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View Full Version : I Need An Answer To Why Is The Mosin Nagant Is So Popular ?


BPowderkeg
February 25, 2012, 10:01 AM
Mosin Nagant
http://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/30.jpg

What is so fascinating about this rifle ? seems every gun forum i visit has Q's about this rifle. personally i do NOT like foreign military guns...., with one exception. i would love to own a Lugar, i had a chance to buy an UNFIRED 9mm American Eagle Lugar for $800.00.., i screwed up and passed it up.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/images/943700fad32510577750860a173d5869.jpg

does anyone here own a Lugar ? how would you rate it against any other 9mm pistol ?

Skadoosh
February 25, 2012, 10:09 AM
The Mosin Nagant is cheap and still plentiful.

okiewita40
February 25, 2012, 10:11 AM
The thing with a M/N is they are cheap and powerful. Can be a lot of fun if you want to tinker too. As a plus the surplus ammo is cheap also. I have seen a few video's of guys shooting the M/N out to 800 yards. YMMV

emcon5
February 25, 2012, 11:14 AM
They are cheap, and artifacts of the most historicly significant time period in recent history. And you can get a 880 round case of ammo for $140. (http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplus/880-rounds-762x54r-russian-mid-70s-production-surplus-ammo-wood-crate)

tobnpr
February 25, 2012, 11:19 AM
For me, it was the perfect choice to be able to have a fun project off a cheap, and quite accurate action that is also capable of long-range performance.
This rifle was fun to build- and yes, because I did the work myself, I have less "in it" than a comparable Savage or (fill in the blank).

Would the factory rifle be a bit more accurate? Yes...but mine is still capable of sub-minute accuracy with match grade handloads.

Others like to collect them because of the wide variations in history/markings. They are quite fascinating to collectors, but I do feel that the values of some have been overdone recently.

Overall, they're a fun rifle to shoot, the round is comparable to the 30.06 both in terms of power and accuracy. If you hunt, it will take any game on the continent. Where else are you gonna find that for under $100?

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/tobnpr/IMAG0583.jpg

Father Time
February 25, 2012, 11:38 AM
The Mosin is popular because its cheap to buy and shoot and tough as nails.

And they have lots of different variations so if your into collecting they are good for that as well.

does anyone here own a Lugar ? how would you rate it against any other 9mm pistol ?

The Luger (spelled with an E not an A btw) is a good pistol but its not as reliable or durable as modern 9mm handguns. Its got lots of parts and is kind complicated. But they are fun to shoot and the do have a certain visual appeal.

BigMikey76
February 25, 2012, 11:48 AM
Cheap is the key word. They are proven rifles, and make either a good historical piece or a good base for building without spending an arm and a leg. Of course the build can add up if you start going crazy with it, but it doesn't have to, which makes the MN a good choice for a fairly wide variety of people.

tobnpr - nice looking rifle. What kind of stock is that?

RC20
February 25, 2012, 11:51 AM
It seems the only reason you posted was to express you dislike of something that you have no interest in (and then make and exception so you can grouse about how you failed to get a foreign gun that you have decided is an exception to your distain.)

And that contributes to the forum how?

the rifleer
February 25, 2012, 11:56 AM
Don't buy one, it leave more for people that actually want one. you can buy a high powered rifle that shoots decently and 440 rounds of ammo all for less than $200 dollars. There is no deal anywhere else come comes close to that.

rickyrick
February 25, 2012, 12:30 PM
1. Cheap.
2. Powerful
3. Most are in good condition.
4. Fun.

kraigwy
February 25, 2012, 12:33 PM
It's cheap, its a piece of history, farily accurate (once you learn how to shoot it).

It allows anyone, regardless of income to shoot competition and be competitive.

Competition being the CMP GSM Vintage Military Matches.

I ran a CMP GSM match last spring, the guy who won just bought the Mosin and some surplus ammo the night before. First shots he fired out of his new Mosin was the sighters for the match.

KenLondregan
February 25, 2012, 12:49 PM
It’s currently $109 on budgun.com. For the price it’s hard to find a better rifle. Plus, these rifles are a piece of history. The only drawback I have noticed is that every listing online describes the rifles as being covered in cosmoline (a rust preventative applied before storage). I have never dealt with cosmoline before but it doesn’t sound like fun to remove. That is the only thing holding me back from getting one.

kraigwy
February 25, 2012, 02:02 PM
I have never dealt with cosmoline before but it doesn’t sound like fun to remove. That is the only thing holding me back from getting one.

I've bought a lot of surplus rifles, bayonets 'n such, covered in cosmoline. I found kerosene is the best and easiest to remove that gunk, soak it, brush and wipe it away.

I certainly wouldn't let that stop me from buying a rifle.

publius
February 25, 2012, 03:07 PM
Cheap and I'm not sure running over it with a tank would ruin it.:D

Irish B
February 25, 2012, 03:41 PM
Cheap, powerful, and virtually indestructible. Cheap to mod too.

TX Hunter
February 25, 2012, 03:46 PM
I think everyone answered it, but they are alot of fun, and such a Rugged Rifle, great for hunting, very powerfull and so far I have not heard about anyone having trouble with them other than the ocasional sticky bolt, or shooting high. I like them in their original form, but have seen some really cool looking sporterized ones. This rifle works, as a matter of fact its been encountered on the battle fields of Afganastan and Irac in modern day combat.

Scorch
February 26, 2012, 04:13 AM
They're cheap, rugged, inexpensive to own and operate, fire cheap ammo, fairly powerful, and have the "other side" aura about them, whether you are referring to WW1, WW2, or the Cold War and its associated skirmishes (like the 1963-1975 Southeast Asia War Games).

Dr. Strangelove
February 26, 2012, 06:33 AM
Looks like you got your Mosin Nagant answers.

The Luger is a great pistol, to me one of the most beautiful ever designed. The German models are very reliable with the FMJ German Army standard ammunition they were designed to shoot, but modern ammo can cause problems.

The toggle design is very finicky as far as being clean and doesn't like mud, dirt, etc. It's a very heavy pistol for it's size and has a small magazine capacity.

I love 'em, but most any modern 9mm, even the venerable Browning Hi Power will eat it's lunch on anything except collector value.

Kreyzhorse
February 26, 2012, 07:05 AM
They are cheap and in great condition. Why wouldn't they be popular?

Tikirocker
February 26, 2012, 08:08 AM
There's no teaching someone to get it ... you either get it or you don't. Seems this post would have been better served discussing what you do like ... Lugers.

Tiki.

spyderdude
February 26, 2012, 08:55 AM
I think the Mosin Nagant is ugly as sin but for 100 dollars you get a rifle that fires a hard hitting round capable of reaching out to very long distances. I own a 91/30 and if I ever run out of ammo it'll make a superior club and spear with the bayonet attached!

Sarge
February 26, 2012, 09:12 AM
I grew up in the golden age of milsurp rifles, when wonderful old Mausers and '03s and SMLE's were abundant. So this recent obsession with one of that family's ugly sisters is perplexing to me as well.

You have to understand that today's shooter is far more media-driven... one good movie like Enemy at the Gates is all it takes for a gun to take on cult status. Beyond that, the Mosin is cheap, accurate enough and durable as hell. Add plentiful, cheap milsurp ammo and you have the star of the moment.

I remember when SKS rifles were everywhere for under $100 and Chicom ammo was cheap as sunshine. Everybody had one and everybody who didn't, wanted one.That all changed and the Mosin has replaced it.

Never be surprised when history repeats itself/

BPowderkeg
February 26, 2012, 09:16 AM
i want to thank everyone for your honest replies..., it is CHEAP !!

deerslayer303
February 26, 2012, 09:28 AM
^^^ I'm with ya Sarge, I remember my Dad bought me my first hunting rifle when i was 14 ( an enfield no.4 mkI) He told me he paid 79.00 for it. Try touching one for that now. And when I turned 18 I bought a Norinco SKS for 80 buck at a gun show, they are what now 250? So yeah I am buying the heck out of Mosins right now,call me crazy but they won't be 100 bucks forever.

