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kraigwy
February 14, 2012, 06:46 PM
Ref the other post about the negligent discharge that many fault the Serpa holster got me to try and make videos showing that its the shooter not the holster.

When using the Serpa holster, you trigger finger naturally falls straight down the side of the holster. As you start to pull the firearm from the holster, the finger slides along the release allowing the gun to come free. The finger continues to follow the holster, then the gun as it leaves the holster, naturally falling along the slide or just under the cylinder of a revolver.

This shows the Serpa doesn't "force" your finger in the trigger guard, if the finger does enter the guard, its the shooter not the holster.

The first video shows the Beretta 92FS, the second a J frame revolver.

I don't have a Serpa for the 1911, but if need be, I'll buy one and make another video showing the same thing.

Its not the holster, its the shooter.

Sorry for the poor quality of the video, its my first attempt.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/Serpa%20and%20Beretta%2092FS.AVI

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/Serpa%20and%20revolver.AVI

jhenry
February 14, 2012, 07:42 PM
I agree.

It's not like nobody blasted holes in their own limbs prior to the Serpa. They did, and they did it the same old way, by getting on the trigger before getting on the target.

FM12
February 14, 2012, 10:34 PM
If you cant operate the holster, you surely don't need to be operating a handgun! I'm thinking the NDs are from a handgun with a "safe-action" manual of arms.;)

wayneinFL
February 15, 2012, 12:28 AM
If you cant operate the holster, you surely don't need to be operating a handgun!

Funny, because I've been using handguns for years without shooting myself in the foot, and I can't operate the holster. Like I said, my hand just doesn't fit the darned thing and I can't push the button on the 1911 holster reliably without poking at it with my fingertip. The Serpa for the Glock works just like it shows in the video. I loved the Glock holster, and that's why I bought the holster for the 1911. I'd like a retention holster for a 1911 that doesn't require a thumb break. Just didn't work for me.

Kraig, I only have one question about the video- What is all that white crap on the ground?

PADefenseTrainer
February 15, 2012, 07:09 AM
I've never had a problem with the Serpa. But there are issues with plastic manufacturing.

Maybe the mold for the 1911 holster is flawed.

kraigwy, would you mind getting one to try it out? I'd be curious to see it.

By the way, thanks for taking the initiative on the videos.

MemphisJim
February 15, 2012, 04:20 PM
I have Serpas for a couple of my Sigs (228/229 & 220) and I just don't see what the fuss is about if one is operating the holster release properly. Without exception, my trigger finger is along the slide when the firearm is drawn.

old bear
February 15, 2012, 06:26 PM
You're RIGHT, it is the shooter not the holster.

Thanks for taking the time to run the tests and post the results...

PawPaw
February 15, 2012, 07:48 PM
I didn't know that there was any question that an ND is always, undeniably, the fault of the shooter. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch. Blaming equipment is lame.

wayneinFL
February 15, 2012, 09:44 PM
I agree that your finger shouldn't be in the trigger guard until you're engaging a target. It should be up on the frame. When I do this with the small frame Glock Serpa, the large frame Glock Serpa, or the Sig P220 Serpa, the gun slips out like a wet bar of soap in the shower. Very slick. Best thing since sliced bread, and I mean that sincerely.

The 1911 Serpa does not work that well for me. I have to consciously push on the release. Moreover, I have to clear the rest of the finger from the holster to do it, and place pressure with my fingertip against the release. When the gun clears the slide, my finger is bent, placing pressure against the frame. On a nice, slick finish, my finger could slip off the frame into the trigger guard. Does that explain it a little bit better?

I wish I had the holster and 1911 here to show you what I'm trying to explain. I'm out of town at the moment.

I'm not "blaming the equipment", which I agree is "lame", but I'm not blaming the shooter (me) either. My hand just doesn't fit the thing.

