months the majority of the undercoat and bristles are shed and the boar takes on a lighter colour.

66. The general colour of a boars coat varies according to population and region. The colour ranges from tawny-brown to grey-black.

67. Whitish, although not albino, boar have been known to occur in central Asia. In western Russia ther are many red boar, and in Manchuria there are many examples of nearly black boar.

68. Very rarely (about three boar in every 100 years) adult boars with large and dark mantles are recorded. Such boar are mutations from the more recent crossing of boar with domestic pigs.

Just something I found on boar in Europe/Asia.....

Keg
March 8, 2012, 01:46 PM
Pure European Hogs

As of 2008, RBL entered the pure European hog business. This new line of animals comes from Brutal Boar Creactions owned by Cody Weiser of Hallettsville, Texas. His stock is believed to be the best bloodline in the U.S.

We will have young stocker pigs for sale, as well as trophy boars when available. This bloodline is known for large tusks and the ability to acheive tremendous size. These monsters will make great wall mounts to add to your collection. They will test the skills of even the best boar hunters.

Every ranch has wild hogs, but not many have the pure European giants that we can provide. Let your ranch be one of the first to offer world class boars to its hunters.

This boar is of European ancestry....(notice..no mane)

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 02:16 PM
This is gonna take some research as it seems little true facts exist on the internet. Many accounts maybe true but its pretty watered down for hunting interests.


The pig in hogdogs pic that I referenced is the closest thing to the pigs I seen wild in German forests. Weather or not Russian pigs look the same I have no clue, never seen any in their homeland.

Keg
March 8, 2012, 02:23 PM
Rick..It's really not hard to find pics from Europe and Asia......They don't all look alike....Some have manes..some don't....different colors and coats....different coats.....I even found that there are different sub-species....I used to just kill pigs..(I have been more into deer management)..but look at whitetail in Florida..Texas..Canada....They look a little different.....

Used to..a pig was a pig....I wish I had taken pics and kept them yrs ago....
Do striped baby pigs mean anything?

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 02:32 PM
What did the pigs look like before man started poking around with them. Most dogs were similar till we started selective breeding.

As with what your exerpt says "believed" to be purest bloodline.

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 02:41 PM
You can also deduce that the only true Russian, or close to true Russian, can be maintained im north America on closely managed game farms.

BigMikey76
March 8, 2012, 02:49 PM
We will have young stocker pigs for sale, as well as trophy boars when available.
I don't get it... why would selling hogs to stock your property for hunting make any sense in a state that is, by all accounts I have seen, over run with swine already :confused:

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 02:58 PM
Because big city lawyers will lay down fat cash to kill the legendary wild boar.

I hate when I see those ads.

New "high fence" places pop up every week it seems.

BigMikey76
March 8, 2012, 04:10 PM
Because big city lawyers will lay down fat cash to kill the legendary wild boar.
Seems to me there ought to be a law against bringing in more of an animal that is already a nuiscance... wouldn't it probably be cheaper for them to round up some of the local feral beasties and let the tourists shoot them? I doubt the "big city lawyers" would even know the difference...

Keg
March 8, 2012, 04:17 PM
Mickey..like Rick indicated....They will probably go to some high fence place....They won't just be turned loose.....

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 04:18 PM
I've seen ads for hunting ranches wanting to buy feral hogs

Keg
March 8, 2012, 04:22 PM
Rick..I want to be educated on these hogs....We're not gonna get rid of em....I hope U don't get mad if I question U..or hogdogs..and even DNS...lol

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 04:22 PM
I'll look it up but I don't think that they can be released unless its a hunting preserve

Keg
March 8, 2012, 04:24 PM
I know 2 places in this county that do.....I think about 300-600 acres....

BigMikey76
March 8, 2012, 04:26 PM
I normally stay out of these threads, since I don't have to deal with the hog problems directly up here in Nebraska. I may be moving to Texas for work, though, so my interest is increased...

Keg
March 8, 2012, 04:29 PM
Let me know where and I might find info on hunting for ya....

