View Full Version : Condition zero?
December 27, 2011, 12:02 PM
Last Thursday as I was leaving hurriedly, my EDC (a Para LDA Carry) was in the bedroom so I picked up my Colt LW Commander instead and put it in my OWB holster on my way out the door.
I didn't touch it again until late afternoon as I put my hand on it to return it to my desk. The thumb safety was off and the hammer down. Now, I don't often keep a pistol in condition two, but have done so occasionally. As I removed it from the holster I noticed that there was no magazine! My first thought was that I had inadvertently ejected it and that I would find in on the seat of my truck. However, when I rolled the cylinder desk open to return the Colt to its normal place, the loaded magazine was lying in plain sight. I cycled the pistol: Empty. I had been carrying a totally useless ornament. And, since it was concealed, it wasn't even much of an ornament.
I have learned a valuable lesson and have become a convert: No more Condition two. Ever. If it isn't Condition one, then it isn't ready to go. Of course, as we all know, it is still always loaded.
December 27, 2011, 12:16 PM
Years ago, I had a reserve officer riding with me. We got a gun call where as a lady fled her home, reporting her hubby was drunk and armed, assualted her and threatened to kill any cop that came in.
Well we had to go in. Sneaking through the house a bit at a time, the reserved covered me while I moved and visa versa. To make a long story short, The bad guy got tired of waiting for us and passed out.
Anyway, after the shift, as we did most nights, we went to the range to "shoot for coffee, looser buys".
This is where I found my reserve officer forgot to load his service revolver. Scared the crap out of me. After that, until the day I retired, no reserve officer got in my car unless I did a firearms inspection.
December 27, 2011, 02:07 PM
Empty. I had been carrying a totally useless ornament. And, since it was concealed, it wasn't even much of an ornament.
For the vast majority of people carrying is a fashion choice. No harm no foul.
December 27, 2011, 02:13 PM
Or you could just carry a Glock! :D
<Sorry, I'm kinda on vacation and just want to stir the pot!> :D:D:D
December 27, 2011, 02:30 PM
I once carried a Springfield Armory 1911 with a round chambered, hammer cocked, thumb safety engaged. And no magazine. I'm thankful I didn't have to make that one shot count. :o
December 27, 2011, 02:44 PM
Probably my fault but i dont get it con 1 you have around in the chamber hammer back, con 2 you have a round in the chamber hammer down. In both cases you have a round in the chamber. So if you have no mag then in both conditions you still have one shot. I could be wrong if so i am sure i will be corrected.
December 27, 2011, 02:50 PM
For safety reasons I am in the habit of opening the action of any gun I pick up to check whether it's loaded. Usually it is to make sure it's unloaded before I hand it to someone, show it, clean it, etc. But I have found that it's a good habit for checking to make sure I don't carry unloaded.
That's everytime I pick up a gun, even if I just set it down a few minutes ago.
December 27, 2011, 03:03 PM
There is an actual Condition Zero, which is like Condition One, but with the thumb safety down (off). This is one condition higher than Condition One. You still have your grip safety and, of course, your brain and trigger finger. Can't do it with guns like the Star PD that have no grip safety.
December 27, 2011, 05:14 PM
Thanks, all, for your input. I remembered (too late) about the actual condition zero so I guess mine would have been condition 4+ or, more accurately, F- :o.
December 27, 2011, 05:27 PM
I once carried a Springfield Armory 1911 with a round chambered, hammer cocked, thumb safety engaged. And no magazine. I'm thankful I didn't have to make that one shot count.
It's okay, we all know you only need one round of .45 to put a man down. :rolleyes:
((All in good fun:D))
December 27, 2011, 05:47 PM
It's okay, we all know you only need one round of .45 to put a man down.
Because of its knockdown power? :D
Now, tell me... Does it work on bears?
December 27, 2011, 07:26 PM
Thanks for the chuckle, Psyfly, . . . reminded me of a Navy incident: S&S patrol caught couple of E3 & E2 dudes up on the Asroc launch control shack, smokin' (probably weed, . . . never found out for sure), . . . he ordered them down, . . . no result, . . . yanked out that old rattly 1911, . . . jacked a round in the chamber and hollered again.
They came down !
Then the S&S, an E5 none the less, . . . marches them back to the quarterdeck, . . . turns them over to the OD, . . . and calmly asks the petty officer there: "Hey, . . . how do you uncock this thing?"
We were in San Diego Harbor too, none the less, . . . 32nd street Naval station, . . .
