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Dwight55
December 26, 2011, 07:18 AM
One guy failed his Home Invasion 101 class, he forgot to tell his buddies that if it gets ugly, be sure who they are shooting.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/december/362091/Suspect-beaten,-shot-in-botched-Christmas-Eve-home-invasion

I have to admit that I don't like seeing anyone shot, but this guy kinda deserved it, . . . and I did chuckle a bit.

May God bless,
Dwight

PADefenseTrainer
December 26, 2011, 07:30 AM
A motivated home owner defends the castle with a Louisville Slugger from 3 aggressors with a gun!

What's not to love?!

Thanks for sharing that. I doubt I would have run across that on my own.

Kevin Rohrer
December 26, 2011, 08:05 AM
No one ever said criminals were smart...or well trained. Too bad his accomplices weren't using a major-caliber handgun. :rolleyes:

jhenry
December 26, 2011, 09:14 AM
There is no IQ requirement to become a criminal.

TexasJustice7
December 26, 2011, 11:51 AM
Jhenry: There is no IQ requirement to become a criminal.

Neither do we have to administer an IQ Test, nor an age questionaire in Texas when an intruder is breaking into a home. We call it home invasion here. And some of those very low IQ people as well as teenagers have been guilty of horrendous crimes. And some teenagers are tried as adults in Texas. In my old age, with the problems I have, I am certain that there are young teenagers I could not handle without the equalizer. :)

farmerboy
December 26, 2011, 12:23 PM
As far as the Equalizer goes, if one doesnt do the job just get a bigger caliber and keep shooting! haha this is a funny story though! Heres you a Free Present!!!

joyflnzz
December 26, 2011, 12:32 PM
home invasion seems like a real tough way to make a living. the smart crooks usually make it to ripping off the elderly etc. no wonder only the idiots do the invasion thing.

old bear
December 26, 2011, 01:15 PM
And the Darwin award for December 2011, goes to:D Hot damn some people are even to dumb to be crooks:eek:

Score one for the good guy's. Ya gotta love it!!

G1R2
December 26, 2011, 01:24 PM
Hello Dwight,

As an American living in a third world country time capsule for the past 30 years, I just became aware of the phrase “home invasion” on this forum. Not knowing what it was, I goggled it and came up with this definition:

There is no clear definition of “home invasión”. While the use of the term has become common in recent times, it has no legal meaning. There also appears to be considerable variation in what “home invasión” actually means for police, victim and the media. According to one newspaper report (Sydney Morning Herald, 5/11/94) “home invasión” was coined by New South Wales investigators working on Task Force Oak, a specialist Asian crime unit set up in 1991. The term referred to several home raids where Asian families were “terrorised” for money by gangs of three or more people armed with shotguns and knives. Source: www.ocsar.sa.gov.au/docs/information...

What is the definition being used for your post?

farmerboy
December 26, 2011, 03:13 PM
It means when someone enters I'n a residence with the intent to rob the place. It works I'n the crooks favor if no one is home. If there is someone home and they choose to defend theirself and property then you shoot crook multiple times and problem is resolved!

Sheikyourbootie
December 26, 2011, 03:42 PM
It's really a pity the guy lived. Could have had all 3 off the streets forever.

MLeake
December 26, 2011, 04:07 PM
I had thought "home invasion" normally referred to intentionally breaking in / forcing in when people were home, in order to force them to hand over drugs, open safes, etc. Home invasions are deliberately violent.

Home invasion normally is not used to describe a burglar surprised by the presence of home owners.

They usually seem to occur at the homes of drug dealers; sometimes they happen because the robbers get the wrong address. Sometimes they have what was once a drug address, but is now owned and occupied by solid citizens - this happened to a couple in Missouri, which is why Missouri home sellers must now answer a disclosure as to whether a home was ever used as a meth lab.

Sometimes drugs and bad addresses are not involved. The gang who executed Byrd and Melanie Biilings near Pensacola thought Billings had a quarter million in a safe in the house... Leader of the gang was a former employee of Billings.

farmerboy
December 26, 2011, 06:59 PM
Comment on post 11, Yes and a shame we tax payers have to now take care of scum like this!

OuTcAsT
December 27, 2011, 09:55 AM
It's really a pity the guy lived.

Really ? Why ? The threat ceased to be a threat, the sad part is that someone would make such a statement, and call himself a "responsible" firearms owner. The gunwoobie surfaces again.... See the quote in my sig line by wildalaska...

compglock17
December 27, 2011, 12:07 PM
Wow. The BG confirmed: Life's tough when you’re stupid!! Glad the homeowner didn't get hit!

Crazy88Fingers
December 27, 2011, 12:58 PM
From Florida. Shocking.

I wonder if they could tack on assault with a deadly weapon since his accomplice attempted to shoot the homeowner. Although, Mr. Clay was the actual victim of the assault so maybe that isn't completely fair. :D

MLeake
December 27, 2011, 01:06 PM
Should be attempted murder; assault with a deadly weapon; aggravated assault; assault consummated by battery; firearm used in commission of a felony; more than likely possession of a firearm by a felon.

