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deerslayer303
January 17, 2012, 09:10 AM
So I've been watching Hell on Wheels. And of course I want a Griswold and Gunnison. Historically was the Griswold brass framed? And what are the other "Confederate" made firearms? I'm looking around on the web, but you guys are the best "search engine" when it comes to this stuff. :D

Beagle333
January 17, 2012, 11:10 AM
I don't know much about em, but I did see in the latest DGW flyer that they had a few of them for sale and told a paragraph about their history.
Scroll down to page 4 or so.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/santas-bag.pdf

MJN77
January 17, 2012, 12:00 PM
Yes, a Griswold and Gunnison revolver was a brass framed, round barreled .36 caliber copy of a 1851 Colt navy. Not the .44 cal brass frame octogon barrel "navys" everyone sells. Cabela's sells a G&G. Other confederate revolvers that are reproduced are, the Dance and bros. revolver, a .44 cal copy of a dragoon, with a flat frame and a Spiller & Burr, anothe brass framed .36, but it is a copy of a Whitney revolver. Kinda looks like a small frame Remington. Cabela's sells all of these revolvers. Also, there is a Uberti made copy of a confederate Leech & Rigdon, another 1851 navy copy with a round barrel and a steel frame. Unfortunatly, the current L&R copies have the ingraved cylinder of a 1851 navy which isn't correct, so the gun is just a round barreled 1851.

Jim Watson
January 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
I noted in the HoW finale that Cullen was brandishing a brass framed revolver otherwise like an 1860 Colt. Total bogus.

Fingers McGee
January 17, 2012, 01:45 PM
Pretty much what MJN77 said.

The Uberti L&Rs can be found with the correct blank cylinder. They seem to alternate making roll engraved and blank cylinder models. My newest one - from 2007 - has a blank cylinder. Pietta also made a Leech and Rigdon for Navy Arms with blank cylinder. The Uberti & Pietta blank cylinder models turn up on GA, GB, and AA from time to time.

Then there is the illusive Schneider and Glassick. It was brass framed .36 with octagonal barrel & blank cylinder. A number of replica makers have sold these over the years. EMF and Dixie still list the Pietta version with the roll engraved cylinder.

I noted in the HoW finale that Cullen was brandishing a brass framed revolver otherwise like an 1860 Colt. Total bogus.

He's been toting it the entire series. There is a plethora of non-historically correct weaponry used in HOW.

Doc Hoy
January 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
I don't know how acceptable this is, but I refer to the round barrel associated with the G&G and L&R as a "dragoon barrel" because of it's appearance.

Hardcase
January 17, 2012, 05:39 PM
Seems like I've noticed an awful lot of brass-framed revolvers in that show - other than Bohannan's . I'm not complaining - it's a very good series. They just catch my eye is all. I'm almost positive that I saw a brass Remington in one episode. Maybe it was a Spiller and Burr, but given the paltry number of them made, I dunno...

Jim Watson
January 17, 2012, 05:55 PM
He's been toting it the entire series. There is a plethora of non-historically correct weaponry used in HOW.

I am pretty sure he started out with a close copy of the G&G and Elam had the fako '60 for the big gunfight. Prop man just did not give them their usual guns for the last episode.

Seems like I've noticed an awful lot of brass-framed revolvers in that show

Yes, there was brass everything in the hanging scene where everybody had a gun drawn.


But WHY?
Prop department on a budget and using the less expensive brass repros?
Thought the non-enthusiast audience would like the bling? (Note the total absence of any long gun except '66s.)

Fingers McGee
January 17, 2012, 07:47 PM
I don't know how acceptable this is, but I refer to the round barrel associated with the G&G and L&R as a "dragoon barrel" because of it's appearance.

Perfectly acceptable to me Doc. I refer to them that way myself.

Seems like I've noticed an awful lot of brass-framed revolvers in that show - other than Bohannan's . I'm not complaining - it's a very good series. They just catch my eye is all. I'm almost positive that I saw a brass Remington in one episode. Maybe it was a Spiller and Burr, but given the paltry number of them made, I dunno...

You are correct. It was a brass framed Remington clone

I am pretty sure he started out with a close copy of the G&G and Elam had the fako '60 for the big gunfight. Prop man just did not give them their usual guns for the last episode.

He's been using the same brass framed 1860 since episode 1 - except in the church scene - that was a L&R non-gun. In the background videos on the website, the propmaster calls the brass framed 1860 a Griswold (not Griswold & Gunnison) and said there were 100,000 of them made before they blew up the plant. Wrong on all counts.

