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Vermonter
December 8, 2011, 09:06 PM
Guilty as charged. I was doing 56 in a 40. I thought it was still 50 however I was wrong. I do feel however that this went as well as it could have as far as me carrying was concerned. The situation went as follows.
Officer: Hello may i see your licence, registration, and insurance card

Me: Yessir so you know i carry for protection

Officer: Thanks for telling me where is it?

Me: Left hip sir

Officer: Ok nothing sudden leave your left hand on the wheel and use your right hand to go into the glove box.

I retrieved the insurance and reg and he actually cut me a break for being so cool about the ccw thing. When he returned he stated that it was smart not to supprise an officer with a firearm. I have seen discussions on weather to mention it or not. I have been pulled over while carrying twice here in VT and both officers appreciated being told.

nc eyedoc
December 8, 2011, 09:21 PM
More or less the same thing happened to me. NC requires you to tell the officer so I gave him my CC card. He let me off with a warning. I think the CC and disclosure was the reason I got a break ;)

jimbob86
December 8, 2011, 09:25 PM
Depends upon the state you are in. In Nebraska, you are required to inform. In Colorado, you are not. These states have reciprocity (Permits from both states are honored by both states), but the rules are different. Know the rules.

I have informed the officer all 3 times I have been pulled over (voltage issue burns out tail lights/turn signals at irregular intervals-flood damage sucks) and all 3 times they pretty much asked where it was and said leave it there ...... one (local county deputy) of them asked what I was Carrying, and we got to talking guns......

AK103K
December 8, 2011, 09:34 PM
I dont say anything unless they were to ask directly, or if I were to be asked to get out, neither of which has happened yet, and Ive been pulled over more than I care to admit (its a lot better now that we dont have local yokels with their vascar/infared and the state troopers use radar. Thank you Mr Fuzz Buster! :) )

I really dont see its any of their business anyway, as the issue isnt the gun, but my driving.

Vermonter
December 8, 2011, 09:46 PM
It seems to show them a sense of responsibility on your part and put them at ease so i will continue to do so. Vermont has no law i know of,

checkmyswag
December 8, 2011, 09:47 PM
In some ways it may help out. Yes, they know you're armed, but at least you don't have a criminal record.

shootniron
December 8, 2011, 09:55 PM
the issue isnt the gun, but my driving.

My state has no requirement, so I never mention it.

MrDontPlay
December 8, 2011, 10:07 PM
I've been pulled over once with a gun. We he walked up I had my right hand on the steering wheel and my CCW and DL out the window in my other. I just said I have my CCW permit. Don't say "I have a gun." IMO it seems like if they know you are responsible enough for CCW they may even cut you a break.

Another time I got rearended, I had 2 guns on me and didn't say anything. Cop either didn't notice or didn't care, they both print pretty bad.

plouffedaddy
December 8, 2011, 10:22 PM
I was pulled over once while carrying and was a passenger in a pulled over car while carrying. Both times went pretty much as the OP stated. Cops just said to keep my hands away from it in plain sight...

I was a cop before concealed carry was allowed in MA and I'm pretty sure I would have handled it the same way should it have been allowed under the law.

TexasJustice7
December 8, 2011, 10:38 PM
In Texas we are required to present both the driver's license and the concealed weapons license. I might be driving in Arkansas, Oklahoma, or Lousiana. Anyone know regarding those 3 states which have reciprical agreements with Texas as to whether those 3 states require presenting
the permit and the license to the law officer?
:confused:

checkmyswag
December 8, 2011, 10:59 PM
I just said I have my CCW permit. Don't say "I have a gun."

In Texas we are required to present both the driver's license and the concealed weapons license.

Good stuff.

farmerboy
December 9, 2011, 01:21 AM
so now were pulled over for something we prob did but I believe attitude has so much most of the time anyway. Yes some are going to cite you just because you made them have to work but I believe the most part a good attitude can have the citation turn into a verbal warning or a written warning. Just what I believe anyhow and especially letting them know you have a gun instead of them finding it. Just common courtesy

Sparks1957
December 9, 2011, 04:28 AM
Vermont has no law i know of

That's quite right... we have some of the most liberal gun laws in the country. Perfectly legal to open- or concealed-carry anywhere except the usual places like schools, courthouses, federal buildings, etc. Loaded weapons in cars are fine.

You did the right thing telling the officer. Better to avoid any surprises, and the majority of cops will appreciate the consideration I would think.

Sparks1957
December 9, 2011, 04:31 AM
Anyone know regarding those 3 states which have reciprical agreements with Texas as to whether those 3 states require presenting the permit and the license to the law officer?

The best site I know of for researching such stuff...

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Cheers

Don P
December 9, 2011, 09:31 AM
Not required in FLA but I will notify at a traffic stop. Neither one of us wants a surprise specially me not wanting to get shot.

jrothWA
December 9, 2011, 09:54 AM
sometimes you don't get the chance. (Been ther, Done that)
After the LEO has finished I usually inform that I'm exercising a CPL.

Travel to other state, basically I follow MI law and inform. (unless its a no carry).

Have actually made a lexan rectangle with "MI CPL" stickers on it and will hold it in left hand facing the LEO. (after confirming actual LEO, there have been some instances of phony cops in MI.)

besafe2
December 9, 2011, 11:47 AM
To the op, had I been the leo it would've went the way you described.

spacecoast
December 9, 2011, 11:59 AM
Vermont has no requirement to inform the officer, however with your gun on your hip it was a good idea to do so.

I don't inform when stopped in Florida (only happened once), my gun's in the center console, with no reason to go in there.

Scout
December 9, 2011, 12:04 PM
After having my poor wife held at gunpoint by an idiot, I never tell.

Skans
December 9, 2011, 12:18 PM
Florida has no requirement to tell the Officer. However, if I don't have the gun in my glove box, I believe I'd mention it to him. It's seldom that I get pulled over for speeding anymore (I drive a jeep and speed limits are much higher now). On those rare occasions that I do, I've never had a problem with the any of the officers. Besides, I would think the officer can check out if you have a carry permit on their laptop before even approaching you - so what's the point in not saying something?

spacecoast
December 9, 2011, 12:23 PM
However, if I don't have the gun in my glove box, I believe I'd mention it to him

Skans, in case this is directed at me, the gun is essentially in my glovebox (the enclosed center console), enclosed/encased as required by law. I don't inform because I'm not required to and as Scout mentioned, some officers get a little weird about it. If he/she asks if I have a gun around, I won't lie, but I don't think officers' problems are with those who carry legally anyway.

MrDontPlay
December 9, 2011, 12:28 PM
If your in a state like MO where you can keep a loaded gun in your car with no CCW, a little careful wording goes a long ways. Inform them that you have a "firearm" in the car, not "gun" or "gat" and "weapon" is a little to vague.

I do everything I can to not get popped by some Springfield rookie cop.

egor20
December 9, 2011, 12:30 PM
I always keep my DL and Permit in my breast pocket, I've been pulled over once (broken tail light), Informed the officer I was carrying and gave him both. He just asked where it was and not to move my hands from the wheel. We ended up talking guns for about 15 minutes, no ticket, just a verbal warning.

Single Six
December 9, 2011, 01:02 PM
As a full-time LEO, I appreciate my fellow citizens exercising their rights. I have yet to pull over such a person who was anything but polite and courteous. Knowing as I do that many LEOs have had their lives saved by CCW folks, I'm all for it. The only way I'll give them a hard time is if they have a CCW license, but yet are NOT carrying.;)

wun_8_seven
December 9, 2011, 01:16 PM
In Texas we are required to present both the driver's license and the concealed weapons license. I might be driving in Arkansas, Oklahoma, or Lousiana. Anyone know regarding those 3 states which have reciprical agreements with Texas as to whether those 3 states require presenting
the permit and the license to the law officer?


Oklahoma is a must inform state

egor20
December 9, 2011, 01:23 PM
I'll give them a hard time is if they have a CCW license, but yet are NOT carrying.

Me and my wife always knows when we're each going to the Commissary or the PX.

