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HALL,AUSTIN
February 3, 2012, 11:57 PM
Its about tax return time and I wanted to ask if the 700s are still a quality gun or if QC has taken a downward trend. Also is 390a good price for a 700 in 7mm mag? It isnt a 770, but a 700, heard bad stuff about the 770...

warbirdlover
February 4, 2012, 12:54 AM
You'll get all kinds of varying answers on this but I "took a chance" and am totally satisfied. Shoots cloverleaf groups at 100 yards (1/2-3/4 MOA), functions perfectly and IMHO is the prettiest rifle out there. New trigger is outstanding. 3 lbs. and crisp. Much better quality then the BDL I bought in the 70's. (SPS Buckmasters .270)... I paid $599 with a $50 rebate from Remington so that's an amazing price if it's new.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78341&stc=1&d=1328334865

HALL,AUSTIN
February 4, 2012, 01:01 AM
Its an all black 700 for a cool 390 and it is NIB at walmart.

Rspeters
February 4, 2012, 01:34 AM
I would google "remington 700 walmart" to see what others have to say about them…they're not the same as a $500-$600 remington 700 from somewhere else. People say they have a different coating on the barrel that isn't quite as nice.

Marquezj16
February 4, 2012, 01:46 AM
Is it an SPS or an older ADL? I bought my 700 ADL .223 Varmint from Dick's for $450 with the scope package. Plenty accurate and trigger is good.

I don't really believe that Wal Mart rifles get a different coating. A plain black stock Rem 700 SPS in Wal Mart is the same plain black stock Rem 700 SPS in any other store. Go ask Remington CS about that one. However, a Rem 700 SPS is not the same as a Rem 700 BDL, CDL, XCR, VTR. Or any of the several other models variations of the Rem 700. Heck the SPS alone has several different variations.

Joe Chicago
February 4, 2012, 08:26 AM
Steer clear of Remington products until they sort out their quality control issues. I bought two new Remington rifles in 2011 and had to send both back to the factory for safety or failure to fire issues. This was very disappointing since I had a 1997 model 700 ADL that never failed to function and shot one inch groups.

AFman
February 4, 2012, 09:08 AM
I've had 2 Remington 700's over the past 20 years. I owned a 700 ADL, 30.06in 1987-1994. Very pretty rifle, shot very well...could hit hedgeapples offhand at 100+yrds with factory ammo.

I recently bought a 700 ADL Varminter, 243 win at Dicks. Very happy with it. I can shoot sub MOA (.43 inches best to date) @ 100 yrds benchrest with handloaded ammo. Consistently shoots sub MOA 5 shot groups, with 3-9x scope @ 100yrds if I'm doing my part.

My father has a 700 BDL 30.06, that he bought in the early 70s. It is a gorgeuos rifle...deep, highly polished bluing, walnut stock with glossy finish and a super grain pattern with the black forend piece.

My brother has a 700 ADL, 270 synthetic stock, that he bought in the early 90s.

Trigger pull on all are crisp and light (4 lbs or so, I would guess).

Never had any of these so called "safety issues" on any of these rifles. I don't even recall having a failure to fire. I suspect these sort of issues are a result of modifications/adjustments to the trigger mechanizm or lack of care/maintenance on the rifle.

I believe walmart does have different models of the same make than you might find at a gunstore (ie. SPS vs ADL vs BDL vs CDL). But I don't believe a 700 SPS at walmart is any different than 700 SPS at a gunstore. Different packages, maybe (ie, scope/sling or not). That would cost Remington too much and why would they risk their great reputation.

BTW: Many military and law enforcement sniper rifles are based on the 700 action.

Go to a gunstore and check out the different makes, side-by-side, then you be the judge. I'm not saying Savage, Howa, Winchester, Ruger etc make a poor rifle...I'm just very pleased with Remington's 700...