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 04:29 PM
Here's an article, I'll find more.

http://agrilife.org/today/2011/03/17/trapping-transporting-feral-hogs/

Bigmikey, this is one of the better pig threads LOL

hogdogs
March 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
I have no idea where the red with horizontal tiger stripes comes from...

Seems it is, for the most part, very prevalent in all the feral populations where I hunted or follow the pursuits of others in many locations. I see mainly red with stripes or black piglets... Sometimes with the hampshire type belts. I've never seen a single pie bald (polky dotts:D) piglet... I have seen many captured red stripes raised and never noticed their transformation. I have never raised a "weiner" feral myself.

Brent

Keg
March 8, 2012, 09:08 PM
Most of our piglets look like this....

Keg
March 8, 2012, 09:44 PM
hogdogs..A polky dot piglet....Pigman posted this on FB....

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 09:57 PM
I run accross a few striped piglets, but mostly red and black. I have no idea where polky dotted pigs come from cause they are always adult. I have some pictures of polky dotted ones too if I get near the computer long enough to upload.

I've caught several sows that have piglets in tow from two age groups, with the older ones being a little less than half grown. Not sure if they are an earlier litter or just some pigs hanging out with the sow and followed into the trap.

rickyrick
March 9, 2012, 06:03 AM
Oops, I guess you posted that while I was typing the other.

Polky dots are easy to spot, no pun, LOL, in the night. Easy to identify. My favorite ones to find actually. Last year I had the biggest pig I ever saw wild ....I couldn't get it. Polky dot of course. I named it Osama pigladen. Never got her.

BigMikey76
March 9, 2012, 08:34 AM
Thanks, Keg. It would be in Ft. Worth, if it pans out. Not sure where the critters hang out in Texas yet... but I'm starting to do some research.

hogdogs
March 9, 2012, 09:57 AM
keg, Those red stripes are very typical of feral offspring... I know our barn operation which was in the business of making "feeder pigs" (sold at -30#), we never had a striped red piggy... We had pink yorkshire and belted hamps with a few black pigs and a couple with heavy duroc influence red sows... Our boar was nothin special... Maxed out at about, iirc, 240#... We tried, at minimum, to have a p-up and single axle trailer load per month to auction.

This was in the thumb of Mi. in about 1982... We bought 3 smaller gilts/sows in auction to fill the spot opened by the death of a 350# super brood sow... She got sick and the herd owner couldn't have so much of his "eggs" in one basket.

These 3 sows were all spotted up which was not uncommon in the domestic swine scene... Specially for non-discerning small time feeder pig operations such as ours...

Now here is where this went south...
Auctioneer says "Here we have a lot of 3 fine *Texas* young gals..." Well we got them bought right... They were "spirited" from the moment we went to load them in our now empty trailer...

We got all 3 bred at first heat and 2 of 3 ate the entire litter within an hour or 2 of birth... BAD SIGN RIGHT THERE!!! The 3rd chomped a couple but did not eat 'em... So we grabbed the rest and put them on a pink sow who lost several to freeze.

We decided the whole batch were "sour sows" and just bad motherly brood sows so we got ready to auction them off but fairly as "butcher" pigs so as not to spread the losses to our fellow farmers...

Since we lost 25 pigs to their poor mothering, we loaded the truck with pigs and put these 3 very ornery sows in the trailer...

We arrived at the auction to find the top "half door" of the trailer ajar... NO SOWS!!!

Well we put our "lot" of piggys in a pen and balled the jack back tracking...

We found our 3 sows about 5 miles from our barn... Seems one managed to jump up and bust the top door open and all 3 were out in a hundred feet stretch in front of a fellow farmer's house... He said 2 were dead instantly and one needed shot and he slid them off on the shoulder knowing we would be lookin'...

To this day I am more than 50% sure we bought feral trapped swine that was unscrupulously entered into the ag scene in Mi. cuz we wouldn't suspect it up there...

This was just a couple years before the pork market collapse that, IMHO, caused the latest rash of domestic swine entering the feral world...

The last auction I attended saw pork pigs bringing only$.08#.... YES... after investing 90 days of husbandry and feed into a pig it brought EIGHT CENTS PER POUND!!! Many farmers cut their losses and cut the herds loose... as well as not torturing them with dwindling feed rations, I might add...

