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Sealed
January 18, 2012, 04:57 PM
In 1994-1995 i have 16 arrests for disorderly conduct that were all tossed out at court. 1 arrest/conviction for misdemeanor possession of marijuana and 1 arrest/conviction for Felony UUW. The law had recently changed so when i was stopped/searched with my grandfathers hand gun it was a felony in Chicago. Thats the only criminal history i have. I was basically an idiot for the first 2 years after i graduated high school but i straightened up after that.

Fast forward to now and my girlfriend is into competitive shooting and its something i want to participate in also. I want to get a FOID card in Illinois so i contacted my attorney about getting my record removed. She said she could get it sealed. I had to leave for a work trip so i havent spoken to her since last week.

I decided to post about it. Will i be able to get a FOID card if my record is sealed?

Thanks for any help or advice.

kraigwy
January 18, 2012, 05:01 PM
You already have an attorney working on it, why not ask her?

Sealed
January 18, 2012, 05:06 PM
Im stuck in NY for the next 2 months so i thought i would see if anyone had first hand experience with it while i sit here in my hotel at night.

I know if a record is expunged then its totally clear but sealed records are still accessible by law enforcement. So basically if i cant get a FOID card after sealing my record then there isnt any point in going thru with it.

Attorneys aren't always the expert we think they are. When i posed the question to her she said she would look into it and then responded with "i can seal your record" but no information about whether or not that would work if i wanted a FOID Card. After googling i landed here after reading a few similar posts it was obvious that there are people here with first hand knowledge on the subject.

Don H
January 18, 2012, 05:26 PM
Seems like, even with your records sealed, Question #2 on the FOID application would be the killer:
Have you ever been convicted of a felony?

Might be opening yourself to a perjury charge if you answered 'No':
I hereby solemnly affirm that
the information contained herein is true to the best of my knowledge.

Then there's the whole question about whether you could legally possess a firarm under federal law with your felony conviction:
18 USC 922(g)
It shall be unlawful for any person -
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable
by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess
in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive
any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in
interstate or foreign commerce.

Most felonies would run afoul of this statute.

If you are indeed a prohibited person under federal law or state law, both you and your girlfriend may possible be violating that law (and possibly state law) if you have access to her firearms.

An attorney well versed in firearm law might be a wise investment.

Sealed
January 18, 2012, 05:43 PM
18 USC 922(g)
It shall be unlawful for any person -
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable
by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess
in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive
any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in
interstate or foreign commerce.

This is interesting and why i like to ask about things like this in forums. My sentence was 1 year intensive probation. So i wasn't imprisoned. Probation may be considered imprisonment but it did not exceed 1 year. So basically 18 USC 922 (g) doesnt apply to me if i am reading it correctly.

Seems like, even with your records sealed, Question #2 on the FOID application would be the killer:
Quote:
Have you ever been convicted of a felony?
Might be opening yourself to a perjury charge if you answered 'No':

This is why i am wondering if sealing is the right course of action. I dont know if i qualify for expungement in Illinois so a pardon seems like the only option. Once an item has been expunged or pardoned its no longer on your record for anyone to see so answering NO may not be true but it is as far as any member of law enforcement is concerned.

Most felonies would run afoul of this statute.

If you are indeed a prohibited person under federal law or state law, both you and your girlfriend may possible be violating that law (and possibly state law) if you have access to her firearms.

This is not an issue.

An attorney well versed in firearm law might be a wise investment.

Agreed. Now to spend the next 2 months of my life trying to find one.

markj
January 18, 2012, 05:51 PM
Have you ever been convicted of a felony?

Might be opening yourself to a perjury charge if you answered 'No':


Is a felony to lie on this application so be very carefull. Try to see if the lawyer can get any convictions "set aside" by a federal judge, is the exact same thing as a full pardon. the felony you have will prevent you from getting a gun unless it is wiped out and the reporting office IE police dept will have to be made aware of this as it may show up if a call is made to the nics folks.

good luck

Isk
January 18, 2012, 05:58 PM
Sealed,

Unfortunately, you are not reading it correctly. The amount of YOUR sentence doesn't matter...it is the amount of potential punishment that matters. The crime itself was punishable by more than 1 year in jail (if it was a felony as indicated). My advice, don't mess around with this stuff. If you live with her and she owns firearms, they should be kept elsewhere. Unfortunately, you are a felon and cannot even touch those guns.