HALL,AUSTIN
February 4, 2012, 09:12 AM
Wow, tgere are so many variations of this rifle. I think Im just going to go back to get more info today.

warbirdlover
February 4, 2012, 10:33 AM
Just so you know. All Remington 700's start out down the assembly line together until they get to where one might be a high end version so gets a deep blueing while the SPS versions go down another line for the dull oxide type coating. One is not made different then the other other then the finishing. They also will not have a different type of oxide coatings for Walmart. So basically the high end Remingtons have the better finish but the low end are just as functional, still shoot the same tight groups and have the same triggers etc.

Quality problems? I bought mine from a dealer where I could look it over closely and cycle the action, try the trigger etc before buying. I compared it to others the same way. I would never buy a rifle sight unseen.

There are those here who have got some lemons. There are also those here who've gotten lemons from TC and others and yes, even Savage. And there are those here who've gotten some lemons in the "great" quality years of the 70's and 80's (myself). It happens. Every purchase from any brand is a "risk" IMHO.

mpd61
February 4, 2012, 11:37 AM
I bought a 700 SPS wood stock in 7mm/08 at Dick's just over two years ago. (Dicks exclusive) On clearance for $349.97 and was surprised at check-out when it rang up for 299.95! Shoots really well for me! No issues at all.
:eek:

HALL,AUSTIN
February 4, 2012, 02:19 PM
Well, to me an oxide finish isnt a deal breaker... I had to cut a deal with my fiance to get the green light to buy it. So I had to hack the single shot 12gauge that hurt her shoulder into a lot of small pieces... It hurt my heart to destroy 1 of my 2 singles... So now I HAVE to buy it. Come febuary 24th that gun will come home with me.

jrhilde
February 4, 2012, 02:43 PM
I'm sure that there have been problems with the Remingtons, but I've owned six diffrent 700's, an ADL and BDL many years ago, three new BDL's recently along with one of the 06's with the black laminate stock and all of mine were very accurate and functioned perfectly along with being the best looking rifles at the range,[ I have a weakness for classic looking beautiful rifles]---I don't have any of them currently because friends and fellow shooters keep buying them from me so I have another on order as we speak---
So for me, they have been totally reliable rifles I've been completely satisfied with---I say go ahead and get it, I think you will be more than pleased---

jmr40
February 4, 2012, 02:46 PM
I would google "remington 700 walmart" to see what others have to say about them…they're not the same as a $500-$600 remington 700 from somewhere else. People say they have a different coating on the barrel that isn't quite as nice.

The 700's sold at Walmart are the same as any other 700. They make several versions, Walmart tends to carry the budget versions, but the $700 versions are available at Walmart also. You may just have to get them to order it since it likely won't be in stock.

They also sell the $350 budget versions at places other than Walmart. Either way they are the same gun.

If I wanted a Remington, I'd buy one. I prefer other brands, but have found the internet complaints about Remingtons are highly over rated. They don't currently offer anything I'm interested in, but would buy with confidence if I found one I wanted.

hoffbill
February 4, 2012, 04:35 PM
My son-in-law bought a Rem 700 SS in 30-06 last year and loves it. I have a Rem 700 in 223 I bought about 8-10 yrs ago, back in the lawyer proof trigger days. Love the rifle, very accurate after I installed what Remington calls a match kit in the trigger. It consists of a couple of springs that change the trigger so it can be adjusted from around 4-5 lbs down to 2 or less. Mine came with a gritty 7 or 8 lbs

As for the slam fire problems the news media is promoting, I know I can adjust any Walker style trigger so that it will fire when the bolt is closed. I installed 2 of those match kits in rifles I owned and as part of the process learned how to adjust one and did some trial and error experiments to learn a little about the capabilities and limitations of the trigger. It seemed to me that the lighter the trigger is set, the more critical all the other adjustments became to avoid the unintended discharge situation. But I am only a garage gunsmith with limited experience and expertise. However, my experience causes me to think those incidents, which are rare, were probably caused by improper adjustment or maintenance.

