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Brant
December 10, 2011, 04:59 PM
How's everyone doing?

I'm Brant. I was thingking about getting involved in the civilian marksmanship program. As I was skimming throuh the approved rifles I found that the cheepest one to go with was a mosin nagant sniper variant for about $500. All the other vintage rifles were $1000+. I dont want to go that high, simply because if I did, I might as well just save up a little more and buy an M1A.

My question is, with mach grade ammunition, how accurate can these things get? I used to have a mosin (just iron sights) and it consistantly shot about a foot high and to the right at 100 yards. The grouping was about 6 inches wide. I just want to know if, with one of the approves scopes, is the rifle capable of 2-3 minutes of angle?

Thanks!

govmule84
December 10, 2011, 05:07 PM
Load your own. Military ammo is .308, and the barrels usually slug at .311-.318. Mine was a crap heap till I started loading .312's, then I had a tack driver.

kraigwy
December 10, 2011, 05:15 PM
Any diecent barreled Mosin should be able to hold 3 - 4 inches. A lot are better then that. If your's only does 6 inches, I recommend trying different ammo.

The X-10 ring on the Target used by the CMP GSM vintage rifle matche is 3.5 inches (100 yards) or 7 inches at 200). You should be able to keep your score above 95%. It aint the rifle that keeps those scores down.

As to shooting high, that's fixable while keeping the rifle "as issued" per CMP rules.

Each .0061 movement of the sight moves the impact 1 MOA (on the mosin). Mine was shooting 8 inches high when set on the "100" mark. I took the rear sight off, turned it over and milled 0.0488 off the bottom of the slider (the part that moves up and down on the sight base. (.0061 X 8 = .0488 or an 8 inch correction at 100 yards).

I put the sight back on and it is right on at the 100 mark. When set on the 200 and 300 marks its also on at those respectable ranges.

Now if you go the Mosin Sniper Rifle, it needs to be able to hole 2 MOA to clean the 600 yard target. You get picky about your reloading, using match bullets you should be able to pull it off.

Brant
December 10, 2011, 05:29 PM
Thanks a lot! You guys just saved me some money.

Back to dryfireing in the kitchen!

rickyrick
December 10, 2011, 05:54 PM
Hmm, I have seen sniper variants for around 300, but that maybe geographical price difference.

capflyboy05
December 10, 2011, 07:24 PM
I like mine, I've got one and it shoots fine after I milled off part of the rear sight. I can hold about a 3 in. grouping at 250 with iron sights.
Not a bad weapon. I love it. Even though it's ot the most accurate.
It does it's job, and it's a great piece of history.

tobnpr
December 10, 2011, 07:59 PM
Absolutely yes- as long as you've got a shooter with sharp rifling and a tight action. Handloads are mandatory as surplus ammo is far too inaccurate and inconsistent.
My sporter shoots minute of angle- but that's a sporter...

emcon5
December 10, 2011, 09:50 PM
Hmm, I have seen sniper variants for around 300, but that maybe geographical price difference.

That would be a reproduction (http://www.jgsales.com/mosin-nagant-91-30-sniper-rifle-with-scope,-7.62x54r-caliber.-p-1541.html). Century imported a ton of these. It is a reproduction scope and mount slapped on a run-of-the mill 91/30, and the accuracy could be decent, or could be crap. It really is luck of the draw.

Real 91/30 snipers are available from RGUNS for $800 (http://www.rguns.net/rifles/rifles-bolt.shtml) if you have your C&R FFL. Royal Tiger shows them as "coming soon (http://www.royaltigerimports.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=385&category_id=17)" for $700, and claim they are "unissued" (color me skeptical)

Honestly for the price you would be better off getting a M1 from the CMP (http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm).