Brent

hogdogs
March 9, 2012, 10:07 AM
The other thing about these 3 suspect sows... they were LEANER than any barn swine this size we had seen but not "poor" lookin' at all...

And they were "leggy" as all get out... Narrow head and long snout... we had never owned such unusual lookin' pigs...

I never put 2 and 2 together until well into my time trappin' and doggin' feral swine problems...

I had 3 young boars in one trap one day and they were "polky dot" pie balds I seen as being "JUST LIKE THEM DANG TEXAS GILTS OFFSPRING WOULD LOOK!!!"...

Brent

dieselbeef
March 9, 2012, 10:24 AM
hey brent..my hog problem just went away..same as it came....thnaks fer yer help man

rickyrick
March 9, 2012, 01:11 PM
Rick..I want to be educated on these hogs....We're not gonna get rid of em....I hope U don't get mad if I question U..or hogdogs..and even DNS...lol


No problem, we all learning. Most of my claims are based on observation some hearsay and so forth. I'll readily admit it LOL.


I think this thread is actually gettin somewhere.

I gotta say "polky dotted pig" before I get back to work LOL

Keg
March 9, 2012, 01:39 PM
Rick..I think I'm gonna start another thread..where I will post some old hog pics....

Thanks Art..for letting this one run..even tho we chased hogs all over the back 40....lol

Keg
March 9, 2012, 02:49 PM
http://agrilife.org/texnatwildlife/feral-hogs/distinguishing-feral-hogs-from-introduced-wild-boar/

An interesting read.....this was posted by DNS earlier....

Double Naught Spy
March 9, 2012, 06:09 PM
An interesting read.....this was posted by DNS earlier...

Yeah, I wish it was more up to date, but I am not finding anything that shows any advances in distinguishing the various classifications with any assuredness based on morphology. It is what, 20 years old based on the latest citations in it. A lot has happened in the last 20 years.

rickyrick
March 9, 2012, 07:47 PM
I think that since the article has been written that distinguishing pigs origins IS probably more difficult, with pockets of pigs leaning little closer to the barnyard varieties.

As populations revert closer to there euroasian cousins, more barnyard escapees will get in the mix. As I am sure that a few imported sport hunting boars will get in the mix from time to time.

At one point some type of hybrid will become what's recognized as the "american wild pig"

My thumbs is tired......

I'll leave with: "POLKY DOTTED PIG"

rickyrick
March 9, 2012, 11:13 PM
Here's a federal map
http://128.192.20.53/nfsms/

Keg
March 9, 2012, 11:53 PM
I wish it showed Mexico or Canada....Says USA only....

mdd
March 11, 2012, 04:29 PM
I'd love to come hunt hogs. Could probably round up some night vision gear to bring along.

Double Naught Spy
March 11, 2012, 04:59 PM
Here's a federal map
http://128.192.20.53/nfsms/

While it says it is updated monthly, the map is out of date and incomplete. I see where I have been out in west Texas multiple times now shows no hogs, but we hunt them there. The bizarre stopping of pigs at state lines indicates a lack of data as pigs don't follow state lines. Compare New Mexico with the county distribution map here... http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.14/invasion-of-the-feral-pigs/new-mexico-feral-swine-distribution and so the fed map is missing a lot of NM data.

The same goes for Oklahoma http://www.noble.org/ag/wildlife/feralhogs/status.html

Texas http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/nuisance/feral_hogs/

rickyrick
March 11, 2012, 06:33 PM
I think some of it just assumes river bottoms without data. It also assumes the caprock as their limit, which may be plausible.

The lack of accurate data is frustrating.

Keg
March 11, 2012, 08:33 PM
While it says it is updated monthly, the map is out of date and incomplete. I see where I have been out in west Texas multiple times now shows no hogs, but we hunt them there. The bizarre stopping of pigs at state lines indicates a lack of data as pigs don't follow state lines.

Yeah..fed map is way off on Okyhoma....Texas is pretty much covered...

It also assumes the caprock as their limit, which may be plausible.


Rick..why U say that?

Keg
March 23, 2012, 10:29 AM
Lil nasty..I guess...LOL