With millions of the rifles in use, including US Army and US Marine snipers using thousands of them, if this were a common problem why are we not hearing daily horror stories in the news and especially on forums like this were those of us who shoot alot would be most likely to experience the issue?:confused:

hoffbill
February 4, 2012, 04:51 PM
I will add a comment about the "Walmart" 700 since I own both Savage 110 and Remington 700 rifles and am pleased with both. I bought the Savage in the cheapest model and upgraded the stock and trigger myself. But I could have gotten similar performance out of the box for similar cost.

My recommendation if you are looking for a low budget rifle is this: buy a Remington 700 or Savage 10/110 series "Walmart" grade rather than a 770, Axis, or other cheapo. Its not more than $100 more and will hold it's value, perform better, and has almost unlimited upgrade options available.

jmr40
February 5, 2012, 09:51 AM
With millions of the rifles in use, including US Army and US Marine snipers using thousands of them, if this were a common problem why are we not hearing daily horror stories in the news and especially on forums like this were those of us who shoot alot would be most likely to experience the issue?

Because it is not a common problem. But you better believe it is a real problem. I've seen it happen. It it can happen to any Remington made prior to 2007, and could happen at anytime.

The problem is far more likely to happen to rifles made during the 60's and 70's, and did happen quite often back then, before the internet and 24 hour news programs with time to fill. Most of those old rifles are no longer in use.

Not bashing Remington, I own a 1974 rifle that has done it several times, but that wouldn't prevent me from buying a Remington. Folks just need to understand that the potential is there and use extra caution when using a 700.

Just because it is rare doesn't mean it won't happen. I've never been struck by lightening, but I don't dance in the streets during a thunderstorm either. I have seen someone get struck by lightening, and I've seen 700 fire without pulling the trigger, so I know both can happen.

Slamfire
February 5, 2012, 06:57 PM
Remington did not make a profit from 2003-2005, was bankrupt, was purchased by Cerebus, a private equity firm, in 2006.

It is apparent that who ever owned Remington in the 2003-5 period ran the company into the ground. Then they were bought by a private equity firm. Private equity firms are not in it for the long run, they want to cook up a company and flip to a fool as fast as possible. I have no doubt they are squeezing as much as they can get out of the manufacturing facilities and the people.

A local match director, who is also a gunsmith, told me that the cheap Wal Mart 700’s he has worked on show poor workmanship. His quote was that he removed Remington barrels and these barrels were epoxied in the receivers because the receiver threads and barrel threads were so poorly machined. I have heard from others of the phenomena of epoxied barrels in Remingtons.

Based on that, I think the older the Remington, the better.

TX Hunter
February 5, 2012, 07:09 PM
Yes $390 is a good price for a Remington 700 in 7MM Mag.
The quality should be fine, and if there is a problem with your rifle, you can have it repaired by Remington under warranty.
I hope you good luck with your new Rifle, that you earned this year. :)

HALL,AUSTIN
February 5, 2012, 09:38 PM
Went to walmart and layed my mittens on it. The action is butter smooth, it MUST be mine, I might place an order for it it -06 or .308 though, because who doesn't like saying "Got 'im with my ought six", cause I sure do.

tim s
February 5, 2012, 11:22 PM
A local match director, who is also a gunsmith, told me that the cheap Wal Mart 700’s he has worked on show poor workmanship. His quote was that he removed Remington barrels and these barrels were epoxied in the receivers because the receiver threads and barrel threads were so poorly machined. I have heard from others of the phenomena of epoxied barrels in Remingtons.

Based on that, I think the older the Remington, the better.
Quote:

Remington 700's are made on the same lines they've always been made on.
FYI, the barrels have been locktited on right from the beginning and all bolt guns have always gotten adhesive. Cerberus has actually made a huge capitol investment in it's gun business.

I'm guessing for your "gunsmith" not to know about bbls always being glued he's part time at best a plumber at worst.

kmaysob
February 5, 2012, 11:36 PM
i have a 700 sps and i am nothing but happy with it.

