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View Full Version : Uberti 58 Army -inserting cylinder


Hardy
February 3, 2012, 07:04 PM
Ok--I've had Piettas that when go in half cock cylinder falls back in--no problem. I got uberti 1858 Army 44's that are beautiful case hardened but can't get the cylinder back in. When put on half cock the hammer hand still sticks out thru the shiels where piettas did not. Even though the bolt drops for clearance -I can't get it back in without getting MAd! What's the deal here. I've eased back hammer-tried everything. Please help me:o
WBH

Hawg
February 3, 2012, 08:14 PM
Ease the hammer back until it clears. The bolt and hand will both be retracted and the cylinder WILL fall in or out from either side. The jiggling you have to do on half cock is pushing the hand back far enough to get the cylinder past it. Try it with the cylinder out to see how far the hammer needs to be pulled back to retract both at the same time.

ofitg
February 3, 2012, 08:24 PM
Don't know if this will help, but I insert my Uberti cylinder (on half-cock) from the right-hand side of the frame. At the same time I rotate the cylinder with my fingers to push the hand up out of the way.

Riot Earp
February 3, 2012, 08:44 PM
Playing with the hammer is a good way to gouge the soft Italian cylinder with the bolt (from underneath). I know 'cause I've done it. The cylinder can be rotated (clockwise) in from the right side, at half cock, with a little practice, and you won't mar the cylinder.

Hawg
February 3, 2012, 09:10 PM
Riot, read my last post not just skim it. The bolt will be fully retracted, it cant mar the cylinder because it won't touch it.

Hardy
February 3, 2012, 09:20 PM
Thanks guys,

I was down in the carport workshop while you wrote. Now I am back. I noticed the hammer hand would not retract all the way back and uncocked the point of it was poking out like a small burr when not cocked. I filed that down flush. I got it back in the frame by putting it on 1/2 cock and rotating cylinder with left hand and pulling back hammer continuously until it finally engaged and was able to line it w/ pin. Jeez-there ought to be an easier method. Should I take a litlle more off the hand? Hey, had very little experience w/ Rems but the piettas always dropped hammer hand back into the shield. This Uberti does not--and my 2nd Gen peacemaker does not either.
WBH

WBH

Hawg
February 3, 2012, 09:28 PM
I'd be leery of filing off the front face of the hand. Take too much and it will weaken the hand.

Hardy
February 3, 2012, 09:40 PM
You are right Hawg-but it does cock better now. Maybe I was lucky and I took off just enough. Heck, the cylinder want go in if it's blocked. Will it?

Hawg
February 3, 2012, 09:48 PM
All I can say is it went in the first time.:D Is the timing good? The bolt isn't locking in just before it goes to full cock is it? If it is the hand is too long, that might be your problem.

ST Joe
February 3, 2012, 09:59 PM
I had a lot of problems with mine when I first bought it. But it slips right, once you get used to it.

Half cock the hammer, slide the cylinder in from the right, and gently twist it clockwise. The hammer hand slips into a recess and retracts.

Hardy
February 3, 2012, 10:31 PM
No-it didn't go in the 1st time. I struggled. I saw the point of the hammer hand coming up thru frame and only filed that down flush to the frame. I was then able to fumble it back in. And no-the hammer hand does not retract back like Piettas. It does much like the old peacemakers. Anyway, I think Hawg was saying I took integrety off the hand but I think it was just too long and pointed. I hope I didn't weaken it!

Have yall seen these guns? They are expensive-look up rem collections at Taylors. Check out backstrap and top strap. BEAUTIFUL

Hardy
February 4, 2012, 10:42 PM
Riot Earp--I got better at this from what you said--putting it in from the left side, ,,what I found out is that putting a uberti cylinder in is not the same easy way Pietta made them. The hammer hand never retracts back. It won't fall back in. It's a touch the instruction manual doesn't mention. Pietta 58 draws the hammer in at 1/2 cock for easy assembly. But Everyone loves the case hardened uiberti--I guess they will struggle w.cylinder like I did. Maybe not.