Even if the records are sealed, you will be violating the law if you state that you have not been convicted of a felony when you have.

Scimmia
January 18, 2012, 05:59 PM
This is interesting and why i like to ask about things like this in forums. My sentence was 1 year intensive probation. So i wasn't imprisoned. Probation may be considered imprisonment but it did not exceed 1 year. So basically 18 USC 922 (g) doesnt apply to me if i am reading it correctly.

You aren't reading it correctly. It doesn't say "punished", it says "punishable". It doesn't matter what you got, it matters what the maximum allowable sentence is for that crime.

Aguila Blanca
January 18, 2012, 06:18 PM
Your attorney needs to understand that a "sealed" conviction is still a conviction. In order for you to be allowed to possess (or shoot, or even touch) a firearm your conviction has to be expunged, meaning canceled/deleted/removed/erased ... "sealed" doesn't do anything for you.

This is interesting and why i like to ask about things like this in forums. My sentence was 1 year intensive probation. So i wasn't imprisoned. Probation may be considered imprisonment but it did not exceed 1 year. So basically 18 USC 922 (g) doesnt apply to me if i am reading it correctly.
What sentence you received doesn't matter. The law is based on whether or not the maximum sentence you COULD have received exceeded one year.

18 USC 922(g)
It shall be unlawful for any person -
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable
by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

Be careful when reading laws to read what they actually say, rather than what you would like it to say.

IANAL.

Sealed
January 18, 2012, 07:07 PM
I posted this above but my girlfriends firearms are not an issue.

Thanks for clearing up the wording. I think Felony UUW carried 2-5 years. Going from memory here. So that means that it does apply.

After reading more i don't think sealing does anything as law enforcement still has access to the records. I don't think i qualify for expungment so a pardon is the only thing i can do. A site i read says expungement is not possible for felonies in Illinois. I wrote my lawyer about this to see what she has to say. In the mean time i guess i better start learning how to use a bow.

Sealed
January 18, 2012, 07:52 PM
Lawyer got back to me with this "I do not know what the law states with regard to your UUW conviction and your ability to own a weapon. You would need to contact whomever issues the FOID for the requirements. "

So now i have to find someone who understands the law regarding FOID vs Felony convictions. What a ridiculous web.

Baylorattorney
January 18, 2012, 07:56 PM
No. Your attorney didn't even help you with a NO. you are a felon for all intents and purposes. It can't be expunged, and a PARDON is your only avenue to achieve the results you are seeking. Otherwise, it is a resoundingly clear NO. Sorry.

checkmyswag
January 18, 2012, 08:00 PM
Believe the Illinois State Police issue FOID cards.

Baylorattorney
January 18, 2012, 08:07 PM
Sealing only protects privacy interests. Does nothing for you. Your Chicago attorney is clueless, as most are regarding gun laws. Even though it's really very simple. You being convicted of a felony are a "prohibited person". Expungement isn't an option for you. only a pardon from your governor will make you eligible again. Or you could get a job in law enforcement, no joke, since they created 4th degree felonies, nearly every employer has had to reconsider hiring "felons".

Onward Allusion
January 18, 2012, 08:13 PM
(ain't a lawyer, and this is free advice so take it for what it's worth)

Get your civil rights restored!

Sealing your court records will do nothing in restoring your civil rights. Court proceedings are public record and all sealing does is make those records unavailable to the public. Records are sealed in cases where the information in the case/trial can be damaging to the plaintiff or defendant.

BTW, get a new lawyer!

Sealed
January 19, 2012, 12:00 AM
Law firm wants $7500 to attempt the pardon. At this point it makes more sense to unlawfully carry and use that $7500 to beat the case if im caught.

MLeake
January 19, 2012, 12:09 AM
I would be surprised if that would only be a $7500 defense bill; don't forget, you also need to factor in money lost to the bail bondsman, and wages lost while you are in court, and possibly in jail or prison.

Edit: To be clear, not only am I pointing out that getting caught carrying could cost you a whole lot of money and aggravation, but I will also say it is a bad idea to deliberately break the law... And a dumb idea to say, beforehand, that you would do so on an Internet forum.

Don V.
January 19, 2012, 12:22 AM
I'm putting this up because I recently was given some guns because my father passed away and I'm currently going through the permit process. This is information I came across.