Scorch
February 6, 2012, 12:29 AM
he removed Remington barrels and these barrels were epoxied in the receivers because the receiver threads and barrel threads were so poorly machined.
Yes, Remington barrels are glued in. It is not an epoxy, it is more like LocTite or plumbing pipe thread sealant. But many other manufacturers do the same: Weatherby, Howa, Browning, Winchester, and probably a few others. Yes, it is probably there so that the slop from cutting threads to minimum specs will still allow a solid fit once it has hardened, but it is there as an assembly aid for mass produced equipment, not to glue the guns together. I am more concerned about hot melt glue, er, thermoplastics in the bedding area than glue on the barrel threads.

kmaysob
February 6, 2012, 12:37 AM
do you expect the threaded barrel to just stay tight on its own with constant temperature change and vibration?

Discern
February 6, 2012, 01:00 AM
Here is a link on the Remington Walker trigger. This link describes the Remington Walker design and how it appears to be more prone for debris to get into the trigger housing and why the debris may be more prone for problems when compared to other trigger designs. Be aware there is potential for problems and not just on triggers that have been adjusted.

http://gunsmiths.com/articledetail.php?id=87

kmaysob
February 6, 2012, 01:24 AM
The new rifles come with the xmark trigger. This trigger has replaced the so called problemed design. I find it funny how quick everyone is to put reminton down over their problemed trigger, without knowing they have been replaced.

jmr40
February 6, 2012, 10:41 AM
The trigger was replaced in 2007. Lots of Remington 700's 7's, 600's, 660's 78's, etc. made prior to 2007. As I said earlier, that would not prevent me from buying one, but folks just need to understand a problem could happen and extra precautions are in order.

tim s
February 6, 2012, 10:54 AM
do you expect the threaded barrel to just stay tight on its own with constant temperature change and vibration? |


Since just about any other maker avoids this....yes. Any barrel that gets fired over time actually gets tighter on it's action.
Remington does this primarily for one reason alone, potential liability claims from home hobby types that would incorrectly do something and claim mfg. responsibility, that's the only reason.

Joe Chicago
February 6, 2012, 12:06 PM
Warbird, have I been to hard on Remington? I had to send a new Model Seven back to the factory because a headspace issue made it extremely difficult to open the bolt after firing. Then a brand new Model 597 threw its extractor plunger on the third round. The 597 also had the front sight mounted a couple degres off-center, rendering it impossible to zero. Do other manufacturers of low and mid range rifleshave similar QC issues?

Saltydog235
February 6, 2012, 12:31 PM
I just purchased a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in 7mm08, its a tack driver. However, to make it shootable to me, I had to change the stock, magazine box and bolt handle to date. The factory stock sent on the SPS from Remington is absolute crap IMO. Its flimsy, poorly fitted and just generally feels bad. The magazine box is a little short to accomodate my tastes as I like the bullet seated just off the lands and its working as my groups are one big hole. The bolt handle is just a personal choice and asthetics for me.

The trigger is decent but the set screw protrudes into the shoe when set to 2-2.5lbs like I want. I'll be replacing it with either a Timiney or Jewell pretty soon.

Honestly were I looking for something out of the box and not willing to do a little work on it, then I'd look more seriously at Savage. I bought the Remington because it was the only heavy barreled factory chambered rifle I could find in 7mm08. It was a crap shoot that paid off with the way the gun shoots so overall I am pleased considering I was planning on doing the work to begin with.

Scorch
February 6, 2012, 04:31 PM
do you expect the threaded barrel to just stay tight on its own with constant temperature change and vibration?
Actually, the right hand rifling that is prevalent in most firearms' barrels pretty well takes care of that. Every time you shoot, it tightens a little.

warbirdlover
February 6, 2012, 10:03 PM
Warbird, have I been to hard on Remington? I had to send a new Model Seven back to the factory because a headspace issue made it extremely difficult to open the bolt after firing. Then a brand new Model 597 threw its extractor plunger on the third round. The 597 also had the front sight mounted a couple degres off-center, rendering it impossible to zero. Do other manufacturers of low and mid range rifleshave similar QC issues?