No gun LoL. :D

pgdion
December 9, 2011, 01:53 PM
No law to disclose in MN either unless asked. I would think the officer would appreciate being told though and if it makes the officer happy, then it makes me happy. ;-) I also know that the officers I've spoke with are quite supportive of the permit to carry. One guy said they have never had an issue with a person with a carry permit (regarding the gun of course). I would think it might just cut you a little break (between the politeness and the responsibility and training that comes with the permit it might slip you onto the good side of the fence :) ). Thanks for sharing.

secret_agent_man
December 9, 2011, 02:36 PM
Has it been considered that a duty to inform could unconstitutional under the Fourth Amendment? Stopping a motorist doesn't give the cops the right to go on a fishing expedition. On the other hand, maybe it falls withing the scope of the Terry search and you're being let off light on the basis of your verbal statemet in lieu of a frisk. Whatever the case, seems like not informing is protected by the Fourth, and the Terry search is within the right of the police. And of course, one of the dangers here lies in informing a police impersonator.

Vermonter
December 9, 2011, 09:45 PM
My point of offering up the information is to show them that there is nothing for me to hide. If i should be asked to step out of the vehicle i dont want a pat down to reveal my gun.

ltc444
December 9, 2011, 10:13 PM
Based on the Canton OH situation, I have pondered this question at length.

I have asked several officers what their training is. To my suprise AZ does not appear to have a standard. One AZ State Trooper told me that Officers have not been trained nor is there a published standard for dealing with concealed carry. One Deputy I spoke with also confirmed this lack of procedures.

My personal procedure is to hand my CCW and DL to the Officer. I also when stopped at night Turn on the interior lights, roll my window down and place both hands on the wheel of my truck. Any moves I make are slow and deliberate. "Slow as lasses in winter".

Since my registration and proof of insurance is in my center console along with a pistol, I inform the Officer and follow his instructions to the letter. I will probably place my registration and proof of insurance in the side pocket.

When in Pinal County, I do not stop for a deputy unless I am in a well lighted location with other people present. I also request a DPS Officer respond. The reason for this is another story.

Hunter Rose
December 9, 2011, 10:13 PM
Some states have a requirement to inform, some don't. I figure it's just easier to go ahead and inform...

spaniel
December 9, 2011, 10:23 PM
My home state is a not-required-to-inform state but my state of birth (where there is reciprocity) is a must-inform state. I had one experience where I needed to call police in my state of birth and as the law requires I informed them I was CCW as soon as they arrived to deal with the situation (in which I was a victim). First officer was professional, second was a nervous SOB. I ended up not only having my weapon taken away (understandable) but being subjected to a full-body frisk afterwards. Idiot had no clue on reciprocity. Then he tried to refuse to give me my ammo back, saying that I may reload my gun and shoot him before he could drive away. Really, that was what he said, after I called THEM as the victim of a crime. During most of the encounter he had his hand on his weapon.

After that experience, I would never inform unless I had to..either by law or because there was a realistic chance the office would find out I was carrying...like having to get out of the car during a stop.

After my experience with a couple LEOs on an identical thread to this on another forum, my concerns and beliefs have only been reinforced.

shootniron
December 9, 2011, 11:31 PM
After my experience with a couple LEOs on an identical thread to this on another forum, my concerns and beliefs have only been reinforced.


My experience also over on DC, really makes me question why they became police officers and also makes me very leery of them.

stephen426
December 9, 2011, 11:57 PM
I am from Florida and I have been pulled over several times for speeding and I had a weapon in the car each time.

The first instance was before I was before I was even 21 and was made by city of the city Miami Beach (day time). I was legally carrying my gun in the glove box in a snapped holster. As soon as I was pulled over, I put down the windows and placed both hands on the window. I instructed my buddy who was riding with me to do the same. I told the officers that I was legally carrying a firearm and that it was in the glove box. I also have my license and regstration in there so it would be a pretty bd idea to go fishing for them with a gun in there. The officers made us get out of the car, patted us down (after telling them we had a gun in the car), and proceeded to remove the guns. They wrote me a ticket and handed me back the guns unloaded. This was pretty much as expected except for the pat down. City of Miami Beach cops are known for being jerks though.

I was pulled over by the Highway Patrol on the FL Turnpike going 102 mph in a 70 mph. It was really late at night and there were no cars on the road. Since it was at night, I turned on the interior light first. I then put down the windows and put my hands out of the window. I had another friend with me and instructed him to do the same. When he arrived at my window, I told him I had a loaded weapon in the car and a concealed weapons permit. He asked me where the gun was and I told him it was in the glove compartment. He asked to remove the gun, but he allowed us to stay in the car. He asked if I knew why I was pulled over and I gave him a straight answer. I told him I knew I was speeding, but I wasn't paying attention to how fast I was going. I had quite a ways to go still and we had the music up (which I turned off as soon as we were pulled over). He came back with a ticket for an obstructed tag (non-moving violation that cost around $50) and told me to drive safe. 32 mph over would have been a $300+ ticket and could have been written up as reckless endangerment. He thanked me for telling him I had a gun on the car and told me to drive safely after he handed me back the gun.

Although Florida does not require me to notify a police officer that I am carrying a weapon, I will continue to do so. First of all, it will greatly reduce the chance of me getting shot if he sees the gun and over-reacts. Secondly, it might get me off with a lesser fine.

nogo
December 10, 2011, 12:20 AM
Last week I was pulled over at night for no tag light. I informed the officer that I was carrying--Texas CHL. He issued a warning ticket and then we discussed guns for 15 minutes. This was the 3rd time being pulled over in Texas with a CCH--handgun on me. No problems at all. Of course, I did not give the cop any reasons to do otherwise.

Texas has allowed concealed carry since 1996, and the holders of CCH's as a group have had an outstanding record as nonviolators of Texas criminal law.
Here, if you screw up, you lose it.

Skans
December 10, 2011, 08:37 AM
Skans, in case this is directed at me, the gun is essentially in my glovebox (the enclosed center console), enclosed/encased as required by law. I don't inform because I'm not required to and as Scout mentioned, some officers get a little weird about it. If he/she asks if I have a gun around, I won't lie, but I don't think officers' problems are with those who carry legally anyway.

I wasn't very clear clear, but what I meant by the gun not being in the glove box is that the gun is on my person or right next to me in easy reach. In that case, I would promptly advise the officer that I am armed and licensed. If its locked in my glove box, I might not mention anything.

However, I am inclined to start making it a habit to advice the police that I'm licensed and armed if I'm ever stopped. My reason for this is that I drive quite a bit in Florida, Georgia, N. Carolina, S. Carolina and Tennessee. When it's 12:00 am I might not remember which state goes with what laws.....

Oh, and I make it a point to never drive my vehicle north of the Mason-Dixon line - that's a different world up there!:D

MLeake
December 10, 2011, 10:50 AM
I had my second encounter with LE while carrying a couple weeks ago. I wasn't pulled over, though. A girl apparently hydroplaned, lost control of her car, and spun into the auto hauler trailer on which we were towing my wife's car.

Had a deputy sheriff respond first. Since there were no injuries, we had to wait a while, in the rain, for the TN state trooper.

The collision had sheared my hitch at the weld, so stopping the rig, connected only by chains, on wet road took a while. Got stopped, and ran back on the shoulder to check on the other driver while my wife called 911.

Girl was ok, though apologetic and crying. My wife, the dogs and I were ok. Some Samaritans had stopped, so I left the girl with them and walked back, in the pouring rain, to my truck.

I had locked my gun in the truck vault when the deputy arrived at the girl's car - or more accurately, the point at which her car left the interstate. (In a ditch; looked totaled.)

Since we were a quarter mile from my gun, I didn't bring it up.

Deputy, as he was leaving, said I should wait at my truck for the trooper.

When the trooper arrived, I told him that I had a permit, and the gun was in the truck. He said "Don't worry about that, let's look for damage and you can tell me what happened."

IE a non-event.

Now in general, I keep my wallet accessible and away from my gun while driving. I keep registration and insurance in the glove box, and the gun on my person or in the console vault. I proactively will not display a weapon by going for wallet or paperwork.

