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hangglider
January 13, 2012, 08:41 PM
Since getting my CCW--whenever my friends ask me out for an evening of bar hopping, I routinely leave the firearm behind. Even if I do drink without carrying, I now restrict myself to 2 beers at most--I don't want to get nailed for DUI.

The irony of it is that running around the sometimes seamy parts of town means the chances of a bad event are probably somewhat elevated. But I believe the mere possession of a loaded weapon with alcohol present or imbibed of any volume is a crime itself--permit or not (may vary from state to state).

I know that one solution is to have a "designated CCW non-drinker" in your group--but that's not always possible in my situation. How do others deal with this situation? (I'm not lurking or trolling to get someone in trouble).

cheyenne'sfinest
January 13, 2012, 09:01 PM
i just leave mine in the truck, but i can't "bar hop". i'm 18... been in the situation though. regardless of age or where i'm at mine is always at least in the truck

Don H
January 13, 2012, 09:13 PM
It's legal to drink and carry in Utah unless one is impaired (the impairment standard is the same as that for driving a vehicle). If I choose to have a glass of wine with dinner, I feel just as safe and responsible to carry as I do to drive home...and it would be just as legal.

Crankgrinder
January 13, 2012, 09:43 PM
i dont know your states disposition but i woulnt count on it that the law anywhere wouldnt stretch the word "impairment" in Texas it has become .08 which pretty much means any alcohol at all or anything they want it to. i ve been in a few ordeals in some seedy bars here where i live and id have to say im far more afraid of the cops and prosecutors than i am of the criminals and id have to take my chances there instead.

motorhead0922
January 13, 2012, 11:51 PM
Whether you drink or not, in many states it's illegal to carry into a bar (defined as an establishment where >51% of income comes from alcohol).

Of course, we have no way of knowing if that applies since you don't have your state listed in your profile.

Justice06RR
January 14, 2012, 12:14 AM
I'm in the same situation as the OP. Leave the EDC in the car (glove compartment or locked case) when going out to the bars or your typical watering holes. Its mostly illegal to carry in a bar/club anyway.

The only event you could carry and drink would be a house party, and even then I would be very careful depending on the people there and how much alchohol is consumed.

kinggabby
January 14, 2012, 12:35 AM
The only alcohol drinking I do will be at home.

Willie Lowman
January 14, 2012, 12:38 AM
Danger Will Robinson!

If you get into a situation where you must put holes in some jerks lungs the last thing you want is booze in your system.

There is a saying about how every bullet must have a lawyer attached to it. If you have been drinking (and therefore you judgement could be in question) you had best not be shooting unless it is a truly dire situation (and you have sober witnesses)

catnphx
January 14, 2012, 12:50 AM
If I know I'll take even one sip of alcohol, my guns stays at home. Try explaining that to a jury ... drinking and guns don't mix; it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Sport45
January 14, 2012, 02:16 AM
I pretty much outgrew drinking once I got married and started a family. I'll have a beer every now and then, but don't carry when I do.

TheNocturnus
January 14, 2012, 02:32 AM
Do what I did, give it up. What's more important to you?

hangglider
January 14, 2012, 03:25 AM
Yup--weapons and alcohol do not mix--though in TN it is in fact legal to carry in a bar (but not drink at the same time). 9 people got shot at a nightclub on Christmas day here.

cloud8a
January 14, 2012, 03:57 AM
If you want to go out drinking with your buddies but you want your gun for protection so your night of drinking is not ruined by a bad guy, you take your chances with fate and law. CCL laws are not designed around your desire to party. You are expected as a CCL holder to be level headed and responsible and NOT under the INFLUENCE. It is just like any other license, forklift, car, CDL, go down the list. Common sense will tell you it's a trade off. I believe that is a good thing.

GM2
January 14, 2012, 06:13 AM
Do what I did, give it up. What's more important to you?


Nocturnus31 is giving sage advise indeed.

FrederickDav
January 14, 2012, 06:31 AM
It's actually pretty easy to figure out. Should I drink or protect me and loved ones? I'll go for the protection.