Joe Chicago

Not at all Joe. If I had your experiences I'd probably feel the same as you. I have worked for many companies and what I've seen with almost every one is that there are "peaks and valleys" regarding quality. It might be something some manager said that PO'd the whole workforce for a period of time or a pay issue etc etc. In any case I know it happens. I've been very lucky after "taking a chance" on a Remington. I took that chance mainly because I had an excellent M77 Ruger to fall back on if something went wrong. And recently in this forum I haven't heard of any Remington problems in the last year or so. I am going to buy one of those new Ruger Americans one of these days just to see if it's a piece of c**p or not. And lately in here the quality issues seem to be with TC Ventures and a Vanguard recall.

BTW, did you ever get those Remington problems resolved Joe?

Discern
February 6, 2012, 10:57 PM
IMO, many QC issues come up when there is new ownership or a major change of personnel supervision, management or executives.

New owners always want to increase profits, and sometimes they do not want to listen to their new employees. Sometimes they try to change too much too soon instead of doing a little tweeking here and a little tweeking there to make a better product or a product that is just as good at a lower cost. Quite often they require the workers to do more with less resources. If problems don't show up immediately, they are likely to show up over time.

New people in key positions are likely to look for something to make them as an individual look great in the company. Sometimes it works, and sometimes QC takes a nosedive. Quite often they throw others under the bus in the process which destroys morale and pride in their workmanship. Take out the team concept and quality will eventually be affected in a negative way.

HALL,AUSTIN
February 6, 2012, 11:20 PM
I think Im just going to give in to the .308, it sounds like it will do the trick.

homesick
February 7, 2012, 06:54 AM
I just bought a 700 XCR, I took it out of the box mounted a scope on it and shot it. I did adjust the trigger as it has the X mark pro trigger, it went from heavy to fair which is just fine. I have not had any issues with this rifle in fact I have 3 different loads worked up for it and all shoot right at 1/2" MOA.

Joe Chicago
February 7, 2012, 03:19 PM
Warbird, Remington corrected the headspace issues on my M7, but I sold it anyway. With the #1 contour barrel it is great to carry, but terrible to practice with at the range. In its place I bought a Weatherby Vanguard S2.

I just sent the 597 back to the factory with a letter saying I am only interested in a refund, not a replacement. I am curious how they will respond.

It is a damn shame Big Green let their QC drop. My 1997 ADL was a great shooter, and I loved the feel of the 700. Maybe in a couple years I'll get another Remington.

warbirdlover
February 7, 2012, 04:31 PM
Hope you have better luck on the next one Joe (if there is one... :D) Are you having good luck with the Vanguard? Regarding grouping etc etc.

If I was you and going to buy another Remington I'd go somewhere where I could fondle what I wanted to buy, check the headspace, look at the rifling (making them help you do it) so you don't get another lemon. That's pretty much what I did (minus the headspace check)....

Coyote_Buster700
February 7, 2012, 07:36 PM
Its about tax return time and I wanted to ask if the 700s are still a quality gun or if QC has taken a downward trend. Also is 390a good price for a 700 in 7mm mag? It isnt a 770, but a 700, heard bad stuff about the 770...

I have a VLS thats about 5 years old (not sure when Cerberus bought Remington) but it shoots 1/4-1/2 MOA groups prone... I cant wait to see what it does on the bench.

Joe Chicago
February 7, 2012, 09:50 PM
Warbird, the Model Seven had problems only after firing rounds. The bolt worked fine seating the rounds. I did inspect it before buying, including looking at the rifling, but I had no headspace gauges.

warbirdlover
February 7, 2012, 11:00 PM
I buy from places that have a gunsmith and I'd make the gunsmith bring out his gauges LOL.... :D