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View Full Version : Glock 22 vs Ruger SR40


TunnelRat
February 24, 2012, 04:58 PM
Hi All,
I'm looking at buying a polymer striker fired 40 S&W pistol. I've narrowed it down to these two. I've had M&Ps and they just aren't my cup of tea. I like the XDM 40 okay, but it's a bit more than I want to spend right now and I don't find it that much better than these two choices.

Any thoughts?

-TR

RUT
February 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
Gen 4 G22 would be my choice.

DubC-Hicks
February 24, 2012, 05:14 PM
Can't go wrong with the Glock as long as it feels good in your hands.

hoytinak
February 24, 2012, 05:15 PM
Go with the one that's more comfortable for you.......for me it's the Ruger.

Red Dog
February 24, 2012, 05:25 PM
SR40 felt better in my hands.

MrDontPlay
February 24, 2012, 05:26 PM
Ergonomics aside, the glock does have a few advantages. It will much easier to find aftermarket parts, holsters, and accessories.

As far as reliability, my SR40 has been 100% reliable, I'm sure the glock would be 100% reliable also. I've never fired a glock or tried the trigger on one, I've got a ghost trigger on my SR40 and it's pretty good. I picked up my SR40 BNIB for $399, I don't know what glocks are going for.

I'd say they're both extremely reliable so pick the one you like.

Derekc294
February 25, 2012, 12:56 PM
I prefer the Glock 22 personally. The feel of it and reliability can't be beat.

KenLondregan
February 25, 2012, 01:10 PM
Go with what feels best in your hands. You will only get to know that by trying them both out. For me, it was the Glock 22.

Will Beararms
February 25, 2012, 01:51 PM
Glock Gen. 4 22 with "0-1-4" recoil spring assembly and "28926" ejector.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa129/Letmland/Freedom%20Teeth/02172012004.jpg

Sarge
February 25, 2012, 01:54 PM
I don't usually wade into these 'vs' threads but I'm going to make an exception here, with a twist.

I have never shot a fullsize SR40. I have shot a heaping 5-gallon bucket of G22's. I do know the latter works and shoots pretty well.

In the subcompacts however, I favor the SR40C. My wife bought one last September and it's probably got 500 rounds of various FMJ and JHP factory loads, along with my Montana Bullet JHP load my MO Bullet SWC load. It has chugged through the lot of the without a single malfunction. I finally pried it away from her last week, long enough for a range report.

The SR40C has usable adjustable sights, which of the 3-dot variety. I particularly like the SR40C's grip, which has a reversible rubber backstrap to fit large or small hands.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/SR40C_2.jpg

The pistol has the safety in a familiar spot for us 1911 folks and a safety is something I really like on a small, short-pull semi-auto designed for concealment. It also shoots pretty well, turning in this group from a rest at 25 yards with the aforementioned Montana Bullet load. It is fairly representative of what the gun will do when the operator doesn't screw it up.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/SR40C_1.jpg

It didn't shoot bad with the SWC load either, which is the group closest to the bull. I think the horizontal stringing is mine... wind had picked up.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/SR40C_25.jpg

This also the softest shooting .40 S&W auto, of any size, that I've ever fired. I would certainly buy one over a Glock 27, based on my experience with this gun. I'd get the blue one, myself.

plouffedaddy
February 25, 2012, 03:50 PM
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/DSC01238.jpg

I have just added the Gen4 G22 to my HD rotation. 750 rounds through it so far. I'll write a full review at 1,000 but no failures and it looks very good so far.

ritepath
February 25, 2012, 03:55 PM
I really liked the feel of the sr40 and the price is hard to beat. I like the placement of the safety, I don't care for the rounded nose of rugers.

SwampYankee
February 25, 2012, 03:58 PM
I have an SR40c and love it. Most accurate .40 I own, very comfortable and conceals well. I have never fired a Glock, I'm sure they are just as reliable but I could never get over the ugly factor. It may be a dumb reason not to like a gun, but it is the reason I got.

TacticalDefense1911
February 25, 2012, 05:46 PM
If you can get past the grip angle the Glock is a better gun. Glocks have been proven throughout the world to flat out work. Ruger makes a good little gun but the Glock is still a more refined gun.

triumph666
February 25, 2012, 11:07 PM
the sr40 has a better feeling contoured grip to me...i own the g22 and the grip just have never felt right no matter how good i shoot with it...but the ruger feels good in my hand and i've thought about buying it for that reason alone....and of course their excellent manufacturing!


I do love my rugers!

CombustibleLemon
February 25, 2012, 11:28 PM
Not to mention the conversion kits out there for the G22. You could essentially have a 9mm, 357, 40 S&W, and 22 lr in the same gun with conversion kits. Aside from that you can find every bell, whistle, upgrade, do-dad, and thing-a-ma-bob for the Glock pretty easily to customize it to you. I would go with the Glock and not look back. And if it is an epic failure for you, then you can resell it and buy a new SR40 for the used price of the Glock and still have some left over for ammo. Just my $0.02

SwampYankee
February 26, 2012, 12:03 AM
Ruger makes a good little gun but the Glock is still a more refined gun.

Glock fanboys unite!

Refined? Really? What exactly does that even mean?

I have admitted that I have never had a Glock. I wonder how many people with pro-Glock opinions have ever fired the Ruger?

I BELIEVE that they are both the same functional gun. Heck, why would Ruger do anything else but steal what Glock has been doing for decades? Assuming that is true, all you really need to decide is what feels better and whether you want your dollars to stay in the US or go to Germany. I will say that I have HELD a Glock before and was not terribly impressed. I may have been swayed by the pleasant esthetics of the Ruger, but it does seem to feel better to me.