Bailey Boat
January 14, 2012, 07:41 AM
First off I only drink at home on my property, and second, why do people go to "seedy" bars in the first place??? Can ya'll not find reputable establishments to do your drinking??? Even during my bar hopping days there were places I wouldn't go because of the clientele or the looks of the place, use some better judgement!!!

hangglider
January 14, 2012, 09:15 AM
Here in the south bar hopping/dinner restaurants is a very social thing that all segments of the city population do. Keep in mind I already said my firearm stays home if I know I'm going to have a drink--and even if I don't drink it still stays home if others with me might be drinking. Although the law here allows it--I personally consider the mix too volatile for me to effectively and knowingly deal with. And what drinking I do has dropped to near zero since getting CCW--but I still get invited to parties and such, and as a single guy the opportunities to mix with women in a non-drinking environment--well, you get the idea.

Vermonter
January 14, 2012, 11:42 AM
Like anything else you have to draw your own line. What is legal may not be smart and what is smart may not be legal. In VT i can take a gun more places than most of you can bars included.

If im headed out to get blitzed (has only happened once in the last 4 years) no gun is coming along. If im stopping with a buddy for a beer after work it stays in the holster. My point here is mindset. You should have your own code of common sense and stick to that.

Thanks, Vermonter

Win62a
January 14, 2012, 11:54 AM
Alcohol impairs the hell out of your situational awareness.

McMoore
January 14, 2012, 12:12 PM
WOW, after reading each post I have come to the following conclusions.

They reflect honor, respect, and loyalty. I only wish the “general” public could read and understand these posts. From what I see in the paper, there appears to be fear or loathing of those who carry. We are viewed as “gun slinging loonies with small brains looking for a fight”. What I see are law abiding citizens, respecting others to protect their families and friends.

I am proud to be a member of this group and not the “general” pubic.

KLRANGL
January 14, 2012, 12:48 PM
Virginia fits into a nice little loophole I suppose if you want to call it that. You can carry concealed into a "bar" (we don't technically have bars in this state) and not drink. We also cannot carry a firearm in public and be "intoxicated." That law cites three other laws: drunk in public, DUI, and I believe felony maiming. This means that if you get busted for one of those three laws, you will have a "possession of firearm while intoxicated" tacked on top if you're carrying.

Solution: Leave firearm in car while at the bar, and don't drive drunk. Pretty simple. You could also carry unconcealed and drink, but expect to be asked to leave in most places.

Here's another thing to consider: You can get a DUI without being over the legal limit. If you act like you're driving drunk and the officer can articulate that sufficiently in court, and say he smells alcohol on you when he pulls you over, you have a decent chance of getting a DUI without the breathalyzer even coming out.

TXGunNut
January 14, 2012, 01:07 PM
If I'm having dinner out with friends & family I'll carry but may (or may not) have one drink. I did the LE thing too long to be able to enjoy myself in bars. I don't go there, wouldn't go armed if I did. It's illegal in TX and probably a bad idea (at least) in other CCW states. A shooting that would be justified in any other circumstances would be very questionable in a bar. There's nothing in a bar worth jeopardizing my future over. Nothing.

kinggabby
January 14, 2012, 01:19 PM
There's nothing in a bar worth jeopardizing my future over. Nothing. If it is worth someones future over then they might as well get rid of their guns and hand over their CC license. Because they are headed down that path.

serf 'rett
January 14, 2012, 01:38 PM
running around the seamy parts of town
Don't go there.

Yup--weapons and alcohol do not mix
Correct.

9 people got shot at a nightclub on Christmas day here.
If that club is in the seamy part of town, then see first comment.

Here in the south bar hopping/dinner restaurants is a very social thing
Have lived in the South for 55+ years and haven't been bar hopping, yet I do many social things and Lord knows I've hit the eateries.

the opportunities to mix with women
Are you really interested in meeting women found in the seamy parts of town?

in a non-drinking environment
I thought the opening post was asking what others did in a drinking environment.

Anyhow, when you cross the Mississippi River into Arkansas, your question becomes moot as it's not legal to carry in a bar. As an additional thought, our state powers-which-be did not want to appear prejudiced against drunks so we can’t carry in church either.