There have been some rather interesting, and lengthy threads over on CAS City about not only the guns; but, the whole lack of accuracy of the series.

Slamfire
January 17, 2012, 07:58 PM
Will a brass frame revolver hold up as well as a steel framed, I mean the Colt types?

All you have is this base pin in a chunck of brass.

I don’t know if the Confederates were able to make steel. They made cast iron. Might have had wrought iron. They were so hard up for materials that they used brass and lead whenever they could.

This Confederate scabbard, next to an Ames, shows an example of the primitive materials and workmanship used in Confederate weapons. The scabbard throat is missing, lost at some point, looking inside you can see how the scabbard is made of a wrapped metal, and the seams are lead soldered. The scabbard mounts are brass, lead soldered to the body. The Ames is nicely brazed steel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/swords/Confederate%20Scabbard/DSCN1534leadaroundband.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/swords/Confederate%20Scabbard/DSCN1531insidethroat.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/swords/Confederate%20Scabbard/DSCN1519bottomband.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/swords/Confederate%20Scabbard/DSCN1522Scabbarddrag.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/swords/Confederate%20Scabbard/DSCN1542AmesBrazing.jpg

Southron
January 17, 2012, 09:55 PM
You can buy them, but any brass frame revolver will "loosen up" after several hundred rounds. Brass has a tendency to stretch.

My recommendation, get them for Wall Hangers and then get steel frame revolvers to actually shoot-they will last a lot longer and be more accurate over the long term.

Fingers McGee
January 17, 2012, 11:46 PM
You can buy them, but any brass frame revolver will "loosen up" after several hundred rounds. Brass has a tendency to stretch.

As long as moderate charges are used, even a brasser will last thousands of rounds. But, if you load max charges, they won't last even hundreds of rounds.

MJN77
January 18, 2012, 04:21 AM
What Fingers said.

Slamfire
January 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
You can buy them, but any brass frame revolver will "loosen up" after several hundred rounds. Brass has a tendency to stretch.


Thanks. Glad my Uberti Rem 1858 is steel.

Jbar4Ranch
January 18, 2012, 12:03 PM
Most were brass, but a few iron framed versions were made.

This one has been on gunbroker for several months, maybe even a year or more.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269337401

Doc Hoy
January 19, 2012, 09:54 AM
If you load using the loading lever, you put a lot of stress on the frame during the loading process. On a Colt all of that stress is focused as tension on the arbor/frame union.

AND,

Loosening of the arbor is not the only damage to the frame to be considered. In addition you have the cylinder impressions on the recoil shield.

bobn
January 19, 2012, 10:00 AM
back when we used to purchase stuff that movie actors used instead pf playing them on a video games> all of us got euroarms black powder pistols with brass frames. shot them with full cylinders for several years. no internet so we didnt know that it wouldnt work....bobn


ps also had a hawken, a dark green mustang, etc. lol you get the picture.

mykeal
January 19, 2012, 02:34 PM
all of us got euroarms black powder pistols with brass frames. shot them with full cylinders for several years.
Um, speak for yourself, please. Some of us knew better.

bobn
January 19, 2012, 07:51 PM
hmm

Hardy
January 20, 2012, 06:59 PM
The 36 like old CVA's are just like the colt 1851 navys except the brass frame. The brand new piettas probably don't have as strong as braSS AS THEY DID IN THE 70'S And of course the originals. I recommend 36c brass revolvers over the 44's for the fact they are more historically correct and they use a lighter and safer load. Did the old factories make navy style 44's back then or is that something that came later? If the cylinder grooved pin shifts -then you have an unfafe brass gun. Alway make sure the hammer goes in 3 cocks and loading plunger drops easy in chamber at six oclock when cocked.

Fingers McGee
January 20, 2012, 07:27 PM
Did the old factories make navy style 44's back then or is that something that came later?

.44 cal Navy pattern revolvers (octagonal barrel, Navy, SAA sized grips) are a modern (1960s) invention by the replica manufacturers

gyvel
January 20, 2012, 08:02 PM
If I recall correctly, Iver Johnson made a pretty fair repro of a Griswold & Gunnison in the late 60s or early 70s. They show up occasionally.

Hardy
January 20, 2012, 08:13 PM
yeah I was thinking inthe 1860's the south didn't make 44 c open top navy's. Right? I believe the brass was stonger then too and also in the 1960's. I don't like brand new 44c brass open tops.

Hawg Haggen
January 21, 2012, 08:51 AM
yeah I was thinking inthe 1860's the south didn't make 44 c open top navy's. Right? I believe the brass was stonger then too and also in the 1960's. I don't like brand new 44c brass open tops.