But I still notify. I really do not want to surprise the officer. In his place, I would not like the surprise. I consider it an issue of courtesy.

bikerbill
December 10, 2011, 01:54 PM
Pulled over on a freeway in Arkansas a few months ago, immediately informed him I had a Texas CHL and a loaded firearm in the car. He asked me where it was, told him in the door pocket, he said leave it there, got me out of the car, asked me if I had any other weapons, told him a 3-inch folder clipped to weakside pocket, he said he didn't care about knives, patted me down and gave me a warning for right front wheel over the curb white line (!!) .. was pulled over in my own town a few weeks ago for not having a front plate, again informed, told him it was in the glovebox, gave me a warning to replace the plate, which I did the next day. Both guys were very friendly (Arkie asked what I was carrying and we chatted about Kahrs for a bit) ...

Vermonter
December 10, 2011, 07:47 PM
I can immagine my buddies and i. "sir there are four long guns in here four handguns and about seven million knives" lol

Sparks1957
December 11, 2011, 06:11 AM
7 million knives? Wow! ;)

TexasJustice7
December 11, 2011, 10:45 AM
SingleSix: As a full-time LEO, I appreciate my fellow citizens exercising their rights. I have yet to pull over such a person who was anything but polite and courteous. Knowing as I do that many LEOs have had their lives saved by CCW folks, I'm all for it. The only way I'll give them a hard time is if they have a CCW license, but yet are NOT carrying.

I suppose you were kidding about giving them a hard time. On trips I make going onto federal property I don't carry. I have yet to be stopped in Texas or anywhere in the past several years, since I got my CWP. But coming from a family who are in law enforcement, I am always respectful toward
law enforcement if I am stopped. I saw where some with lots of traffic tickets say they can't get their CWP renewed. I think that only happens in Texas if someone does not pay their tickets.:)

Nordeste
December 11, 2011, 12:06 PM
But I still notify. I really do not want to surprise the officer. In his place, I would not like the surprise. I consider it an issue of courtesy.

You have just nailed it. Everyone appreciates it when you come across whoever makes your life easier, whether they are legally required to do so, or not.

moose_nukelz
December 11, 2011, 12:12 PM
While it may be your right not to notify on a traffic stop, just know that we (LEO's) do not like surprises. If you reach for your paperwork and I see a firearm you didn't tell me about don't get upset when I put my weapon in your ear then prone you out on the pavement. Do us both a favor and let us know about it, as long as you are legally carrying don't make a minor traffic stop into something a lot worse.

spaniel
December 11, 2011, 12:57 PM
I would never want to allow for a situation where the officer would discover I'm carrying by surprise, of course, but if I'm carrying IWB and hand my documentation over when they arrive at the window that's not going to happen. Now if they want me to get out of the car, I'll let them know.

The one time I did inform (required by law in that state) the officer at first refused to give me my ammo back and said he was afraid I'd reload and shoot him before he could leave...this in a situation where I'd called them as the victim of a crime. A couple times during the encounter he was so jittery I was afraid he was going to draw on me. It was a very stressful experience.

In other threads like this people have shared experiences where a well-intentioned FYI to an officer turned into staring down the barrel of a service pistol...one LEO said if someone was kind enough to inform him he'd "tell them not to do anything stupid or he'd shoot them in the f$%king face". How professional, really encourages voluntary cooperation.

I'm glad people here have had good experiences and the LEO who have chimed in seem reasonable. But in LEO like any other profession, there are good apples and bad ones. I have nothing to gain by informing in a situation where the LEO would not discover the firearm, but significant risk if they are the bad type. I'll pay the extra ticket cost, if that's all it will save me.

I obey laws so I've only been pulled over a couple times...last time I was carrying IWB with my wife and two kids in the car. I had no legal obligation to inform, and nothing to gain if some jumpy officer was going to point a weapon at my family. I did not inform, I was polite and cooperative and had my documents ready when they got to my car, got a warning, and went on my way.

Vermonter
December 11, 2011, 10:33 PM
For me that would mean digging in the glove box across the bench seat of the truck. I would think that would be an excellent way to make an officer jumpy. I kill the engine, turn on interior lights, keep my hands where they are, and awaite my instructions.

These guys deal with enough scum and bs. I figure it is good to make their lives easier and let em know from the start Im a good guy. I dont do drugs, dont drive if ive had too many, and generally do nothing illegal so i have zero to hide. I just dont see a point in holding back.

farmerboy
December 11, 2011, 11:23 PM
For the most part everyone seems very courtesy. I said earlier that a good attitude will carry you so much farther I'n most cases. Most seem like the perfect person I'n a traffic stop. Very nice, don't move quickly and preferably hands I'n plain view, i like people to tell me if carrying up front(though I'n Texas you don't have to unless asked) and try and be polite and that's what i try to give I'n return. Although I know every once I'n a while you get a bad apple to pull you over and show no courtesy but for most part we (Leo) are just doing our jobs and yes occasionally will have to deal with butts. Everyone does have bad days but if a person gets stopped and comes across an a$$ alot of times it doesn't work out in the end I'n their favor. And yes i don't like surprises either

TexasJustice7
December 12, 2011, 08:46 AM
Farmboy: I'n Texas you don't have to unless asked) and try and be polite and that's what i try to give I'n return. Although I know every once I'n a while you get a bad apple to pull you over and show no courtesy but for most part we (Leo) are just doing our jobs and yes occasionally will have to deal with butts. Everyone does have bad days but if a person gets stopped and comes across an a$$ alot of times it doesn't work out in the end I'n their favor. And yes i don't like surprises either

Not disputing what it used to be but my information in my CWP class was that you must inform any LEO if stopped and present both your CWP and
driver's license. Like anything else it might have changed since then, but
I don't believe it has.:)

cnimrod
December 12, 2011, 09:51 AM
is your own attitude.
As others have noted being calm and respectful is always a good idea. That said as one of our LEO 's mentioned rookies are still learning. Had a hunting buddy and friends here in NJ go through a local DWI check some years back on their way to NY for rifle season. Don't recall all the details but one stated they were going hunting and had guns in the car. They ended up being detained for several hours while everyone and every gun was checked out. One senior officer who was not on scene originally did apologize to them and explain this only happened because they were rookies.
I've since been stopped for speeding several times while going hunting (always seem to be in a rush to squeeze in more time:o I don't announce I have a gun in the car (It's always been upstate where guns and hunting are more mainstream) but I am dressed for hunting and I'm sure they know.
I don't carry a handgun but if I did, common sense tells me the last thing i would want to do is startle an officer with a gun or the announcement of one.
Good thread, I'll have to pass on the father who does have a carry license.

Spats McGee
December 12, 2011, 10:21 AM
I might be driving in Arkansas, Oklahoma, or Lousiana. Anyone know regarding those 3 states which have reciprical agreements with Texas as to whether those 3 states require presenting the permit and the license to the law officer?
The Arkansas statute reads as follows:
(a) Any licensee possessing a valid license issued pursuant to this subchapter may carry a concealed handgun.
(b) The licensee shall:
(1) Carry the license, together with valid identification, at any time when the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun; and
(2) Display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.
Ark. Code Ann. ยง 5-73-315 (West)

The way I read this, if you're carrying, you have to present both ID and your CCL to any LEO on demand. As a practical matter, however, many officers believe that if you have a CCL, you need to let that fact be known to the LEO know upon contact.

My personal opinion: I'd probably go ahead and mention it whether you're carrying or not. I'm not sure which states put CHCL information in NCIC, but Arkansas does. If I run an Arkansas driver's license through ACIC/NCIC, it will tell me if that person has their CHCL. That being the case, I know that if I'm stopped, the officer's going to find out about my CHCL, regardless of whether I inform him or her.

Another personal opinion: I think how you notify is every bit as important as whether you notify. There's a world of difference between:
a) saying, "Good evening, officer. Here's my ID and my CHCL. There's a pistol on my right hip. How would you like for me to proceed?" and
b) screaming, "I HAVE A GUN!"

gofast1320
December 12, 2011, 10:36 AM
I would never want to allow for a situation where the officer would discover I'm carrying by surprise, of course, but if I'm carrying IWB and hand my documentation over when they arrive at the window that's not going to happen. Now if they want me to get out of the car, I'll let them know.

The one time I did inform (required by law in that state) the officer at first refused to give me my ammo back and said he was afraid I'd reload and shoot him before he could leave...this in a situation where I'd called them as the victim of a crime. A couple times during the encounter he was so jittery I was afraid he was going to draw on me. It was a very stressful experience.

