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View Full Version : 870 police: help me choose sights and stock


checkmyswag
November 27, 2011, 08:51 PM
I like the 870p max. But its spendy,

Which stock is best? Any advantage im not seeing to the standard stock? Id like a pistol grip. Which is better the solid type or M4 type?

Sights: bead/rifle/ghost ring?

HD mostly. Occasional slug use.

If I get the 870p max it answers which stock and sights I get. Is the flashlight as worth it as I think it is?

Ridge_Runner_5
November 27, 2011, 09:13 PM
I have a Mesa Tactical Urbino stock on my 870. Bit longer than a youth stock, and an impressive recoil pad (can shoot trap all day and my shoulder will be just fine).

Also comes with an adjustable cheekrest that lets you line up with any optics you might have. Without the cheekrest, it puts my eye right on top of the receiver.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/870_0002.jpg

plouffedaddy
November 27, 2011, 09:33 PM
I have a Knox 6 position stock and I love it. The prices have been coming down during the last year; a quick amazon search will show a lot of options and reviews.

Shotgun693
November 27, 2011, 09:43 PM
OK, I'm an old Cop who's carried shotguns for my whole career. Every Cop I know who carried and shot a pistol grip shotgun would later have joint trouble in the wrist and elbow. I always used a regular full stock and never ever once had any trouble getting it in, around, over or through anything.

checkmyswag
November 27, 2011, 09:50 PM
Im mostly into semi-auto pistols. Looking for a rifle and a shotgun to round things out. Suppose I am guilty of looking at the most expensive 870p and equating that w what's best for me. Starting to wonder if I should just get a base synthetic one. I have never shot a pistol grip shotgun. Was advised against the type without the buttstock. Thought the combo was where its at?

TheKlawMan
November 27, 2011, 09:51 PM
What is worth the money depends on the use it is put to. IMO if you are using the gun for LE daily the additional cost isn't a consideration. If this if for HD, you may be going overboard depending on your budget. I think a basic 870 Express is plenty for HD. That or a Mossberg 500. I am just used to the 870 which that is what I have. Actually, the 7 shot model with the factory 2 inch mag extension, an 18.5" barrel, a bead sight, standard stock, and a LE Speed Load forend. Last December Remington had a $50 rebate on it and it went for $325. I think that fore end and ligth you are looking at costs nearly that.

checkmyswag
November 27, 2011, 10:45 PM
Shotgun693-

are you referring to the pistol grip only shotguns or the combination pistol grip/shoulder stock shotguns like Ridge_Runner_5 posted?

redrick
November 28, 2011, 04:58 PM
I like a 13" lop stock and the bead sight. If I shot slugs I might go with the rifle sights.

White Mamba
November 28, 2011, 10:13 PM
I'd check out the Remington 870 Express Tactical in A-TACS Camo. It already comes with a nice pistol grip stock. You can get it in black too if you don't like the camo.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/model-870-express-tactical-a-tacs-camo.aspx

Scattergun Bob
November 28, 2011, 10:46 PM
for my money the best stock value is Speedfeed IV or if you need a shorter lop IV-S are the standard by which all others are measured. As far as sights the quickest to the target are bead front sights, I like XS sight systems Big Dot Tritium Front Beads, a wonderful sight for old eyes.

Good Luck and Be Safe

ClydeFrog
December 2, 2011, 12:31 AM
For a home defense/LE duty type 870 12ga, I'd check out www.vang-comp.com www.wilsoncombat.com www.blackhawk.com www.natchezss.com www.deltaforce.com .
A SureFire fore-end is a good add-on, www.Surefire.com . The Knoxx II type stock is worth the $ too, IMO.
I'd get an extended mag over a Side-Saddle but many gunners(like Texas Ranger Cordell Walker, www.imfdb.org ) like it.
For easy cleaning & to protect your "room broom" you may want to get a Black T or www.Bearcoat.com treatment. Robar's NP3+ is great too but not cheap for a 870 12ga shotgun.
Clyde

madcratebuilder
December 2, 2011, 07:35 AM
OK, I'm an old Cop who's carried shotguns for my whole career. Every Cop I know who carried and shot a pistol grip shotgun would later have joint trouble in the wrist and elbow. I always used a regular full stock and never ever once had any trouble getting it in, around, over or through anything.