In the 1860's there were no brass frame .44's open top or otherwise. In the 1860's brass frames were really a form of bronze. The brass used in the 1960's and 70's is the same brass they use now.

Rachen
January 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
I wish Pietta would reproduce the Kerr .44 double action revolver.

That is one big sidehammer revolver that gave the Starr a run for it's money and beat it in sales too.

The LeMat, Kerr, Webley, and Adams...the four guns used almost EXCLUSIVELY by Confederate forces, and had a significant impact on the battlefield.

If Pietta ever comes out with the Kerr, I am the first in line:)

I already have a LeMat, it is my main carry weapon. All I need is a Kerr as a backup.

Doc Hoy
January 21, 2012, 11:55 AM
Iver Johnson was associated with The re-release of the Colts. (Imperato et al).

I helped a friend with his Iver Johnson Peacemaker clone and the back strap and trigger guard looked like it was a dead ringer for prts form my 1851 Navy.

It certainly came apart the same way.

Fingers McGee
January 21, 2012, 12:43 PM
If I recall correctly, Iver Johnson made a pretty fair repro of a Griswold & Gunnison in the late 60s or early 70s. They show up occasionally.

High Standard made replicas of the Griswold & Gunnison, Leech and Rigdon, and Schneider and Glassick between 1974 and 1976. That might be what you are thinking of.

http://www.histandard.info/models/revolvers/blackpowder.html

Hardy
January 22, 2012, 07:25 PM
fingers, the brass in the 60's and 70's might have been a little bit stronger. Some of the CVA 's I have appear to be less bright (not from lack of brasso) and the screws fit in and out better than the new piettas. I haven't weighed them but um you might be right.

WBH

Hardy
January 22, 2012, 07:27 PM
Excuse me Fingers. Hawg posted the brass being the same. I get you guys confused at times:)

Fingers McGee
January 22, 2012, 11:29 PM
I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted. What do you think Hawg?

Hawg Haggen
January 23, 2012, 04:45 AM
I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted. What do you think Hawg?
I think I should be flattered, you should be insulted.:eek:

Hardy
January 23, 2012, 04:52 PM
Oh come on you guys. I lean more on ya'll for insults than anyone. I love your insults--it helps me learn better:D
WBH

Hardy
January 23, 2012, 04:54 PM
Here we go--both of yu are gonna say i know JS.

got ammo?
January 23, 2012, 05:40 PM
I've been watching Hell on Wheels too. pretty good series.
Here is a link you might find usefull: http://www.vincelewis.net/griswold.html

Hardy
January 23, 2012, 05:59 PM
In 1973 I bought one out of an antique store 20 miles frm Augusta GA for $80.00--I sold it in 1974 for $100.00.:mad:

It had Gunnison stamped on the right side of the brass frame-I think-long time ago-might have been on the barrel near the wedge. It had an X mark on the hammer hand. Why did it have an X stamped on the hammer hand?
WBH Maybe it was a forgery. Maybe not-but wish I still had it.

Hardy
January 23, 2012, 06:03 PM
The reason I know it had an X stamped on that part, is because when I shot it -it chained fired on me. I thought it was broken and took it apart. I later found out about greasing chambers.

Hawg Haggen
January 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
When have we insulted you Hardy?:confused:

Hardy
January 24, 2012, 05:46 PM
Yall never insulted me. I was playfully showing both of you respect. I'm still learning. I am not the best at internet talk. I luv both of yu. I guess I should of used constructive advise:D You guys know a lot. Now what about that X on the hammer hand?
WBH

Hawg Haggen
January 24, 2012, 06:04 PM
I have no clue.

Hardy
January 24, 2012, 08:03 PM
Thanks Hawg. I wish I still had to show photos but it was bought by someone a long time ago from Sylvania,GA.

I might be wrong, but I am thinking the hammer hand was brass. That couldn't be so-could it? It was an old gun though.

WBH

Hawg Haggen
January 25, 2012, 05:15 AM
Not likely unless it was a home fix. I've had a lot of guns over the years that had broken parts brazed. Still got a couple.

gyvel
January 25, 2012, 11:30 PM
High Standard made replicas of the Griswold & Gunnison, Leech and Rigdon, and Schneider and Glassick between 1974 and 1976. That might be what you are thinking of.

Yes! You are correct! My faulty memory. I can remember looking at one in Bill Jackson's Sporting Goods, in St. Petersburg, FL in the early 70s.

This is what happens when you get old.:(