In other threads like this people have shared experiences where a well-intentioned FYI to an officer turned into staring down the barrel of a service pistol...one LEO said if someone was kind enough to inform him he'd "tell them not to do anything stupid or he'd shoot them in the f$%king face". How professional, really encourages voluntary cooperation.

I'm glad people here have had good experiences and the LEO who have chimed in seem reasonable. But in LEO like any other profession, there are good apples and bad ones. I have nothing to gain by informing in a situation where the LEO would not discover the firearm, but significant risk if they are the bad type. I'll pay the extra ticket cost, if that's all it will save me.

I obey laws so I've only been pulled over a couple times...last time I was carrying IWB with my wife and two kids in the car. I had no legal obligation to inform, and nothing to gain if some jumpy officer was going to point a weapon at my family. I did not inform, I was polite and cooperative and had my documents ready when they got to my car, got a warning, and went on my way.

Wow! What I would have done is ask for a supervisor to visit the scene and followed through with a statement or whatever the supervisor said do. I stopped a fellow about 2 am for speeding who was all jumpy and nervous and when I asked if he had any guns, knives etc he got freaky. Turns out he had a loaded .45 under the front seat. After checking to make sure gun was not stolen and hearing why he had it there (he wasn't carrying to go armed he was returning from his farm where they had been shooting) I unloaded it put rounds in the bed of his truck, uncuffed him and sent him on the way with a speeding ticket- Oh yeah, told him if he wanted to ride around with a loaded gun to either get a job in LE or get a carry permit. Not everyone with a gun is a bad person, lot more good folks out there than bad we just hear about the bad all the time.

taurus4life
December 12, 2011, 11:29 AM
I really dont see its any of their business anyway, as the issue isnt the gun, but my driving
if i was an officer ,a gun in a car seems like i would want it to be my business. not every one is a law abiding citizen.

secret_agent_man
December 12, 2011, 01:28 PM
don't get upset when I put my weapon in your ear then prone you out on the pavement

Is that behavior within the scope of a Terry stop?

This is reminiscent of a time when the police considered possession of a handgun by even honest citizens to evidence of criminal intent, whether there was a law against it or not.

spaniel
December 13, 2011, 07:59 AM
"For me that would mean digging in the glove box across the bench seat of the truck. I would think that would be an excellent way to make an officer jumpy. I kill the engine, turn on interior lights, keep my hands where they are, and awaite my instructions.

These guys deal with enough scum and bs. I figure it is good to make their lives easier and let em know from the start Im a good guy. I dont do drugs, dont drive if ive had too many, and generally do nothing illegal so i have zero to hide. I just dont see a point in holding back."

1), I'd rather dig in the glovebox and have my hands stationary and visible when they arrive, rather than have to dig when they're at the window.

2) Just because you don't have something to hide does not mean you will be treated that way. I did not have anything to hide and had to spend some very stressful minutes anyways. Some have ended up having a gun pointed at them, been cuffed, had their car searched, or been detained all for disclosing a legally carried gun when they have nothing to hide.

I have no ill intent for any officer. If I don't tell them about a gun -- legal in my state -- I have nothing to gain except headaches by informing.

grabngo
December 13, 2011, 10:46 AM
It's likely always best to disclose the permit first, and then the weapon. Most LE personnel will tell you that; Whether or not your State has a disclosure law. Being right won't keep you from being shot. Being forthcoming will.

spacecoast
December 13, 2011, 04:32 PM
It's likely always best to disclose the permit first, and then the weapon. Most LE personnel will tell you that; Whether or not your State has a disclosure law.

You mean those guys who are sworn to uphold the law? I'm sorry, but I see those guys as my peers (even my employees in an indirect sense). I respect them and will support them doing their job, but do not fear them or feel compelled to offer them information about myself that they do not need to know or have a right to know under the law.

Polynikes
December 13, 2011, 06:34 PM
I've done my best to carefully orchestrate my traffic stop procedure, though thankfully, I have not had an opportunity to put it into practice as of yet. I'm not required to notify here in CO, but I figure that anything I can do to make a traffic stop less stressful likely won't hurt. However, if I'm stopped on the street and ID is demanded, that's a different story entirely...but I digress. ;)

Anyway, both my DL and my CCW are in a thin leather bi-fold that I carry in my back pocket. When I get in the car, I drop it in the center console cup holder, where it's plainly visible. My other vehicle docs are in a plastic envelope tucked under the passenger side visor. When stopped, and after confirming that the person walking up behind me is a legitimate LEO, my plan is to wait with both hands visible at the top of the steering wheel, interior light on at night, with the driver window down. When asked to produce my information, I'll verbally inform the officer where each item is before slowly reaching for and handing them over. Neither place should look like I'm reach for anything concealed and there's no digging around involved. Upon seeing the CCW, if the officer wants to know where the handgun is, I'll tell him.

Wagonman
December 14, 2011, 01:38 AM
. Is that behavior within the scope of a Terry stop?

No but it is when I see a weapon that I don't know about on a traffic stop.

Seems reasonable to me. I wish everybody CCWed, let's just be adult about it.

dean1818
December 14, 2011, 07:57 AM
I think some folks are seeking some type of confrontation.


My personal opinion is the cops are there to do a job. There are some bad apples everywhere, but i think if we are polite and dont do anything stupid

The VAST majority of LEOs are not going to create havoc for a CCWer.

If I were an LEO walking up on a car at night, and I get a jerk with an attitude I would probably be more blunt with that person, especially if he is armed and acting irratically.

We shouldnt treat an LEO as a king,........ Just with the level of respect we would all want.



The last time i was pulled over at night, I showed my DL and my CCL and
Kept my hands visible on the wheel.

He was very polite, and gave me a warning.....

Not a question asked about my weapon

Skadoosh
December 14, 2011, 08:12 AM
moose_nukelz wrote: While it may be your right not to notify on a traffic stop, just know that we (LEO's) do not like surprises. If you reach for your paperwork and I see a firearm you didn't tell me about don't get upset when I put my weapon in your ear then prone you out on the pavement.

And when you finally find out that I am legally carrying, don't be surprised when you and your department wind up facing a lawsuit.

jhenry
December 14, 2011, 08:23 AM
For what? If you reach for paperwork and the cop sees a gun near where you are reaching that he does not know about, you are certainly going to be stopped from further action until the situation is clarified. The lawsuit would be laughed out of court.

Skadoosh
December 14, 2011, 08:30 AM
Being yanked out of my car and "proned out with a gun jammed in my ear" while legally transporting a weapon would certainly be grounds enough.

jhenry
December 14, 2011, 08:50 AM
The basis for the suit would be what? If you were arrested and you were carrying legal that would be cause for a suit. If you were injured that would be cause. You may, MAY have cause for an official complaint or suit if the exact circumstances did not warrant getting placed on the ground. Good luck with that one. You would have nothing at all to go on regarding having the cop hold you at gun point for some period of time until the situation is made clear and safe. I can't imagine it would not involve getting you out of the vehicle.

The legal standard for the actual use of deadly force, that is actually perforating you with one or more bullets, is means/opportunity/intent. If the guy has no idea you have a gun and you reach for anything near it how is he to know you are not reaching for the pistol? This action would be just plain foolish. You have now met the bar for MEANS you clearly have a deadly weapon. You have met the bar for OPPORTUNITY, you are reaching for it (he can't possibly be a mind reader). You have not yet SAID you are going to use it, but it could be argued that reaching for it does display the intent to use it.

At any rate, any reasonable cop is going to absolutely stop further action on your part. Again, given those circumstances, the suit is a no starter. Reaching toward a weapon during a traffic stop is a ridiculous thing to do.

secret_agent_man
December 14, 2011, 08:51 AM
I think some folks are seeking some type of confrontation.

They're just interested in knowing the limits on police via the Fourth Amendment during vehicle stops in which they, the "stopee", have a gun. That's reasonable enough.

jimbob86
December 14, 2011, 09:01 AM
We shouldnt treat an LEO as a king,........ Just with the level of respect we would all want.


"Just with the level of respect we would all want." is all the respect I am giving a king ...... they did not earn that title, so it's meaningless to me. The newest deputy in our county at the very least has LE credentials.....