FairWarning
January 14, 2012, 01:51 PM
It is unfortunate that most high end clubs and bars are either right in the middle of or just outside very seedy/dangerous areas, especially if you live near a major city. I have two vehicles, one rather expensive and one very average. I no longer take the expensive one to clubs or downtown much at all just because it draws all kinds of unwanted attention, both from would-be carjackers and police. I also drink very little these days. Better to be aware of the world around you at all times.

Regarding packing heat, from a common sense standpoint (and more importantly, the law) guns and heavy alcohol usage do not mix. The song "10 Feet Tall and Bulletproof" is based on fact.

jrothWA
January 14, 2012, 08:06 PM
don't carry or be the designated driver.

Reality its' just a catch for CPLers, given that on local TV after the "shall issue" passed in Michigan and the local station for the Tigers was showing the game and clown off the right rear corner of batters box. went to grab a foul.
On TV shows his semi-suto droppong out on the ground, he fumbles its with left hand as the right hand keep the beer bottle from leaking.

Was wildly criticized asn why gin owner s could not be trusted.

two days later is was revealed the person of deridement, was a Detroit cop, on-duty and undercover. :eek:

No further comments from the embarrassed news reader!

hangglider
January 14, 2012, 09:22 PM
Jroth--drinking while posting to a forum is illegal too :D

And for those of you who disdain drinking at all and/or going out clubbing--I finally figured out the REAL reasons for that too: 1) you stopped drinking because all that money going down the drain is needed to buy ammo to hurl money down-range instead; and 2) you don't go out on Friday or Saturday nights because you are either visiting the local GS or cleaning weapons.

Am I right? :D

KC Rob
January 14, 2012, 10:04 PM
Some good posts so far and I agree with a lot of what has been said. My personal choice is to not imbibe alcohol, I just don't see the point of intentionally impairing myself. I also see it a big waste of money among other things.

Fred_G
January 14, 2012, 10:16 PM
Some additional information. In Louisiana, DUI is .08. Your LA CCW is considered 'suspended' if you are .05 BAC.

So, for me, no drinking and guns. If I want to drink, I stay home, or find a safe place to drink.

"A permittee may not carry and conceal a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or a controlled dangerous substance (CDS) as defined in R.S. 40:961 and 964. For purposes of the concealed handgun law, a permittee is considered under the influence of alcohol when a blood alcohol reading of .05% or greater by weight of alcohol in the blood is obtained, or a blood or urine test shows any confirmed presence of a CDS.

The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be revoked by the deputy secretary when the permittee is carrying and concealing a handgun under any of the following circumstances:


The blood alcohol reading of the permittee is .05% or greater by weight of alcohol in the blood;


The permittee's blood test or urine test shows the confirmed presence of a CDS as defined in R.S. 40:961 and 964;


The permittee refuses to submit to a department certified chemical test when requested to do so by a law enforcement officer.

R.S. 40:1379.3(L) provides that anyone who carries and conceals a handgun in violation of any provision of this Section, unless authorized to do so by another provision of the law, shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both."

http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#duties

SwampYankee
January 14, 2012, 10:58 PM
In Rhode Island, it has been determined to be illegal to be intoxicated and armed, even in the privacy of your own home. With 0.08 BAC being the legal limit.

If I go out with my gun, I do not drink. It's unfortunate but all the cops know this judicial ruling.

It is what it is. Stop drinking or stop worrying. No other options in my state...

kinoons
January 15, 2012, 12:27 AM
I don't understand the total phobia between alcohol and firearms. In Europe is isn't unusual at all to get together for a glass or two of wine, shoot a match, and then have dinner and a more wine. No one gets shot at these matches.

In Nevada the legal limit for ccw carry (or open carry) is 0.10, higher than driving at 0.08. If you're in your home there is no limit, you can have your firearm. You can carry in any establishment regardless of alcohol being served or not.

Your possible alcohol level isn't the concern -- if it's a good shoot the weapon, ammo, or your alcohol level won't matter, it's a good shoot. If it's a bad one, nothing else matters.

I don't advocate for sloppy fall down drunk carry, but there is nothing wrong with a glass of wine or beer with dinner and carry.

TheNocturnus
January 15, 2012, 12:37 AM
I don't advocate for sloppy fall down drunk carry, but there is nothing wrong with a glass of wine or beer with dinner and carry.