Does somebody want to try it? It's been sitting in a drawer at my house for 6 months. It might work very well for you. PM me with an address, and I'll send it out in a couple of weeks when I get home.

MTT TL
February 15, 2012, 10:04 PM
I guess you have time to burn. The large egos in the gun world will never be convinced that they screwed up. It is easier to blame the equipment. I recall all the cops shooting themselves in the legs when Glocks first came out. Still happens a bit I think.

The gun was clearly at fault and not carelessness or lack of training.

:rolleyes:

Nanuk
February 15, 2012, 10:08 PM
That's what I have always said. Used one for years on duty and always came out with my finger on the frame of my H&K.

wayneinFL
February 15, 2012, 10:27 PM
That proves it. I must be imagining the whole damned thing. The 1911 holster works, hands down. Even though none of you can actually say that you have that holster.

It must be that my "ego" gets in the way of the release when I use a 1911, but not with a 8 different Glocks or a Sig P220. Must be that the 1911 that makes me a foot taller. :rolleyes:

You know, I've tried to be reasonable and kind about this. I even offered the holster to you guys. For free. But ya'll are calling me out on my ego? Seriously? You've never even met me.

This is ridiculous. I have better things to do with my time. Have a good night.

kraigwy
February 15, 2012, 10:46 PM
Wayne, I said before, and I'll say it again, I will buy a Serpa for my 1911 and give it a try, but I have to wait until I get to a bigger town, this little berg dosn't have anything that wouls sell any holster.

Don't need one, but I'll buy one, give it a shot, whether it works or not I'll post a video.

jgcoastie
February 16, 2012, 01:58 AM
I'm not "blaming the equipment", which I agree is "lame", but I'm not blaming the shooter (me) either. My hand just doesn't fit the thing.
The 1911 Serpa does not work that well for me. I have to consciously push on the release. Emphasis mine in both quotes.

Then don't use it.

Most of us have a drawer or two full of accessories we thought would be great in the store, but they didn't live up to our expectations once we got home or to the range with them. It happens. It's not anyone's fault, it's not the accessory's fault. It's just one of those kinds of things that doesn't always work out.

The fact that you've recognized that the SERPA 1911 holster doesn't work for you is good. The fact that you won't carry it is great, one less likely ND in the world.

That proves it. I must be imagining the whole damned thing. The 1911 holster works, hands down. Even though none of you can actually say that you have that holster.

It must be that my "ego" gets in the way of the release when I use a 1911, but not with a 8 different Glocks or a Sig P220. Must be that the 1911 that makes me a foot taller.

You know, I've tried to be reasonable and kind about this. I even offered the holster to you guys. For free. But ya'll are calling me out on my ego? Seriously? You've never even met me.

This is ridiculous. I have better things to do with my time. Have a good night.

I can't imagine why you didn't get no less than 1000 requests to try your holster in the 43 minutes between your offer to loan the holster and the childish rant you posted above... :rolleyes:

I read and re-read MTT TL's post and I can't find any shred of him specifically mentioning you in it. It appears to me that his post was commenting on the general "blame game" in the gun world on SERPA holsters single-handedly causing ND's, much as the blame game against Glocks when they first came out.

I've owned sevreal SERPA holsters, including the 1911 holster in question. Mine works perfectly for me. That does not mean that it will work perfectly for you. That's why there are options in the world.

As far as you wanting a non-thumb-break holster for your 1911, try the Safariland ALS or SLS series of holsters on for size. IIRC, Blade-Tech and FOBUS have retention holsters similar to the design of the SERPA. You might like them, you might not. Worth a shot.

wayneinFL
February 16, 2012, 03:18 AM
I read and re-read MTT TL's post and I can't find any shred of him specifically mentioning you in it. It appears to me that his post was commenting on the general "blame game" in the gun world on SERPA holsters single-handedly causing ND's, much as the blame game against Glocks when they first came out.

Re-reading it, I see I took it the wrong way, it was not addressed to me. I retract my comments. That was uncalled for.