Scout
December 14, 2011, 09:05 AM
We Americans are naturally suspicious of authority. That's who we are. So, If I'm carrying and get pulled over, it's a crapshoot, in this state, whether I get a professional or some tool who will "put a gun in my ear." If I keep my mouth shut, as is my right unless directly questioned, then chances are great that no one will be getting road dust on their clothes or gun grease in their ears.

Skadoosh
December 14, 2011, 09:19 AM
The basis for the suit would be what?

Police brutality perhaps? Use of excessive force? I am sure my lawyer would come up with something that would stick.

AK103K
December 14, 2011, 09:29 AM
I still dont understand what the gun has to do with you being stopped for a traffic violation. Was the gun somehow a part of it? Was it the reason for it?

Another thing I dont get, is why would you be reaching for "anything" with the cop there. Dont you already have your paperwork in hand when he gets to the window? I know I always do. Not that Im doing anything wrong, but the last thing I want to do, is visibly offer up anything else than necessary for the business at hand. Whats in the glove box or console (or whole car for that matter) is my business, none of his. Unless of course, I make it his, by "unnecessarily" letting him see something unrelated to the matter at hand, that might draw interest. Why turn "nothing", into something else?

Since many seem to be so concerned about weapons and I guess the cops safety, do you also offer up your pocket knives, any pointy tools, impact type "weapons", ect, in the car or on your person? Arent they just as scary and dangerous?


I get the impression from some of the responses, this is more about showing the cop (or anyone else) you are a "big boy" too, and are "allowed" to have a gun, than it is about anything else. If youre not required to tell them, then its none of their business, unless they, or you, make it otherwise. At that point, you have to deal with it, not before.

Don P
December 14, 2011, 10:40 AM
And when you finally find out that I am legally carrying, don't be surprised when you and your department wind up facing a lawsuit

Law suit for what? Having a gun pulled on you?

Being yanked out of my car and "proned out with a gun jammed in my ear" while legally transporting a weapon would certainly be grounds enough.

Maybe, maybe not. My opinion. Now with all this chest pounding going on about unneeded info to LE and rights and I'm going to sue, it would just be easier to inform whether its the law or not just so everyone is on the same page and prevent the above quote. You folks can pound your chest and rant about rights and info, I
I'll just inform LE if stopped. My choice.

Rj1972
December 14, 2011, 10:52 AM
(by AK103K): Dont you already have your paperwork in hand when he gets to the window?

I've been wondering the same thing. When I get pulled over I have my license(s) in my hand and hands on the wheel with window rolled down before the officer gets to my door. BUT admittedly in Texas it's a little easier. I don't have to show insurance or registration because the officer looks it all up based on your license. I've had officer's tell me they don't need my insurance. Admittedly there's about a 3 second instance where the officer may see me "reach for something in my back pocket", but it's doubtful since I usually have it out of my back pocket before we're done coming to a stop.

It's also the reason why I hand them both licenses. In Texas it's required to inform, but there's no penalty to not do so. BUT when they run your license it will come back CCW and then you get to have the "well why didn't you inform, where is your gun, why are you trying to hide things etc..." conversation which I'll happily pass on.

spacecoast
December 14, 2011, 11:18 AM
I get the impression from some of the responses, this is more about showing the cop (or anyone else) you are a "big boy" too, and are "allowed" to have a gun, than it is about anything else.

I'm getting the same impression as well. Or maybe it's just that people are too lazy to check the law, even though it's simple to do so. As I said much earlier in the thread, I don't believe the officers' concerns (or problem children) are the folks who carry and are licensed to do so, and I seriously doubt that a decision to ticket or warn is influenced by the CCW license. So if I'm not required to inform, I won't. My choice.

Skadoosh
December 14, 2011, 11:21 AM
You folks can pound your chest

I would point out that it was the 'don't be surprised to be yanked from the car and a gun stuck yer ear' remark that was the chest pounding...

aarondhgraham
December 14, 2011, 11:38 AM
I would point out that it was the 'don't be surprised to be yanked from the car and a gun stuck yer ear' remark that was the chest pounding...

Not the right attitude for a public servant,,,
We citizens are not there to be "proned" for his pleasure.

The fact that he used those words in that type of statement,,,
Tells me he has the wrong attitude for the public trust.

Aarond

geetarman
December 14, 2011, 11:55 AM
^^^^^^^ What he said.

Geetarman

MLeake
December 14, 2011, 11:55 AM
spacecoast, ak103k, et al... do what you want. As you say, it's your option.

As far as the "big boy" thing goes, give me a break.

My CCW instructor for my first license, in Florida, recommended presenting the officer with DL and CCW, even though it isn't "required" in Florida.

LEO friends of mine have recommended the same.

Massad Ayoob recommends the same. (Told me so in person, in his class.)

So, while there may be some out there who are getting their big boy jollies, I'm just following the advice given me by people whose opinions I respect. So far, it has worked quite well, in my experience and in the experiences of those I know.

YMMV. But cut the BS psychological evaluations, thanks.

jborushko
December 14, 2011, 01:10 PM
i dont tell them i have a gun, but i also have my licence, registration, insurance card all ready for them when they walk up. If asked to get out of the car for a search would tell them, "Im carring a,legally, consealed weapon and there are a few knives in the car, i have a emergency diabetis kit in the glove box, blah blah.." but i believe they have to ask before doing a pat down anyway.

i imagine that if its a normal traffic violation type stop ie your not running from the cops or driving eratically as to avoid the cop or whatever... that the cop may or may not see a person going through the motions of getting his documents ready so would think "oh he is getting his papers, or farting, or whatever..."

i highly doubt that most cops think "OH CRAP HE IS MOVING AROUND OBVIASLY HE IS GRABBING A GUN!!"

secret_agent_man
December 14, 2011, 01:13 PM
Is that behavior within the scope of a Terry stop? No

Then you are conducting an illegal search. Any evidence of illegal activity subsequently found cannon be used against the motorist so stopped. You may be able to make this kind of stop all day and all night, proning people out with guns in their ears, but you will never get a conviction that will stand. What's the use?

TX_QtPi
December 14, 2011, 02:11 PM
Well, gentlemen.. I'm going to have to play devil's advocate here.

I would agree with wagonman. He's NOT talking about searching someone's car, NOT talking about walking up and yanking someone out of their car without reason, he IS talking about HIS situational awareness and the surprise introduction of a gun into the scenario...


No but it is when I see a weapon that I don't know about on a traffic stop.

Seems reasonable to me. I wish everybody CCWed, let's just be adult about it.

Sadly most people now a days if NOT restrained would get into a "let me explain, it's my right, I'll get you fired " argument with a gun drawn on them and reach for a license or make some other move that would lead to a more tragic event.

If a person did not disclose your CC-License, and more importantly their possession of a weapon and while fumbling for insurance, registration, ect.. a gun happens to peep out, then yes, for the officers safety it is more important that the person is restrained until the situation can be assessed and clarified. That's why it would be easier to start at the point of notification and work forward than to end up on the ground and work it back.

His actions of pulling someone out of the car and detaining them would "seem reasonable" to me too until he can assess his safety and they safety of the individual.

I always present my DL and CCL, then I EXPECT any LEO to ask IF I am carrying. If he doesn't BEFORE I move my hands to reach for anything I make him aware that I am carrying and what it is I am reaching for.
I think of others safety but I put MY SAFETY First. Sounds a bit over done but I'm not taking the chance of a rookie leo panicking and the vet leo's appreciate it.

MLeake
December 14, 2011, 02:17 PM
secret_agent_man, you are thinking about evidence gathering and admissibility. The LEO is thinking that most LEOs shot in the line of duty get shot during routine traffic stops; IE he isn't "investigating," he is making sure he goes home after his shift.

ripnbst
December 14, 2011, 03:11 PM
I think the safe bet is to notify anywhere. Whether or not you have to I wouldn't really care. I'd view it as a courtesy and also think it might get you out of the ticket. It's pretty much a certified good guy card.

jimbob86
December 14, 2011, 03:13 PM
It's pretty much a certified good guy card.

