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hogdogs
November 23, 2011, 09:00 AM
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f48/why-you-kill-coyotes-102774/

Rather than move the pics... Here is the link to a thread in a local huntin' fishin forum...

RIGHT FINE 10 POINT IN VELVET. The yotes work him down right on a game cam.

Why is there not massive consumption evident? Thrill kill???

Brent

tahunua001
November 23, 2011, 10:53 AM
now that's surprising. most of our western coyotes are way too timid to take down a deer by themselves. even in packs they tend to stick to domesticated animals like dogs and sheep... it's a shame though...that was a beautiful buck

aarondhgraham
November 23, 2011, 11:17 AM
Not really any different than us putting a bullet in them,,,
In fact it's more legitimate, because they don't have thumbs.

They hunt exactly like humans did,,,
Before we developed our projectile weapons.

We hunted 'em in a pack,,,
Rushing out with our sharp sticks,,,
Looking only for the weak ones in the herd.

Maybe that's why coyotes invoke so much hatred from humans,,,
They are exactly like we are in their sneakiness and stealth.

C'mon people,,,
Stop hating a natural being,,,
They are just trying to survive exactly like we did.

Aarond

rantingredneck
November 23, 2011, 11:34 AM
now that's surprising. most of our western coyotes are way too timid to take down a deer by themselves. even in packs they tend to stick to domesticated animals like dogs and sheep... it's a shame though...that was a beautiful buck


What I've heard (and take that for what it's worth) is that the southeastern coyotes actually migrated from the NE and Canada where they've been interbreeding with grey wolves. Makes for a bit larger and bolder breed.........

603Country
November 23, 2011, 12:06 PM
I haven't seen a coyote yet that I considered to be big. If I find one larger than usual, I'll pick it up and guesstimate the weight, but maybe 25 or 30 pounds is the biggest yet. And...to me Coyotes are the prime example of "ground shrinkage". They look so big in the scope and so small on the ground when you walk over to them. Still, they will team up to tire out and take down a deer, and it isn't always the smallest and weakest deer that they pursue.

I was researching wolves (internet) in Texas last year and found that they are thought to be extinct in Texas since the early to mid 70's, but that there is evidence that there was some crossbreeding between wolves and coyotes in east Texas. The info didn't give any weight estimates of the crossbred varieties. Some of my country neighbors insist that there are still wolves around, but I don't believe it. I suggest to them the ground shrinkage theory, and what they think are wolves are just coyotes, but they don't go for it.

Wild Bill Bucks
November 23, 2011, 12:22 PM
I think, by the way hogdogs puts his questions marks, that he and I both want to throw a BS flag on this. My problem with it, is there are only 2 yotes present at the feeding. I have watched a healthy deer out run yotes so bad, that they will stop and look at each other wondering where the deer went.
The other part is, wasn't it nice of them to stop right in front of a game camera to play out the killing? I see no feeder or anything else to keep them there for hours.

I have no doubt, that this deer was killed by the yotes, but I'll bet this deer is inside of a closed in area, with no escape, and the yotes found a way under the fence, and ran this deer until he was so tired, he decided to fight. If this was a healthy buck, two yotes would not have caught him in open country.
There is also not much eaten. Yotes don't thrill kill, and generally will chew off a leg and drag it somewhere else to eat. This deer could have been sick or wounded when the yotes found him also.

Anyone else wonder about this or am I out here all by myself?:confused:

rantingredneck
November 23, 2011, 12:33 PM
Keep in mind that the fastest land animal in North America over distance is the coyote. The deer can outsprint it, but they'll tire much quicker than the coyote. Look at the pics again and look at the deer's mouth. He's had it. He's been run hard for a good long way. Look at the first few pictures too. He's already bloody. I'm thinking he was already bitten several times before he ended up on candid camera.

I'm not discounting the possibility that this may have happened in an enclosed area where the deer couldn't escape, but......it's also highly possible that this attack started somewhere else entirely and what we are seeing is the tragic end. Yotes can and will run an animal to ground. Why they didn't eat more, I don't know..........a good question there...........

Daryl
November 23, 2011, 01:50 PM
Coyotes do not always take the weak. Coyotes are opportunists that must eat full time. They WILL usually select the easiest prey, which translates to the weak, but in it's absence, they still have to eat.

Coyotes have been killing prey animials as long as they've existed. You can't honestly begrudge them a meal, can you? It's about as natural as it gets. Them eating a deer is better than them eating a beef, or a lamb, and they're gonna eat.

Hunters kill a few here and there, but few have the time an energy to even attempt eradicating the coyote. You can't change them (they're non-PC, you know), so get used to them.