I've been in a generally grumpy mood today. I apologize.

The Real Wyatt
February 16, 2012, 12:56 PM
I carry a full-size 1911 in a Serpa holster every day. I practice dawing and firing at least 100 times per week. I've never had a problem. I've never found my trigger finger inside the triger guard unintentionally. Based solely on my own experience I can only conclude it's the shooter, not the equipment. Your mileage may vary.

jgcoastie
February 16, 2012, 01:28 PM
I've been in a generally grumpy mood today. I apologize.

No worries. Normally, I wouldn't have said anything, but there's been an increase in similar posts by junior members and I feel like those of us that have been around TFL for a while should self-police and lead by example. The more we do those two things, the less the mods have to worry about.

And we've all had them kind o' days. Hope it turns around for you. ;)

Sefner
February 16, 2012, 01:45 PM
I have the 1911 SERPA holster. When you draw it indexes the finger below the slide but above the trigger guard. Right where the take-down/slidestop pin is

MTT TL
February 16, 2012, 01:56 PM
I read and re-read MTT TL's post and I can't find any shred of him specifically mentioning you in it. It appears to me that his post was commenting on the general "blame game" in the gun world on SERPA holsters single-handedly causing ND's, much as the blame game against Glocks when they first came out.

While I had no particular person in mind that attitude was what I was posting about. For the record I have Serpa's for my compact and full size 1911s, G22 and Beretta 92. I carried the Beretta for three solid years in a combat zones using it on the range more times than I could count and drawing a handful of times when I needed it for other reasons. Carried condition one every day and never shot myself in the foot even one time.

I carry the compact 1911 most of the time when I CC. A few years now. Still have not shot myself with it either. No NDs to date for any of those. Weapon was always ready when I needed it, never had the holster button lock up on me or get jammed with crap. Of course I checked it every day too. Before and after leaving the wire when I lived inside the wire.

So it works for me.

If it does not for you, don't use it. Confidence in your gear is nearly as important as anything else in the shooting world. Preaching that using it will cause you to have an ND is a bad sell however. This is not exactly the first video coming out on this issue.

wun_8_seven
February 22, 2012, 09:57 PM
I took a class in arizona using a serpa holster and it end up with enough sand and grit in it that it would not release the gun. Had to wash holster with gun still in it with a hose to finally release the gun. I'll never use one again

JohnKSa
February 23, 2012, 12:22 AM
I feel like those of us that have been around TFL for a while should self-police and lead by example.The forum is what the members make it. The mods can try to keep the peace, but we're hugely outnumbered. Ultimately it is the members who determine whether this will be a place that informs and entertains or one that irritates and misdirects.

Ben Towe
February 23, 2012, 08:44 PM
My dislike for Serpa has nothing to do with ND. It has to do with the gun hanging in the holster. If you like them and want to use them, by all means, do so. But regardless of whether your's is the greatest thing since repeating arms, reads you bedtime stories, and fetches you cold brewskies from the fridge, you won't catch me recommending one to anyone;).

wayneinFL
February 23, 2012, 09:28 PM
I feel like those of us that have been around TFL for a while should self-police and lead by example.
The forum is what the members make it. The mods can try to keep the peace, but we're hugely outnumbered. Ultimately it is the members who determine whether this will be a place that informs and entertains or one that irritates and misdirects.

I agree with that wholeheartedly.

This used to be a very serious forum. It wasn't uncommon for experts like Masaad Ayoob to comment here. And one of things that led me to taking a hiatus was that things seemed to fall apart here a few years ago. Scenarios posted in T&T just got plain goofy. Behavior of forum members got a little heated sometimes, etc. I wasn't dissatisfied, so much as I just had better things to do.

So, after a little time away I stepped back in, became active, and what do I do? The exact same thing I've been complaining about. I got on here tired, misinterpreted a comment and just went overboard. Again, I apologize. And not just to the people in this thread, but to all the members of thefiringline.com, the people of SWAT magazine, Rich Lucibella, and any other interested parties.