TX Hunter
February 26, 2012, 09:39 AM
If you dont like them nobody really cares. :)

deerslayer303
February 26, 2012, 09:44 AM
Just because they don't cost alot doesn't mean they are "cheap". Chew on this. THE top sniper in the Russian army in WWII was a WOMAN with well over 300 confirmed kills.

Slamfire
February 26, 2012, 11:41 AM
I bought Finnish Nagants when they were $69.00 . I bought a M38 and M44 Russian.

These are all fun rifles. They go bang, I killed a spike buck with a M27 Finnish, what the heck.

Sometimes fun is good enough.

Old Time Hunter
February 26, 2012, 04:15 PM
I think it is their fine Russian machining:eek: that makes them so popular!

SIGSHR
February 26, 2012, 07:02 PM
The Mosin Nagant is tied for the Mauser and the Lee Enfield as the military rifle that was used by the most countries in the most conflicts over the longest time. It had a front line service life of probably 70 + years-adopted by Imperial Russia in
1891, my Chinese Type 54 -Vietnam bringback- has a manufacturing date of 1960. There are plenty of variations-Tzarist ones graduated in arshins, Soviet ones grduated in meters, transitional ones, round receivers, hexagonal ones, Finnish ones, Finnish Army captures, Soviet ones without the "SA" cartouche showing Finnish capture, carbines, Dragoon rifles, etc.

Gunplummer
February 26, 2012, 08:41 PM
I just recently sold a long one with a hex receiver at Auction. Some fool paid a couple hundred for it, probably because it had no import markings. I bought it through the mail when I was a kid. I really don't remember how much it was exactly, but think it was $15.00. Sarge is right, if not for the cheap ammo and BS movie, they would still be sitting on the shelves. They were always cheap but nobody wanted them. When I lived in California the hock shops were full of them. Same with the Russian pistols, although they could use fire formed Mauser brass. Bad design from a machining view and a rimmed case to boot. I actually did shoot a deer with that old rifle, but the only thing I ever carried into the deer woods that was worse was a 30-40 Krag and I have had quite the selection of surplus rifles for deer hunting. Buy anything you like but don't try to run the value of them up with BS.

springer99
February 26, 2012, 09:14 PM
Just some food for thought. I can remember the days(pre-64'ish) when the same was said about about British .303 SMLE's and 8mm '98 Mausers that were sold for $15-40 in just about every department store of the time. God only knows how many were just chopped up and "sporterized". The older 11mm or .43cal Mauser Rolling blocks and 45-70 trap-door springfields?... you had a hard time giving away.

I don't think the average Mosin-Nagant's will ever increase in value to the same level since there were just millions of them made, but they are a solid, strong and reasonably accurate battle rifle that is alot of fun to shoot. Of course, I also might be wrong(I was in '64).

Gunplummer
February 26, 2012, 10:25 PM
Even a .303 is a more hunter friendly rifle. Went through a couple of them. Did not really care for them but they were a little more user friendly than some other rifles.

CLC
February 26, 2012, 11:47 PM
I own a few M/Ns and that's not due to any movie. Some of us just enjoy history and the thrill of collecting antique rifles. Alot of stuff that people buy is stupid to me but I don't go out of my way to knock it.

Ignition Override
February 27, 2012, 01:24 AM
It might be the lack of aperture sights.
Among my rifles, all of which are milsurps - except for the .22 - they have aperture sights: SKS (Tech Sight), FR8s, five Enfields, Garand.

Only the Yugo Mauser is for sale, because I'm a lousy shot with it and do not like that type of open sight. It will only be sold FTF (near Memphis).
If Polish MN 44s had aperture sights, I would have at least two of them.

One hang-up is the need to find the right ammo for a given rifle.
The groups from just 50 yards on a bench with my Russian MN 44s, using Bulgarian ammo, were terrible (5" groups). But the rifling and bores were decent.
I concluded that both my shooting and the rifles were the problem, and sold them.

raftman
February 27, 2012, 02:38 AM
i want to thank everyone for your honest replies..., it is CHEAP !!

That's an overly simplistic understanding. It's not merely that it's "cheap."

Being inexpensive doesn't automatically equate to popularity. The Chiappa 1911-22 is cheaper than any other .22lr 1911 lookalike out there, yet it is not popular. The Mosin Nagant is popular not just because it's inexpensive, but also because it's extremely durable, it's fun to shoot, can be quite accurate, is a piece of history, and fires a powerful round. You simply can't get all of those things from any other rifle for that kind of price.

Chew on this. THE top sniper in the Russian army in WWII was a WOMAN with well over 300 confirmed kills.

Not quite. The top female sniper in all of military history was indeed a woman serving in the Russian army, Lyudmila Pavlichenko, with 309 confirmed kills. Amongst all Russian snipers from WWII however, she wouldn't even be in the top 10, there were several Russian snipers with confirmed scores exceeding 400, and even 500.

deerslayer303
February 27, 2012, 03:01 AM
Not quite. The top female sniper in all of military history was indeed a woman serving in the Russian army, Lyudmila Pavlichenko, with 309 confirmed kills. Amongst all Russian snipers from WWII however, she wouldn't even be in the top 10, there were several Russian snipers with confirmed scores exceeding 400, and even 500.


Good stuff, I was going off of memory of the program I watched, I though she was #1. I did think her story of when she squared off against the German sniper in the tree was really great. At any rate I'm sure all of them used a Nagant.

And for the Record I had some nagants before that Movie came out. But every now and then I might get out my favorite one and sit it on the couch so it can enjoy the film too. :D<<< J/K

Mueller
February 27, 2012, 03:05 AM
The Soviets were also the only Army on earth at the time that had their snipers also conduct bayonet charges:confused::eek:

The MN's will eventually go the route of the Mauser,Springfield, SMLE and variations and cost a fortune, though some models variations are already in the 1000 dollar plus range.

I like the modern stuff, but there is just something about blued steel and wood and a crate full of ammunition and a thousand yard range that just get's your heart pumping.

TheGoldenState
February 27, 2012, 04:39 AM
Cheap. All other pros aside, it comes down to money, just like everything else in life.

They are CHEAP.

That's why.


CHEAP.


(Cheap doesn't always equal bad)

Tikirocker
February 27, 2012, 05:31 AM
If Zaitsev took your head off with one, "cheap" wouldn't even factor into the discussion. They were a mass produced bolt action rifle that the Soviets manufactured when they had their backs to the wall - the history and legacy of the rifles effectiveness is legendary. You either appreciate that fact or you don't.

The Russians also developed the T34 Tank, which was technologically inferior to the Panzers - the Soviet T34 drivers had to change gears with a steel mallet! - but with its wider tracks and excellent armor, it proved better than the Panzer on many fields of battle. But forget all of the T34's achievements in battle ... bottom line, it was cheap! :rolleyes:
Tiki.

jager.30-06
February 27, 2012, 09:31 AM
rifle is cheap, ammo cheap, did i mention cheap, i keep 1 in my jeep and 1 in my pickup 24/7 if someone broke in to my vehicle i would rather have that stolen than my m&p15

many a coyote strolling thru the pastures has fallen to my 91/30's on my way home

BPowderkeg
February 27, 2012, 09:55 AM
If you dont like them nobody really cares.

from the number of replies.., seems there are some that do, when it comes to bolt action military rifles i will take the M1903-A3 Springfield Rifle, Caliber .30-06 over any foreign made rifle. i had one once, but being a "Wheeler-Dealer" many years ago i sold it tripling my investment
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPGUm-Dbf-Y__wraMAHTeAEYwx5VyPi-aPPkNk3NA8zZnHPHJEbQ

mnhntr
February 27, 2012, 10:05 AM
cheap to buy & cheap ammo

TX Hunter
February 27, 2012, 10:24 AM
I have one of those too, mine is an 03 A3 though, but i dont take it out and shoot it much, its too nice. Thats a good thing about the 91 30 you can shoot all you want and not worry about it.

rickyrick
February 27, 2012, 11:54 AM
If I knew of an easy source of soft point ammo I'd like to try it out pig hunting, I can hit coke cans further than I would be shooting pigs

emcon5
February 27, 2012, 03:34 PM
Not that hard to find.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/773893/prvi-partizan-ammunition-762x54mm-rimmed-russian-762x53mm-rimmed-150-grain-soft-point-box-of-20

http://www.sgammo.com/product/silver-bear/20-rd-box-762x54r-silver-bear-203-grain-soft-point-ammo-a754spn

http://www.jgsales.com/7.62x54r-wolf-gold,-180gr-sp.-20rd-box-p-3436.html

rickyrick
February 27, 2012, 03:48 PM
I wanna go to a store and get it LOL:D

Coyote_Buster700
February 27, 2012, 04:29 PM
Because Amuricans Love Commie Guns. :D

zbones6
February 27, 2012, 05:22 PM
My first gun was a '38 Izzy, Christmas when i turned 17. Its cheap to shoot, maintain, and has that "been there, done that" feel about them. How many of Hitler's master-race soldiers did this one kill?

tobnpr
February 27, 2012, 05:27 PM
When it comes to factory 7.62 x 54R be advised that most of it uses .308 bullets. I have no idea why, because most Mosin (except for some Finns) measure .311 and larger (as they should).

