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bqglock
January 12, 2012, 06:40 PM
I am just curious. if you were hunting coyote, deer, elk, or grizzly bear what wound be the smallest round you would use for each individually? as well as the biggest you would use. I want real responses, obviously you can use a .50 BMG for coyote but it wouldn't be practical.

warbirdlover
January 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
Smallest -- Biggest

coyote - .223 - .300 Win Mag if I could afford it
deer - .243 - .300 Win Mag
elk - .270 - .375 H&H
grizzly bear - .300 Win Mag - .416 Rigby

30-30remchester
January 12, 2012, 07:30 PM
Having never shot a grizzly bear, I cant speak of them, however I was a big game guide and have seen hundreds of deer and elk killed. Have also shot 51 coyotes with various calibers from 22lr to 375 H&H. This is actually a difficult question to answer, I just saw a huge bull elk killed with a single shot from a little 257 Roberts. I knew a man that hunted elk sucsessfully with a Savage 99 in 250-3000. But for the AVERAGE hunter without the skills of these oldtimers, the key isnt as much about caliber as it is about skill in shot placement and quality bullets.

RaySendero
January 12, 2012, 07:37 PM
The smallest I would use would be a 270.

And H3ll Yeah - Put me down for the 50 BMG on the yotes!!!

MikeRussell
January 12, 2012, 07:41 PM
Coyote - .223, 6.8, .308
Deer - 6.8, .308
Elk - 6.8 (close range), .308 (all around), 7mag (long range)
Bear - .308, 12ga slugs

Based on that, you can figure out what my all purpose cartridge is. ;)

Edward429451
January 12, 2012, 08:00 PM
The smallest I would use on:

Deer .308 Win.
Elk .308 Win.
Griz. 45/70 Govt.
Coyote .223 Rem.

Based on what I own.

warbirdlover
January 12, 2012, 08:02 PM
MikeRussell,

You'd shoot a grizzly with a .308?

Shotgun693
January 12, 2012, 08:33 PM
coyote .22 Hornet .243 I'd want to preserve the pelt
deer .357 .30-06 to preserve the meat
elk .30-06 .45-70 to preserve the meat and pelt
grizzly bear .45-90 .375 H&H to preserve my pelt and meat

JACK308
January 12, 2012, 08:44 PM

MikeRussell
January 12, 2012, 09:06 PM

rtpzwms
January 12, 2012, 09:23 PM
If the average weight of a elk is about 2x that of an average grizzly bear why do you need a larger caliber for the bear?

Deja vu
January 12, 2012, 09:27 PM
I only shoot 4 different bullets so my choices will reflect those.

For Coyotes: Smallest I use is a 17HMR, biggest 45/70
For Deer: Smallest 357 magnum biggest 45/70
For elk: smallest 45/70 Biggest 45/70
For Bear: 45/70

farmerboy
January 12, 2012, 10:09 PM
Shoot anything and everything with a 308 all the way to a 30-06.

Shotgun693
January 12, 2012, 10:10 PM
If the average weight of a elk is about 2x that of an average grizzly bear why do you need a larger caliber for the bear?

Because an Elk won't attack and eat you.

Brian Pfleuger
January 12, 2012, 10:25 PM
Coyote: Min, 204Ruger, max, none

Deer: Min, 22-250, max, none

Elk: Min, 243, max, none

Grizzly: Min 7mm-08, max, none

I don't believe in overkill, per say. "Overkill" applies only to my shoulder.

AllenJ
January 12, 2012, 10:37 PM
Coyote - .22LR - 30/06
Deer - .243 - .300 Win Mag
Elk - 30/06 - .375 H&H
Grizzly bear - .338 Win Mag - .458 Win Mag

bqglock
January 12, 2012, 11:44 PM
The grzze's vitals are more protected it has more fur and fat where it needs to be.

farmerboy
January 12, 2012, 11:49 PM
Shoot the Griz I'n the head.