If you want to shoot .40's, buy a dedicated gun. If you want to shoot .22's, buy a Ruger Mark II, a Woodsman or a Buckmark. If you shoot .40's, don't waste your time on 9 mm or .357 Sig. If you shoot 9 mm, why would you bother with .40's or .357 Sig. It's 6 of one, half dozen of another....

Sarge
February 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
That 'refined' comment perplexed me as well. If you pull the slide off the SR and look into the frame, you'll see that Ruger started with a blank piece of refined Glock letterhead when they designed the SR Series. They added better (or at least more 'American') modular grip, adjustable sight and an unobtrusive, ambidextrous safety. Somehow, perhaps by accident, the Ruger manages recoil much better.

While they are both ugly as sin, Ruger one-upped Glock there as well. The SR40C is actually uglier than a 27- but not quite as ugly as the XD. My approach to this problem us to buy the blue SR40C... at least it's harder to see, LOL.

TacticalDefense1911
February 26, 2012, 07:00 AM
Glock fanboys unite!

Refined? Really? What exactly does that even mean?

Umm, no. Sorry, anything but a Glock fanboy here, but when choosing between a Glock and a Ruger its not a hard choice. As far as refined, the Glocks trigger comes to mind first. It is easily better than the Rugers. The Glock has been around since the early 80's while the SR has been around for how long now?? Glocks have been used world wide with huge success with thousands of examples racking up huge round counts with no failures or breakages. The same cannot be said for the Ruger. Adjustable sights are a no-go for many on a fighting gun and an external safety is not needed on a DAO striker fire gun and can be a liability if you don't practice with the gun enough. So once again, the Ruger may look nicer but as far as a functioning handgun goes, the Glock is still on top of the polymer pistol pile.

excelerater
February 26, 2012, 07:15 AM
i prefer the SRs over my Glocks..but Ruger has zero aftermarket parts
on the web for the SR guns and thats a bummer....

iamdb
February 26, 2012, 11:11 AM
SARGE - My approach to this problem is to buy the blue SR40C... at least it's harder to see, LOL.
lol, finally some humor. this forum has been getting dry and bitter.

It is easily better than the Rugers You do realize you are in the minority with this statement. but is subjective none the less.

Glocks have been used world wide with huge success with thousands of examples racking up huge round counts with no failures or breakages. The same cannot be said for the Ruger.Lies, pure and simple. Although, I dont have the SR chambered in 40 my 9 has upwards of 5 thousand rounds with not 1 malfunction. No ftf, fte, light strikes, etc. There were 2 different glock stoppages at my last IDPA match. I even ditched my venerable g19 after running a case through my Ruger. Which has won handgun of the year award for the past 3 years in a row by industry insiders. For whatever that's worth

Adjustable sights are a no-go for many on a fighting gun and an external safety is not needed on a DAO striker fire gun and can be a liability if you don't practice with the gun enough Logical fallacy. The sights on the ruger are partially hooded (Meaning all exposed sides are solid and cannot move, adjustable dots are recessed ), dove tailed in, and locked into place. They are about as close to ideal as one can get. The safety is non issue. I don't believe you have even held an SR let alone shot one.

Rogervzv
February 26, 2012, 11:18 AM
Buy American. Ruger. The job you save may be your own.

Besides, the Ruger SR series is more refined than the Glocks. Better trigger, better looks. I like the Ruger sight better too.

I will not own an automatic pistol that does not have a slide safety. Ruger.

plouffedaddy
February 26, 2012, 12:13 PM
Glocks are made in the US as well. And, Sturm Ruger Inc supported Bill Clintons' anti-gun legislation (yes, I realize Mr. Ruger is gone). People act like Glock isn't employing Americans. It's just not true. 100% US made Glocks are exported currently, but they are made here in the US.

jmr40
February 26, 2012, 12:45 PM
I wouldn't say the Glock is more refined, but it is certainly more proven. The Ruger may turn out to be just as good, but I'll let someone else do he field testing. I'd buy the gun with the proven track record in this case. Glock.

Walklightly
February 26, 2012, 12:58 PM
#2

RUT
Gen 4 G22 would be my choice.
__________________


Can't go wrong with the Glock as long as it feels good in your hands.

Can you explain that? Because I'm considering (Two years thinking) a Glock 17 or a Ruger SR9/high caps full size for my next carry.

Have you ever shot an SR40?

I've never shot an SR anything, but I have shot 2-3 models of Glock 40s, don't ask!

But I've held both, and got to say, the Glock is a Block. TBS, I've never shot the slightly heavier SR9.

Lightless is on my list, and narrowness, which the SR9 hold's first place although a little heavier.

I think I'm going with the newer SR. In fact, I am.

This is for CCW. And to heck with the Sc's, I already have a J-frame.

Walklightly
February 26, 2012, 01:14 PM
Hi All,
I'm looking at buying a polymer striker fired 40 S&W pistol. I've narrowed it down to these two. I've had M&Ps and they just aren't my cup of tea. I like the XDM 40 okay, but it's a bit more than I want to spend right now and I don't find it that much better than these two choices.

Any thoughts?

-TR

I'm sorry, I forgot your OP. What is you life worth?

SR40,....

I've had M&Ps and they just aren't my cup of tea. I like the XDM 40

What, did you spend the night with them?

Well son, maybe you need to spend a few more nights with the other's, so, no body is jelious.

I just wish people would be more spicific what they don't like about each gun, and, what they liked about other guns.

Sorry, did you understand that?

SR40

PS: That was an easy one, my next gun is an SR9

SwampYankee
February 26, 2012, 02:18 PM
I have an SR40c. I carry it concealed IWB. It's small and not a problem to keep it concealed.