WBH

Colts are easier but not as accurate. Right?

zullo74
February 4, 2012, 10:46 PM
At 1/2 cock the hand should be sticking out a little bit on both makes of guns. If a hand is 'falling back in' then the hand spring is broken!

Hawg
February 5, 2012, 07:13 AM
Yeah, Pietta hands stick out too and require a little twist to install a cylinder from half cock but the other way is faster and easier. BTW Hardy, when I said it went in the first time I meant when the factory put it in.:D

Doc Hoy
February 5, 2012, 08:03 AM
With the Remingtons I have the primary difficulty in getting the cylinder to go back in smoothly has to do with the cylinder getting a tiny bit crooked and binding up. It seems to have less to do with the hand than it has to do with this binding.

Hawg
February 5, 2012, 09:13 AM
Doc, Hardy has a legitimate problem. YOU on the other hand simply aren't holding your mouth right.:D

noelf2
February 5, 2012, 09:44 AM
The only Uberti 1858 Army I have is the carbine and it's new, not broken in yet. Even if the hand sticks out a bit, when inserting the cylinder from the right on half cock, I only need to give a slight clockwise twist and it slips right in. I did have the problem you are having with one of my Pietta 1858 NMAs. After 30 rounds or so it got easier, or perhaps I just got used to it. I scratched up that cylinder by not going into half cock and just pulling the hammer till the cylinder would just fall out or just slide in. I recommend worrying about the bolt being fully retracted more than the hand if you don't want to scratch the cylinder. Perhaps after breaking it in a bit, it will become a non issue.

Hawg
February 5, 2012, 10:12 AM
That's the way I do it and I haven't scratched a cylinder yet. Maybe next time.

zullo74
February 5, 2012, 10:40 AM
Hawg,

From what I have read here, Hardy does not have a mechanical problem. He has operator error.

Hawg
February 5, 2012, 10:47 AM
No, I think Hardy had a mechanical problem since he had to file some off the hand.

Doc Hoy
February 5, 2012, 11:01 AM
I think you are right. It is just that with some of my Remingtons, tongue position is more critical than with others.

zullo74
February 5, 2012, 11:06 AM
Hawg,

Hardy does things without thinking. He filed away HOPING it was the problem, but not knowing.

Hawg
February 5, 2012, 11:12 AM
Yeah but I wasn't gonna say that.:D

noelf2
February 5, 2012, 01:54 PM
That's the way I do it and I haven't scratched a cylinder yet. Maybe next time.

Yes I know. There's a definite knack to it. I wasn't pulling the hammer back far enough to ensure the bolt was clear before dropping or inserting the cylinder. That caused the bolt to scratch up the cylinder, especially when I was putting it back in. Live and learn! I now know exactly how far to pull the hammer to keep the bolt from scratching the cylinder, but have many more years experience now. Never scratched another cylinder since that one, but I'm not trying to do the pale rider speed cylinder swap and fast draw much any more either. I'm sure that had something to do with the scratches as well... :D

craiso
February 5, 2012, 02:34 PM
Don't modify the hand, try this...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/craiso/Pietta%201858%20Target%20Model/100_4392.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/craiso/Pietta%201858%20Target%20Model/100_4391.jpg

I have posted this a few different places in the past, so forgive me if I am repeating myself. I modified my conversion as well as my bp cylinder. Use a small file and make a groove for the hand to move through. It's a simple mod that will make you look like a pro :D.

denster
February 6, 2012, 12:14 PM
A bit off topic. When did Uberti start making a color case hardened 1858 NMA?

Hawg
February 6, 2012, 12:24 PM
Three or four months ago I think. Hasn't been very long anyway.

denster
February 6, 2012, 01:04 PM
Well that's interesting. Thanks Hawg!

Hardy
February 6, 2012, 07:21 PM
I was too thinking. The hammer hand had a sharp point on the tip. I only filed just a tiny to get the burr down. It cocks in all 3 positions much better than when it came from the factory. Now the Piettas we have had always retracted the hand back so cylinder went in and was not blocked by bolt or hammer hand. I do know that my 2nd gen colt peacemaker does not and always took a little twisting. Zullo might be right but we had a customer that wanted the other uberti and he was fairly knowledgeble and he too didn't like the struggle of how that cylinder didn't go in easy. He did (THANK GOD) bought another one.