warbirdlover
January 13, 2012, 01:13 AM
Man, I would NEVER go after a grizzly with a .308 or 7mm-08 or anything in that size. I've read story's where guides have emptied a .300 Win Mag into them and they didn't stop. I've had whitetail doe take three .308 150 gr. in the lungs and not drop. Kind of like the movie "Blazing Saddles" where the sheriff is putting on his gun to go help the townspeople with "Mongo" and his buddy says "don't shoot him, you'll only make him mad"! :D

rtpzwms
January 13, 2012, 02:16 AM
Quote:
If the average weight of a elk is about 2x that of an average grizzly bear why do you need a larger caliber for the bear?
Because an Elk won't attack and eat you.
would not bet the house on elk not attacking, deer can and do attack from time to time. true they won't eat you the way a grizzly will but they too can kill.
Man, I would NEVER go after a grizzly with a .308 or 7mm-08 or anything in that size. I've read story's where guides have emptied a .300 Win Mag into them and they didn't stop

I've read stories where they have been killed by bow and arrow.

The grzze's vitals are more protected it has more fur and fat where it needs to be.
True but what about the projectile choice is or would that be more important?
Shoot the Griz I'n the head.
pretty hard head so again wouldn't the projectile choice be critical?

would anyone here do it with a handgun/handcannon?

my point is that this is more about what each considers acceptable risk more than caliber.

farmerboy
January 13, 2012, 02:43 AM
I've seen a Griz get shot I'n head with an arrow and drop. So i wouldn't be afraid of hitting one I'n head with a 30-06 or even with a 30-30 for that matter.

FrankenMauser
January 13, 2012, 05:45 AM
Out of what I have available:

Min - .22 WMR
Max - .444 Marlin

The animal in question doesn't really matter.

Bigfatts
January 13, 2012, 07:00 AM
Coyote:.22 wmr and up
Deer: 6.5x55- whatever
Elk: .30-06 and up
Grizzly: 458 WM and up

Lots of people in this thread I think would be dead if it came to real life and Grizzly bears. Sure lots of small calibers, heck a bunch have probably fallen to the .30-30, doesn't mean you could do it if needed. I too have seen them taken with bows on the tv, I also saw the guy with the big bore rifle standing behind the bow shooter. Say you're walking through thick brush looking for Grizzly, lo and behold a 12 ft bear stands up out of the brush 40 feet from you. You'd be glad if you weren't holding a .308, if you were- you'd be lunch. Bears move ridiculously fast when they want to. And yes you could shoot it in the head, if you can hit something tennis ball sized that's bobbing and weaving and approaching at an alarming rate of speed. My.02

MikeRussell
January 13, 2012, 07:57 AM
MikeRussell,

You'd shoot a grizzly with a .308?

Yep, if the conditions were right, I'd use my compound bow. But, I'd have a .454Cassul (sp?) as backup in case it turned into a self defense type situation.

What most are missing here is that the question involved HUNTING, not self defense from a charging animal.

Bigfatts
January 13, 2012, 08:47 AM
What most are missing here is that the question involved HUNTING, not self defense from a charging animal.

But that's the thing, when hunting dangerous game it can quickly turn into self defense. That's something that should always be considered in bear country. I have seen a real live huffing and puffing 12 ft Grizzly too close for comfort and let me tell you, there is not too much gun for that critte this side of a Howitzer.

Brian Pfleuger
January 13, 2012, 08:56 AM
Yeah, but people hunt dangerous animals with small or low energy weapons every day.
They hunt water buffalo and elephants with long bows.
Alaskan natives hunt polar bears with 223.
One must wonder how, if you need a 300winmag to successfully hunt grizzly, the early settlers managed with single shot, low power, black powder guns.

MikeRussell
January 13, 2012, 09:04 AM
Bigfatts, I understand that, but there also seems to be a progression towards overkill. However, you should note what I said would come with on a bow hunt as backup (I'd consider a .44Mag to be minimum for large dangerous game).