It's my most accurate .40. The only downside is the magazine disconnect. But I popped that out in 3 minutes.

TunnelRat
February 26, 2012, 05:11 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot your OP. What is you life worth?

What, did you spend the night with them?

Well son, maybe you need to spend a few more nights with the other's, so, no body is jelious.

Are you on prescription medication? Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. What is my life worth what?:confused:

Walklightly
February 27, 2012, 07:04 AM
I don't take med's when I'm dinking.:D

I just reread it, I see your point.

SR40 is a good low priced gun IMHO. $407 at Bud's.

TacticalDefense1911
February 27, 2012, 11:15 AM
Lies, pure and simple. Although, I dont have the SR chambered in 40 my 9 has upwards of 5 thousand rounds with not 1 malfunction. No ftf, fte, light strikes, etc. There were 2 different glock stoppages at my last IDPA match. I even ditched my venerable g19 after running a case through my Ruger. Which has won handgun of the year award for the past 3 years in a row by industry insiders. For whatever that's worth

So you call me a liar because you have a measly 5k rounds through your SR without failure? The Glock has a proven 30 year track record while the SR has been around, what, 4 years now? The Ruger may very well be as reliable and durable as the Glock but I really don't think its earned that reputation yet. Once again, with the choice between the Glock and the Ruger, if the OP likes both of them and they both feel good to him, excuse me for going with the one with a 3 decade track record of working and working well and not the one that happens to have won "gun of the year" three times because its the latest and greatest and the gun rags like it.

tahunua001
February 27, 2012, 11:32 AM
I would like to start by apologizing for not reading the entire thread before posting. now I have no hate for glocks but I dont have much love for them either. I love and own XDMs and have also never liked M&Ps much so I'm pretty much in the same boat as you but I would say that my SR9C that I have for concealed carry is a very nice gun. Ruger did a very good job with the sr series pistols and I would heavily recommend them.

not exactly a direct comparison of 22 to sr40 but personal experience with glock 19 VS SR9C
1. accuracy goes to SR9C
2. comfortability(for me) goes to the SR9C
3. trigger feel goes to the SR9C
4. reputation goes to 19
5. reliability is about a tie if you go with either post recall Gen 4 or Gen 3 glocks
6. recoil management is a huge nod to the SR9C, glock 19 had horrible muzzle flip but comparing a compact 9mm to a full sized 40 is going to be murky water so I wont go too far into that.
7. ammo pickiness is a tie
8. safety goes to the SR9c but I removed the mag disconnect from my SR just because I wanted to remove any (IMHO) unnecessary potential points of failure. I do like the manual safety switch on the SR because I rarely shoot alone and I share my guns a lot so even though everyone I shoot with are well versed in firearms safety I still feel more at ease handing a gun to someone with a manual safety on.
9. sights go to the glock, glock sights are rectangular while the SR series has triangular front sights. it doesnt cause much concern while shooting but while teaching people to shoot I like to balance a dime on the front sight and let them dry fire until they can squeeze the trigger without the dime falling off the front sight... can't do that with the SR.
10. ammo cap is going to be unrelated to your options and it's been a while since I've shot a 22 and read about the SR40 but I believe ammo capacity are the same.
11. both companies stand by their products 100% and have good customer service so this is a tie.
12. price goes to the SR series. I paid $400 for my SR9C and I see a lot of guys on here getting theirs for $360-ish while most glocks go for right around $500
13. aftermarket support goes to the glock but just about any LGS or sporting goods store I've been into in the last 6 months has at least a small quantity of holsters and other accessories for the SR series so it isn't difficult to get everything you need to have fun at the range.

I hope this helps.

iamdb
February 27, 2012, 05:03 PM
The Glock has a proven 30 year track record while the SR has been around, what, 4 years now? Gen 1 glocks have a 30 year record. How long has the failure prone, multiple recall, gen 4 been around? Even though the recall wasn't officially called a recall, there were multiple "Guide Rod Trade In Programs" because the second revision of the guide rod still did not fix the issues.

excuse me for going with the one with a 3 decade track record of working and working well and not the one that happens to have won "gun of the year" three times because its the latest and greatest and the gun rags like it. Your excused bud. You are not a liar for preferring Glock. Your prior post was full of excrement. You might not have lied but you didn't really tell the truth. SR is not the latest polymer pistol out but, it may well be the greatest (I tease). In fact the SRc and gen 4 have about a 5 month difference in age. Notice the lack of awards for the latest :p. I never implied winning awards meant much. Never the less, you can always search the latest threads in the semi auto section and see which guns have been having issues lately. I do notice more "Perfection" problems than taurus and hi-point. But that probably means nothing.

tahunua001
February 27, 2012, 05:59 PM
IAMDB,
very well spoken, unless a person is considering a Gen 1 Glock, he is not getting a gun with a "proven 30 year track record". GEN 3 is going to be a gamble because you are going to be buying it used and you dont know how badly it's been used and abused by it's former owner and Gen 4 has been kicking Glock's slogan in the family jewels since they came out and only after this most recent recall have I heard people start praising their Gen 4s.

checkmyswag
February 27, 2012, 08:59 PM
The SR fits me so much better than the Glock. Now the glocks w the different back straps might fit me fine. I don't know. I like the SR a lot.

SwampYankee
February 27, 2012, 09:08 PM
The thing is, you never buy a new do-dad. You let other people buy it and work out the problems. Glock has been around for 30 years. Ruger, not being stupid, identified all the flaws and rectified them with the SR9. Then they ported it to the SR9c, the SR40 and the SR40c. Ruger took all the best things about the Glock and made it better. The copy-cats get to do it cheap and right, the first time. You may not like it but we're all buying generic drugs the day they hit the market...

jr24
February 27, 2012, 09:30 PM
Except at my facility we wait a few weeks/months since new generics usually cost more... Oh, wait, you're talking something about guns.