While some rifles seem to shoot it OK, most will not...

Check to be sure the ammo is loaded with .311 bullets for best results.

rightside
February 27, 2012, 08:29 PM
The gun's price point and power is a real draw to people who don't know much about guns and don't want to spend a lot to see if they like it. The Mosin Nagant has probably drawn more non-gun people to the fun of shooting than any other weapon in a long time. The more people who get a taste of ownership and the fun involved, the better for gun owners everywhere. Every convert is one more vote with us.

Therealkoop
February 27, 2012, 10:30 PM
Because they cost $80. Pretty good rifle for someone on a very extreme budget, but nothing more.

bamaranger
February 27, 2012, 10:41 PM
Wouldn't that be a German eagle?

B.L.E.
February 27, 2012, 10:53 PM
I think the Mosin Nagant is ugly as sin

Offhand, I can think of some way uglier or at least more bizare looking guns than the Mosin. It kind of looks the way a classic army rifle is supposed to look with just enough distinguishing features to give it its own identity.

Maybe we have gotten so used to black polymer mall ninja guns that we have forgotten what a classic bolt action military gun is supposed to look like.

deerslayer303
February 28, 2012, 01:29 AM
Offhand, I can think of some way uglier or at least more bizare looking guns than the Mosin

yeah like the broomhandle, has to be hands down the ugliest gun I've ever seen :D

Mosinka
February 28, 2012, 01:36 AM
A friend of mine shooting my Mosin-Nagant M44:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417318_1960770715857_1740503818_1008110_71163046_n.jpg


Please to note that muzzle flash is longer than rifle, comrades!!!

Ignition Override
February 28, 2012, 01:48 AM
Cheap, there is no doubt. Many .22 rifles are also cheap.

The valuable combination of low price and full Power seems to create the very widespread appeal-flamethrower on dark days, or not.

deerslayer303
February 28, 2012, 01:49 AM
That is an awesome pic mosinka!! Yep you gotta love the blast out of the carbines. I like shooting them at dusk lol, but you have to take a minute between shots so you can see again :D

Mosinka
February 28, 2012, 01:57 AM
I was shooting Romanian AK47 when comrade friend decided to come from behind and shoot next to me. Friend is not so experienced shooter and had muzzle parallel to my head, and just a few feet to the right. Momentarily, right ear drum was in left ear. Better now. I can hear again, but I think muzzle flash may have singed right eyebrow just a bit. Thanks to comrade's girlfriend, I have it all on video too. :D

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422574_10150631097474588_722994587_8933399_2011029970_n.jpg

Mosinka
February 28, 2012, 02:02 AM
More reasons why Mosin-Nagant is so popular (compared with AK47 & AR15):

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

deerslayer303
February 28, 2012, 04:47 AM
Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.

LOL

BPowderkeg
February 28, 2012, 09:54 AM
i really enjoy the comments guys, most are a "hoot" and i got a good laugh from them, the fellow who had a friend shoot near him had better pick better friends, i sure hope his hearing has returned to normal. all i can say is that you fellows have enlightened me about that rifle.

thanks guys :D

Mosinka
February 28, 2012, 10:17 AM
Yes, I'm fine and my hearing is okay too. Thanks for asking. Ben is a great friend, but a somewhat inexperienced shooter. I'm fine, though, and he's had a chance to see that video MULTIPLE times, since I posted it on facebook and tagged him. LOL

The Mosin-Nagant has a long and noble history. It has become the rifle of legends. I've seen numbers as high as 37 million for total production. The rifle was designed in 1891, and was manufactured in one form or another until 1946. It was used by snipers and by ordinary foot soldiers. The ammo is powerful, yet inexpensive, and the guns themselves can still be had as inexpensively as $80 each.

An entire culture has grown up around the Mosin-Nagant. And while some people regard them as ugly, I find them quite attractive.

It's a fun gun that just about anybody can afford to own three or four of and that just about anybody can afford to shoot.

What more could you ask for? LOL

rickyrick
February 28, 2012, 10:18 AM
Pretty shure I seen them being ridden in the Harry Potter movies.

Irish B
February 28, 2012, 10:42 PM
You know those awful bumper stickers that say it's a Jeep thing. . . I want one that says it's a Mosin thing

Mosinka
February 28, 2012, 10:59 PM
If you're going to find them anywhere, you'll find them HERE:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCDsales.htm

And don't miss the Mosin Humor page:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

RC20
February 28, 2012, 11:04 PM
I grew up in the golden age of milsurp rifles, when wonderful old Mausers and '03s and SMLE's were abundant. So this recent obsession with one of that family's ugly sisters is perplexing to me as well.

I am perplexed you are perplexed

Cool old gun at a fairly low price, replaces cooler looking guns that you can't get for a fairly low price anymore.

some of us missed the first round, may catch the second.

Probably had more to do with decimating the German army NCOs and officer corp than any weapon in the War, and maybe infantry as well.

Good enough to be used as a sniper. What's not to love? My dad gave me one when I was a kid. Still have it. Would be afraid to shoot it but not one of the ones I am seeing in the LGS now.

Mosinka
February 28, 2012, 11:08 PM
http://www.zazzle.com/762x54rnet/gifts?cg=196599065348070545

Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find the Mosin-Nagant very beautiful. I also find my Enfield Ishapore 2A1 very beautiful. I find the SKS beautiful. The Tokarev SVT-40 as well. The Dragunov ... not so much!!!

Ignition Override
February 29, 2012, 01:08 AM
As for the power of the round, somebody watched an old film where the rd. wounded a German soldier, went thru a brick wall and wounded a second guy who was crouching behind it.

L_Killkenny
February 29, 2012, 08:59 AM
Come on now let's be honest here. It's not a cool thing, it's not a power thing, it's not a history thing, it's not a fireball thing, it's a MONEY THING.

You take one of each of all centerfire boltguns ever made, mil-surp or civilian, put em on a rack priced at $100 each and except for a very few insane folk the Mosin would be near the bottom of the list.

LK

Tikirocker
February 29, 2012, 09:03 AM
For a lot of people is IS a history thing ... it is for me and for many others who are milsurp shooters and collectors.

Tiki.

raftman
February 29, 2012, 12:40 PM
Come on now let's be honest here. It's not a cool thing, it's not a power thing, it's not a history thing, it's not a fireball thing, it's a MONEY THING.

You take one of each of all centerfire boltguns ever made, mil-surp or civilian, put em on a rack priced at $100 each and except for a very few insane folk the Mosin would be near the bottom of the list.


How is a completely unrealistic, nonsensical comparison being "honest"?
The opposite argument could easily be made. Suppose the Mosin were not historically significant, suppose it fired some sort of uselessly anemic cartridge, suppose it didn't have any potential for accuracy, and to top it all off suppose it wasn't durable either, taking away all of these factors, would people still be buying them for $100 a piece?

Lots of factors go into a decision as to why people buy certain guns; price is a big one one; but to say that's the ONLY thing the Mosin has going for it is being either dishonest or misinformed.