For example, I live in South Louisiana where deer are not huge and long shots just don't happen...yet, there are guys screaming that you NEED a 7 Mag or bigger to kill a deer (that if you are lucky may tip the scales at 180lbs). Now, having lived for a while in Washington state & hunted/killed elk easily with a .308W, I just can't see needing a magnum cartridge to kill smaller game. Part if it (I think) is compensation for poor marksmanship, "keeping up with the Joneses", or some other form of compensation. When I go to sight in at the range, I see these guys & they are lucky to make a 1in group at 25yrds, meanwhile my wife (a fairly inexperienced shooter) is making 1.5in groups at 100yrds with her 6.8SPC (which delivers enough force to drop a deer at 300yrds & there are rarely shots that far out down here).

tahunua001
January 13, 2012, 09:07 AM
coyote - anything larger than rimfire(my state law minimum) - .243
deer - .223 - 303 brit or 30-06
elk - .270 - .300 weatherby mag
grizzly bear - 30-06 - 45-70

I feel comfortable going hunting with the bare minimums listed, that does not mean that you cant take it with something smaller. my family regularly used to take deer with 22lr when we lived in a state without ammo restrictions, would I ever try it? probably not but it can be done if you are at a decent range, shooting at a decent target. I know you are just trying to get a consensus but these type of threads almost always deteriorate into name calling and discussions on the proper respect for the game you hunt. pack what you feel comfortable with and let the interweb be damned.

Bigfatts
January 13, 2012, 09:26 AM
Oh I see the trend towards the ultra mega boomers and I understand and find it silly. But my personal opinion is that you should use a gun/caliber that will take the animal cleanly and humanely while protecting your own hide. Some may be able to do that with a .223 or .308, heck what's-his-name the ivory hunter ( Bell I think? ) took train loads of ivory with a 7mm Mauser. Does that mean every schmuck with a Mauser should start slinging lead at Elephants? I certainly wouldn't.

But anyways, I'm going off topic so I'll hush.

L_Killkenny
January 13, 2012, 11:17 AM
Coyote - What would I intentionally take hunting with me? Any centerfire including the Hornet and the .17's. Target of opportunity? Whatever I have in my hands including a .22lr.

Deer - .243

Have no experience or ambition with the last 2 so I can't help you there.

LK

warbirdlover
January 13, 2012, 12:14 PM
One must wonder how, if you need a 300winmag to successfully hunt grizzly, the early settlers managed with single shot, low power, black powder guns.

And some of the early settlers met their Maker too!

:D

Flapjack23
January 13, 2012, 12:20 PM
Coyote: .204 Ruger through .243
Deer: .243 through .338 federal (.270, .308, .300WM included)
Elk: .270 through .375 H&H
Griz: .300WM through .375 H&H

IMO...ideal cartridges. The .45-70 would fit for the bottom 3 also. That said, the only coyote I have shot was with my .300WM, I currently hunt deer with my .375 H&H (with a reduced load (260 Gr accubond at 2550 fps)), and the only elk I have shot was with my .300 WM. Nothing wrong with going outside the above on the larger side.

Saltydog235
January 13, 2012, 12:52 PM
If you're worried about deer or elk attacking you (animals that will run from a little dog critter), you probably need to stay inside in a bubble.

jimbob86
January 13, 2012, 01:12 PM
Coyote- .22lr, 40 gr HP ..... it works, I've done it. ....... Max, none...... whatever is handy..... usually a .270 WIN.

Deer- .243, but prefer larger .....max? I don't see a need for anything heavier than .30-06

Elk- .270 WIN, maybe 7-08 ..... max? Dunno. 7 STW?

Grizzly- Min/Max? Biggest thing handy- I'm not planning on looking for trouble, but if trouble comes for me, I'll be undergunned.......

warbirdlover
January 13, 2012, 01:34 PM
If you're worried about deer or elk attacking you (animals that will run from a little dog critter), you probably need to stay inside in a bubble.

Whose worried about deer and elk?

tahunua001
January 13, 2012, 01:41 PM
Whose worried about deer and elk?
^ this... I cant say I've ever met anyone that's scared of these.

dalegribble
January 13, 2012, 02:02 PM

ngragg
January 13, 2012, 02:32 PM
coyote-.204 (22 mag will drop them dead)
Deer -.243
elk .270 (good shot placement is key with max loads at 150 gr)
grizzly (bigger better, minimal 338 win mag)

Big Yac
January 13, 2012, 02:33 PM
what about the .35 Whelen, it covers all the animals listed.