I can't speak for the SR40 other than to say its my next purchase for hand guns (well, a SR40c) but in comparison for their 9mm counterparts I would say that, for me, the SR9 series is superior. Fits my hands better, I like the trigger, sights, safties (well the thumb saftey anyway), more accurate, better recoil management and more pleasant to shoot. In several thousand (I think coming up on 3k) rounds I have had zero failures of any kind in my SR9c, so that's all the "reputation" or "reliablity" I personally need for a defensive firearm.

Military/Police/whatever usage and reputation is great and all that, but I only trust the guns through my own use and the SR9c passed.

These opinions are mine only, everyone has their own opinions and theories, so YMMV.

Walklightly
February 27, 2012, 11:00 PM
The SR is more narrow. Am I wrong?

Double Naught Spy
February 27, 2012, 11:44 PM
I even ditched my venerable g19 after running a case through my Ruger. Which has won handgun of the year award for the past 3 years in a row by industry insiders. For whatever that's worth

Apparently, not too much. While your SR9c was given the award by the industry insiders (The Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence, a 500-member group consisting of manufacturers, editors, writers, distributors and retailers from within the shooting industry) in 2010, they certainly did not pick that model in any other year.

Handgun of the year...
2011 Ruger LC9
2010 Ruger SR9c
2009 Ruger LCR
2008 Ruger LCP
2007 S&W M&P 45

See list for all years here...
http://www.shootingindustry.com/handgun-of-the-year-award/

Also, Handgun of the Year doesn't mean squat about reliability. The award is given out based on being/having an innovative model, caliber or design characteristics.

Will Beararms
February 28, 2012, 12:49 AM
Boy this one is starting to get fun---almost as good as the 9mm vs. .40 debate.

TunnelRat
February 28, 2012, 01:21 AM
I would like to personally thank all the kind people who will likely get this thread locked because they can't be civil and check their egos at the door.

Will Beararms
February 28, 2012, 01:37 AM
Either way you go, you will be fine. Pick the one that you shoot the best and go with it. Ruger is good about filling store shelves with there magazines. Glock does the same thing.

iamdb
February 28, 2012, 08:58 AM
they certainly did not pick that model in any other year.
You are correct sir

http://www.ruger.com/corporate/news/2010-07-28.html
Ruger® SR9c™ Named 2010 "Handgun of the Year"
July 28, 2010
Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. (NYSE: RGR), is proud to announce that a Ruger® handgun has been named the Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence "Handgun of the Year" for the third straight year. The Ruger SR9c™, the first line extension in the SR9® striker-fired pistol, is the compact version of one of the slimmest and most ergonomic 9mm pistols on the market today.

Will Beararms
February 28, 2012, 09:21 AM
You know choosing a Ruger SR over a Glock is like choosing a Ford Fusion over a Honda Accord. Chances are you will have a good, dependable car but despite what the salesman tells you in the back of your mind each day as you drive it, you will always thing to yourself: " I could have had an Accord."

iamdb
February 28, 2012, 10:12 AM
I would think to myself, what happened to my truck?

SwampYankee
February 28, 2012, 01:44 PM
I would like to personally thank all the kind people who will likely get this thread locked because they can't be civil and check their egos at the door.

This conversation has been incredibly polite. Not even a single warning from the mods, I'm not sure what you are seeing that warrants a lock. There have been some very well argued points, all of merit. No name calling, no ego.

they certainly did not pick that model in any other year.

That is true, but they pick a different gun every year! Of course you won't see it in another year... I don't put much stock in "Handgun of the Year" (especially when they are putting the Smith Sigma on the list), but Ruger has been creative, nonetheless. How do you even pick a "Handgun of the Year"? The list is so ridiculous, they go from the Rugers of the last 4 years (which all sit in similar classes) to the Smith 460!? And the Smith 500?! And the Ruger .480?! These guns are just all so different, it makes no sense.

mooner
February 28, 2012, 02:59 PM
I am not sure what it would mean if I thought "I could have had an Accord". Very strange comparison indeed.

MrDontPlay
February 28, 2012, 03:08 PM
You know choosing a Ruger SR over a Glock is like choosing a Ford Fusion over a Honda Accord. Chances are you will have a good, dependable car but despite what the salesman tells you in the back of your mind each day as you drive it, you will always thing to yourself: " I could have had an Accord."

Not once. And wouldn't the glock be more comparable to a scion xb?

Will Beararms
February 28, 2012, 04:02 PM
I am in my 20th year as an outside salesman using my own vehicle and then getting reimbursed by my employer. I can tell you without even a shadow of a doubt, for the money and fuel efficiency, there is no better car to cover a multi-state sales territory with than the Honda Accord. I buy them used with 20 to 30 thousand miles on them and then drive then another 150K to 200K miles doing nothing more than regular maintenance and new tires and shocks and at Hwy. MPG of 32 plus. When it comes to providing your own vehicle for serious sales travel, I have the hat, cap, pin, coffee mug, mouse pad, free night's stay, T-shirt and then some.

When you drive an Accord you know you are taken care of. I cannot say the same for the 3 Ford Expeditions, 1 Ford F150, 1 Volvo S-60, 2 Ford Windstars or 1 Ford Ranger I have owned. Your mileage may vary.