There is a laundry list that could be thrown at the lot (I believe in Florida, accomplices in a crime are all equally liable for charges).

C0untZer0
December 27, 2011, 01:38 PM
^ I was thinking the same thing.

The only thing I could think of was that the DA is holding the laundry list of other charges to bargain with - if Clay cooperates they charge him only with home invasion robbery, if he doesn't cooperate they throw the book at him.

I wish there were money to investigate and catalog every shooting, like federal funding to the local LEAs and coroners office, and it would go in a database so we knew more about shootings in general like what caliber was used.

It would be like a federally funded Marshall & Sanow type study. It doesn't say what caliber Clay was shot with.

I suspect, but obviously have nothing to support it, that the shooter in this case had a caliber less than 9mm, I'll even venture to say it was less than 380 Auto. But it's just my guess.

skoro
December 27, 2011, 04:43 PM
From the link:

Investigators said one of Clay’s accomplices tried to shoot the resident, but instead inadvertently shot Clay.


Good shot placement! :)

JohnKSa
December 27, 2011, 05:06 PM
These things happen. Here's a guy who, like many gun owners, believed that there was no need for training or practice.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2008/06/18/707402/would-be-grand-prairie-home-invader.html

A would-be Grand Prairie home invader apparently shot himself in the process and died at the scene early Tuesday, police said.

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/jun/18/break-artist-mishandles-grand-prairie-home-invasio/

MLeake
December 27, 2011, 05:57 PM
JohnKSA, that article is also another example of the hazards of holster-less waistband carry.

C0untZer0
December 27, 2011, 06:32 PM
The article said it was "small caliber"

What does that mean?

Ugh... it's so frustrating not to get the details !

I wonder if this guy killed himself with a .32 or what....

TexasJustice7
December 29, 2011, 07:45 AM
Dwight: One guy failed his Home Invasion 101 class, he forgot to tell his buddies that if it gets ugly, be sure who they are shooting.

You know I have a double locked deadbolt door where I live, only way in too.
And while I would not make a sound if someone was kicking the door in I would probably wait till they got the door down before I started firing with a
CA 44 Bulldog. And I live in a bad area, so I thought I would just run this by
my police officer friend, what he would do as he also lives in another apartment complex. He said he would shoot thru the door unless they identified themselves as police. I said what if it turned out to be some drunk?
And he said they should not have picked his house. So I think most people around here would. My brother, another police officer said when the door starts to heave. Thats two for two, in law enforcement, but I want to be sure
I see what I am shooting at. I never made sound shots hunting deer when I grew up. :)

jhenry
December 29, 2011, 08:28 AM
Two for two with very poor advice.

TexasJustice7
December 29, 2011, 10:24 AM
jhenry: Two for two with very poor advice.

I am no so certain about that, but I just will give no warning, but will wait till I can be sure I will hit whoever is coming thru a double locked deadbolted door that has to be kicked in. Waiting till I can see the intruder, helps me
be able to make my shots count but also takes a chance if he comes in shooting he may hit me. I am reluctant to criticize those who are in career law enforcement. Those people who live in safe areas however, probably don't even have to worry about anyone knocking their door down anyway, and probably have a security service as well. Apt complexes in rural ares of
Texas however, are exposed to more crime, and dopeheads looking for money to fund their drug habits.

I saw however, on First 48 that Dallas which I thought was a fairly safe city
with three carjackers killing a man, in a botched robbery. They got 30, 20 and 20 year sentences. Whether it is an intruder breaking a door down, or
a carjacker doing a robbery, the victims can follow all the rules and the laws,
and end up dead. This is why I like the laws on the books in Texas. Any person who is willing to burglarize a haibitation is quite willing to do any other
crime if someone happens to be home, including murdering the victim.:)

C0untZer0
December 29, 2011, 10:49 AM
I think most people who educate themselves about SD / HD do some basic things like identify the choke points in their house and points of entry / egress.

I am fortunate in the layout of my condo in that my kid's bedroom is further down the hall than my bedroom - so, my door opens on the hall which is the choke point for my home.

In addition to identifying chokepoints, I think most people think about cover.

I basically have no cover in my home, except the minimal cover provided by 2x4s of a door frame.

I had German Sheperds my whole life and I found them to be really intelligent, courageous dogs with natural gaurd instincts. One of my German Sheperds actually patrolled our house several times a night, looked into every bedroom, looked out every window, and then would lay down at at the top of the stairs - the point where all bedrooms and family members could best be gaurded. Unfotunately I have a daughter who is allergic to dogs so the gaurd dog option is out while we look for a dog she's not allergic too. And she's already proven to be allergic to some supposedly hypo-allergenic breeds.

My feeling is that if I am upstairs and intruders are downstairs I can shout "Get out of here - I'm armed, I'm calling the police !" And they would probably flee. And I could be ready to defend the hallway until the police arrived.