Most state laws say otherwise. Also, if you are involved in a shooting do you want the defense attorney to have that weapon against you? They could simply say that you were impaired and acted irrationally.

Just remember what carrying a firearm entails. You have a deadly weapon in your posession and control. You have a huge responsibility and you represent a large group of individuals that also carry. Respect the permit and just leave the gun at home if you must drink.

kinggabby
January 15, 2012, 12:45 AM
Most state laws say otherwise. Also, if you are involved in a shooting do you want the defense attorney to have that weapon against you? They could simply say that you were impaired and acted irrationally.

Just remember what carrying a firearm entails. You have a deadly weapon in your possession and control. You have a huge responsibility and you represent a large group of individuals that also carry. Respect the permit and just leave the gun at home if you must drink. I agree. I also agree that you should be able to have 1 glass of wine or 1 beer and still be able to carry. But I also know in Oklahoma it is against the to carry under the influence of alcohol or drugs and in the law I have not seen where it gives a definition of what is determined to be under the influence. So it is best not to do it at all here. Stay home and be safe is the way I am going to be.

kinoons
January 15, 2012, 01:04 AM
Fortunately I do live in a state that is very clear on what is acceptable for firearm carry and alcohol consumption.

And in any case, I have offered a real example of mature and responsible adults using firearms and alcohol with no bad outcomes. Why is it necessary to not allow anyone to have the freedom to consume any amount of alcohol when carrying a firearm? Do we select only those freedoms that we want to have because they are important to ourselves?

If you are unable to have a single drink and stop, then don't carry yourself. Don't restrict those among us who are able to do so responsibly.


http://www.swissrifles.com/shooting/
(alcohol at Swiss ranges)

hangglider
January 15, 2012, 01:43 AM
I dunno--as one other poster already said I would be more worried about response from law community than the relative risk from BG's--though it is a tough choice. Given the general negative public attitudes towards drinking and driving I figure carrying and drinking is a quick path to ending up in serious trouble. Cops are nervous about concealed carries in vehicles as is--now throw in the additional wrinkle of possible impairment (their judgement, not yours) and it seems too risky to me.

Mello2u
January 15, 2012, 01:53 AM
Consider that many legislators in the various state legislatures, want their constituents to "feel" safe; not necessarily be safe.

They, therefore, write laws which presume that the individual should give up the choice to determine whether he/she is competent to make the judgment to drink an alcoholic beverage, carry a deadly weapon, and use it in self-defense if the situation is perceived to arise.

I would prefer that all laws were written considering three things:
1) Is there a conflict of rights?
2) If yes, then does the Constitution grant the power to the State to act to resolve the conflict?
3) If yes, is the law written to actually remedy the conflict and in the least intrusive manner possible?

As hard as it is to prove self-defense when no alcohol is involved, adding in to the fact pattern that the shooter/defendant had consumed alcohol . . . . well that makes it tougher for the defense.

How many people on the jury would be ready to condemn the defendant for bad judgement in choosing to both consume alcohol and carry a weapon? Then the next step for the jury is to think that the defendant continued in that bad judgment and that the defendant was not justified to use deadly force.

I accept that when I carry a concealed handgun I am willing to take verbal abuse (and such) and do every reasonable thing to avoid escalating to the use of deadly force. I also accept that I do not consume alcohol when I carry.

I rarely drink more than one alcoholic beverage on any day. A six pack of beer lasts me a couple of months, unless my sons get them first.

Shadi Khalil
January 15, 2012, 02:00 AM
When I used to drink and go bar hoping with my friends I'd usually end up blind drunk and belligerent. One of the many reasons I don't touch alcohol any more. When I did drink in the past, I'd make sure the guns were locked up for the night.

Sport45
January 15, 2012, 02:05 AM
In Europe is isn't unusual at all to get together for a glass or two of wine, shoot a match, and then have dinner and a more wine. No one gets shot at these matches.


Maybe no one gets shot but who gets the better scores, the ones that drink or the ones that don't?