I rank Glocks up there with my Honda.

iamdb
February 28, 2012, 04:38 PM
Not once. And wouldn't the glock be more comparable to a scion xb? lmao. took me a minute to understand the genius of that statement.

batmann
February 28, 2012, 04:52 PM
Funny, just got back the range and put about 300 elcheapo rounds through my Glock 22. I was anything but a Glock guy until I did a lot of research, talked to a lot of pistol owners, who's opinion I trust, and finally broke down and bought one. My be the best pistol ever IMHO. It feeds, shoots and ejects anything I feed it and is 100% reliable. They may ugly, they may not feel as good as some in the hand, but they are simple, light and they just plain work and there is no other pistol I would trust (at this time) in a SD or HD.
I have added a Streamlight TLR-3 weapons light to mine. It is the smallest of the Streamlight TR series and adds little weight and does not affect the balance.

TunnelRat
February 28, 2012, 04:58 PM
My be the best pistol ever IMHO. It feeds, shoots and ejects anything I feed it and is 100% reliable.

I can say the same about any of the handguns I own, the exception being some .22s. While I agree Glocks are reliable, so are many others. The idea that Glock is the only reliable semi-auto is a relic of the past. I have owned Glocks, XDs, M&Ps, SIGs, FNXs, etc. and not one of them has choked on an any ammo type I fed them. In fact the only gun I have owned that has had consistent problems was a recent Glock 19 that spit brass into my forehead. YMMV.

As for Hondas, the same goes. There are plenty of reliable cars out there. In fact that analogy goes right to my point. Glock, like Honda, can live off of its reputation, which yes they established through many years of use. That doesn't mean there aren't other cars out there that will be as reliable. YMMV.

Will Beararms
February 28, 2012, 06:02 PM
Well Put Tunnel. I love my Hondas, Glocks and Ford Expeditions but I am also fond of stirring the pot within the bounds of good taste and reason and not beyond the patience of the moderators. :D

I will grant you there are many good pistols out there. In the same breath I will tell you at one time or another and with enough rounds through them, they will all crap out.

TunnelRat
February 28, 2012, 09:42 PM
In the same breath I will tell you at one time or another and with enough rounds through them, they will all crap out.

That is the truest fact of all.

ESI Agent
February 28, 2012, 10:27 PM
I have both, and I will say I like shooting my SR40 more then my Glock 40. I just feels much better in both the grip and recoil. The Glocks been around longer but it also has a know reputation for K-booms. It is what it is.:cool:

kylen
February 28, 2012, 11:46 PM
I would get the Ruger SR40, however the choice is yours.

Will Beararms
February 29, 2012, 01:02 AM
The chamber in a .40 caliber Glock is still loose but not as loose as when they first started making them. Additionally, the ammo makers have beefed up the cartridge design in key areas.

SwampYankee
February 29, 2012, 05:31 AM
Additionally, the ammo makers have beefed up the cartridge design in key areas.

I've never heard this. Do you have a specific reference? I was under the impression that the problem was generally an issue with reloaded cases. It seems that the amount of brass you would need to add to the case to prevent failure of an unsupported case at 35K psi would be untenable (both expensive and decrease the amount of available volume, thereby raising pressure even more).

Sarge
February 29, 2012, 10:01 AM
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/CaseSupport2-1.jpg

I need to get a pic of the SR40C's barrel, alongside my 2011 issue G22.

iamdb
February 29, 2012, 11:41 AM
Wow. That's an excellent picture. Big difference in the '98 chamber.

Will Beararms
February 29, 2012, 12:25 PM
In 1995 one major ammo maker redesigned the case web area. Our respect to the moderators and owners of this forum, I will not mention that company or post any links but if you Gewgule .40 Smith and Wesson, you will be directed to a Weekeepeedyuh article that explains this further.

There are some thoughts that the weaker recoil springs may have caused some polymer pistols to fire out of battery. I recently purchased a polymer pistol with an enhanced recoil spring assembly. I cannot prove this but I believe this particular new generation of pistol was designed around large LEO contracts for .40 caliber semi-autos.

ScotchMan
February 29, 2012, 01:22 PM
The guns feel different, pick the one thats most comfortable. They are equally reliable and accurate. If you want to spend lots of money with aftermarket toys, get the Glock. If you want the manual safety, get the Ruger. If you think the Glock is uglier than Hillary, get the Ruger.

11. both companies stand by their products 100% and have good customer service so this is a tie.

I'd tend to give this to Ruger by a lot. I've never owned a Glock (and doubt I will), but I've never heard anyone singing the praises of Glock support. That seems to be the arena of Ruger and S&W, and I can personally confirm Ruger's excellence here.

SwampYankee
February 29, 2012, 05:51 PM
Gewgule .40 Smith and Wesson, you will be directed to a Weekeepeedyuh article that explains this further

I just did that. But all I get is the following:

In late 1995, Federal Cartridge of Anoka, Minnesota undertook a redesign of their .40 S&W cartridge case to strengthen internally the area of the case web. While no one at Federal will address this for the record, it has been suggested that this move was dictated by the popularity of the .40 S&W Glocks, and Federal's attempt to hedge against head/web ruptures with any of their .40 S&W ammunition.

So Federal will not acknowledge it and it is from Wikipedia, an unreferenced and publicly editable source? Thats no source at all. Will they admit they did it or will they just not explain why?

It goes on to say that:

Federal .40 S&W rounds which may contain suspect casings may be identified as follows: Lot number consists of 10 characters (mostly numbers). In the 7th position, there may be a number or a letter. If there is a number in that position, the ammo was manufactured with the old style (possibly defective) brass. If it contains the letter Y (1995) or R (1996), the ammo has the redesigned casing and should be okay. If the letter H appears, then check the next three digits (the last three in the lot number). Ammo lot numbers H244 or below have the old style casings. Lots H245 and above have the new style casings.
This information was provided by Federal Cartridge Company in September 1996.

So Federal will say the brass was "defective" but they will not admit that there was a design change or that it was the result of a defective design?