It shouldn't be this difficult . Either from a stupid operator or mechanical design. The protruding hammer hand is not user friendly. Yeah, I can put it in. But I want customers to be able to without problems. It is case hardened from frame-top strap and backstrap-beautiful:D
WBH




WBH

Hardy
February 6, 2012, 08:30 PM
I just (a few minutes ago) took cylinder out and put it back in easy. This gun was built tight. And-when I took it down there was an enormous amount of BP residue that had to be cleaned along with much thick factory oil and grease. After 4 times removing, it fits so much better. Maybe the Uberti people shot it alot and just packed it back down with ozs of grease:D:mad: But anyway, thanks for the input. This is a gun that has to be broken in big time but I like it. You understand that I try to sell retail and was mad that I struggled with it. I didn't want customers to struggle. I learned. Thank you. But-I still think that hammer hand needed a lttle honing. Go on Taylor & Co web and check out their Rem selection. That's how I found it. I would consider selling my 2nd gen peacemaker to one of you. Pics are on older thread.

You see, many people come in that have never handled a BP revolver. I stock essentials but unless they are like you they get mad if they have problems. I still have an issue with this Rem cylinder thing. I can't tell them everything in yalls head and explain breaking em in. But I did find out that the Uberti instruction manual says nothing about how to put the cylinder back into the frame - Nothing! Nor does Pietta. OH well----

Thank You. I'm sure I'll run across a new problem soon. Hope you are there for me:)
WBH

Hardy
February 8, 2012, 07:02 PM
Well. spoke too soon. I fired 18 rounds and then cleaned. The cylinder got stubborn again. It finally slipped in from the left and I was able to slide pin down. Do you think the heat expanded something to make it stubborn again?

WBH

zullo74
February 8, 2012, 07:51 PM
I just think your technique is incorrect. The cylinder should go in and out from the right side at the 1/2 cock position, with a slight clockwise rotation to depress the hand. It's really not rocket surgery!

arcticap
February 8, 2012, 09:58 PM
I insert the cylinder on the left.
Starting with the hammer in the down position, after I barely begin to cock the hammer, the cylinder will slip right in. Once it's in, I bring the hammer to 1/2 cock which holds the cylinder fairly centered and in place for the base pin to be inserted.
Then I'll usually push it out through the right side.
If I botch the insertion by cocking it too quickly for the cylinder to slip right in, I'll just fully decock and start over again.
The key for me is to start to barely cock the hammer simultaneously with inserting the cylinder.
So there appears to be different methods that work, and mine is a Pietta.

Hardy
February 8, 2012, 10:12 PM
Zullo you are right-I think. Art-you are right too. What is missing here is being able for all you guys to hold this gun and do it. After 4 or 5 tries the cylinder slipped in easy at 1/2 cock rotating it clockwise. It certainly did't before. I thought it was just real tight and needed a little loosening. I was real happy. I shot 18 rounds and after complete cleaning and lubing, the cylinder would not rotate in to position. Easing hammer, 1/2 cock trying from right-- then left etc. I finally took a rubber mallet and poped it on its right side and it snapped in. It has to be that the hammer hand is not retracting all the time when trying to rotate cylinder in. I called Bill, at the store, and he couldn't rotate cylinder(on the other uberti) in and gave it a small tap w/mallet and went in.

Hey it started rotating in great until i fired it. As by last post, I wonder if heat expanded something. Look, I have had rems before and I know they are tricky but this uberti has a passion for not doing what you all say.

Hardy
February 8, 2012, 10:27 PM
I will say one thing for it. It is dead accurate. At 30 grains it doesnt shoot high or low at 40 feet. I gota keep it. If WBH can hit beer cans at 40 ft--then you might want to consider this one.:D

ST Joe
February 8, 2012, 11:01 PM
Sport's Warehouse in Thornton, CO had both the Uberti and Pietta Remington NMA. The Pietta was thirty bucks cheaper, but the fit and finish on the Uberti made it worth the price.