I wouldn't mind passing a bottle around before a highpower match if I could get away with not drinking any myself. :)

mdd
January 17, 2012, 11:50 PM
95% of all the stupid, costly, embarassing and hurtful things I have done in my life I did while somewhere north of 0.08% BAC. Thankfully none have ever involved firearms. I choose to not drink these days but it's not for some moral hang-up or anything of that nature. Simply put, I'm better sober. Doesn't matter the situation or context, I am better sober.

You want to drink? Have at it. Just don't drive and don't carry.

hangglider
January 18, 2012, 07:06 AM
Your senses and responses get dulled with alcohol--that's a well-proven, scientifically documented fact Jack. I suppose there's a certain logic that practicing that way makes some sense--like practicing in low light. The fighter types (or players on women) experience a loosening of inhibitions.

Don P
January 18, 2012, 07:48 AM
My take is CCW and booze is the same as driving and booze. Neither is a good mix and should be avoided in the combinations above.
Booze impairs judgment and motor skills, bad mix with wheels and even a worse mix with a devise that can send objects at close to 1/4 mile per second (depending on caliber)

ChrisJ715
January 18, 2012, 08:37 AM
In KY, it is illegal to ccw in a place that serves alcohol by the drink. My friends and I have always agreed though, that legal or not, carrying and booze don't mix. We may have a few after a day at the range, but never before or during. In fact if we are going to be drinking, we divest ourselves of knives too.

Skans
January 18, 2012, 09:31 AM
If I drink at home, technically I'm in possession of a couple of NFA items in addition to handguns, etc.

Anyway,

First, don't drink and drive. Second, don't drink and carry. If you're not drinking and driving, then it doesn't matter whether your gun is on you or in your glove box. If you are going to drink (anywhere other than your own home), leave the car and the gun at home. Third, Going into a bar with a gun is always a bad idea in my opinion - regardless of laws.

zincwarrior
January 18, 2012, 10:39 AM
In Texas one cannot go to locations where 51% of revenues are made via alcohol sales (there are sepcific signs on those locations, but basically any bar). Additionally there is the default requirement that you cannot be impaired. It is important to tnote that IIRC the alochol standard has not been adjudicated. While .08 is the requirement for driving, any impairment may be sufficient.

zincwarrior
January 18, 2012, 10:41 AM
Fortunately I do live in a state that is very clear on what is acceptable for firearm carry and alcohol consumption.

And in any case, I have offered a real example of mature and responsible adults using firearms and alcohol with no bad outcomes. Why is it necessary to not allow anyone to have the freedom to consume any amount of alcohol when carrying a firearm? Do we select only those freedoms that we want to have because they are important to ourselves?

If you are unable to have a single drink and stop, then don't carry yourself. Don't restrict those among us who are able to do so responsibly.


http://www.swissrifles.com/shooting/
(alcohol at Swiss ranges)

You're arguing like we have a choice. most don't. Others don't feel the need to take the risk. Alcohol is not particularly important to them.

kinggabby
January 18, 2012, 10:42 AM
I would not even have a sip if I am out and about when I have my gun with me. Seeing how some states don't define what it is to be impaired or under the influence . So they could say one sip and you are UTI. So I don't even want to take the risk. If you want to drink get it from the store and take it home.

Underdog101
January 18, 2012, 11:09 AM
A very experienced and wise person told me many years ago:

#1: Don't do stupid stuff.

#2: Don't go to stupid places.

#3: Don't hang out with stupid people.

It has served me well and I try to pass it along when appropriate.

Baylorattorney
January 18, 2012, 03:10 PM
Alcohol and guns is asking for trouble if out and about.

bumnote
January 18, 2012, 04:13 PM
If I showed up at my range with a tablespoon of beer, my butt's getting tossed out the door...because its not safe. So why should it be any different when I carry? Why can't police have just one single drink while on duty? It's not safe and it impares judgement. Both of us could find ourselves needing to use a firearm in SD in the same exact manner under the same circumstances...and they have more training than 99% of us so why should it be different for Joe Citizen? I can carry in VA at a bar, if I don't drink...which makes perfect sense to me. If I'm not going to enjoy myself or have as much fun, my problem isn't with laws, my problem is with alcohol.