So how about Winchester, Blazer, Fiocchi, Remington, etc? Did they change their brass designs?

Looking at the Glock chambers Sarge posted, I suspect Glock solved the problem, not the ammo manufacturers.

I would avoid using Wikipedia as the source of all knowledge....

Will Beararms
February 29, 2012, 11:07 PM
I have specific documentation that will not be published for ethical and moral reasons that clearly proves the engineering staff at three of the major ammunition manufacturers in our great nation are in a continuous state of improvement. In addition, I am under the auspices of legally binding non-disclosure agreements.

I assure you there have been design changes in the .40 cartridge itself as well as design changes at Glock. As I said there are design changes constantly with all calibers and gauges at ammunition manufacturers. Part of my job entails dealing with these entities and their engineering staff directly.

Weekeepedyuh is like anything else, it bears scrutiny. I for one will not discount it entirely.

dsb1829
February 29, 2012, 11:09 PM
I just had this debate. It is very hard to pass up the Ruger SR40, NIB @ under $400. I however do not like the Ruger safeties out the wazoo approach to firearms design. It makes the lawyers and politicians happy, at the expense of us the consumer and user. The MK III and 22/45 field strip is a thing to behold with the inserting and removing of mags to work around the mag disconnect.

Since the gun was to be my IDPA and other competition gun, purpose built, I did not want to have something with superfluous or redundant safeties. Call me kookie. I picked up a very clean Glock 22 for about $400 by the time I tacked on an extra mag. Then I turned around an put $160 into an aftermarket barrel in order to shoot lead :eek:. Boy, that Ruger was looking pretty good in comparison.

In the end the Glock, IMO, is better suited to competition shooting due to a lesser battery of arms. The less you have to keep track of the better. I believe that to be doubly true in a life/death situation where you would have to pull a ccw for protection. Also for game scenarios the only ways to use a gun with a mag disconnect are to disable it or to keep an empty on you in order to drop the hammer and clear the weapon post firing. Having a disabled safety is a no-no WRT legalities should it be used for defense.

Other item I think is better on the Glock is the stock trigger. I have only dry fired the SR, but it was not as intuitive or natural to me.

SwampYankee
March 1, 2012, 05:29 AM
In addition, I am under the auspices of legally binding non-disclosure agreements. I assure you there have been design changes in the .40 cartridge itself as well as design changes at Glock.

That may all be true. Unfortunately, I tend to be skeptical of people who say, "believe me because I said so and by the way, I'd have to kill you if I told you what I know". The internet is full of mall ninja's and people who go a long way to be someone else. I am not impugning your credibility but the internet does not lend people credibility- we're all just faceless names. I have no doubt that every ammo manufacturer is constantly improving their processes but without documentation, any specifics are all just anecdote and hearsay.

Glock has pretty obviously made some changes, the proof is in the photo. If someone had some pre-95 ammo available, we could disassemble it, cross-section it and takes some pictures and measurements. Short of that and an admission that ammo was poorly designed and resulted in a string of detonations, I'm not sure what more can be said.

Sarge
March 1, 2012, 06:16 AM
Ammo manufacturers can tweak their products 'til their noses bleed, but two things are dead certain.

One, that whatever they produce has to meet SAAMI specs and TWO, changes not reflected in those specs are irrelevant to the rest of us.

SAAMI specs are not classified information. Smoke and mirrors, folks.

Will Beararms
March 1, 2012, 09:41 AM
Glock proofs it's barrels to over 100% of the specs they adhere to or PlouffeDaddy is a liar---one of the two. He just finished an armorer's class for Glock.

I don't care whether you believe me or not. At least three ammo makers, all major manufacturers, keep my company busy looking for new ways to do things better. They all have several engineers working on multiple projects at any given time. I have spent my life as an industrial salesman in the chemical field---20 years. I don't care what other nameless people here post, my success has been tied to my credibility and if what posted earlier wasn't true, I would not have posted it.


Both the Ruger and the Glock are great weapons. I would feel very comfortable with either. Both will have problems. Both companies will take care of you. Glocks have had issues recently with later Gen. 3 and current Gen. 4 models. They are working through it. Their brilliance in stamping part numbers on critical components, has helped to more closely isolate, monitor and remedy the issues. Considering the volume of Glocks out there versus the problems they have had, I would say Glock has done a good job overall.

KBP
March 1, 2012, 09:58 AM
Wow! When did Honda start making pistols? :D

Will Beararms
March 1, 2012, 10:00 AM
Love my Honda Pistols

SwampYankee
March 1, 2012, 10:25 AM
I did not mean to offend you. And I am not saying I do not believe you. I do, however, find your claim skeptical.

Anyone can say anything on a forum. And people do all the time. You are a faceless name, as we all are, no matter what we each believe to be correct. Unless you can provide real-world credentials, you have not credentials.

Your contention is that 3 cartridge manufacturers have changed their .40 S&W specs to prevent bursting cases. But none of them have published this, no one can provide a company reference and I cannot find a legal action against any cartridge company regarding the .40 S&W- which would suggest a possible settlement and a resolution, possibly through engineering changes.

It would seem to me that if Federal had improved their cartridges above and beyond SAAMI specifications, would that not be a selling point? Something to put on the box? A way to increase market share? Beat out competition?

If however, this was not actually done, a salesman claiming such modifications were made but then stating he could not confirm it officially because of a nondisclosure agreement would be another way to sell a product....

Will Beararms
March 1, 2012, 12:43 PM
I did not mean to offend you. And I am not saying I do not believe you. I do, however, find your claim skeptical.