But if I don't wake up until they are in my upstairs hallway... my feeling is that shouting or yelling "freeze" or something like that is just going to get me shot.

Unfortunately, we live in a litagaous society where a good portion of jurors have no idea about the reality of the dynamics of shootouts and have many misconceptions fostered by Hollywood's ridiculous portrayals. And there are lawyers who know how to expertly exploit those misconceptions.

I think that's why a solid Castle Doctrine with no burden to retreat is so so important.

MLeake
December 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
C0untZer0, have you looked at standard poodles yet? Don't give them the stupid poodle haircut, and you have a 60lb, intelligent, hypo-allergenic dog.

A friend's standard poodle once really tore up a German shepherd that made the poor decision to come over the fence and attack the standard. (Standards were originally hunting dogs.)

ltc444
December 29, 2011, 03:42 PM
As a Retired Army Officer living in a remote and isolated location, I have analysied and planned my home defense as I would a LogBase.

My animals are my early warning system. They roam our acreage at night and alert us to any intruders.

Solar powered motion activated security lights surround the home. These lights will back light any intruder. While I remain in shadow.

The home is hardened to slow entry and create lots of noise if someone is attemting to enter.

The Interior layout forces intruders to move in a predictable pattern.
Once again lights are motion activated a entry points so they will back light the intruder.

As in any castle, I have a keep. This is our last defensive position. The door is hardened. The furniture provides cover. We have sufficient arms, ammunition, and water to hold out for several hours if not days.

Cell phones are maintained on our person or at hand 24 / 7. This is not just for defense but my wife has a heart condition.

We have coordinated with our neighbors and developed a mutual aid plan.

Call 911 then call the neighbor who responds armed and ready. He will also direct responding LEO to the proper location.

If it seems like the wild west, it is.

Our location has a large number of crack heads and we have spill over from the border and its myrad of problems.

My points are. Start your plan at your property line. Harden your entry points. Install noise makers on your windows and doors. A coke can with some pennys in it set to fall when a door or window is opened is very effective.

Install lighting to illuminate your attacker while keeping you in shadow.

Harden a room in your home were all of your family can assemble. By hardening include doors, windows and furniture. Include the means of defense.

I hope you never have to execute your plan.

C0untZer0
December 29, 2011, 03:45 PM
I have looked at poodles - they are a working dog, which people often forget, and yes they got miniturized, but the full sized dogs are good dogs from what I've heard. It's not their fault they got miniturized - even Doberman Pinschers looked ridiculous after they got miniturized. :D

According to Wikipedia they are second in intelligence only to the Border Collie and supposedly smarter than the German Shepherd.

My aunt has had poddles for decades and decades and I have to admit they are smart dogs.

My daughter was around one of those Golden Doodles - Poodle/Golden retreiver mix which are suppossed to be hypo allergenic and she had a reaction, but I haven't tried regular poodles yet.

On the other hand... my other aunt and uncle live in Orlando. They woke up one morning to find all their stuff gone. They had been robbed in their sleep. The robbers had put my aunt and uncle's very friendly dachshund in a closet.

C0untZer0
December 29, 2011, 03:46 PM
Does castle doctrine apply if your dog attacks an invader?

Do you have to claim to have purposely sicced your dog on them ie- use your dog as a weapon?

RockRiverWhisper
December 29, 2011, 04:11 PM
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I make my stand when he inters my yard. I live in the sticks were we call it trespassing:D:D

hangglider
December 29, 2011, 04:15 PM
Most excellent itc444--thank you for a very good post.

Spartan77
December 30, 2011, 07:50 AM
Caliber doesn't matter. It's all about shot placement.

bikerbill
January 1, 2012, 12:50 PM
No sympathy for these three idiots, and kudos to the homeowner for fighting back with what he had available ... people who enter your home to commit a crime don't deserve sympathy ... the wounded kid got off lightly, IMHO and got just what he deserved.

jhenry
January 1, 2012, 03:29 PM
Caliber doesn't matter. It's all about shot placement.

So your home and/or self defense weapon is a .22 or a 32 ACP or something?

The all about shot placement stuff slays me. While hitting the vitals etc. certainly is #1, it is NOT everything. Not at all. Hitting the CNS or center punching the heart lung area in the dark, under stress, on a moving aggressive target that may well be in the process of hurting you or a loved one, from a less than ideal position, perhaps while hurt yourself, and doing it all in probably just seconds sounds so easy.

There may well be a good reason why one of the more ideal home defense weapons is a 12 gauge with buckshot and not a Marlin .22 auto.

Most LE shoots, and most HD shoots have a hit probability of 20 to 25 percent. That is a hit anywhere. Practice and skill will increase the likelyhood of a hit somewhere on the target. An adequate round will increase the likelyhood of a hit making a difference. In that I find myself to be a desirable person to save, I will continue to stack the deck.