This.^

secret_agent_man
December 14, 2011, 03:16 PM
he isn't "investigating," he is making sure he goes home after his shift

I see what his objective is, and I fail to see how that justifies a search by police that is illegal under the Fourth Amendment.

MLeake
December 14, 2011, 03:32 PM
s-a-m, there is the world that is, and there is the world we would like there to be. You do what you want.

Van55
December 14, 2011, 04:22 PM
Disclosure is not required here in Virginia.

Nevertheless, I keep my permit in my wallet immediately behind my driver's license so that if I am stopped for an alleged traffic violation I will present the DL with the CCP obvious to the officer.

lawnboy
December 14, 2011, 04:23 PM
watch out for windmills

WVsig
December 14, 2011, 05:04 PM
Disclosure is not required here in Virginia.

Nevertheless, I keep my permit in my wallet immediately behind my driver's license so that if I am stopped for an alleged traffic violation I will present the DL with the CCP obvious to the officer.

Which is smart because as soon as they run your lic they will know you have a permit. It is on your lic file in VA.

WVsig
December 14, 2011, 05:09 PM
It's pretty much a certified good guy card.

I once had a cop who could not have been over 25 lecture me on how the DW CBOB I was carrying cocked and locked was dangerous. He insisted on taking possession of it and but had no idea of how to unload it. I had to get out of the car drop the mag, thumb the safety off and clear the gun.

IMHO that is simply not true. I have been pulled over maybe 6 times in 10+ years of having a CHP. Some officers do not give it a second thought. Some however have a huge chip on their shoulders. This cop had no clue but because he wore a badge he assumed that he i was right.

You mean those guys who are sworn to uphold the law? I'm sorry, but I see those guys as my peers (even my employees in an indirect sense). I respect them and will support them doing their job, but do not fear them or feel compelled to offer them information about myself that they do not need to know or have a right to know under the law.

Spacecoast is spot on with this post.

boostedtt91
December 14, 2011, 05:15 PM
anyone know about Pennsylvania? I can't find anything listed on Pa's gun laws

psyfly
December 14, 2011, 05:30 PM
While I'm sure there are smart-a$$ know-it-all LEOs out there, I've been lucky enough to not ever meet one professionally (there is this guy I see from time to time, socially, who is a LEO, a dumb-a$$, and a jerk but I don't know if that carries over to his job or not).

I have been stopped maybe 15+ times in my life (which may not be as often as it seems as I am getting on in years).

Never had any hassle about carrying and have always been treated professionally, with respect, including well before TX had a CHL law, and I've been carrying, for the most part, since before I had a driver's license.

I've never had a LEO act like he thought I should be afraid of him/her.

Hope it stays that way, but mostly, will hope for no direct interaction :).

W

PADefenseTrainer
December 14, 2011, 05:36 PM
I typically don't mention it unless I feel it is going to be an issue. For example if they ask me to step out of the car, I would say something. Although that's never happened to me.

I've worked with a lot of law enforcement individuals over the years, and while 99% of them are rational and decent, there are a couple of wackos with badges and guns. And the nuts don't wear a different color uniform (maybe they should).

Bottom line, if they don't need to know, I don't bring it up.

Cowboy_mo
December 14, 2011, 05:45 PM
I have a MO ccw permit. If I am traveling in MO and stopped by a State Patrolman I don't have to say anything because they have the MULES system which will pull up my info when they run my plate (before they ever approach the vehicle).

If I am going to be traveling in another state, I will know their rules and abide by them if a stop occurs.

If I am traveling in IL, I will NOT be carrying inside the vehicle and I will NOT (definitely NOT) disclose my permit status to the LEO. In fact, I have a MO non driver ID which lists my ccw status. I will hand an IL LEO my regular driver's license which does not show that I am a permit holder.

There have been several documented cases where LEO's in IL have searched the vehicle just because they knew the driver was a ccw permit holder. Therefore I just avoid the hassle.

aarondhgraham
December 14, 2011, 05:49 PM
There have been several documented cases where LEO's in IL have searched the vehicle just because they knew the driver was a ccw permit holder. Therefore I just avoid the hassle.

I just avoid the state entirely!

Aarond

egor20
December 14, 2011, 05:50 PM
boostedtt91
anyone know about Pennsylvania? I can't find anything listed on Pa's gun laws

According to Handgunlaws.us in Pa you do not have to inform.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

Very top of the page.

jimbob86
December 14, 2011, 05:56 PM
There have been several documented cases where LEO's in IL have searched the vehicle just because they knew the driver was a ccw permit holder. Therefore I just avoid the hassle.

I just avoid the state entirely!

Aarond


Me, too!

gofast1320
December 14, 2011, 06:10 PM
Cowboy Mo- Il LEOs searching a car because of a CCW permit. What's up with that? Any idea.

On the other hand I believe much about what goes on with traffic stops has to do with the totality of the circumstances.
Why were you stopped? Something obviously being or seeming out of place prior to or during the stop.
What time?
Where?
I've stopped numerous cars in my career because of an erratic move not everyone was drunk or high or involved in any type illegal action other than their operation of the vehicle. I would approach the vehicle after the stop, print it and at the drivers shoulder say something along the lines of "evening, morning I'm ------- with------ I stopped you because of the way you swerved into the other lane and jerked back (or whatever reason) is everyting okay? I've had responses from spilled some hot coffee on my crotch, my thong is riding up, their was a wasp in here, I was trying to make junior put the frog down and on and on and I've locked a good many drunks too.
Any officer that doesn't approach a vehicle during a traffic stop in a high state of alertness should not be approaching a vehicle. If they can't do that they should go home.

Conn. Trooper
December 14, 2011, 07:00 PM
This whole subject is like a bad penny that keeps turning up.

I don't like "suprise" guns on a traffic stop. Traffic stops are a very dangerous place for cops. I appreciate being told about the gun and just tell people not to put their hands near the gun. I ask for their pistol permit and make sure they are legit to own the gun, then send them on their way.

I would never ticket somebody just because they didn't tell me, but I have let people go because they did. Take that for what it's worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U6Q9oJ4WpI

Routine traffic stop, turns into a shooting.

Cops see a gun they are not told about, they are going to be concerned for their safety.

secret_agent_man
December 14, 2011, 07:22 PM
Cops see a gun they are not told about, they are going to be concerned for their safety.

Can't deny them that, but they must stay within the confines of the law, lest they become canon fodder for NBC DATELINE.:eek:

Skadoosh
December 14, 2011, 07:23 PM
I would never ticket somebody just because they didn't tell me, but I have let people go because they did. Take that for what it's worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U6Q9oJ4WpI

Routine traffic stop, turns into a shooting.

Cops see a gun they are not told about, they are going to be concerned for their safety.

....Seriously?

This isnt about shooting at a LEO. This is about whether a LEO can drag a citizen out of their vehicle at gunpoint for not informing if in a state where he/she isn't legally obligated too. Why you dragged that video into this conversation I do not understand. It was nothing but inflammatory and completely off-base.

Conn. Trooper
December 14, 2011, 07:29 PM
I dragged the video in because it shows why cops are concerned for their safety on a traffic stop. Didn't think that was confusing.

Trust me, every cop on earth wants to stay off NBC for doing something wrong. Me too. But I also want to go home at night, and bad things happen during traffic stops, see video above. Taking a traffic stop, and then throwing a gun into the mix, that maybe you thought they would never see, or would never know about, and bad things "can" happen. I don't want to get shot, even if I am "right" and it was all a mistake.

Skadoosh
December 14, 2011, 07:42 PM
I am concerned about my safety every time I step up to an ATM or visit the walmart...its why I carry. But I didn't bring it up.

My point is that, while they may reasonably be concerned for their safety, that doesn't give every LEO carte blanche to drag a citizen out their vehicle at gunpoint at the sight of a gun. Especially in states where it is legal to openly transport a handgun provided it is visible or concealed in a holster...and where there is no duty to inform. Like Virginia. Must make law enforcement a real bear of job to have to work in a state like this.

jhenry
December 14, 2011, 07:46 PM
It didn't confuse me.

....Seriously?

This isnt about shooting at a LEO. This is about whether a LEO can drag a citizen out of their vehicle at gunpoint for not informing if in a state where he/she isn't legally obligated too. Why you dragged that video into this conversation I do not understand. It was nothing but inflammatory and completely off-base.