GlockedNLoded32
January 18, 2012, 04:53 PM
Im 22 years old and I live in Texas and have my CHL I have become more responsible as a young adult do to the fact that I have taken on the responsibility's of being a CHL Holder. I have found that I can still go out and have fun without having a drink. its better to have a sound mind and make good judgments than to be impaired and take the chance of messing up the rest of my life to alcohol and firearms

12GaugeShuggoth
January 18, 2012, 05:08 PM
+1 to everything GlockedNLoded32 said above me^^^^. If I want to get a good buzz or whatever, I choose to stay home or just go to a close friends' house. Even disregarding CC while drinking, I just can't find a good reason to go "out drinking" instead of staying in; too many stupid people out there to be worth it IMHO. I did the whole clubbing thing before I started CC'ing, and don't miss a second of it.

Basic rule is guns and alcohol don't make a good combination. Adding drunk and potentially combative strangers to the mix.........me thinks not. Also:

95% of all the stupid, costly, embarassing and hurtful things I have done in my life I did while somewhere north of 0.08% BAC.

So true, so true, I would expect for a lot of people; we all live and learn!

markj
January 18, 2012, 05:13 PM
I used to tend bar, did it for years. I quit drinking somewhere in that, I saw folks after one drink, or many drinks. I sure dont ever wish to act like they do just cause I was drunk. Saw a guy smash a full bottle of beer on his wifes head.... saw folks pass out and pee all over my floor which I had to clean up. Then lets go over to the bathrooms.... yeck both were bad after a friday or saturday nite of fun.....

drunk people turn me off.

TexasJustice7
January 18, 2012, 05:16 PM
GlockNLoaded32: Im 22 years old and I live in Texas and have my CHL I have become more responsible as a young adult do to the fact that I have taken on the responsibility's of being a CHL Holder. I have found that I can still go out and have fun without having a drink. its better to have a sound mind and make good judgments than to be impaired and take the chance of messing up the rest of my life to alcohol and firearms _

I complement you on a mature attitude in my opinion toward concealed carry and alcohol. At that young age, I had neither CHL nor a mature attitude. I too live in Texas. :D

GlockedNLoded32
January 18, 2012, 05:19 PM
Thank you TexasJustice7 for the compliment.

Nnobby45
January 18, 2012, 07:26 PM
In my state, the standard for CCW is the same as for driving. In Nevada, there aren't many places that don't serve alchohol and have slots, with, typically, the bar and dining room adjoined, or even in the same room.


Your only option would be to travel thru the state utilizing fast food only or bypass all small towns.

It's not recommended that any alcohol be consumed, however, since that can become a club to beat you over the head with---in civil court, if not criminal. Any alcohol on the breath at all, after a shooting, will bring you under strict scrutiny.

ConlawBloganon
January 18, 2012, 07:31 PM
In GA, you can lawfully carry in a bar and drink. Half of my social activities used to revolve around bar trivia, and I preferred to slowly work on one or two beers, rather than chug water or soda and explain to everyone that I had a gun. :D

wayneinFL
January 18, 2012, 08:06 PM
If I showed up at my range with a tablespoon of beer, my butt's getting tossed out the door...because its not safe.

A tablespoon of beer is not safe? Really? I kinda understand if they have to draw the line somewhere but if you think any beer at all is inherently unsafe, you probably shouldn't shoot in the afternoon or evening when you're tired, shouldn't shoot when you have a cold, and shouldn't ever talk to anyone while shooting.

Coyote_Buster700
January 18, 2012, 08:15 PM
^agreed

bumnote
January 18, 2012, 08:18 PM
My point was having beer at the range. I thought that was pretty clear. The amount is inconsequential, I purposely used a ridiculously small amount as a demonstration. :rolleyes:

hangglider
January 18, 2012, 08:36 PM
Might want to reconsider carrying and drinking in that GA bar:

"TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 11. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND SAFETY
ARTICLE 4. DANGEROUS INSTRUMENTALITIES AND PRACTICES
PART 3. CARRYING AND POSSESSION OF FIREARMS

O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127 (2011)

§ 16-11-127. Carrying weapons in unauthorized locations; penalty

(1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets. "

Firearms can only be brought in with express permission of the bar owner--but that's a far cry from a blanket "lawfully." The use of firearms is a little vague in reference to where and when with alchohol (except under the general threat to life and under .08)--but considering all the roadblock checkpoints and dragnets I've experienced driving through GA--well, ya take ya chances.