No offense taken here and no need for apologies. The above statement is ambiguous. Either you believe me or you don't

plouffedaddy
March 1, 2012, 01:23 PM
:eek: I sure hope I'm not a liar! I'm just repeating what I was told by Glock...

That said, Glock used to actually put a special stamp on their barrels to show that they were proofed at 130% of standard SAMI specs for all calibers but they decided doing so (putting the mark on the barrel) wasn't necessary and was an added cost so they stopped putting it there. Incidently, if you have one with the mark, it's a collectors item so hold on to it...

SwampYankee
March 1, 2012, 01:36 PM
I am reserving judgement. I am not saying you're information is incorrect, but being skeptical means that I have some level of doubt as to your claims. They may or may not be correct, certainly you believe they are, but I have no independent way to verify them.

I do not see the world in black and white, I would not say that I believe you absolutely or do not believe you absolutely. I need more evidence.

Will Beararms
March 1, 2012, 02:00 PM
I get it. You can't be too careful. Here are some guidelines you may want to follow to make life more enjoyable.

Black Angus Beef - Is it really Black Angus or is it Santa Gertrudis or Brahma? I would advise you Swamp to require documentation from the store manager before buying.

No Ethanol Gas - Here again Swamp, for peace of mind, you should require the station manager to provide the MSDS and a Batch-Specific Material Test Report for the gas you pump into your vehicle.

Ammo - It would also be a good idea to view the test reports for each lot number of ammo you purchase. You might also want to get proof of what firearm was used for the testing. I would advise measuring the barrel length with precision instruments. If this data cannot be provided, how do we know said ammo is really in Saami specifications?

Certs with retsyn - Swamp before purchasing Certs breath mints if I were you I would require documentation proving there is a substance known as retsyn, that retsyn really works and I would require a chemical analysis verifying there is in fact retsyn in certs.

Mattress Tags - Is it truly a crime to rip the tag off of a mattress? I would advise you contact your attorney general to make sure it is really illegal. I would demand notarized copies of all statutes pertaining to this.

TunnelRat
March 1, 2012, 02:17 PM
I get it. You can't be too careful. Here are some guidelines you may want to follow to make life more enjoyable.

Black Angus Beef - Is it really Black Angus or is it Santa Gertrudis or Brahma? I would advise you Swamp to require documentation from the store manager before buying.

No Ethanol Gas - Here again Swamp, for peace of mind, you should require the station manager to provide the MSDS and a Batch-Specific Material Test Report for the gas you pump into your vehicle.

Ammo - It would also be a good idea to view the test reports for each lot number of ammo you purchase. You might also want to get proof of what firearm was used for the testing. I would advise measuring the barrel length with precision instruments. If this data cannot be provided, how do we know said ammo is really in Saami specifications?

Certs with retsyn - Swamp before purchasing Certs breath mints if I were you I would require documentation proving there is a substance known as retsyn, that retsyn really works and I would require a chemical analysis verifying there is in fact retsyn in certs.

Mattress Tags - Is it truly a crime to rip the tag off of a mattress? I would advise you contact your attorney general to make sure it is really illegal. I would demand notarized copies of all statutes pertaining to this.

How about we all step back and take 5?:D

Will Beararms
March 1, 2012, 03:33 PM
I here ya. I do think you will be well served with either option. For every one dollar I have spent on a Ruger, I have gotten two dollars of value in return.

SwampYankee
March 1, 2012, 04:35 PM
I get it. You can't be too careful. Here are some guidelines you may want to follow to make life more enjoyable.

Black Angus Beef - Is it really Black Angus or is it Santa Gertrudis or Brahma? I would advise you Swamp to require documentation from the store manager before buying.

No Ethanol Gas - Here again Swamp, for peace of mind, you should require the station manager to provide the MSDS and a Batch-Specific Material Test Report for the gas you pump into your vehicle.

Ammo - It would also be a good idea to view the test reports for each lot number of ammo you purchase. You might also want to get proof of what firearm was used for the testing. I would advise measuring the barrel length with precision instruments. If this data cannot be provided, how do we know said ammo is really in Saami specifications?

Certs with retsyn - Swamp before purchasing Certs breath mints if I were you I would require documentation proving there is a substance known as retsyn, that retsyn really works and I would require a chemical analysis verifying there is in fact retsyn in certs.

Mattress Tags - Is it truly a crime to rip the tag off of a mattress? I would advise you contact your attorney general to make sure it is really illegal. I would demand notarized copies of all statutes pertaining to this.

Based on that silliness, I'm pretty sure you don't get it.

Sarge
March 1, 2012, 08:28 PM
Will, I wasn't trying to poke you in the eye with post #66. Just stating what I recognize as easily read tea leaves, regarding cartridge cases and specs.

iamdb
March 1, 2012, 08:42 PM
I appreciated the humor in it. Even if he likes glocks and honda's.:D

I think over the years it has been proven glocks vs. (insert quality made pistol here) are about the same. Once upon a time, Glock was top dog of the poly semi. That is no longer the case. Now it comes down to preference. Smith, Springfield, Glock, Ruger, HK, Kahr, etc. are all about as good as any production firearms has ever been. Ergo's, availability of accessories, shootability, and faith are/is, now the dividing line. Not reliability.

Crazy Carl
March 1, 2012, 09:21 PM
I really like the Ruger SR9c & shoot it well, but I love the G26 & shoot it better. I am/was a Glock hater & really wanted to like the Ruger better, but the G26 just works for me, so that's what I bought.

Honestly, I would try to shoot 'em both before deciding. Me, personally? I despise the .40S&W. Too snappy/bark-y/histrionic for what it delivers. Different strokes for different folks, tho, right?

I will say the G22 is a brick. I've got big hands & the G22 felt like gripping a 2x4. Never shot a SR40, but would likely prefer the Ruger over the Glock in that respect.