Seriously? At what point did anybody advocate 'dragging a citizen out of their vehicle at gunpoint for not informing'? The whole issue was revolving around what an officer might do, or could do legally, if a person was reaching for papers of some sort and toward a gun. Whether the gun is legal or not is not really the issue. The absurd stupidity of reaching for or toward a gun the cop had no idea was there is the point. Ordering someone to get out of a vehicle is not "dragging" them out. Insuring their own safety is not an infringement on your rights. Exactly what right does a person have to make a move toward a weapon while have a discussion with a cop about a ticket or a flat tire or something? Please explain this right to me.

Shadi Khalil
December 14, 2011, 09:32 PM
If I'm carrying I notify, even though I don't have to. I then place my hands on the wheel, sit perfectly still and wait for my ticket.

wyohusker
December 14, 2011, 11:58 PM
Been carring for almost two years now. I never really thought about it much. After reading here I most definatley will be handing both permits to the officers. We are not obligated to do so. I just don't see the harm. I know if if I were an officer I would rather know if someone is carring.
Then again I live in Wyoming where you do not have to have a permit in the state to carry. If I were an officer here, I would asume EVERYONE is packing.

farmerboy
December 15, 2011, 12:36 AM
Also if i stop a CCW holder i assume they're legit as far as not a felon and all. And i tend to let them off with more verbal warnings. Just a thought. Also i don't like to make my way to vehicle and passenger is bent over digging I'n glove box (i have no idea what you're looking for). Better bet my hand is on my sidearm! Just wait until officer asks for info first. And last i hear people saying when you (Leo) or if he asks for CCW I'll show them because they can run me and find out I'm a CCW holder. Again, if i run you! I run only about 1 out of 5 people only and if i don't run you and find out and you don't give me your CCW license and i happen to see it I'n view or i get you out of vehicle and see it then we have a surprise. Again, i give alot more warnings to CCW holders. It's your call handle your business however you choose to.

TX_QtPi
December 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
wyohusker: Been carrying for almost two years now. I never really thought about it much. After reading here I most definitely will be handing both permits to the officers. We are not obligated to do so. I just don't see the harm. I know if if I were an officer I would rather know if someone is carrying. Then again I live in Wyoming where you do not have to have a permit in the state to carry. If I were an officer here, I would assume EVERYONE is packing.

^^^ X2,
I would too, and IMO, saying hey, you assumed right but it's cool, I got a permit/license just gives Mr leo doing my job and wanna go home a little peace of mind and not so much so as just stroking their ego.
honest open communication, in a slightly tense situation.

Kirk Keller
December 16, 2011, 06:39 AM
Once by local Raleigh PD, the other time by NC State Police. PD pullover was a non-event, as in "Thank you sir, just leave the gun in the glove box."

State Police wasn't so. Pulled over for expired registration, produced permit and license, informed the officer and was ordered to exit the vehicle, place my hands on the hood of the car while one trooper retrieved my handgun. The other trooper stood slightly behind me and off to the right with his hand on his gun until the other trooper secured my revolver from the glove box. When I got my gun back, it was covered with some oily black powder and needed to be cleaned. This all a block from my house.

PADefenseTrainer
December 16, 2011, 07:29 AM
Kirk, I've seen similar situations.

The problem is police officers are just people.

And while most people (and police officers) are reasonable, some are complete tools that I'd cross the street to avoid.

spacecoast
December 16, 2011, 09:05 AM
When I got my gun back, it was covered with some oily black powder and needed to be cleaned

Maybe looking for fingerprints?

Kirk Keller
December 16, 2011, 09:32 AM
No idea. Looked too course to be fingerprint powder. But it was everywhere.

wayneinFL
December 17, 2011, 09:35 PM
Also i don't like to make my way to vehicle and passenger is bent over digging I'n glove box (i have no idea what you're looking for). Better bet my hand is on my sidearm! Just wait until officer asks for info first.

Yeah, there have been several responses in the thread about having paperwork out before the cop gets there. I've never heard anyone tout this as a good practice.

I always keep my registration and insurance card in a pocket on the visor. I keep my hands in plain sight until the officer asks for paperwork, then I get it for him.

AK103K
December 17, 2011, 09:58 PM
I keep my hands in plain sight until the officer asks for paperwork, then I get it for him.
What do you think hes going to ask you for, one of your beers? :)

Its not that hard to have your paperwork handy. You know that they are going to ask for it anyway. If its in your wallet, its fast, one stop shopping.

And cops and traffic stops aside, to me, keeping your paperwork in the car itself is right up there with keeping your house coordinates in your GPS as "home". Not a real smart idea.

shootniron
December 17, 2011, 10:05 PM
keeping your paperwork in the car itself is right up there with keeping your house coordinates in your GPS as "home". Not a real smart idea

What is the problem?

MLeake
December 17, 2011, 10:12 PM
I think he means that, in the event of a break-in, any documents that have personal data, or that could be easily used to forge a false title or registration, could bite you.

Or leaving house keys in the car, or even the garage remote (it's not hard to open those, and find out the code; now we have an address, plus the code for the garage door opener, or a spare key.)

He has a point; this is why keeping the title in the car is a monumentally bad idea. For that matter, so is keeping spare house keys.

However, I am willing to run the risk with title and registration.

shootniron
December 17, 2011, 10:23 PM
Yeah, I can see the point about the GPS if I were one to leave house keys in my auto, but I keep my keys in my pocket without any ID on them. And, I only have insurance cards and registration cards in the vehicles, so I do not really see how these things can be of much use to anyone.

AK103K
December 18, 2011, 08:42 AM
Most people I know have their house keys on the same ring with their car keys, which is a bad idea.

I know none of us has "ever" left the car running and ran into the Quick Mart to get something, or something similar.

Add to that the garage door opener, the gps and/or all your paperwork in the glove box), and the mistakes start to add up.

Its bad enough they might get your car, but why give them the address to your house, and a means to get in? Its not like youre going to be there when they get there.

Skadoosh
December 18, 2011, 09:28 AM
Garage door security has drastically improved to include rolling code technology. "Code grabbing" has been a thing of the past for quite a while. A stolen remote can be disabled by using the "relearn" feature on virtually all garage door openers manufactured since 2003.

Sparks1957
December 18, 2011, 09:37 AM
I, for one, never leave my car running with the rest of my keys in it. That's crazy, and is asking for trouble.

MLeake
December 18, 2011, 10:08 AM
Skadoosh, you assume people have post-2003 door openers. Last ones I had were probably original issue withe the late 1980s construction house, and had 5 or 6 sliding pins that were each set forward or back.

Not exactly a cryptographic challenge... Not with the older stuff (that is still in some use.)

Edit: my truck has remote starting, for warming up on cold days or cooling on hot ones. But, the system kills the engine if somebody attempts to put the transmission in gear, and the remote start sequence is initiated by first pressing the door lock key.

Otherwise, I do not leave a running vehicle unattended, either.

Vermonter
December 18, 2011, 06:23 PM
I still think doing anything during a stop other than what is asked is foolish. An officer is aware that most people keep documents in the glove box. I gotta believe that moving prematurley is a bad idea.

Dragline45
December 18, 2011, 06:27 PM
Have been pulled over 3 times since I started carrying. Twice for speeding, once for failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Only one officer acknowledged that I had a firearm on me. He first asked what the LTC was for. Then asked if I had my firearm on me and where. Once informed he just told me to leave it where it is. Thankfully I came out of all three instances with only a warning. Living in Mass where most people don't/cant carry I was expecting to be hassled but apparently that was not the case.

I personally think there is no need to inform the officer without them asking. It pops up as a red flag when they run their plates, I am sure they just assume I have a firearm on me whether I do or not.

wayneinFL
December 18, 2011, 08:07 PM
What do you think hes going to ask you for, one of your beers?

Funny. I know exactly what he's going to ask for. But I'm not reaching for anything until I'm told. From what the cop sees, I could be shuffling around getting my papers out of the glovebox, or out of my wallet. Or I could be stashing drugs or a gun.

Its not that hard to have your paperwork handy. You know that they are going to ask for it anyway. If its in your wallet, its fast, one stop shopping.