This old civilian agrees with the old cop. I've used the Knoxx stock (recoil reducing) for several years, yes it works with slugs but it has a different feel to it. I have a Speedfeed II set I'm going to install to get away from the pistol grip.

I'm taking the sidesaddle off and the light. Less is more and getting the weight down makes it much easier to maneuver. I'm even considering removing the tube extension, getting back to basics.

StuntManMike
December 2, 2011, 09:47 PM
Speedfeed IV-S or Mesa Urbino for the stock (get a Vang Comp Big Dome safety to go with it)

XS Big Dot for the sight



I put pistol grip full stocks (IV-S or similar) on most of my shotguns a few years ago after I discovered how much easier they make recoil management, reloading with the muzzle on target, and follow up shots. The are also a huge advantage when "short sticking" as your wrist is not at such a odd angle.

Recently I decided to give a conventional stock non-pistol gripped stock another try. It only took about 20 rounds to remind me how grossly inferior it is for a "social gun". I took it off and put a proper pistol gripped full stock back on right away.

plouffedaddy
December 3, 2011, 07:38 AM
Well this former cop and current soldier disagrees :D I've always had pistol grips on my shotguns and haven't ever had any medical issues to to frequent practice/training with them.

I find them easier to maneuver with the pistol grip stocks and fore ends. A basic set up will absolutely get the job done though. It's just a matter of preference and training.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG0583.jpg

hogdogs
December 3, 2011, 10:50 AM
Most holds and firing positions are attained with a traditional stock...

More retention capability with a traditional stock...

Plenty of intuitive and instinctive accuracy with shot or slugs for accurately putting the right load on the right target within reasonable range with just a bead or none at all...

YMMV
Brent

redstategunnut
December 3, 2011, 11:03 AM
Pistol grips on shotguns are pointless and in most cases actually interfere with either the safety or the slide release or both. Try manipulating the slide release and safety without breaking your grip on the pistol grip. Good luck.

Get a standard stock. Collapsible stocks, recoil reducing stocks, all that stuff is like the latest fishing lure: it catches more fishermen than fish.

Unless you are going to run primarily slugs, there really isn't much point in anything other than a bead sight. Again, this is the new fishing lure phenomenon.

Your money is far better spent - and needed - on a fore end light if you plan to make this your HD weapon. A Surefire fore end light will cost more than either an 870 or 500, but in my opinion you must have a light on any gun you are going to use for HD.

You didn't ask, but I'll offer this advice, too: buy a single point sling. Operating a pump gun with a two point sling gets tricky. Tricky is bad.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m381/danamclendon/d449d56f.jpg

StuntManMike
December 3, 2011, 12:49 PM
Pistol grips on shotguns are pointless and in most cases actually interfere with either the safety or the slide release or both. Try manipulating the slide release and safety without breaking your grip on the pistol grip.

I read this and knew you had a Mossberg before I even scrolled down to see the picture.

With a 870 (which the OP has) the opposite is true for the safety and the slide release is a wash due to its location.

redstategunnut
December 4, 2011, 04:21 PM
I read this and knew you had a Mossberg before I even scrolled down to see the picture.

With a 870 (which the OP has) the opposite is true for the safety and the slide release is a wash due to its location.

The OP doesn't have an 870, yet. To his inquiry I have suggested that he is buying a bunch of stuff he doesn't need if he buys the gun about which he asked.

I have an 870, too. The point remains, pistol grips on shotguns are pointless.

StuntManMike
December 4, 2011, 06:22 PM
I will conceed that I misread the OP and thought that he had an 870.

However, pistol grip full stocks are absolutely not worthless for an 870 owner for the reasons I mentioned in the first post. They are a huge advantage.

ClydeFrog
December 4, 2011, 11:35 PM
The pic of P-Daddy's 12ga shotgun is very slick, ;) .
I disagree with the - remarks about shotgun pistol grips.
There are some uses & merit for them under limited conditions.
To my understanding, the LAPD's elite SIS detectives use 12ga shotguns with Surefire fore-ends & pistol grips.
I read that the average length of service for a SIS member is 15 years(with an outstanding record) before going into the unit & the marksmanship/training standards are very high.

hogdogs
December 5, 2011, 02:44 AM
To my understanding, the LAPD's elite SIS detectives use 12ga shotguns with Surefire fore-ends & pistol grips.
They also wear BDU's to work...