I almost "potentially" screwed up bad and have since learned that nobody is very forgiving when violating any of these rules\laws\statutes--I'm not sure what the differences are--. My potential mistake was getting ahead of myself and not knowing or taking the time to learn the rules. I wanted to get to the local range to shoot before transferring the permits into my name. Chances are nothing would have happened, but if something had, I probably never would have been allowed to own the guns. The officer told me that even though I would have had no malicious intent, it didn't mattter, no violation of gun laws is viewed as harmless or victimless. The officer was not at all friendly about any of this and it seemed harsh, but it is the way it is.

Federal - 18 USC ยง922(g) & (n)

Under indictment for or have been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

Fugitive of justice

Unlawful user of, or addicted to, any controlled substance (convicted, of possession within last year, multiple arrests for possession within the past five years if most recent arrest occurred within the past year, or positive drug test within last year)

Adjudicated as mental defective or been committed to any mental institution

Alien and is illegally or unlawfully in the U.S. (alien without permanent residence status)

Dishonorably discharged from the military

Formally renounced U.S. citizenship

Subject to a court order prohibiting harassing, stalking, or threatening of an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner or from engaging in other conduct that would place the partner or child in reasonable fear of bodily injury

Convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (does not have to be classified as a "domestic crime")

Under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

ETC. . . . .

Sealed
January 19, 2012, 12:31 AM
@MLeake... Google "Sarcasm" and "tongue in cheek".

I am off to break into Oprahs checking account to cover my legal fees.

SHNOMIDO
January 19, 2012, 12:34 AM
"...bail bondsman..."

Yea...we don't have those here in IL... I think that's 2 things that make us stand out against the other 49.

and i would have to agree, if you consider 10 years of your life in prison worth $7500, yea go for it.
(sarcasm included)

Aguila Blanca
January 19, 2012, 01:22 AM
Law firm wants $7500 to attempt the pardon. At this point it makes more sense to unlawfully carry and use that $7500 to beat the case if im caught.
If you get busted, it will be for a lot more than unlawful carry for most residents of Illinois.You will also be charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm, and $7500 won't even be enough to get a decent attorney to your bail hearing.

Tom Servo
January 19, 2012, 01:36 AM
Google "Sarcasm" and "tongue in cheek"
We don't need to. You asked a question. You were given an answer you don't like. Then you voiced an inclination (real or in jest) to break the law and subject yourself to even worse legal trouble. A friendly warning was given.

If you make progress on this issue, we'd like to hear about the process, but discussion of breaking the law will not be tolerated.

Baylorattorney
January 19, 2012, 03:57 AM
It never makes more sense to break a carry law than to follow them. They are reasonable laws in every state i know of so far. I do not ever advise any man woman or child to risk further erosion of all of our liberties bc one prohibited person chooses to be judge jury and executioner. Don't do it.

You lost your rights. Now you need to accept that fact. Denial will cost you more than $7500 in money. Unless you know a whole lot of very influential people, a pardon is a pie in the sky. Get real. It is what it is. Accept it and move on. Find another past time or hobby. Guns are not in your future. I'm sorry, really am, but man up.

Uncle Buck
January 19, 2012, 09:55 AM
WOW! You seem to be in a mess.

A friend handled his felony conviction by getting letters of charactor from people and organizations in his city. Basically the letters say "Mr. XYZ has been a member of this organization for XX years and during that time has worked with the youth sports organization. He is a morally upright citizen."
(and)
"I have know Mr. XYZ for XX years and have seen him mature in to a fine, upstanding citizen who is now a model for our youth to emulate."

Some things can not be rushed. Get a good lawyer pay your fees and work this case hard. Unfortunatly it will not be a fast process.

Sarcasm or not, saving that $7,500 for a lawyer to get you out of jail after the fact is both a waste of time and money. Why not do it upfront and hire the lawyer before you get caught? (Let us know how that works out.)

If you really want something, you have to earn it and work hard. It is a pain in the patukas sometimes, but well worth it.

I really think you could do it, if it is something you really want to work for. You are going to have to prove to who ever issues the pardon why you deserve it. (In Chicago it used to mean a large donation to the re-election campaign of the mayor ;), I am not sure about the State Govenor :D)

It took my friend about two years to get everything in order and his conviction was more than 20 years old. His case was in Conn. and was definately part of "Youthful Indiscretion".