That's an idea for someone who only has one vehicle. I'm not keeping the registration for my four vehicles, a company vehicle, a rental truck and a rental car in my wallet. Along with 3+ different insurance policies.

Besides I'm not reaching for anything until the cop asks me to do it, and even then I'm going to do it very slowly, keep my hands where he can see them, and let him know if I'm doing anything he might not expect.
Not gonna end up like Amadou Diallo.

I don't like nervous cops and I don't like guns pointed at me. Been there, done that- played Simon Says with two Okeechobee cops with guns pointed at me, both giving me conflicting commands at a traffic stop.

Why is it such a big deal to sit still until the cop is watching and is ready for you to do it? Are you in a hurry? Do you have someplace to go?

Hunter Rose
December 19, 2011, 04:09 AM
Maybe Wisconsin is different, but I have never been asked for registration or proof of insurance.

I'm usually pulling my wallet out as I manuver to the side of the road. License in hand, dome light on (after dark) and window down when he arrives at my vehicle.

Only been able to carry for a month. Should I get pulled over, my LTC will be in hand too...

jughead2
December 19, 2011, 04:41 AM
this old man just wishes tenn. officers would get over their "cocked and locked" phobia. 2 stops in 15 years and 3 different officers read me the riot act over it. they can tell me where to carry per state law BUT it aint none of their business how i carry per state law.:(

igousigloo
December 19, 2011, 08:47 PM
In Ohio we are required to inform, also if they run our plates it tells them if the owner has a ccl. I hit a deer Friday night and called the OSP. When the officer responded I handed him my drivers license and said that I have a CCL. He asked if I was carrying and I said yes. That is the last time it was mentioned in the whole encounter.

wayneinFL
December 21, 2011, 01:55 AM
this old man just wishes tenn. officers would get over their "cocked and locked" phobia. 2 stops in 15 years and 3 different officers read me the riot act over it. they can tell me where to carry per state law BUT it aint none of their business how i carry per state law.

When they tell you it's dangerous, you're supposed to say, "You're damned right it is." :p

Don't know how Tennessee is but most officers here have never carried a 1911. Last time I saw a police officer with a 1911, it was a Levy County deputy. I commented that it was good to see there was a department that still trusted their deputies to carry a 1911. He chuckled and said, "Let me tell you a story about that..." He was the chief firearms instructor. He was told he wasn't allowed to carry it- that it was against policy. He told them that he wrote the policy and was allowed to carry it.

Maybe Wisconsin is different, but I have never been asked for registration or proof of insurance.

Must be. Here they want license, registration, and proof of insurance. When cops wake you from a deep slumber on the side of the road and ask you for these things you naturally reach for them. That night in Okeechobee (kind of a hick town) I had one guy asking for the papers. I reached for my wallet and the other guy started screaming "Put your hands where I can see them!"

So I put my hands up above the roof of my car.

"License and registration!"

Reached for the wallet.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"License and registration!"

Reached for the wallet.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"I need to see your license and registration!"

"Guys, this isn't going to work. My license is in my wallet. Do you want to get it?"

"Step out away from the door and turn your back toward me. Get your wallet out slowly."

I got my wallet out and gave him my license. Then he asked for the registration and proof of insurance, so I reached back into the car to get my stuff out of the glovebox. "Put your hands where I can see them!"

So I put my hands up above the roof of my car.

"Get your registration!"

Reached for the glovebox.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"Your registration!"

Reached for the glovebox.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"Man, my papers are in my glovebox. Do you want to get them? Or do you want me to do it? I don't want to get shot tonight."

So he walked me around the car. I tried the door, and sure enough the door was locked. So I reached into my pocket for the keys.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up.

"Open the door!"

Reached for the keys.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up.

"Open the door!"

Reached for the keys.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up.

"Open the door!"

"Guys, guys, guys. Stop. We're doing it again. This ain't gonna work. The door's locked. You want to get my keys out of my pocket?"

"Alright, just turn towards me and get your keys out. Slowly."

So, I did so, opened the door, and he got my registration and insurance card out. He picked up a camping hatchet out of the floor, and told me that was why they were worried about me. It was something I always had in there, and they saw it when they stopped and to check me out on the side of the road. They apparently had been there for a while checking me out. I had slept through the whole thing until I startled awake with all the lights. When I saw the lights, I woke and jumped up, thinking I had fallen asleep driving and was about to get in a head on collision. It scared me, so I jumped up and grabbed the wheel, and slammed on the brake. When I realized I was parked, I got out to see what all the lights were for. I turned around and saw the blue lights, and said, "You guys scared the **** outta me!", and that's when all the fun started.

Anyway, we discussed it a little, and they had a good laugh over the whole thing, and told me I could continue sleeping. Too bad, I was awake by then.

Since then, I've seen videos in which cops have been killed at traffic stops, and understand why they're... uhh... overly cautious... sometimes. Since that experience, I am probably the most careful person you've ever seen at a traffic stop. :D Last time I was stopped was in GA, by a city cop on the interstate just inside the FL line. I had the lights on, hands on the wheel until he got to the car and asked from my license. "Okay. My wallet's in my left hip pocket. I'm going to reach over with my left hand to unbuckle my seat belt, then reach back to get my wallet." I don't leave ANY room for surprises.

wayneinFL
December 21, 2011, 01:57 AM
Now that I think about it, I wish I had the dash cam video. I'll bet it's hilarious. :p

Hunter Rose
December 21, 2011, 05:03 AM
You should have asked them if you could get a copy for entertainment purposes...

Mello2u
December 22, 2011, 12:03 AM
When I get pulled over for a traffic stop, I slow down and pull over to the right shoulder and get off the road in a safe manner. I open all the windows, turn off the engine, (if it is dark, I turn on the interior light), put both hands on the top of the steering wheel and move as little as possible. If I have passengers in the vehicle I tell them to put their hands on their thighs in plain sight and don't move or look around.

I learned in the law enforcement academy that this is what I wanted vehicle drivers to do.

farmerboy
December 22, 2011, 01:09 AM
Two more things that are helpful are if you get stopped try and find a well lit place and park plenty off roadway for some reason quite a bit will pass up all the well lit places and stop I'n the most darkest places possible. Some have even turned off the main road onto a side street and a mile away before stoping. That's a citation for sure and the other is beside the roadway, pull plenty off for your safety and the officers. For the ones who stop right on the yellow stripe, also a citation! That's when the officer just makes contact with passenger side and writes away. Again, attitude means Alot!

Ben Towe
December 23, 2011, 01:21 PM
I haven't been stopped while carrying yet, but I plan to inform. I also have my paperwork in hand by the time the officer gets to the window. I'm not worried about him seeing any movement in the vehicle due to the fact that every window in my truck is heavily tinted (3.7% limo tint on back, sides, and sun strip, 45% on the rest of the windshield.), and no one is going to see anything until I choose to allow it. As the officer approaches I generally roll down the windows and say hi. Courtesy goes a long way, carrying or not.

farmerboy
December 23, 2011, 02:32 PM
wayneinFL, haha funny story!!! Man its almost like them two were either just playing with you and being stupid or just a couple of wack jobs!!! But its still funny. It would be something to just watch again and laugh your butt off.

Nordeste
December 25, 2011, 02:32 PM
It's quite healthy to switch your interior lights one whenever an officer approaches your car or you're gonna go through an entrance check-point (military bases and the like) where personnel is on duty. They will be less inclined to use their torches to see what's going on inside the car. It's something I regularly do and appreciate when someone does it for me when I'm working. It a sign of respect and good will.

hangglider
December 31, 2011, 02:57 AM
I haven't been pulled over yet since getting CCWs (I have more than one to cover most of the east I travel through) but I would automatically inform I have a permit, whether or not I am presently carrying, and if so location and whether or not loaded.

Unless I'm mistaken, the CCW info is going to be accessible through an LEO background info check anyway, so not disclosing that could theoretically lead to increased suspicion and provide cause (whether you might think justifiable or not) for further "examination." (I am not a LEO). In general, I believe these guys have it pretty rough when it comes to firearms and most of their "firearm disclosures" are probably less courteous and full disclosure shows appreciation for what they do--required or not. But I'm not a libertarian type :)