Next time I get bent out of shape, I'll go to bed, sleep three or four hours and look at it again to see if it makes any sense.

rburch
February 24, 2012, 01:00 AM
I took a class in arizona using a serpa holster and it end up with enough sand and grit in it that it would not release the gun. Had to wash holster with gun still in it with a hose to finally release the gun. I'll never use one again

wun_8_seven, I know of 3 other people that had the same thing happen.

It doesn't seem to be a common thing, but if the right bit of rock or whatever gets in the mechanism in just the right way, it can stop it from releasing.

farmerboy
February 24, 2012, 01:49 AM
Ok holster I guess. I use one for a duty holster for a Glock 22 but for CC I like a Don Hume/ JIT Slide.

PADefenseTrainer
February 24, 2012, 04:53 AM
the greatest thing since repeating arms

That is absolutely ABSOLUTELY going to replace "sliced bread" in my list of pat phrases!

kraigwy
February 24, 2012, 10:31 AM
Guys, I'm not selling Serpa Holsters, sure I got a couple but I don't carry with one (I pocket carry).

The intent of the videos was safety, not selling holsters. I wanted to point out that one could draw from the Serpa without poking his finger in the trigger guard.

Murdock
February 25, 2012, 10:01 AM
The Serpa is what it is; no tool works for every purpose, otherwise we could perform every job with a hammer.

My opinion is that the Serpa is at its best when security is more important than speed.

It is not a rig for Bozos. Consider that in in use, the brain sends a GO! Contract NOW! signal to the trigger finger when the decision to present the weapon is made,and the lock is hit. The brain must next send an inhibition signal to the trigger finger to relax and extend after the release lock is hit, so that it remains outside of the trigger guard. During a dynamic critical incident this is very hard to ensure.

So is "operator error" to blame for NDs with the Serpa? Sure. No question. But empirical evidence shows us that the design can invite error on the part of the stressed/less experienced operator. If I were running a shooting school I would have to think hard about allowing them in my classes.

My own Serpa is reserved for situations where the pistol is secondary to the carbine, and I don't want to lose the pistol from its holster when my attention is on other stuff.

m&p45acp10+1
February 26, 2012, 10:21 AM
I do not own a Serpa though I have tried out quite a few of them in the gun stores, and guns shows. I can say that if your finger is hooked to presss the release you need to retrain. It does not take that much force to get the button to release. In fact the ones I tried laying my finger with a slight amout of pressure worked.

Then again some people should not be allowed to walk, and chew gum at the same time either.

AK103K
February 26, 2012, 12:18 PM
So is "operator error" to blame for NDs with the Serpa? Sure. No question. But empirical evidence shows us that the design can invite error on the part of the stressed/less experienced operator.
This, and in some part, the mechanical aspects of the holster are the points being I think are missed here as far as the holster goes.

When everything is done and/or working right, it doesnt appear to be much an issue (nothing ever is in a perfect world), but put stress, and a misstep or problem with the release into the mix, and things seem to degrade quickly.

For those who have one, what happens when you pull up slightly on the gun "before" you hit the release?

Have you included a sticky or stuck release malfunction drill into your practice?

Whats your next immediate and unconscious reaction when the gun isnt released when you expect it to?

While I agree, a lot of this probably is operator error when there is a problem, but it does seem that the holster can and has contributed to that in more than a few cases.

kraigwy
February 26, 2012, 01:04 PM
For those who have one, what happens when you pull up slightly on the gun "before" you hit the release?

Have you included a sticky or stuck release malfunction drill into your practice?

I had that problem when I first got my Serpa and started practicing with it.

The problem was, I was thinking about hitting the release button instead of just drawing the gun from the holster.