Saltydog235
January 13, 2012, 02:57 PM
Dude on page one talked about deer and elk attacking. Thought that was funny, about as funny as all these rabid, murderous, attack pigs roaming the country.

FrankenMauser
January 13, 2012, 03:07 PM
Find the mega boomer:
.22 WMR
.223 Rem
.243 Win
.270 Win
.30 WCF
.30-40 Krag
.30-06
7.62x54R
.38 Special
.35 Whelen
.44 Rem Mag
.444 Marlin
12 ga


Game animals I have taken may not be more dead than hunting party members that are using magnum cartridges; but they are usually a better kind of dead. ;)
(Mine drop with one shot, a clean kill, and little (or no) meat loss; while theirs take multiple shots, have massive chunks blown out of the body, and half the meat is destroyed.)

Buzzcook
January 13, 2012, 03:13 PM
Dogs, .22lr- .30-06
Deer, elk, and black bear, .243- .30-06
Grizzly (hunting) 6.5swede- four bore
Grizzly (charging) four bore.

Bigfatts
January 13, 2012, 03:33 PM
Grizzly (charging) four bore.

You have a 4-bore?! Jealous...

Daryl
January 14, 2012, 02:26 PM
Coyote - .22 mag through .243, with heavy preference for the .17 Rem.
Deer - .243 through 7mm Rem Mag
Elk - .243 through .300 Win Mag
Grizzly - 7mm Rem Mag through .338 Win Mag

Buzzcook
January 14, 2012, 02:49 PM
You have a 4-bore?! Jealous...

Nope, but I'd buy one in a second if those magical grizzly started showing up.

Todd1700
January 14, 2012, 06:24 PM
At close range for coyotes almost anything will do but I'd list my minimum as a 22 mag. Long range my minimum would be a 223. The biggest caliber in my collection I'd reach for if I were going on a coyote hunt? 243. But in a target of opportunity situation I will shoot a coyote with whatever I'm carrying. A 223 is probably perfect for yotes however.

For deer my minimum is a 243. Maximum? Whatever, as long as you shoot it well. I personally would not go larger than a 7mm mag and consider 300 magnums and up overkill for our Alabama deer. But whatever blows your skirt up. It's not like a 375 H&H won't kill a deer. I just wouldn't want to use it for that purpose.

I have no experience with Elk or Grizzly and I'll leave that to people who do.

30-30remchester
January 14, 2012, 07:13 PM
For all those recommending a 22lr for coyotes, I wonder how many have actually killed a coyote with this caliber and if so how many. I have only shot 51 coyotes so I dont have tremendous experence, but I do have enough. I killed 2 coyotes with a 22lr and wounded 5 that were never recovered. Not real good odds.

Daryl
January 14, 2012, 07:19 PM
For all those recommending a 22lr for coyotes, I wonder how many have actually killed a coyote with this caliber and if so how many. I have only shot 51 coyotes so I dont have tremendous experence, but I do have enough. I killed 2 coyotes with a 22lr and wounded 5 that were never recovered. Not real good odds.

Bearing in mind that we're talkiing about hunting, rather than animal damage control, I agree with you.

I've killed one coyote with a .22 LR, and won't do it again. It can be done, but the chance of wounding it is too great. The one I killed I shot at least 5 times at close range, and had to finish it with a shot between the eyes.

Daryl

TXAZ
January 14, 2012, 07:40 PM
Coyote .243

Deer 7mm /12 ga slug If it was 'just me' 7mm, but deer season has become too unsafe in many locations to use anything with 200 yds+ lethal range.

Elk 7mm

Grizzly - .50 BMG A graze or near miss could enrage this animal: You could be dinner.

This is one instance where there isn't "too big" a caliber, and a role reversal could occur without notice. No apologies if some think this is overkill, as there is no award for taking a grizzly with the smallest caliber while risking your life.