Sealed
January 19, 2012, 10:52 AM
@ Tom. I asked a question and got exactly the answers i was looking for. I specifically posted here looking for information from a variety of people with a variety of information and first hand knowledge. As it turns out... the PRO that i hired isn't much of a pro after all and its a good thing i took steps towards taking matters into my own hands. I guess i could have taken the advice of the first responder and simply relied on my lawyers advice but i am glad i stuck around for more responses.

I voiced a joke (pretty obvious to anyone in my opinion) and later stated that it was in fact a joke. For the record... the part about breaking into Oprahs checking account was a Joke also. If anyone didnt take it as a joke i apoligize. I want to put your fears and concerns to bed. It was a joke.

@ Uncle Buck... the good old days are over i think :). Daley is gone and hopefully the new governor knows better.

Spats McGee
January 19, 2012, 10:54 AM
Welcome to The Firing Line, Sealed!

It never makes more sense to break a carry law than to follow them. They are reasonable laws in every state i know of so far.
In every state except Illinois. IL has no concealed carry at all. Granted, the OP is asking about the FOID and not concealed carry. Still, I would not characterize the rest of IL gun laws (what I know about them, anyway) as "reasonable."

Sealed
January 19, 2012, 10:57 AM
@ SHNOMIDO Curious about the 10 year number. What would lead to 10 years?

@ Forum Admin... No quote buttons at this forum?

Fishing_Cabin
January 19, 2012, 12:25 PM
OP, I know you mentioned that the charges were from the mid 90's. I do not forsee much of a chance of you getting a FOID card at this time. Stranger things have happened, but the felony conviction is enough to make it illegal for you to own/possess a firearm by federal law, and by many state laws.

As far as getting the conviction removed from your record. I would be careful because if you want to be able to buy a firearm after you get a pardon, etc, whatever is done must also meet the federal requirements.

Law firm wants $7500 to attempt the pardon. At this point it makes more sense to unlawfully carry and use that $7500 to beat the case if im caught.

I advise you DO NOT EVEN try to carry unlawfully! If you ever want your rights restored at some point in your life, continuing to break the law is not a smart way to do it.

@ Forum Admin... No quote buttons at this forum?

I am not the Forum Admin, but a friendly reminder that this is covered in the FAQs located here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/faq.php

The part about quotes is located here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode

Perhaps that helps. I hope that you and all of the others here have a wonderful day!

Don H
January 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
Curious about the 10 year number. What would lead to 10 years?



Probably this:
18 USC 924(a)(2)
Whoever knowingly violates subsection (a)(6), (d), (g), (h), (i), (j), or (o) of section 922 shall be fined as provided in this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

Baylorattorney
January 19, 2012, 12:52 PM
Welcome to The Firing Line, Sealed!


In every state except Illinois. IL has no concealed carry at all. Granted, the OP is asking about the FOID and not concealed carry. Still, I would not characterize the rest of IL gun laws (what I know about them, anyway) as "reasonable."

Carry laws are reasonable where they exist, >>>>more so than BREAKING the law anywhere.<<<<<<<

My personal opinion is there is not a single gun control law I deem as reasonable. Not even close to it. Damn shame this OP made a mistake when he was young and nothing short of him being well connected and wealthy (a pardon) can restore his right to own a gun. IMO it appears to be another glaring example of how gun laws ONLY HURT good folks rather than help us.

Onward Allusion
January 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
Don V.
I'm putting this up because I recently was given some guns because my father passed away and I'm currently going through the permit process. This is information I came across.

I almost "potentially" screwed up bad and have since learned that nobody is very forgiving when violating any of these rules\laws\statutes--I'm not sure what the differences are--. My potential mistake was getting ahead of myself and not knowing or taking the time to learn the rules. I wanted to get to the local range to shoot before transferring the permits into my name. Chances are nothing would have happened, but if something had, I probably never would have been allowed to own the guns. The officer told me that even though I would have had no malicious intent, it didn't mattter, no violation of gun laws is viewed as harmless or victimless. The officer was not at all friendly about any of this and it seemed harsh, but it is the way it is.

??? Paperwork? You have to register guns that you inherit??? What State are you in?