May God bless,
December 27, 2011, 08:26 PM
Once upon a time I was up late cleaning my guns in our tiny ground floor apartment (500 or so square feet!) on a folding table with a small lamp, watching TV, all the other lights were out. Suddenly, the door knob (about 8 feet in front of me) started jiggling, hard. Then the door shuddered, like a hip or kick had smacked it. I picked up my Glock 17 off the table, and dropped the slide on an empty chamber and yelled "I have a gun!", followed by the pitter patter of feet running swiftly away from my front door. I ran to the bedroom and grabbed some ammo and fumbled to load a magazine while my wife and infant son slept in the bed, then went to the front window, and saw that it was clear. Then I went and threw away my underwear...
Not sure if the bad guy couldn't see the lamp and TV light through the heavy curtains and thought the apartment was empty, or if he just didn't care, it was probably close to 1 am, so maybe he thought we were asleep. I always follow safety procedures and don't keep ammo near me when cleaning my guns but that incident still gives me the heebie jeebies when I think about it. I had 3 guns on the table in front of me and if that door had given way, they would have been useless.
December 27, 2011, 08:59 PM
What you failed to do is to do a brass check. I do it everytime I pick up any pistol, esp if I'm going to put it on my hip or pocket carry.
Never assume anything. If you assume it was unloaded, then it might be loaded and vice versa. It would suck to find out the hard way! i.e. if you really had to defend your life and your gun is empty :eek:
December 28, 2011, 02:48 AM
KC Rob- When I'm cleaning one I always have a loaded back up. Over zealous maybe, but you came terribly close to having need of one.
December 28, 2011, 03:17 AM
Once upon a time I was up late cleaning my guns in our tiny ground floor apartment (500 or so square feet!) on a folding table with a small lamp, watching TV, all the other lights were out. Suddenly, the door knob (about 8 feet in front of me) started jiggling, hard. Then the door shuddered, like a hip or kick had smacked it.
(edited for brevity)
That sequence of events sounds exactly like someone went to the wrong apartment, used his key, jiggled the lock, got frustrated, hip-checked the door and then discovered (when you announced yourself) that he had the wrong door.
Who knows which scenario is more likely, the sinister one you supposed or the one I imagined?
Whatever tactic you choose, let it fit all possibilities until you narrow the variables down to only what is true.
December 31, 2011, 06:59 AM
A looooong time ago, I went out with a full magazine and an empty chamber in my little 380.
I didn't realize it until I got home.
Since then I check the chamber instinctively.
It would have been worse if I had one in the chamber and no magazine since that .380 has one of those idiotic magazine safeties.
Glenn E. Meyer
December 31, 2011, 09:59 AM
I had Kydex IWB holster that through some configuration would flex and push the mag release and eject the mag onto the car floor and under the seat - when you sat down. It is now in the box of holsters.
December 31, 2011, 10:09 AM
"It's okay, we all know you only need one round of .45 to put a man down." [Blackfeather]
That's always been my philosophy.
"Now, tell me... Does it work on bears?" [Sparks1957]
For thick skinned bears I handload an H110 special, the flame thrown singes the whiskers and the slug knocks'em down.
On rare occasions, a mag has slipped out leaving only one (in the chamber), but as alluded to upstream, one is enough.
December 31, 2011, 10:43 AM
Did same recently, dropped J-frame into front pocket carry and with running about town on errands. Errands completed and my buddy & I decided to finish off at small gunshow. a No-carry place, withdrew the J and opened the cylinder to empty but it was already emptied.
Returned to car after the show and loaded up.
Just don't recall when I emptied it!!! !:o
December 31, 2011, 03:14 PM
I had Kydex IWB holster that through some configuration would flex and push the mag release and eject the mag
I have a similar issue with a really nice Galco SOB holster for my 1911. When I sit in the car the magazine release button gets pushed. The magazine doesn't fall out. But if I ever shot it, I'm sure it would.
December 31, 2011, 04:43 PM
Don't feel too bad; I've heard of police officers doing the same with their service weapon.
I'm of the habit of doing a press check whenever I pick-up my handgun. Just one of those things I do without even thinking about it.
January 1, 2012, 05:30 AM
I've heard of police officers doing the same with their service weapon.
That's true. There are police gun ranges that have a sign by the exit door that says "Is your gun loaded?", since many officers have forgotten to reload after qualifying or practice.
Maybe I should get one of those signs for my house :)
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