The civilian police forces are trying to distance them selves from other civilians by playing dress up in black GI Joe clothes... They prefer to associate their job with that of a military force operating during wartime in a warzone rather than a publically funded security team...

I don't care one lick what cops use during OFFENSIVE assault... we are talking HOME DEFENSE!!!
Not even apples and oranges...
More like the difference in fruits and meats...

Brent

redstategunnut
December 5, 2011, 08:30 AM
To my understanding, the LAPD's elite SIS detectives use 12ga shotguns with Surefire fore-ends & pistol grips.

You have assumed that the LAPD SIS gets to use what they want or gets to use the "best" gear rather than what a bureaucrat chose or because the bid came in the cheapest. It may be that each and every detective wanted a pistol grip, but it might have nothing whatsoever to do with their choice. I'll bet you we could find many, many more cops with standard stocks - and that, too, wouldn't mean very much.

Pistol grips are a choice, I find them more trouble than they are worth. They tangle in the sling, on a Mossberg they are undeniably useless, and they often travel hand in hand with the equally tacticool and useless adjustable stocks favored by mall ninjas (figure out what LOP you need and buy that stock). In my experience, a pistol grip on a shotgun slows down the mount and cheek weld, and thus the first shot, so I think they are more for "show" than "go." I feel the same way about red dot sights on a shotgun; it's a shotgun, friends, if you can't put rounds on target in shotgun range without a red dot sight, you don't need a red dot sight, you need practice. Don't even get me started on the "just as good as an Aimpoint" red dot sights.....

Worst of all is the vertical fore grip on a pump shotgun. Tell me how that improves anything for anyone. It's just more Tapco crap that someone will buy and stick on their gun without any concept of whether or how it enhances the utility of the gun.

To all the people who just got offended, it's an opinion, nothing more. I like Thai food, the color blue, brunettes, and I hate cauliflower. Don't get bent if you disagree, especially if your pistol grip adjustable stock just as good as an Aimpoint red dot sight vertical fore grip Tapco catalog shotgun works for you.

Dave McC
December 8, 2011, 10:52 AM
Guys....

The standard stock has about 200 years of R&D behind it. Nothing else yet made can direct the shot as well and in more comfort.

I've tried a fair number of the adjustable stocks on shotguns and rifles. When used with a lightly recoiling load, they're OK, though I'm not quite as fast. When used with anything over 5.56mm, they're a handicap,IMO.

Get a standard stock, get it fitting you like your favorite jeans, and shoot plenty.

Oh,yes. Use the lightest loads you can for the mission. There's no Minimum Pain Requirement.....

StuntManMike
December 8, 2011, 02:52 PM
I seem to be noticing a trend where people who have spent their lives shooting trap and bird hunting can never get used to a pistol grip stock. Perhaps it is because a pistol grip stock does not lend it self to those activities very well.


I have also noticed that people who come from a AR15 background seem to be far more appreciative of the advantages of a pistol grip stock for the kind of shooting likely to be done with an 870 POLICE.

checkmyswag
December 8, 2011, 10:07 PM
I'm usually not into whizbang stuff, but the Specops Knoxx stock seems like a great idea and overall has good reviews. No, I'm not hyper sensitive to recoil, but would like a very light recoil for others in my family.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SpecOps-Adjustable-Shotgun-Stock,1158,1447.htm

Found a Wilson Combat 870 with this stock. Might be the way to go...although handling an 870 express at Academy tonight for $270 got me thinking the other direction!

TheKlawMan
December 8, 2011, 10:15 PM
If stuntmanmike only had a clue about the people he thinks are part of a trend.

StuntManMike
December 9, 2011, 08:55 AM
If stuntmanmike only had a clue about the people he thinks are part of a trend.


I posted something which I have observed that is based on the prior postings that many people have made about themselves and their background. My observations are not limited to people in this thread nor do they include all of the people in this thread.