Take for example the Chiappa 1911-22, it is a gun for which the ONLY real advantage over other makers of 1911-style .22's is price. Despite being the cheapest one available, it is neither popular nor well-regarded. Low cost is a deciding factor, but not the only factor most people look at.

Willie Sutton
February 29, 2012, 02:16 PM
"You take one of each of all centerfire boltguns ever made, mil-surp or civilian, put em on a rack priced at $100 each and except for a very few insane folk the Mosin would be near the bottom of the list."


Bingo!

They are popular because the world has run out of surplus 98 Mausers... it's just that they are available and "functional". Put them in a barrel with a bunch of 03 Springfields, Mauser 93's, Mauser 98's, Enfields, Arisakas, and Carcanos and in a day the Springfields would be gone, in a week the 98's would be all gone, the 93's would be mostly picked over with the good ones gone, most of the Enfields would be gone, the Arisakas would be selling slowly, and the Carcanos and Nagants would all be left behind. Nobody in their right mind would shoot a cock-on-close rifle with a split bridge and a bolt handle that must be the worst placed one in the world for a quick follow up shot from the shoulder if they had another choice.


And yes I own a few... as well as a few of each of the others.


Willie

.

droptrd
February 29, 2012, 03:22 PM
If you do not like foriegn military weapons then you probably wouldnt understand

tobnpr
February 29, 2012, 03:27 PM
Let's see...
Nobody in their right mind would shoot a cock-on-close rifle with a split bridge and a bolt handle that must be the worst placed one in the world for a quick follow up shot from the shoulder if they had another choice.

BS...

The infamous and highly accurate Enfield is cock on close...

The M96 Swedish Mauser- which will outshoot ANY K-98 ever built- is cock-on close...

The M28 MOSIN is regarded as one of the most accurate bolt action military rifles produced. Yep, cock on close. Just Google Simo Hayha...

The Mosin bolts are different than the Mauser in that the bolthead rotates with the bolt and lugs. Frankly, I like the system. Much like the Savages I own, swapping out a bolthead if needed is a piece of cake- and I don't need an entire new bolt.

Nothing against the Mauser action- they're proven- but your distaste for cock-on-open actions is unfounded in fact.

Willie Sutton
February 29, 2012, 05:00 PM
"Nothing against the Mauser action- they're proven- but your distaste for cock-on-open actions is unfounded in fact"


Actually... I have a collection of rifles with some 50 examples of cock on close military bolt actions... mixed in among about 200 examples of 20th century military rifles. You forgot the P14 Enfield BTW... one of my favorites.

The Nagant has a few challenges though... the bolt handle position on the bolt being among them. The Swedish Mauser might be cock on close, but you can do a "salute" opening using your index finger and a closure of the bolt with your thumb without unshouldering it. Good luck doing that with a Nagant. But I digress:

The point I was trying to make is that the Nagant is hardly the creme-de-la-creme of military rifle designs. It just happens to be the surplus "we have a barrel full of 'em" de jour. People buy what is available. I've bought a few too... I just place them towards the bottom of the "interesting" list. Aesthetics are part of rifle collecting: Mom Nagant, I have to tell ya... your baby ain't pretty... :o Strong? Yup. Reliable? Sure. Accurate? Uhh... yeah. Pretty? Nope, sorry... not pretty. Oh well.

If there was a selection of other designs for a similar price, it would likely be the one that was picked towards the bottom. The fact is that there are no other designs available for a similar price any longer... thus the interest in them.

For the old timers who remember mixed barrels of K43's, Kar-98's, Enfields, and Arisakas, these are thin times for surplus rifle collectors. But it is what it is... enjoy the hobby. You'll never regret buying a rifle.. you'll only regret the ones that you didn't buy and still remember 30 years later. I *really* ought to have bought that ugly Garand with the funny gas cylinder... yeah, the one from 1937 that I passed up because it looked strange... :(


Best,

Willie

.

L_Killkenny
February 29, 2012, 05:16 PM
The opposite argument could easily be made. Suppose the Mosin were not historically significant, suppose it fired some sort of uselessly anemic cartridge, suppose it didn't have any potential for accuracy, and to top it all off suppose it wasn't durable either, taking away all of these factors, would people still be buying them for $100 a piece?



Hell yes. Any centerfire shooting an affordable cartridge will sell for $100. Heck, it doesn't even have to be an affordable cartridge, look at the Nagant revolvers. But make them $250 and you'd watch em rot. This is an capitalist/economics thing. If they could get more than $100 for em they would. They can't so they don't. If they couldn't get em here and sell em for a profit while still keeping them dirt cheap they'd still be in boxes in Moscow.

LK

tahunua001
February 29, 2012, 05:24 PM
the mosin nagant is quite possibly the most manufactured rifle in the world(I'm not talking about clones of other rifles), there are literally millions of them.7.62x54R is the most economic rifle cartridge around(not counting light carbine rounds like 5.45x39). and they are the only bolt action rifles you can buy for under $100. they are so popular because even the most budgeted gun owner can get one and shoot it regularly. they are far from the greatest battle rifle ever made but they still bring a lot to the table. I do think that luger pistols might be a question for another thread in another forums(they do have handgun forums here)

raftman
February 29, 2012, 06:34 PM
Hell yes. Any centerfire shooting an affordable cartridge will sell for $100.

I sincerely doubt it. If it lacks any historical interest, fires a useless/weak cartridge, is wildly inaccurate, and is prone to breakage with all but the most gentle and infrequent use, then low cost alone wouldn't make it worthwhile, plain and simple. Would some people still buy it? Maybe a few, but it would be a small fraction of those that have and do buy Mosins at present.

How many people buy and like RG revolvers these days? You can probably get one for under $50, and the ammo is as cheap as imaginable in today's economy, yet they don't enjoy any degree of popularity. How did all of those "ring of fire" manufacturers ever go out of business? All they ever did was make dirt-cheap guns firing the most widely available and lowest cost cartridges... isn't that the recipe for popularity and a high volume of sales?

But make them $250 and you'd watch em rot.

Wrong again. M38's and M44's used to be under $80 a piece anywhere you looked just a few years ago. These days people jump on them at twice the price. AIM Surplus a few months ago got a batch of M44's and offered them up at $250 a piece, some said it seemed a little steep in light of how inexpensive they were to buy a few years ago. AIM has sold out of them long since.

If they could get more than $100 for em they would. They can't so they don't.

Give it time, they can and they will. It happens to every single military surplus firearm out there, it's already happened to the Mosin carbines.

They're inexpensive now because they're in such plentiful supply, there are literally tens of millions of them out there... as availability decreases prices will go up, and yes, people will still pay for them. People pay 4x what they used to for an an SKS, don't they?

rickyrick
February 29, 2012, 06:47 PM
I actually researched them a lot before deciding to own one. There are other cheap firearms that I looked into and passed due to reviews.

So cheap is only part of it.

TX Hunter
February 29, 2012, 07:57 PM
I have alwayse thought even before the Mosin became so plentifull, that the Sniper Version was a Cool Looking Weapon. :D

jmstr
March 5, 2012, 04:45 PM
I have a confession to make: I picked up a VZ24 and a M/N Carbine last year and haven't shot them yet. They were at market value and it helped a friend of my dads out with some cash for a surgery.

I also have a 1895 Chilean Mauser [7x57mm], but that one was [poorly] sporterized in the 50s. I made it look good.

I personally can't hit anything with peep/apature sights. The post/notch sights of the Mosin and VZ24 work better with my astigmatism.

For me I like the cheapness of the ammo: as cheap or cheaper than 8x57mm Mauser, and cheaper than .223/5.56 or .308 or .30/06.

I like its reputation for reliability. I like the simplicity of design. [I HATE the safety!]

And I appreciate firearms used by the side that killed 2 germans for every 1 the US/UK/FR/ free Poles, free Norwegians, etc killed on the western front. 77% of all the ammo fired at the German military machine came from the firearms of the USSR. The only thing preventing the odds of my MN having killed more germans than any WWII M1 rifle is that there were SOOOO many MN rifles out there.

I do like the look, but in a weird atavastic way: I like old-fashioned as well as new-fangled designs.