Under stress as in competition, I'm concentrating on hearing the buzzard of the shot timer, and figuring on which target I'm going to engage first, how I'm going to move to the next spot, etc etc,

So basically when I don't think about the button it comes right out of the holster as my trigger finger drags over the button. So I really don't see any difference under stress then when I'm using my other guns with a Fobus holster.

ATW525
February 26, 2012, 01:18 PM
From what I've seen in accounts of Serpa NDs, a fairly common theme is that the gun doesn't come out of the holster when expected. The flustered shooter who wanted his gun like two seconds ago, then goes to hit the release again and the ND happens. They may have done thousands of successful straight finger draws prior to the incident, but once things didn't go as expected, all that went out the window.

farmerboy
February 26, 2012, 02:58 PM
I believe the holster is great as far as secureing your weapon, getting a fast draw and everything else. If your STUPID and put your trigger finger in the guard on the trigger as the gun is being removed of course you could shoot yourself or someone else accidently. Same goes with any holster! The more you practice with this holster, the better youll be. Also same with other holsters. My only complaint with the Serpa is for a duty rig is that it rubs hard on my slide and gives a great deal of wear showing and I really wouldnt care except at my dept we have to buy our own guns. But right now I still use this holster daily and when I need my gun I believe I can have it out and available in 1 second without shooting myself!

orionengnr
February 26, 2012, 09:55 PM
Under stress as in competition, I'm concentrating on hearing the buzzard of the shot timer,
Wow, y'all have some really different rules for your competition...:D

nhsmoker
February 27, 2012, 07:35 PM
While I have never used the serpa I have though about trying one for my 1911.
I would have to think that most problems with peoples fingers going into the trigger guard come from one of two scenarios one being lack of practice or an even more likely scenario is from becoming complacent. I think sometimes when people do something enough times for long enough we tend to forget to be vigilant about what we are doing. That can be a bad thing when it comes to something where second chances may not be an option.

wayneinFL
February 29, 2012, 10:23 AM
Does somebody want to try it? It's been sitting in a drawer at my house for 6 months. It might work very well for you. PM me with an address, and I'll send it out in a couple of weeks when I get home.

FYI, the holster is betrothed to someone. As soon as I find it. It apparently was relegated from the holster drawer into... somewhere else.

Gbro
February 29, 2012, 08:59 PM
I have had my Serpa and blue 1911 for a week now and I very much prefer it over the Fobus holsters i have for my .45 auto's. The draw is very smooth and that is so much nicer than the Fobus retention. In fact a couple weeks ago I was doing some strong side inside the pickup draws and the Fobus was very difficult because of the angle it was in locked the gun in to where I had to open the door and lean part way out the door to get my pistol to release.
And for anyone concerned about someone stripping this Serpa off my belt, forget that! there are 3 hooks that make it so hard I am set on releasing my belt to remove the holster.
And It is wonderfully adjustable and rides higher for a much better concealment.
I have cut 1.5 inches from mine for my compact Para LDA 1911.
The Blue 1911 is very tight. I will have to do a little sanding.

Ruger556
March 1, 2012, 09:32 PM
The primary safety is the one between your ears...all else is secondary.

One should not have their trigger finger engaging the trigger except after assessing the situation and determining that they are indeed going to shoot.

Nnobby45
March 1, 2012, 09:44 PM
Farnum banned them from his class when he had reports that twigs or other debri had jammed the mechanism making it impossible to draw the pistol. I believe the reports came from combat zones.

Perhaps here, in a more sterile urban environment, those concerns aren't as great.

I have two, but will never use them.

jgcoastie
March 4, 2012, 08:58 PM
Farnum banned them from his class when he had reports that twigs or other debri had jammed the mechanism making it impossible to draw the pistol. I believe the reports came from combat zones.

Perhaps here, in a more sterile urban environment, those concerns aren't as great.

I have two, but will never use them.