Or you could by this guy a deer rifle..... (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471117)

Tempest 455
December 10, 2011, 10:58 PM
To shoot 100-200 yards or less, most Mosin's need the front sight post lengthend about .060". Otherwise you are going to shoot high. You can buy a front sight tool to move the front sight for windage.

wnycollector
December 11, 2011, 08:23 AM
I'm not sure if the civilian marksmanship program allows scout scope setups, but that will allow you to get a real M/N sniper inexpensively. Rguns has ex-sniper M/N's for $155. You can add an S&K Scout scope mount for $62 here http://kinneysshootingsupply.com/mounts-sk9170-mosinnagant-9130-9159-scout-mount-p-671.html and a 4x pistol scope for $85 here http://www.midwayusa.com/product/612887/simmons-prohunter-pistol-scope-4x-32mm-truplex-reticle-matte

With Prvi or S&B match 7.62x54 ammo you should have a very nice shooting M/N for less than $300.

kraigwy
December 11, 2011, 09:05 AM
I'm not sure if the civilian marksmanship program allows scout scope setups,

They don't.

Logs
December 11, 2011, 09:26 AM
I shot the 100 anniversary m1 Garand match at few years ago. Big fun. Shot with a guy who bought a rack grade that day and shot the match. If you get some extra cash look at the Garand sweet rifles and accurate.....

benogil
December 11, 2011, 09:33 AM
Both Samco and Rguns have ex-snipers. Russian sniper rifles were chosen by the factories, pretty stringent trials ( 10 rounds at or under 1 1/4 " at 100 meters ).
Although the ex-snipers have replaced bolts, triggers and stocks, ( except for the Samco's ), they still offer an excellent value.
The ex- snipers are not just your run-of-the-mill 91/30 with a mount slapped on.

tobnpr
December 11, 2011, 10:27 AM
I understand about the selection process for the snipers...
But, they were.designated as such when new.
75 years later, and who knows how many thousands of corrosive rounds down the tube, do we really know they'll shoot tighter groups than a re-arsenaled, lightly used 91/30 with a great bore?

Just askin...
I'm thinking about another sporter just for the fun of it, anyone have real-world experience with these "ex-snipers"?

Why were they decomissioned from their role as sniper rifles to begin with- not because of a drop-off in accuracy?

Tempest 455
December 11, 2011, 08:44 PM
To answer your question, with work on the stock and trigger, you can get at least 1 MOA with the stock barrel.

TxFlyFish
December 11, 2011, 08:59 PM
I had a RGUNS sniper and it shot m75 prvi ammo at one inch at 100yd, really regret selling it. We had several other mosins and shot them all to 500yds scoped and 250 yd with irons

GunXpatriot
December 12, 2011, 03:22 AM
Yeah, the best thing to do is to just experiment with handloading, although, that's a whole different ball game I suppose. :)

I truly feel that with proper loads, a mosin can stand up to modern high quality firearms. But that also will depend on a little luck, considering that not all mosins have the physical means to be accurate. (Bad bore, etc.) Like I said, just give it a little experimenting with hand loading and different types of ammo if hand loading isn't for you. I know that in time, you'll find what works.

benogil
December 12, 2011, 10:53 AM
The ex-snipers were retired because of the cost of maintaining the optics. Many are in immaculate condition ( never fired beyond factory approval ). Quite a few people restore them to sniper configuration, and work on the triggers and bolts.
Their extreme accuracy is still evident. In a rack of Mosin's, identifying an ex is an art by itself. Although, sometimes it is made easy by just looking for the holes inside the receiver wall.

rickyrick
December 12, 2011, 12:39 PM
That would be a reproduction. Century imported a ton of these. It is a reproduction scope and mount slapped on a run-of-the mill 91/30, and the accuracy could be decent, or could be crap. It really is luck of the draw.

Real 91/30 snipers are available from RGUNS for $800 if you have your C&R FFL. Royal Tiger shows them as "coming soon" for $700, and claim they are "unissued" (color me skeptical)

Honestly for the price you would be better off getting a M1 from the CMP.


ok thanks for the info, I never paid to close attention to them. I love my Mosin, but I wouldn't pay more than 100bucks for any mosin...

Tempest 455
December 12, 2011, 04:27 PM
ok thanks for the info, I never paid to close attention to them. I love my Mosin, but I wouldn't pay more than 100bucks for any mosin...


91/30's yes. But Finn's way more.

M38/44's are a little more than double.