However, I wouldn't spend $1000 for one while I might see myself doing that for a Springfield '03 A3 [in the right condition], or a pristine Mauser K98 with bent bolt.

The cost of the gun and 880 rounds of ammo was about the same as the cost of 900 rounds of 5.56 M885 ball ammo.

Cost definitely is a factor for me, but I REALLY like the sense of history too.

emcon5
March 5, 2012, 05:16 PM
I have alwayse thought even before the Mosin became so plentifull, that the Sniper Version was a Cool Looking Weapon.

Indeed :D

http://www.shedracing.net/imgmisc/sniper.jpg

alexmc22
March 5, 2012, 05:43 PM
I own a mosin nagant 91/30. The best things about them are
#1 they are cheap got mine for $90 in '07. Cheap ammo too.
#2 They are powerful! I bought the heavier yellow tips (I think they were 185gr) russian surplus ammo. When I lived in Montana I would take it to the forest and never met a tree it wouldn't go through or a bowling ball sized rock it wouldn't turn into dust and pebbles.
#3 It is decently accurate. Standing at 120yds every round on a pie plate no problem, with a lot of potential for much better accuracy than that.
#4 Try to break it! It's a very simple gun. easy to break down and clean. Hard to do anything that'll keep it from going BOOM!
#5 It is easy to modify/sportify.

Only thing I didn't like is the rough action of the bolt...you have to manhandle that SOB.

If it's less than 150 buy it. I'd pick up another one if I saw it at the local gun shop.

BTW this gun made a few famous russian snipers during WW2, or they made the gun famous...either way.

Gunplummer
March 5, 2012, 06:01 PM
The McDonalds business rule: Feed them garbage cheap with plenty of sensationalism and they will come.

alexmc22
March 5, 2012, 06:20 PM
The McDonalds business rule: Feed them garbage cheap with plenty of sensationalism and they will come.

to call a mosin garbage is just opinion. like calling an ak garbage. or a makarov garbage... It just depends on what you are looking for. I've never met the owner of a mosin that wasn't happy with it.

Gunplummer
March 5, 2012, 09:14 PM
You have now.

raftman
March 5, 2012, 09:43 PM
You have now.

And yet... probably not really.

alexmc22
March 5, 2012, 09:51 PM
You have now.
any specific reason?

jmstr
March 5, 2012, 09:56 PM
My question is why anyone would expect a $100 rifle that is a modified 121 year old design to be as smooth or have as much accuracy potential as a new bolt action rifle that costs $500 or so?

A MN is what it is: cheap/reliable/minute of torso accurate. That is all it was really designed to do. Competition target shooting to hit the right eye of a silhouette at 400 yards wasn't it design parameter, so why should we be upset if it isn't that accurate.

SocialAnarchist
March 5, 2012, 10:08 PM
I was interested in buying one. I found one for $99 and though GREAT, and then I picked it up and held it like I was going to shoot it, worked the bolt and my whole attitude changed. I just did not like the way it felt in my hands. I just can't explain it better than that. Purely subjective and not a standard that means anything to anyone but me.

BUT, having said that, my mind may change someday, who knows. I would not tell anyone not to buy one if it is what they want. To each his own.

Old 454
March 5, 2012, 11:04 PM
I just bought my Mosin about 1 month ago and I havnt seen that movie, I looked at my son'd M/N and just had to have one.

Mine has a date of 1905 .... a friggin Czar was around then, this rifle had been through the Russian/Jap war, WW1, Russian Revolution and WW2, imagine the history of the diffrent people who used it in battle! For me that in of it self makes it worth owning.It was made to be handled and shot by peasents who more then likely had never traveled much past there own village and there experience with fire arms was probably non exsistant, so it was made simple and robust for the common soldier point, aim and shoot.

It may never be an expensive rifle but as time marchs on these relics of past ages will soon dissapear.

Bamashooter
March 6, 2012, 12:32 AM
Who cares who likes them and who dont. I have 3. 1929 Hex reciever 91/30, 1953 Hungarian M-44, and a 91/59 built from a 1942 Izzy. Sure they arent MOA but after last halloween we rounded up several pumpkins and set then out at 75yrds. and had a fantastic time blowing them to pieces with my mosin nagants. I have also killed a doe at over 200yrds away with the M-44. They are more accurate than you think. You dont like them, cool. More of them for the people who do.

Cheapshooter
March 6, 2012, 12:45 AM
The guns are cheap, the ammo (military surplus) is plentiful, and cheap. They are great shooters at the range. Oh, and historically interesting.
Mine include:
91/30 Tula Hex
91/39 Ishy round91/59
Hungarian M44 (my first M/N)
I missed out on the M38's or I would have a couple of them.

They make a decent looking sporter if someone is so inclined, and does a good job. Not my cup of tea however. I like 'em just as they are along with my Mauser's. SMLE's, Steyr's. and other milsurps.

kinggabby
March 6, 2012, 01:36 AM
I plan on getting a M/N when I can afford the extra money . I know they are cheap at about $100 but right now that might as well be $4000.

FrankenMauser
March 6, 2012, 02:56 AM
Far too many keystrokes have been wasted on the previous posts.

2.5 words are all that are needed:

They're cheap.

Gunplummer
March 6, 2012, 08:28 AM
My reasoning behind not praying to Russian rifles? The only thing going for them is CHEAP. The whole gun is a bad design forced to be that way because of the rimmed ammo it used. Why millions produced? The Russians were sitting on mountains of rimmed ammo and stayed with the rifle. The Russians and Chinese do not care about quality. If I owned a Chinese model I would think twice about shooting it. Their heat treating leaves a lot to be desired even today. The rifles manufactured between wars use wood that looks like the wood used on "Last Ditch" Japanese rifles. Quantity is everything because their greatest resource is farmer/soldiers. Mass assaults were normal operating procedure. Reported sniper kills? At what average range? With all military surplus guns I have seen as many bad shooters as good. Now, according to some people, it seems every Russian rifle was manufactured to be a sniper rifle. Can you hunt with them? Yes. Been there done that. Do I want to? No. I was a kid and it was CHEAP. Pull the barrel? It really sucks. Cheaply side mount a scope? I might as well use my 6.5 Carcano. It is lighter, has an easy safety, and is just as accurate. I did one with a 30-40 barrel, filled in the split bridge so I could mount a scope decently, new trigger assy., and modified the bolt. A lot of work for a hunting rifle. Also did the 8MMx54R thing. I am hardly a virgin when it comes to Russian rifles. These guns have been around a long time. My question to you is where were all these experts when the cheap guns were there but the ammo was not? Buy one, go to the range and have a good time, but don't try to pawn it off as the greatest rifle ever built.
Other clunkers IMO: 30-40 Kraig, both Carcano's, Mas36 ,Austrian Mauser, Swiss K-31.....Never a line at the door to rebarrel these.

emcon5
March 6, 2012, 10:45 AM
Never a line at the door to rebarrel these.

Well that is a sure sign of a quality rifle, people re-barreling them..... :rolleyes:

ccSnoopycc
March 6, 2012, 10:55 AM
I have two an Izzy and a Tula. Mosin Nagants are far from the best military rifles every made. With that being said they are also far from the worst also. They are a solid, functional, cheap, and pretty accurate firearm. With the cheap price point and historical significance I can fully understand the cult following they have. I see some people bashing them extremely hard on here and I cant figure out why. Every one I have shot cycled (albeit a little sticky on the bolt action) and fired every time. Im glad I have my two.

emcon5
March 6, 2012, 11:12 AM
I see some people bashing them extremely hard on here and I cant figure out why

One of them at least, based on posts in this and another thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478100), appears to have a business bubba-ing military rifles for hunters, something the Mosin is not particularly well suited to because of the split bridge and difficulty mounting traditional scope bases.

raftman
March 6, 2012, 01:43 PM
gunplummer, sorry but virtually none of that is true.

The only thing going for them is CHEAP

Largely untrue, this is already been addressed in this thread and has not been refuted.


The whole gun is a bad design forced to be that way because of the rimmed ammo it used.

"Bad design"? It is not inherently less durable, accurate, reliable than any other rifle of its class/time... so what pray tell makes it a "bad design"?