Aguila Blanca
January 19, 2012, 01:07 PM
It never makes more sense to break a carry law than to follow them. They are reasonable laws in every state i know of so far.
Your homework assignment, then, is to research the firearms ownership and carry laws in:

Illinois
California
New York
New Jersey
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Rhode Island
I'm sure there are a few more with arcane and unreasonable gun laws, but those are the ones that come immediately to mind.

Actually, even Texas isn't all that reasonable. Their required course of fire to get a carry permit is more stringent than that of many police departments, AND you have to shoot it again every time you renew. Some people might call that reasonable, but I don't.

Aguila Blanca
January 19, 2012, 01:15 PM
As far as getting the conviction removed from your record. I would be careful because if you want to be able to buy a firearm after you get a pardon, etc, whatever is done must also meet the federal requirements.
The only Federal requirement is that the conviction gets expunged. If the conviction was under Federal law, there is no way to obtain an expungement because that function of the DOJ has been intentionally unfunded for many years. The process still exists in the laws, but it can't be done. So for a Federal conviction the only option is a presidential pardon.

For convictions under state law, Federal law requires only that the conviction be expunged (or pardoned) in accordance with the laws of that state.

Don V.
January 19, 2012, 04:25 PM
Onward, these are Michigan laws:

The License to Purchase a Pistol form must be completed even though the applicant may already have possession of a pistol, such as through an inheritance. Federal firearms licensed dealers are not exempt from this section of the law and must also get a license any time they purchase/acquire a pistol from an individual or another gun dealer. There is an exemption only for dealers purchasing pistols directly from the manufacturer or wholesaler.

I have to treat an inheritence the same as if I were buying a gun from a local dealer. First you have to get a license to purchase a handgun which is good for 10 days. Once you have the permit, you can buy the gun, or in this case, I already have the guns. Once I have the permit and the gun(s), I have to go back to the local police with the paperwork and the guns. They inspect the guns. Then usually the next day you go back and pick up the gun, after inspection, and the Safety Inspection Certificate which is also you license or permit to own the handgun.

It says right on the back of the Inspection Certificate:

State law prohibits the furnishing, loaning, giving or selling of this pistol to another unless that person (including gun dealers) first obtains a license to purchase a pistol. Violation of this law is a criminal offense.

Sealed
January 19, 2012, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the information about quotes. I know forum tags and the blockquote icon... i was wondering where the "quote someones post" button was. I use this feature frequently to respond directly to people so the thread doesn't get confusing.

Right now it appears (from what i have read) that if i get the conviction pardoned it will be gone from my record. Everything i have read says that a pardon means the record is destroyed and gone.

Expungement doesn't look like an option at all and sealing does nothing so a pardon is my only option. If Blago was still in office i could have gotten this taken care of for a couple of dinner vouchers and a pair of theater tickets.

If i am able to get a pardon... Does anyone see any potential issues with me getting a FOID card?

Thanks.

Aguila Blanca
January 19, 2012, 10:45 PM
If i am able to get a pardon... Does anyone see any potential issues with me getting a FOID card?
Nope.

However, I don't think you are correct that all records of the arrest and conviction will disappear. I think they remain on the record, but they can no longer be used against you as disqualifying factors. Where the 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony, I think you still have to answer "yes," but perhaps one of the members here who is an FFL can read the instructions for that question and verify that.

Scimmia
January 20, 2012, 03:43 AM
Where the 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony, I think you still have to answer "yes," but perhaps one of the members here who is an FFL can read the instructions for that question and verify that.

Nope. If you answer yes to that question, you will not be sold a firearm, period. From the rules for 4473:

EXCEPTION to 11.c, and 11.i.: A person who has been convicted of a
felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the
person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor
crime of domestic violence, not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or
possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law of the jurisdiction where the
conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been
expunged or aside, or the person has had their civil rights (the right to vote,
sit on a jury, and hold public office) taken away and later restored AND (2)
the person is not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction
occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this
exception should answer "no" to 11.c. or 11.i., as applicable.

Baylorattorney
January 20, 2012, 05:34 AM
If you spend this much time on this it will get very expensive and all for nought. Same result each time. Issue is narrowed to this: Prohibited person pardonable? Probability >>> unrealistic.

Baylorattorney
January 20, 2012, 05:36 AM
Record is never destroyed or gone. Its a record. Pardon means your rights are restored, but anybody can find your record as if you had never been pardoned.