Brian Pfleuger
January 14, 2012, 09:31 PM
Deer 7mm /12 ga slug If it was 'just me' 7mm, but deer season has become too unsafe in many locations to use anything with 200 yds+ lethal range.

A 12ga slug is dangerous WAY beyond 200 yards. Especially modern sabot slugs. Winchester makes a 300gr slug with a listed 2,000fps muzzle velocity. High-velocity sabot slugs can have well over 1,500 ft/lbs of energy at 200 yards and Winchesters ballistic calculator shows them sighted just 10 inches low at 200.

Even older style rifled slugs, say 400gr with a velocity of 1,300-1,700fps, are dangerous WELL beyond 200 yards and retain 500 ft/lbs or more at 200.

Considering that deer hunters are almost always shooting parallel to the ground or down from trees, there really isn't much reason to believe that ANY particular type of firearm or cartridge carries a specific risk over others.

Most of New York state has been slug-only hunting for longer than I've been alive and we hear of accidental shootings every year. Almost always they are at ranges under 100 yards.

Now, almost the entire state has turned over to rifle hunting (and I guarantee the average population density (human) is higher than ever) and we see no more accidents than before... I'd say fewer just based on the news but I don't have the stats to back it up.

Anyway, the idea that this type of gun or that one is safer or more dangerous for hunting in relatively populated areas may SEEM logical but it doesn't hold up in under scrutiny.

Deja vu
January 14, 2012, 10:07 PM
My Cousin has killed a Grizz with a bow. I have never killed a Grizzly but for me I think I would take my 45/70 Govt.

as far as deer or elk attacking, I have seen a young buck attack a Husky during the rutt.

BIG P
January 14, 2012, 10:56 PM
Coyote 17HMR.Big end anything I could end his days with.
DEER-223 through 3ooWM.
Elk-25-06 through 300WM
GRIZZ- 30-06- 458 WM.

Old Grump
January 15, 2012, 11:29 AM
minimum on coyote, 22LR
minimum on deer, .243
minimum on Grizzly while hunting 300 Wby

no limit on maximum, use what you got or can handle competently.

Just dos centavos from a dinosaur

Mausermolt
January 15, 2012, 12:12 PM
song dog: 22lr :ive shot many a yote with a 22. if they are at 50 yds+ i go for a head shot. if i miss, oh well i just educated the bugger. max: whatever is in my hand

deer: 6mm Remington. max: 300WSM. ive shot a few deer with my wsm and it is quite overkill for muleys. ive since switched to a 8mm mauser or 6mm remington for them. does the job plenty well.

elk: min: 257 roberts, seen many of cows tipped over with one shot from the good ol roberts. max: dont see any reason why you need more than a 300 win mag or a 45/70.

Griz: min: 300WSM just because i dont want the chance of wounding it and it coming after me like a porterhouse with legs. max: none

seems like the general consensus shows that with good shot placement any animal can be taken with any modern weapon. ive killed lots of cattle with a 22lr, that said it was like shooting fish in a barrel......or cattle in a feedlot pen :D i think its all about individual comfort and skill. but there is no excuse for blowing the hind quarters off a deer with a 300 win mag and have to chase it all over timbuck two

Major Dave (retired)
January 15, 2012, 05:38 PM
coyote = .223/257
deer = .243/30-06
elk = .270/.338
griz = .338/.416

I consider lesser than stated mins would do the job, just not as reliably. Higher ratio of wounds, lower ratio of kills.:(

Greater than stated max's would probably result in more misses, due to greater recoil/muzzle blast. If you don't hit the kill zone, it doesn't matter what diameter, velocity and/or bullet weight you are using. :mad:;)

Irish B
January 15, 2012, 08:11 PM
For coyote probably .22lr min and 243 max
For deer 243 min 308 max
For elk 270 min 30-06 max
For HUNTING grizzly 270 min 375 Max. For self defense grizz .454 cas min .416 w Max. Keeping in mind the #2 world record polar bear was taken with a .270. In an ideal grizzly hunt I'd be 75 yards away and the bear would have no knowledge of my presence. In that perfect situation I might chance using a .270