Why millions produced? The Russians were sitting on mountains of rimmed ammo and stayed with the rifle.

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They also used that same round in a wide variety machineguns, in tanks, in aircraft, as used by infantry, etc... if they wanted to use up their mountains of rimmed ammo, they could easily have done so without retaining a rifle that they truly didn't like. By your logic, they would still be using the Mosin as they still have mountains of 7.62x54R ammo... which incidentally is no lesser a round compared to its western counterparts

The Russians and Chinese do not care about quality. If I owned a Chinese model I would think twice about shooting it. Their heat treating leaves a lot to be desired even today.

Spare us this nonsense, please. The fact that there are countless specimens of these guns, some over 100 years old, and most over 60 years old, and they continue to function perfectly proves that there isn't some potentially dangerous lack in quality. There is no documented evidence whatsoever that a Mosin in good condition (Russian, Chinese, Finnish, Hungarian, or any other kind) is at all unsafe to shoot. One might even add that this isn't equally true of Springfield 1903's, by the way.

Now, according to some people, it seems every Russian rifle was manufactured to be a sniper rifle.

According to whom? Who alleged this? Quotes please!

but don't try to pawn it off as the greatest rifle ever built.

Not once in this thread could I find a single instance in which anyone has said that the Mosin is, "the greatest rifle ever built." The Mosin, as we've obviously established, has a lot of fans, but I would suspect a very slim minority would consider it, "the greatest rifle ever built." But it is in fact durable, accurate, hard-hitting, fun-to-shoot, reliable, and it is of significant historical interest, that all doesn't make the "best rifle ever" but it likely does make it the best rifle you can get for the money.

tahunua001
March 6, 2012, 03:58 PM
The only thing going for them is CHEAP.
I would say that this is very untrue, though they are regarded as pretty much the hi points of the rifle world, they have definitely withstood the test of time and it hasn't always been because they were cheap.

The whole gun is a bad design forced to be that way because of the rimmed ammo it used.
how is it bad? these weapons were fired a lot by a primarily poorly trained army of conscripts and some served through multiple wars and yet after sitting in a warehouse for longer than my parents have been alive(yes I'm a young'un) and yet thousands, if not millions of them are still putting thousands of rounds through them a year. just what makes it a terrible design?
The Russians and Chinese do not care about quality.
this is not true at all. just because 99% of what you see at your neighborhood dollar store has made in china stamped on it doesn't mean that this has always been the case. believe it or not russia and china were the biggest players in americas dont make mad list....oh wait a minute... THEY STILL ARE.

Now, according to some people, it seems every Russian rifle was manufactured to be a sniper rifle.
I would say I need to see some quotes printed up. the english were renowned marksmen and yet enfields have a WIDE margin for hit or miss accuracy. enfield pattern 14s and american model 1917s had 2,5,and 6 channel rifling, try telling me that those did not offer a huge variability in accuracy?

My question to you is where were all these experts when the cheap guns were there but the ammo was not?

back when I was barely able to squeeze a trigger I remember forcing my older brother to drag me around with all his highschool friends, back then an SKS was around $80 and 7.62x39 was less than 8 cents a round. every teenager owned one, hunted with it, plinked with it, bubba'd it, trashed it and all the parents didn't bat an eye because, hey, it's a cheap chinese or russian piece of... uh stuff. now SKS are going for $500 and 7.62x39 is around 19 cents a round... tell me one person that now claims that an SKS is a horrible design made by a nation that didn't care what it issued it's troops.

Buy one, go to the range and have a good time, but don't try to pawn it off as the greatest rifle ever built.
again... who has said this? both my little brother and I love our enfields to death and I would never in a million years choose a 91/30 over one. the bolt does lack a certain "click, snap, and smack" that I've always identified with the cycling of a bolt action and it doesn't seem to be built to the tightest tolerances but it is far from the garbage that you make it out to be.

I would love to see the opinions about mosins in 15 years when they are going to $250 and ammo is 30 cents a round.

Gunplummer
March 6, 2012, 04:19 PM
Plenty of nonsense on this forum about " built to shoot 1000 yards" and sniper rifle quality. Most people think long range with snipers, but I would bet a lot of those shots were inside 200 yards with snow for a backdrop. Rebarreling? It means that a specific action is tried and proven and lends itself to other applications. I remember seeing Russians at auctions that were dangerous attempts to convert to 30-06. Seems funny nobody tried to put another barrel on instead of going that route considering you could only get Norma ammo for them. I seem to be one of the few that actually has. A simple bolt assy.? Only if you don't take it apart. During the Korean war the U.S. converted thousands of Arisakas to 30-06 for the South Koreans because they could not deal with the "complicated" M-1's and Carbines. Not made up, I just sold one at auction. You think a Russian woodcutter was any better? I really don't care. I recently sold a carbine in the cosmoline to my buddy's kid for $60 bucks with a couple boxes of ammo. It was under the bench so long I don't even remember the trade that I got it with. Go to the range and have a blast, but it is what it is. Nobody wants to answer my question: If they are so great, why didn't anybody buy one when Norma was the only game in town?

On the side, the Chinese did not bother to heat treat the trunnion blocks on their AK's or bother to thread the barrels on the models I saw. You think their work got worse since the 50's?

wogpotter
March 6, 2012, 04:25 PM
What is so fascinating about this rifle ?
$$$$!:D

Bamashooter
March 6, 2012, 05:48 PM
As far as quality goes my Hungarian M-44 is one of the most beautiful Mosin Nagants Ive ever seen. Ive also killed a doe with it at over 200yrds. I have two others that shoot almost as well as the M-44. Do I think the mosin is all that? For the money, you damn right I do. I dont have any future plans to try and turn it into my dream rifle. I have two carbines that didnt cost me $200 for the two together but now you couldnt buy one for that price. Im glad I got mine while the getting was good. I love all three of mine but I dont pray to them. They arent God, they are rifles. Inexpensive, accurate, well built, easy to disassemble, even the bolt, cheap to shoot, historical, fun rifles.

emcon5
March 6, 2012, 06:16 PM
Plenty of nonsense on this forum about " built to shoot 1000 yards"You are right, 1000 yards is nonsense. We all know it is actually Meters, and 2000.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2cwvndk.jpg

tahunua001
March 6, 2012, 06:36 PM
I would love to see someone shoot something with that 2000 meter sight :D

gunplummer, it's a good thing you mentioned that stuff about chinese AKs, I better warn my older brother before he swaps out that flash hider and puts another couple crates of ammo through his junk Chinese AK.

rickyrick
March 6, 2012, 07:11 PM
Posted by ME several pages ago...


1. Cheap. 2. Powerful 3. Most are in good condition. 4. Fun.

TenRing
March 6, 2012, 08:02 PM
In carbine form, the MN makes a handy and low cost deer rifle or maybe a spare rifle to leave at the cabin when you don't want to leave anything more expensive. Buy lots of surplus ammo for pennies on the dollar compared to modern ammo.

There are times when cheap is good.

ccSnoopycc
March 6, 2012, 10:40 PM
Five pages worth of debate and discussion thats why they are so popular :D. I bet this thread has another few pages left to go.

Gunplummer
March 6, 2012, 10:40 PM
CHEAP AMMO

rickyrick
March 7, 2012, 05:32 AM
Everybody loves the raccoon trap trigger. LOL

sc928porsche
March 7, 2012, 06:35 AM
Military surplus rifles have always been popular. The usually cost a lot less than sport rifles when they were first released. That was usually the most significant factor. My first purchase was a 30/40 Krag for the price of $40. I have been a bit crazy about mil/surp ever since. I have a lot of them now and at least one of each in original configuration. The rest have been sporterized (no bubbas). Keep in mind that I have never sold a firearm so its resale value is of no concern to me.

BPowderkeg
March 7, 2012, 09:00 AM
thanks for all the replies folks, i am learning more than i ever expected about the MN.

keep'em coming, i love most of the comments, some seem to be a tad bit on the sour side, yet informative !

Rifleman1776
March 7, 2012, 09:01 AM
Cheap.