Baylorattorney
January 20, 2012, 05:44 AM
Well I hereby formally tender my withdrawal as counsel here. Let me know how it goes. I always enjoy hearing how the impossible is accomplished, especially in courts of law.

Aguila Blanca
January 20, 2012, 07:32 AM
Scimmia -- thank you. I stand corrected.

Baylorattorney -- what's your beef? A pardon does not take place within the court system. The OP asked how he might be able to obtain an FOID and buy gun. Collectively, we have (correctly, I believe) informed him that the options are (a) expungement, and (b) pardon.

I don't think anyone has misrepresented that either option would be easy, or likely to succeed.

markj
January 20, 2012, 05:52 PM
Where the 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony, I think you still have to answer "yes,"

You must answer yes there is a place you can enter conviction pardoned or as in my buds case conviction was set aside by a federal judge and attach the correct documents, the lawyer for the dept will look it over just to make sure it si OK then you should get a card. My bud has a CCP now in his possesion. The dept that reports his felony has to be notified so they will not report to nics if a call is made during a purchase. All legal, cost was a bit he had to find the right lawyer could work this out. It can be done, dont give up yet.

Aguila Blanca
January 20, 2012, 06:01 PM
You must answer yes there is a place you can enter conviction pardoned
Mark, see post #37 above.

Baylorattorney
January 24, 2012, 11:58 PM
Applicants who have been convicted of a felony are ineligible to receive a FOID card. However, an appeal procedure is available in accordance with 430 ILCS 65/10. Contact the ISP Firearms Services Bureau at (217) 782-7980 for further information.



Waste not want not. :)

Baylorattorney
January 25, 2012, 12:05 AM
I don't have a "beef". I was just talking real world options. Pardons aren't handed out like bumper stickers so likely isn't a real option. Expungement isn't even an option, so you haven't correctly stated the OPs options. One visit to the state's (Il) website regarding FOID will show there is an appeals process, which seems to be the most viable real world option for the OP and I don't think it was mentioned until now.


Waste not want not. :)

Rifleman1776
January 25, 2012, 09:15 AM
I have served on a public board that heard cases of people who violated certain licensing laws in our state.
Might be opening yourself to a perjury charge if you answered 'No'
True.
We often heard as an excuse, "The records were sealed/expunged or it happened before I was 17 years old, etc., etc....."
No matter. Answering "no" is a lie and often is perjury.
Whether sealed or expunged often makes no difference. This area of law is constantly changing in states and by the Feds.
Plus court records are often (almost always) obtained by private firms and the FBI before any sealing or expungement is ordered. Those records remain forever.
Our agency had authority to search FBI records and, invariably, those arrests and convictions were discovered.
There are consequences for commiting crimes and those consequences will follow you to the grave.

Aguila Blanca
January 25, 2012, 11:03 AM
No matter. Answering "no" is a lie and often is perjury.
Even when the instructions for answering the question tell you explicitly to answer "no"? (Referring to the 4473)

44 AMP
January 25, 2012, 04:59 PM
Not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that following the instructions on the (or for the ) form is the correct way to proceed. AND be capable of producing proof that you are pardoned/expunged/set aside, when needed.

Again, you should have a good firearms law lawyer advise you on the correct manner of proceeding. Not sure how to find one of those, but contacting you state rifle & pistol association/NRA might be a good start. Also look for a firm that advertises their expertise in firearms law. And don't expect them to be cheap.

Sadly, the only cheap leagal advice that's worth what you pay for it is the free kind you get on the forum. The lawyer you used before did not serve your interests. Based on what you reported, I would consider them to have ripped you off.

If you're not an NRA member, join. Other than getting asked for donations (alot:D) there's no real downside, and being a member can be beneficial in many ways.

Clearly you were a "bad boy" in your youth, it will be an uphill (and expensive) battle to "proove" you have changed, and changed permanently for the better. I wish you well, and hope you have the ability to both afford and endure the process. Don't give up hope.

Also, please note that it is very difficult for us to recognize sarcasm in posts, even when you include the emoticon faces. And we are very sensitive to anyone even remotely appearing to advocate ANY illegal action. Adding a note clearly stating a statement is sarcasm is about the only way to be sure of not being misunderstood.