Jack O'Conner
January 18, 2012, 07:26 AM
22 MAG: coyote

.223 with 64 grain bullet: deer

35 Remington with 200 grain bullet: elk

.308 with 200 grain Speer bonded bullet: grizzley

Jack

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/elkinforestsized-1.jpg

buckfynn
January 19, 2012, 01:12 AM
Coyote 22lr - .243
Dear 22-250 - .308
Elk .243 - 300 win mag
Wolf 22-250 - 300 win mag
Never shot a Griz ?
Black Bear .243 - .308

huntinaz
January 19, 2012, 01:22 AM
35 Remington with 200 grain bullet: elk

How could you possibly, with a handle of "Jack O'connor," say your minimum for elk is not less than or equal to a 270???!!!:p

Alaska444
January 19, 2012, 02:32 AM
Deer .444 Marlin
Elk .444 Marlin
Griz. .444 Marlin
Coyote .444 Marlin

Sorry, couldn't help myself. LOL

Aaron1100us
January 19, 2012, 04:13 AM
.700 Nitro Express should take care.of anything.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk

12-34hom
January 19, 2012, 11:29 AM
coyote & deer - 243 or 6mm.

Elk & bear - 300 Winchester mag.

12-34hom.

taylorce1
January 19, 2012, 01:43 PM
Small game I intend to eat - .22lr or .410 ga

Varmints - .22 lr up to .375 Ruger

Hogs - .223 up to .375 Ruger

Pronghorn/Deer - 6x47 up to .375 Ruger

Elk/Moose - 6.5X55 up to .375 Ruger

Black Bear - .243 Win up to .375 Ruger

Grizzly/Brown - .30-06 up to .375 Ruger

All of the above except small game with a .50 caliber Muzzle Loader as well as compound bow. I've killed a lot of varmints with whatever rifle I was packing at the time, no reason to worry about what rifle is or isn't in hand when a target of oppotunitiy arises. I'd even use the .223 for Deer and Pronghorn were it legal where I hunt. .375 Ruger is the largest cartridge I shoot as of right now but there is no top end as far as I'm concerned for most hunting situations.

JustinNC
January 19, 2012, 02:50 PM
How could you possibly, with a handle of "Jack O'connor," say your minimum for elk is not less than or equal to a 270???!!!


270 in 150gr has more energy than a 35rem in 200 gr ;)....so that that is LESS than a 270 lol

huntinaz
January 19, 2012, 03:01 PM
270 in 150gr has more energy than a 35rem in 200 gr ....so that that is LESS than a 270 lol

Aha! So not that blasphemous. I think a 35 Rem levergun would make a nice elk popper.

Wyoredman
January 19, 2012, 03:06 PM
Coyotes: Minimum-.204 ruger, Maximum (in the Wyoming wind)-.325WSM!
Deer: Min-.243 win (smallest legal in WY), Max- .325 WSM (for now)
Elk: see "Deer"
Moose: Min.-.270WSM, Max.- see "coyote"
Grizz: Min.- .357 mag, Max.- see "coyote"

Guess you know what guns I have in my collection!:D

JustinNC
January 19, 2012, 03:45 PM
Aha! So not that blasphemous. I think a 35 Rem levergun would make a nice elk popper.


Not to start a larger debate that in forever on going on the marlin forum....


a 30-30win has more energy than the 35rem even though it's a larger boolit:o

Factory ballistics of course


How many would say that a 30-30 is inadequate for elk? lol

I would have zero issues with a 30-30 to 200yds given it was scoped and I knew my gun. There again, I have a 7mag if I ever decide I need an need to chase an elk.

*stir stir stir*

rumrunner
January 25, 2012, 12:23 AM
.338 Lapua :D I can't think of anything I couldn't hunt with that.

in response to the statement about old timers using sub par rifles and bows I think this is due the fact that it was more about survival than hunting. If your life depends on putting meat on the table you will be slightly less worried about making a shot that will drop the animal right away, and more worried about just making it recoverable. with most hunters ethics is the concern over survival.