Gunplummer
March 7, 2012, 10:49 AM
Look at the original question you posted. I answered it. Some of these guys even admit they were little tykes when the SKS was big. Some claim to really know about the design. I am probably the only guy on this thread that has ever rebarreled one or done the Finnish 8mmx54R version. (Fin powder reload book if interested) The Russian rifle was in this country BEFORE I WAS BORN, and you could not sell them once the ammo dried up. (Except to dumb kids like me through the mail, but that is another story) Piece of history my butt. Nobody wanted them except for a cheap wall hanger. There really is nothing to strip off one except for another Russian. The barrel is an odd size (Time for an expert to chime in about fin barrels) and I have burned better wood in my stove. Until the import law changed and released tons of cheap guns and ammo into the U.S. the Russian bolt rifle was at the bottom of the pile. Yes, it is true, at one time you could not even import whole Mausers, only parts. Now, Mr. Bpowderkeg, add that up and it comes out to: CHEAP AMMO.

TenRing
March 7, 2012, 10:57 AM
The Mosin Nagant is fascinating for all the reasons mentioned above. Also, it is a rifle that many people around the world have used in war for over 100 years. Not many rifles remain in service this long in so many countries. It sells on sheer historical significance. Literally millions of these were built, packed in cosmoline and stockpiled in bunkers around the world along with millions of rounds of ammo "just in case". Since many of those nations later upgraded their rifles, they started to retrieve the MN rifles and sell them off to make room in their bunkers for newer rifles.

Even today, the MN would make a serviceable self defense or offensive weapon until you could acquire a modern semiautomatic rifle. Consider that some of the communist nations have huge armies. Even with slow, antique bolt action Mosin Nagant rifles, an army of several million soldiers could fend off an attack from a technologically superior foe or they could go on the offensive and wreak havoc because of their large numbers.

The Mosin Nagant wouldn't be anybody's first choice for a battle rifle but if it is all you have, it would shoot hard and straight. When you run out of ammo it makes a great bayonette mount and trench club.

Mike Irwin
March 7, 2012, 11:13 AM
"The Russian rifle was in this country BEFORE I WAS BORN, and you could not sell them once the ammo dried up."

Generally the ones that were in the United States prior to the 1970s were ones made by Westinghouse on contract for the Czarist Governemnt. When the communists took over, they defaulted on the contracts.

The United States army used Westinghouse Moisin-Nagants in basic training for many US Doughboys after the US entry into WW I as a means of freeing up Springfields and Enfields for front-line troops.

The Moisin-Nagants that were "converted" to .30-06 were Westinghouse rifles so adulterated by Francis Bannerman's company in the 1920s. To fit the longer round, the receiver ring had to be dished out. These are generally considered to be unsafe to fire.

Remington and Winchester both loaded the Russian round for commercial sale (as well as the 8mm Lebel) through the 1950s, possibly into the early 1960s.

Gunplummer
March 7, 2012, 01:37 PM
What he said, except the hock shops were full of WWII and Korean war bring backs by the mid-50's. I lived in LA in the early 70's and every gun shop and hock shop had Tokarev pistols also dirt cheap. Same thing, no ammo. You younger guys are spoiled. Get on the net and order ammo. You know nothing about the bad years for buying guns and ammo. Most of you are missing the whole point of this post. Reread the original post. Nobody cares what you buy, they want to know why. Cheap ammo is why. Time for some honest answers. How many would have bought a rifle that you can not get ammo for? No nonsense,YES or NO answer.

Afterthought: Has nothing to do with this. I seem to remember seeing an 1895 Winchester being chambered in 7.62x54R. Could have been a rework, I don't know. Any Winchester collectors on this thread?

Bamashooter
March 7, 2012, 01:48 PM
I had never even heard of a mosin nagant until the mid 90's. By then ammo was plentiful just like it is now. I have surplus ammo and factory ammo that isnt so cheap for my mosin's. Would I have bought one if I couldnt get ammo for it, of course not. The fact is since Ive had mine I havent had any issues getting ammo. I bought 600rds of bulgarian brass cased ammo from a local gun shop here in town. I have paid $30 for quality ammo. I dont really care how it was in the 50's or 60's. Now I can get it anywhere because there are tons of mosin nagant's here. I have my rifles because I like them. Period.

rickyrick
March 7, 2012, 01:54 PM
You are correct, no I wouldn't knowingly buy a rifle that I coulnt buy ammo for.

TX Hunter
March 7, 2012, 02:44 PM
I understand about the ammo I would like to have a Steyr 1895 carbine, (and they are dirt cheap and plentifull right now) but havent because the 8x56R ammo is hard to find.

tahunua001
March 7, 2012, 03:01 PM
what ^he said, steyr stutzens are the cheapest thing to get besides a mosin right now but ammo is ungodly expensive. in all honesty if ammo wasn't so cheap i would just be happy with my enfield.

Mike Irwin
March 7, 2012, 05:27 PM
"What he said, except the hock shops were full of WWII and Korean war bring backs by the mid-50's."

Korean and Vietnamese War, yes.

World War II? No. The Soviets were allies, and American contact with them was fairly limited, so opportunities for Moisin-Nagants to come back with US troops were very limited.

I've also heard that the US military could be strange about bringing back allied arms.

As for purchasing rifles for which you can't buy ammunition, I've bought several like that over the years, knowing full well that I may not be able to shoot them.

jimbob86
March 7, 2012, 05:45 PM
You are right, 1000 yards is nonsense. We all know it is actually Meters, and 2000.


If you get a really old one, then they are marked in Arshins!

Seriously though, those sights are for massed volley fire- kind of poor mans machinegun ...... though if you are dedicated, you could make a thousand yard gun out of it.... it's been done.

in all honesty if ammo wasn't so cheap i would just be happy with my enfield.

I dislike the rear locking bolt of the enfield ..... I prefer the mosin.

As for cheap ammo ..... I handload. Yes, you can get crappy surplus cheaper, but life is too short to shoot crappy ammo.

ccSnoopycc
March 7, 2012, 07:34 PM
I would say that cheap ammo is a major factor but not the only factor. I am about ready to purchase a Steyr 1895 carbine and I know the ammo is expensive and rare for that firearm but it still will make its way into my collection. One day I hope to reload for it also.

raftman
March 7, 2012, 10:27 PM
Rebarreling? It means that a specific action is tried and proven and lends itself to other applications.

The design lasted through two world wars, and countless other conflicts, there are specimens over 100 years old (and they're all at the very least 50+ years old) and continue to fire accurately, reliably to this day. To a rationally-minded, that would be a better indicator of "tried and true" than how often something is rebarreled.

. Seems funny nobody tried to put another barrel on instead of going that route considering you could only get Norma ammo for them.

Gee... wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that the country was already awash with inexpensive .30-06's, and it would have been easier to buy one than to go through the expensive, more labor-intensive route of rebarreling what was at the time a relatively uncommon rifle?

A simple bolt assy.? Only if you don't take it apart.

If it can be explained in a 4-minute youtube video then yes, it's probably pretty simple.

Nobody wants to answer my question: If they are so great, why didn't anybody buy one when Norma was the only game in town?

Because the rifles themselves weren't as widely available as they are today.

deerslayer303
March 7, 2012, 11:15 PM
Other clunkers IMO: 30-40 Kraig, both Carcano's, Mas36 ,Austrian Mauser, Swiss K-31.....

The Swiss K-31.....a clunker??? :eek: I don't know of many who would agree.

govmule84
March 7, 2012, 11:24 PM
Nobody cares what you buy, they want to know why.

I got no dog in this fight, but I built up a little sporter Mosin for short money - $250 and a little research and labor got me a 16" barreled, scout scoped, plastic stocked rifle with a sling, firing a full-power cartridge capable of taking game anywhere I can currently afford to hunt. Hard deal to beat.

I had an American rifle re-chambered for 54R. I like the round, and my target gun and my deer gun are the same caliber, so I can cut down on ammo and component costs. I think it's neat to experiment a little with a caliber that still has precious little load info published. My Mosin sporter shoots sub-MOA... not many people can make that claim about their rifle that they spent two and half bills on, can they?

As far as your contention that it's the ammo that drives us all... uh, I have never shot a single mil-surp round. 40 factory S&B loads, and the rest have been hand-rolled.