If you like a traditional stock then fine. However, you are the clueless one if you think you know what I have or haven't observed.

Spats McGee
December 9, 2011, 09:40 AM
Which stock is best? Any advantage im not seeing to the standard stock? Id like a pistol grip. Which is better the solid type or M4 type?
Standard stocks and pistol grip stocks work just fine. You need to get out and shoot guns with each to see what you like. With that said, I do not like pistol grips (w/o the stock). As for brand, I'm partial to Choate stocks. To be honest, I've never tried the other brands, though.

Sights: bead/rifle/ghost ring?
First, my caveat: I'm not a highly trained operator/expert/retired LEO. With that said, for sights, I like those little magnetic high visibility sights, like these: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/16701-1.html. If you've got a vent rib on the barrel, you just pop them on, and they stay on pretty well. They won't help you when it's so dark that you really need a flashlight, but then again, you shouldn't be shooting targets that you can't see. OTOH, in low-light situtations, like dusk or dawn, they're a whole lot more visible than the standard bead sight.

Dave McC
December 9, 2011, 03:37 PM
Mike, if that was directed at me, I've plenty of experience with stuff having separate PGs.

870s with folders. Both factory and early Choates.

M 16/AR15s.

At least two of my hunting rifles and a fighting rifle had them.

A 760 in 30-06,a similar 742 in the same caliber and a much tweaked SKS, to be specific. AND, I plan on putting together an AR soon. It will have one.

The stock typically found on shotguns, for most folks and when it fits, gives the best recoil protection and fastest recovery,IMO.

The best tool for the job. On a shotgun, that's the traditional stock.

However, if the other style works well for you, and you're well used to it, go ahead on.

hogdogs
December 9, 2011, 05:15 PM
Stunt, I have never been on a formal bird hunt or dirt dove shoot...

And I am a staunch supporter of traditional stock configuration.

I have offered to host folks who wish to spend a couple days in some gorgeous country shootin' guns, shootin' the bull and practicing a few drills.

The ability the average guy already has with a traditional gun is often far better than a guy trained in PGO or detached pistol grip (ar/ak sorts) use in some of the less ideal conditions or shooting positions... The speed from one mount to another hold is always faster for me while remaining lethally accurate with every shot.

And I cannot stress enought, the retention potential of the traditional gun over any other especially the pgo guns...

And never underestimate your opponents ability or skills. In some of my more heated informal drills, I prided my ability to turn a short rifle or shotgun onto the person holding it with a quickness.

In some of these settings, physical contact was not limited and we often ended up with black eyes, fat lips, goose eggs on the face and mouses (not the little plural rodents but them flesh knots) on the eye.

My gun was never taken from me with traditional stock unless the guy put me down and used his foot on my chest or throat to leverage it from my grip.

I often had it turned under my chin or at CoM if I tried the PGO or DPG stock installed.

Argue all you want but most who have worked severe duty drills prefer the traditional shape as much as clay champs and dove assassins.

Brent

checkmyswag
December 9, 2011, 06:17 PM
Decided against the police model. Too much $.

Now planning on getting a cheap 870 and adding the minimum I need.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471206

hogdogs
December 9, 2011, 06:45 PM
minimum? I had a single shot with a pair of appropriate size "one hole conduit straps" clamping a first generation D cell maglight under it when I was a little kid night shootin' yotes at the chicken coops... One shot one kill... and the bulb often blew upon discharge so no real need for too many rounds in a mag tube...:o

Brent

shortwave
December 9, 2011, 06:50 PM
My pick is a traditional stock with either a Hi Viz bead or no sight.
IMO, ghost ring sites just aren't needed at most HD distances and aren't applicable in low light conditions.

TheKlawMan
December 9, 2011, 08:56 PM
I was never issued the M-16 but did my tour with an M-14, however I think there is a huge dif in shooting a lightweight bullet through an AR15 and a heavy 12 gauge load. I suppose the retired LEO that posted about the wrist problems caused by pistol grips on 12 gauges didn't know what he was talking about. Still, I suspect the pistol grip is fine for some applications. I just don't know of any. As for not knowing what stuntmanmike knows, that is one cross I don't have to bear.