I heard some of those same stories... It's plausible, not probable though. I have to believe that if something were to get stuck in the release/retention mechanism, I would've experienced it during my years climbing up and falling down just about every hill, mountain, valley, river, woods, brush, etc in Kodiak. There was a G20 or 1911 on my hip in a SERPA holster 100% of the time. Never one bit of disabling debris as many have claimed.

Following my excursions, there was often a considerable amount of dirt, twigs, leaves and other junk in and around the holster/gun. Never one issue.

Plausible, not probable.

PawPaw
March 10, 2012, 04:39 PM
I was at the range today and saw a Serpa for a 1911 in the pro shop. I picked it up and paid the guy. I've been wearing if for a couple of hours, and I agree that there is a learning curve, but probably not as steep as the learning curve on my Safariland 6360 (http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=6360). Still, a few practice draws and I feel comfortable with the holster. Not as comfortable as the old thumbreak pancake holster I've been carrying the 1911 in, but comfortable nonetheless. I can see how a pistolero might be tempted to put his finger in the trigger guard. Training, fellows, training.

What was interesting to me is that from looking at the videos, Kraigwy seems to be a belt-and-suspenders guy. Interesting. Who'd a thunk it?

SG29736
March 10, 2012, 10:25 PM
Of course they can be used safely and correctly by shooters. The problem is though that if you just stand back and watch a bunch of shooters using them, without them being aware, a high percentage of them will be hooking that finger when they engage the release, making it very easy for the finger to pop into the trigger guard. Now, people can do the same thing with a regular holster, but a lot more will do it with the Serpa design.

A club always has to be on the lookout for safety and shooters that have a problem with it. It's just multiplied with the use of the Serpas. It's easier for a lot of clubs to ban them, rather than say shooter A can use one but shooter B can't. Mark

kraigwy
March 10, 2012, 10:30 PM
It's easier for a lot of clubs to ban them,

No you ban those who can't follow the four basic rules of firearm safety.

Kraigwy seems to be a belt-and-suspenders guy. Interesting. Who'd a thunk it?

I am a firm believer in "concealed is concealed" If the revolver or pistol is heavy, then I'll use suspenders to remain concealed.

SG29736
March 11, 2012, 12:57 AM
"It's easier for a lot of clubs to ban them,"

"No you ban those who can't follow the four basic rules of firearm safety."

A lot of clubs and schools have found that a much higher percentage of shooters using Serpa holsters seem to have a harder time following the four basic rules of firearm saftey because of the use of the trigger finger to release the gun from the holster. Some shooters find it easy to use properly, a lot don't. Shooters can find a lot of ways to be unsafe. Theoretically, they shouldn't be a problem. But when observing enough shooters actually using them, between safety issues and malfunctioning holsters, they've seen more problems than they have time to deal with. Thus the bans. Makr

Don P
March 12, 2012, 08:20 AM
For now all the ranges that I have gone to for competition matches have outlawed the use of Serpa holsters in the matches. Too many folks putting holes in there calf's and dupas and some have been LE doing the screw ups.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 12, 2012, 10:08 AM
Dupas? Now, I know what that means, having lived in Buffalo and marrying someone from that tribe. :D

At a local match, we had two Serpa leg shoots and one guy who was so struggling with his and get excited that the SO grabbed him so he would stop.

m&p45acp10+1
March 12, 2012, 02:36 PM
Unfortunately there are some people that should not even attempt to walk, and chew bubble gum at the same time. Much less try to draw a hand gun with thier finger out of the trigger guard, and then bring it to a safe point before attemting to fire it. What many people can train to do safely, some just can not do it. Regardless of how much training they recieve.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 12, 2012, 07:18 PM
Yeah, like the two guys I saw ND in front of their toes with their carbines a couple of weeks ago negotiating a barricade. Scary.

sam colt
March 12, 2012, 07:52 PM
I have a serpa for my 1911 and I have NO problem withdrawing the pistol and keeping my finger off the trigger. It's just a natural pull and the finger ends up on the frame of the gun. No problem!