Bamashooter
March 8, 2012, 12:02 AM
The bolt is easy to take apart and put back together. If I can figure it out anyone can.

Cheapshooter
March 8, 2012, 12:54 AM
Gunplummer, I have the impression that in your mind the only use for a milsurp rifle is to re-barrel it into something else. Not to just shoot it as it was built, and enjoy it for what it is.
I enjoy shooting all of my "clunkers" as you call them. M/N, SMLE, K31, Mausers of various nationality's, Even my MAS 36, MAS 49/56, and both my Steyr M95's.
On a handgun thread I'm sure you would have the same opinion of my 1895 Nagant, and various Tokarev handguns.

rickyrick
March 8, 2012, 10:59 AM
I have to agree that the bolt is pretty much GI or dummy proof. Even the firing pin protrusion is easy to adjust. The bolt design is a little flawed, but a little vodka and determination you can work it.

Gunplummer
March 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
Your name says it all. Cheapshooter. There is a tiny percentage of people that go for the odd(Me included) collectors such as Carcanos, Arisakas, Austrian Mausers, Swiss K-31's and what ever else. The first sign of "Odd" is the inability to get reasonably priced ammo. Even the 98 Mauser was an "Odd" gun at one time. The result of this was to re-cut the chamber to something usable such as 8mm-06, 6.5-257 or just rebarrel it to a common caliber. The poor designs got pushed to the side. Other than dangerous 30-06 conversions, or at least one nicely converted to 30-40, give me reference to Russian rifles converted to a common caliber during the ammo shortage years. The guys still arguing remind me of a guy at the range. I was shooting an Arisaka reworked to 7.62x54 and as I was the only one around, he picked me to give a lesson on the head space of the rifle I was shooting. I ground the reamer and made the bolt. I really did not want to hear it.

I just saw your post, Rickyrick. You forget that a lot of people on this forum are mechanicly inclined. Some of the other guys on this forum that did smith work can probably also tell you horror stories about improper assy. of the simplest guns. I'm done.

emcon5
March 8, 2012, 11:16 AM
Seriously though, those sights are for massed volley fire- kind of poor mans machinegun ...... though if you are dedicated, you could make a thousand yard gun out of it.... it's been done.

Right, they are for shooting at formations of troops, not individual targets, tactics that were largely obsolete even when the rifle was first designed in 1891.

My local range has a gong at ~950 yards, next time I go I will take a few pokes at it with the irons. I have hit it a few times with the PU Sniper I posted a photo of a couple pages back, but there is a fair amount of luck involved, the surplus ammo isn't all that accurate. Handloading will improve that I am certain.

They are just fun rifles.

Cheapshooter
March 8, 2012, 12:49 PM
Your name says it all. Cheapshooter.

That's exactly where it came from. Carried over from a milsurp forum, and chosen because I do enjoy having shooter quality surplus firearms rather than safe queen collectibles. Although my entire battery of firearms include several that aren't in the "cheap" range. Remington, Winchester, Colt, Walther, Browning, Ruger, S&W, CZ, Springfield Armory, Glock, Thompson Center, Beretta, Henry, Savage, and High Standard Brands can all be found in my safes along with the milsurps, Hi-Point, Heritage Rough Rider, and Cimarron.
Even a custom built 98 Mauser re barreled to 6MM Remington, and a very nice custom built Remington 700 in 7MM Remington Magnum. Both incredibly accurate tack drivers.

tobnpr
March 8, 2012, 06:11 PM
I'm taking the one I built (in post #5) to ring some steel at 600 at the Manatee Gun Club on Sunday...if I get cocky (and lucky) enough, might try 1000 yards.

The rifle is capable, it shoots just over minute of angle with 174 SMK handloads. I'm the weak link, not the rifle.

To be fair, it is fully receiver and pillar bedded, with a Timney trigger to get the most out of it. But the barrel has solid rifling, and is capable of delivering decent accuracy. Won't match our Savages and Remington 700's- but they don't get the comments the Mosin does at the range, either...

BPowderkeg
March 9, 2012, 07:37 AM
the more you folks post the more i learn, KEEP'EM COMING !!

jhenry
March 9, 2012, 08:59 AM
There isn't anything wrong with a MN really except that safety. It can be lived with though. The Timney replacement trigger for the MN has a thumb operated safety that is user friendly if a guy wants to go that route. Time tested, rugged, reliable, acceptably accurate, more so with some. Inexpensive, powerful and cheap ammo is available. My M38 carbine is surprising accurate for what it is. My M39 Finn is just plain accurate. That rifle can hold 1.5" at 100 yards with old surplus ammo. Not bad for a rifle with no blue visible and a beat up stock. Still has that goofy safety. The trigger on the Finn is pretty nice. I will likely pick up a 91/30 just to round things out if for no other reason.

rocker98
March 9, 2012, 12:34 PM
"I Need An Answer To Why Is The Mosin Nagant Is So Popular ?"

It's a sickness. I'm down with the sickness.

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=492626&d=1324266332
http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=492627&d=1324266338

Cheapshooter
March 9, 2012, 11:30 PM
It's a sickness. I'm down with the sickness.

Mosinitis Nagantaphilia:

"Infected with the love of the Mosin Nagant rifle".
Incurable, but the symptoms are controllable with the occasional, or not so occasional, purchase of one of the countless variants of the Mosen Nagant rifle.

Stevie-Ray
March 10, 2012, 12:12 AM
For me, it was the perfect choice to be able to have a fun project off a cheap, and quite accurate action that is also capable of long-range performance.
This rifle was fun to build- and yes, because I did the work myself, I have less "in it" than a comparable Savage or (fill in the blank).I've long thought about getting a MN for something along these lines. Don't be surprised if I contact you in the next year or so.;) Looks great, BTW.

Hossless
March 10, 2012, 12:44 AM
As most have stated - CHEAP, did I mention cheap? Fairly accurate out of the cosmoline. Built like a tank, and easy to mod. Fun to shoot also. Throw on a mount and scope and you have a great deer, wild hog rifle for a total of $250 bucks give or take.

ksstargazer
March 10, 2012, 08:52 AM
I've got FAL's, HK91's, AR's, Garand's, and quite a few bolt rifles. When I want a fun afternoon target shooting and plinking, I will bring out my Finnish mosins. I know it will be fun and cheap and my sore shoulder will remind me of the fun for several days after!

lawnboy
March 10, 2012, 11:40 AM
They're on the wall at my LGS for $149. This seems a little high given that others seem to be able to find them for 2/3 of that price.

I actually think about buying one for the old fashioned 3 gun wall rack in my office. They look kinda decorative.

clcsocal
March 13, 2012, 12:42 AM
Picked my first one up today! Paid $89 plus tax and fees. Can't wait to get it into the mineral spirits bath and get it ready to shoot. Maybe not the prettiest gun I own, but certainly the most historic and most affordable. Now for some surplus ammo.

Mosinka
March 13, 2012, 01:04 AM
Lawnboy, different versions of the Mosin-Nagant will fetch different prices depending on availability. Generally, the 91/30's of WWII vintage (1938-1944) are selling for $80-$110 because they are the most plentiful. Finnish Mosins will fetch a much higher price. I paid $150 for my M44. I paid slightly more for my M91/59. I also have a hex receiver Mosin with a 31" barrel dated 1915 that I paid $130 for.

Here's a family photo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mosin_Nagant_series_of_rifles.jpg

jimbob86
March 13, 2012, 01:07 AM
They're on the wall at my LGS for $149. This seems a little high given that others seem to be able to find them for 2/3 of that price.

I actually think about buying one for the old fashioned 3 gun wall rack in my office. They look kinda decorative.


Don't think on it overly long- they are not making any more of these, and they are cranking out the dollars at a dizzying pace..... $150 won't buy you a roll of tp in 10 years at the rate we are going......

deerslayer303
March 13, 2012, 01:08 AM
I actually think about buying one for the old fashioned 3 gun wall rack in my office. They look kinda decorative.


If you want one thats decorative, get a 91/30 with a laminate stock, these things are beautiful IMHO!