I don't get the "safety hate", tho. Really? Is a simple swipe of the thumb really too much to learn/practice/incorporate?

Sarge
March 1, 2012, 11:09 PM
I think it's more a matter of sticking to one manual of arms, Carl. I don't entirely disagree with that thinking either.

Will Beararms
March 1, 2012, 11:50 PM
My apologies to all including Swamp and Tunnel for hijacking this thread. The thread was about Tunnels choices not my rants.

This week has been a tough one. I acted out here. I had my oldest son committed for substance abuse and those you who are LE Officers know the places the court remands these cases to are not nice.

To make matters worse, my son fought the court officers when they came to our house. It was not pretty but something that needed to happen. The fact that he resisted combined with being 8 days shy of 18 and being 6'-3", 230lbs with meat cleaver hands landed him in the adult section.

So here was a blonde headed blue eyed kid in a holding room with about 7 felons who had feigned suicide or murder attempts to keep from being jailed for arraignment of crimes along with a host of schizophrenics, meth heads, crack addicts and one guy who drew pictures of Spider Man for hours on end.

He made it through the ordeal untouched physically anyway and he told me he had an epiphany while being evaluated. The officers who picked him up were very patient and he avoided any charges. I believe he's is starting to think a little more clearly now. He still has a long row to hoe.

Well there I went again with the hijacking. Sorry again folks.

KBP
March 2, 2012, 12:22 AM
This is a very good thread in that EVERYONES input is useful since just about all the features of both pistols are discussed. The bottom line is that the choice is a personal preference based on what things are important to you! You are now aware of the positive and if any negative things about each pistol and make a decision based on what is important to you. Threads like this one helped me decide on what pistol to buy! Thanks to all! (no, I'm not going to tell you what pistol I bought) Someday, I hope to have both!:D

iamdb
March 2, 2012, 01:00 AM
no, I'm not going to tell you what pistol I boughtYour sadistic. lol

Will - Hang in there bud. Tough times don't last.

plouffedaddy
March 2, 2012, 07:40 AM
Will---good luck brother. He's young enough that he can still overcome it...

Now why can't we find out which pistol was purchased :(????

Will Beararms
March 2, 2012, 08:18 AM
What if he went off the Glock or Ruger reservation? Does he have a you tube channel? Does he post on other sites?

MrDontPlay
March 2, 2012, 10:37 AM
I think that even if the thread was titled "sr40 or m&p" or "sr40 or xdm" or "buckmark or 22/45," glock people would still be suggesting the glock. Thus tells me that often they don't really think about the question and evaluate the other guns.

Will Beararms
March 2, 2012, 10:44 AM
I do. I left Glockland and came back. NO---they are not perfect. YES there are better choices out there but life is a balancing act. All things considered, they work for me. I can find no pistol for the money that does what I want it to do.

That said, my experiences with Ruger from the P90 to the 22/45 to the Ruger No. 1 30-06 to the 10/22 to the P97 have been superb.

AARguy
July 17, 2012, 12:32 PM
I recently decided to buy another 40cal. I spent a lot of time talking to experts at gun shops and just plain shooters. I liked the Ruger SR40c as soon as I saw it, but heard rumors that it had reliability problems. I looked at H&K, but I went through years of working with the military's XM 25/29/8 and it left a bad taste in my mouth about H&K. Unreasoned emotional bias? Perhaps. But perception is everything.

I looked and Glock and found that there is a problem for reloaders. Glocks seem to have a problem with chambering and cause a unique bulge in the brass. Extra care must be taken during resizing. Physics being physics, this also tells me that an inordinant amount of energy is lost in the deformation which might be used to get the round downrange. I first heard this from an experienced shooter at one gun shop. When I inquired at another gun shop the service guy said he had never heard of such a Glock problem. One of his colleagues came over and said, yes, there is such a problem unique to 40cal Glocks. I took Glock off my short list.

So then I looked at Sig's. I couldn't really identify what justified the high cost. Nice weapon. But I learned long ago not to buy Cadillacs just because of the name,

When one gun dealer told me he sold more Rugers than any other type of weapon and had the lowest return for problems rate, three cutomers overheard and came over to rave about their Rugers. I bought the SR40c. We'll see how it works out...

sheepman
July 17, 2012, 03:10 PM
Shoot both and pick the one you like best. They are both about equal in quality and customer service support. I have owned and shot most models and calibers of Glock but only have owned a SR9C. The Ruger SR series looks a lot like a Glock when you look at the internal works. The Ruger was softer shooting than a Glock of the same caliber but I did not like the firing pin block (mag safety) or the way the manual safety worked. The Glock drop safety is a shelf and automatically locks the striker when the trigger is forward, the Ruger safety is manually pushed up to do the same thing in the same location. :D

I have spent a lot of time and money looking for the perfect hand gun, still have not found it. :mad:

batmann
July 17, 2012, 05:40 PM
I like Ruger revolvers, but have never warmed up to the SR 9/40 series because of a couple of 'features' I don't care for. One is the loaded chamber indicator, sticks out the top of the slide and has the potential to hang up in a holster (I said potential) and I don't care for the mag safety. That said, by all that I have heard, they are reliable and that is the very first thing I consider in a weapon that may have to be used in self defense.
The same choice is one I made a couple of years ago and I went with a Gen 3Glock 22 and it has been 100% for over a 1000 rounds. A couple of things came into play when I made that choice. Cost of mags, holsters and proven track record. The SR may be a great choice, but mine was a Glock when all was said and done.
One other choice to consider wold be a S&W M&P. Not trying to muddy the waters, but the cost of all three will be about the same when you factor everything in.