Don P
March 12, 2012, 08:44 PM
Dupas? Now, I know what that means, having lived in Buffalo and marrying someone from that tribe.

At a local match, we had two Serpa leg shoots and one guy who was so struggling with his and get excited that the SO grabbed him so he would stop.

Glad to have you as a tribe member even if its by marriage. Our 3 self inflicted wounds were 2 calf, 1 dupa all with 1911's

Glenn E. Meyer
March 13, 2012, 09:41 AM
Told my wife about the 'dupa' - cracked her up.

As far as the holster working for you, it works till you shoot your dupa!

NWGlocker
March 14, 2012, 09:59 PM
One of the local gun shop employees recommended the Serpa to me when I bought my first Glock. I bought the holster, used it for some of my first IDPA competitions and used it in a 2-day defensive handgun class. While I never had a problem with it and had no ND's, I stopped using it after 6 months. Here's my own reasoning:

Using the locking tab adds a complicated series of motions. The index finger is "activated", flexing on the tab/button. You draw the gun out of the holster and the finger is supposed to fall on the frame. You then have to relax the finger, move it to the trigger guard, and then flex it again. Flex-press-relax-flex into trigger guard.

Compare that to a non-locking holster. Your index/trigger finger is extended or already relaxed while you draw the gun, then it flexes into the trigger guard. 2 steps instead of multiple steps

In non-stressful situations and even competitions with my Serpa, I can get a proper grip on the gun, hit the tab, and the finger falls on the frame. I'm completing my draw stroke without a problem.

But what if I'm in a stressful, life-threatening situation? Maybe I won't get that proper grip. Maybe my hand will be just a little high or just a little low on the grip, forcing my finger to be a little off. I might forget to relax the finger when I pull out and I'm so adrenalin pumped that my entire shooting hand balls up...and the finger slips into the trigger guard a little too early. Or I might miss the tab altogether and I'm trying to tug and tug on my gun while it stays locked in the holster. Or maybe it'll clear the holster and the shot breaks when I want it to.

Others will be happy with the holster, and will never have a ND with it-- that's all great. I never had a ND with a Serpa, but I'm not willing to keep taking chances with it. Too many uncertainties.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 17, 2012, 09:42 PM
Match today, a very skilled shooter and LEO had a new Serpa - had problems freeing the gun. Said he would have to practice quite a bit.

Thus, for someone who doesn't practice intensively, not the way to go, IMHO.

kraigwy
March 18, 2012, 07:08 PM
No body should carry any pistol/revolver in any holster withwout practicing ............A LOT.

At least until it comes as a second nature.

booker_t
March 20, 2012, 08:54 AM
I have no problem with the Serpa, I own one for my Glock 20 and it's great.

The only downside is if you are rolling around in loose material, mud, snow, etc. The mechanism could become caked, requiring additional force that could lead to a mistake. If you're going into a messy environment, I'd say get a different holster.

Regarding the Tex Grubner incident, he's a moron. I'd say it to his face. He switched guns and switched holsters and went full speed ahead, when his fundamentals weren't in place. It was a "tactical timebomb" waiting to blow. It is a bad example for everybody and unfortunately, many follow in his (and similar peoples') footsteps.

I hate to be judgemental, but I am going to be for a minute because it needs to be said. For some reason, firearms, and gun sports, attract a lot of people who frankly should have a less dangerous hobby. People who are not naturally athletic or coordinated think that with a few practice runs in front of the mirror can draw and fire like Chris Costa in the DVDs. It's this "need for speed" that is going to continue to produce injuries and accidents. There are a dozen phrases about going slow, but when the clock is ticking nobody seems to care. They get caught up in the moment and forget to breathe, let alone how to properly operate their holster or maintain trigger finger discipline. That's why I only shoot at private clubs.

Thanks for the analysis Kraig, good stuff.