Fred_G
January 18, 2012, 08:44 PM
OT, sorry Bumnote, no offense to you, but I am trying to picture someone unloading their range bag and such, and walking up to the range, all the while balancing a teaspoon of beer in their other hand... :):)

bumnote
January 18, 2012, 08:52 PM
I'd pay to see someone try to pull that off. :)

bikerbill
January 21, 2012, 04:50 PM
My wife and I went out for lunch today at our favorite local Mexican restaurant ... my rule is, I don't drink when carrying, and I had my faithful PM9 on my hip ... I broke my rule to have a beer, probably the first time in two or three years that I've had any alcohol while armed. I don't recommend it, I'll try not to do it again, and I have to say I think it's a bad idea. One beer with a full lunch (including excellent refried beans) isn't going to cause me any problems, but it's a slipperly slope I don't like sitting at the top of.

wayneinFL
January 22, 2012, 11:09 AM
My point was having beer at the range. I thought that was pretty clear. The amount is inconsequential, I purposely used a ridiculously small amount as a demonstration.

My point is that no one is ever at 100% to begin with. You're always impaired to some extent. If you're talking to someone, distracted, not feeling well, tired, or taking Benadryl, you're already impaired to some extent. Your range says no alcohol whatsoever, because they have to draw the line somewhere, not because having a beer or two makes you unsafe.

There are plenty of reasons to abstain from drinking any amount of alcohol while carrying. Liability would be one. Maybe you're one of those people who just can't stop when you've had one beer. It could be illegal in your state. But I don't see it as inherently unsafe to have a small level of alcohol in your system.

catnphx
January 22, 2012, 02:09 PM
wayneinFL said: But I don't see it as inherently unsafe to have a small level of alcohol in your system.

If we agree that alcohol impairs judgement (good luck trying to say it doesn't) ... you don't need that when carrying a weapon. We carry a weapon for protection and a jury will strongly consider that your judgement was flawed in the event you have to protect yourself with any level of alcohol in your system. If you want to go down that dangerous path then good luck to you ... your fantasy just might become a nightmare.

zxcvbob
January 22, 2012, 02:19 PM
My self-imposed limit when I'm carrying is 1 beer. (that doesn't mean I'll drink one, it just means I'm allowed one) For the whole evening.

I've read somewhere that MN defines the BAC limit for carrying as 0.04% -- half the limit for driving, but I haven't looked that up in the statutes myself.

hangglider
January 22, 2012, 02:31 PM
My favorite Clintism is "There's a lawyer attached to every round you fire."

Bob M.
January 22, 2012, 02:56 PM
Gave up drinking many decades ago. Even if I did drink, I would never mix the two. Just like anything else, driving/operating machinery is something you should never do while intoxicated. :)

Fred_G
January 22, 2012, 03:13 PM
If you do have one beer, better watch out for some of the imports... They can range from 7% up to 40%:eek:

Tengu01
January 23, 2012, 01:36 PM
I'm kind of riding the fence with this one , and this is a situation that I've often thought about .

There was a story of some Einstein that was carrying one night while was was drinking heavily . While he didn't have to pull his weapon that night , he DID , however , leave his weapon on the toilet tank after he took a dump , zipped up , and walked out of the stall . By the time El Dumb-Ass knew what was up , and he went back to retreave his weapon , it was gone , as well as the dude that stole it . :eek:

If you can't limit yourself , you've got no business carrying .

I think Dirty Harry said it best when he said " A man's got to know his limitations " . :cool:

Onward Allusion
January 23, 2012, 01:41 PM
If you can't limit yourself , you've got no business carrying .

The flipside is, if you can't limit yourself, you've got no business drinking. ;)

Tengu01
January 23, 2012, 01:46 PM
;)There it is .

Frank Ettin
January 23, 2012, 02:09 PM
Yes, there it is. And so let's end this one before we get any deeper into the "alcohol has no effect on me" nonsense.