Mine shoots roughly seven inches low at 30 yards. Have had it to the range twice with the same results.

The shot groups are a bit scattered, but I've not had a lot of practice with hand guns. I tend to be a bit to the right with one hand, and to the left using two hands. More practice is obviously in order.

Have to admit, I'm more than a little nervous at the thought of filing down the front sight.

Hardy
February 9, 2012, 07:25 PM
I am going to send gun back to Taylors and have gunsmith fit it. That's one good thing about them, they'll do it. If you like these, I'll work a deal and send w/ minimal drop off charge and 15% above my cost. Just like Zullo says-I do things w/out thinking and usually I throw things that make me mad into the pond! but I like this gun!!!! I think they offer it for 361? Let me know:)
WBH

arcticap
February 11, 2012, 08:57 PM
I insert the cylinder on the left.
Starting with the hammer in the down position, after I barely begin to cock the hammer, the cylinder will slip right in. Once it's in, I bring the hammer to 1/2 cock which holds the cylinder fairly centered and in place for the base pin to be inserted.
Then I'll usually push it out through the right side.
If I botch the insertion by cocking it too quickly for the cylinder to slip right in, I'll just fully decock and start over again.
The key for me is to start to barely cock the hammer simultaneously with inserting the cylinder.
So there appears to be different methods that work, and mine is a Pietta.

I have an unfired Euroarms Remington and the tip of the hand protrudes just enough with the hammer in the down position that it also blocks the cylinder from being inserted from the left. So I was forced to insert it from the right and it basically went in the same way as when I insert it from the left on my Pietta.
But the tip of the hand is what made all the difference. I don't know if it would wear down enough over time to allow insertion from the left or not.

sandman_nv
February 12, 2012, 07:55 PM
well, i am glad to read that i was not the only one having this problem, though mine is a R&S. thanks to the fine suggestions posted here, life is now easier

still not as good as Mr. Eastwood in Pale Rider though :D

Hardy
February 17, 2012, 04:34 PM
Got both Rems back from Taylor & Co. Both cylinders roll in at 1/2 cock as smooth as moon beams. I'll ask Monday what the problem was. Before getting answer, I still guess that the hammer hands were too long and were not fitted by factory properly. ONE thing here--if you order from Taylors and have a problem-their gunsmith, Tom, will take care of it pronto and gun action will be better than ever in most cases. They take real good care of their retailers and customers.

WBH

sandman_nv
February 17, 2012, 08:15 PM
nice to hear, Hardy

would it be out of line to ask what they charged your for that service?

Hardy
February 17, 2012, 09:20 PM
Nothing. That is what's good by dealing w/them. They stand behind their products. And they know a lot about these! INCLUDING whoever answers phone If you decide to buy a gun w/conversion cylinder-Taylor will make sure it fits as long as you buy the gun from them. You pay a little more for Piettas than Cabela offers but the care service and quality they offer is worth it. They are our best dealer for Uberti/Pietta guns.

WBH

Riot Earp
February 25, 2012, 09:16 PM
Riot, read my last post not just skim it. The bolt will be fully retracted, it cant mar the cylinder because it won't touch it.

Didn't skim it. The bolt is not fully retracted until you reach half cock. At least, it isn't on my guns. Trying to hold the hammer just short of half cock while simultaneously inserting the cylinder with the other hand and lining up a cylinder notch while you're doing it, is fine if you have good dexterity. But I don't. I guess some do it your way and some do it the Clint Eastwood way. I prefer the latter, 'cause I can't do it your way without marring the cylinder. :(

noelf2
February 27, 2012, 02:04 PM
I guess some do it your way and some do it the Clint Eastwood way. I prefer the latter, 'cause I can't do it your way without marring the cylinder.

+1 same here

CarbineWilliams
February 29, 2012, 07:40 PM
On the subject of Taylor's, I got my conversion from them and was really impressed with customer service. Also, the cylinder fits nice as well.

My Pietta does what op describes, where if i want to get the cylinder in at half cock i have to put it in from the right side and rotate it to push the hand back but I'm used to it now so it comes pretty natural.