I've lived in some of the best coyote country this land has to offer, and have lived here my entire life. They haven't wiped out the deer yet, and wont. Poachers are a far worse threat to our deer's future.

Daryl

ripnbst
November 23, 2011, 02:21 PM
Maybe a deer can outrun a coyote in open country but look at the back drop, that ain't open country. It's heavily wooded. That buck with its big rack and long strides is handicapped in an area that it has to weave trees constantly. The coyote actually would have the upper hand in that environment. Shorter gait means they are more maneuverable.

I think it's possible.

tahunua001
November 23, 2011, 03:07 PM
I dont see any wolf like feature with these coyotes and they look fairly similar in size to the average NE coyotes but something about the shape of the heads and location of the ears...they look more dog-like than any coyotes I've ever seen.

you can call BS all you want but out on the Nez Perce reservation I have seen a few occasions were domestic dogs and coyotes are running in the same pack. crossbreeding would be just easy as with wolves.

I didn't mean it was a shame that they killed the buck, they have as much right as humans...I meant that it was a shame that they killed it instead of me :D

Archer 9505
November 23, 2011, 03:19 PM
A couple of years ago I had a pair of yearlings that persistently hung around one of my treastands. On more than one occasion one or the other or both would be beaded with in feet of my stand. More than once I had to stand off and let them leave the area before I could get up into my stand with out spooking them and by proxy any other whitetails in the area. I grew very fond of watching them. That winter I found two coyote killed yearlings in the same are. I am pretty sure they were the same.

It was sad, but I remind myself that nature is not a Disney Movie. Coyotes have to eat too.

POST SCRIPT:
Anyone else wonder about this or am I out here all by myself?
Now that you mention it Wild Bill

Scorch
November 23, 2011, 03:42 PM
Kind of like leaving a pizza on the living room table in a house full of teenagers: you can't blame them, they need to eat. Nice buck, they took him down like they do cattle: one works the head to keep the animal distracted, while another grabs it by the sphincter and pulls the rectum out, then they take the animals down as they weaken due to hemorraging. It can take hours for the prey to die. Notice that the coyotes didn't wait for it to die before diving in for dinner.

And as far as seeking out the weak, BS. They will try to take any animal they think they can surprise and overwhelm. Sometimes that's the weak, sometimes not.

rickyrick
November 24, 2011, 10:13 AM
That's interesting, this must have been at the end or the deer was enclosed as the others have said. I baby figure out why the deer lingered.on front of the camera for two hours.

The lighter coyote appears to be fatigued and subordinate to the darker one.

Daryl
November 24, 2011, 10:36 AM
I dont see any wolf like feature with these coyotes and they look fairly similar in size to the average NE coyotes but something about the shape of the heads and location of the ears...they look more dog-like than any coyotes I've ever seen.

you can call BS all you want but out on the Nez Perce reservation I have seen a few occasions were domestic dogs and coyotes are running in the same pack. crossbreeding would be just easy as with wolves.

I didn't mean it was a shame that they killed the buck, they have as much right as humans...I meant that it was a shame that they killed it instead of me

Well, I don't claim to be the end-all opinion on coyotes. I've seen similar claims before, just never seen it myself.

And considering the fact that I've killed maybe 1500-2000 coyotes in the last 35 years, most of them in fairly close proximity to rural areas with dogs, one would think I'd have seen a coyote or two showing some dog-like characteristics.

But I haven't, which leads me to believe that cross breeding of dogs and coyotes in the wild is a pretty rare event.

But then our coyotes don't usually pack up, instead being either loners or small family groups, so what do I know? Just 'cause there's only two in the video doesn't mean there isn't an amorous poodle out in the brush just waiting his chance. Never can tell about such things.

Daryl

Art Eatman
November 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
It's not unknown for coyotes to gang up on a deer and relay it to exhaustion. Deer tend to do a big circle, and coyotes have been seen to cut across the circle. One chases, the other takes a breather. Deer loses.

Like Daryl said, coyotes are opportunists. Could be that the buck was fatigued from fighting another buck, prior to Ol' Wily and friend showing up.

hogdogs
November 24, 2011, 11:21 AM
Post #31 in the linked thread has a link to the entire series of game cam pics. This isn't a single yote. There is always behind him workin' him down.

The one in front is causing intense stress further removing any ability of the deer to rest and regain energy while the yotes are expending very little real energy.

Brent

rickyrick
November 24, 2011, 12:02 PM
Yes after looking at the first 20 pictures or so it is obvious that the deer had no real chance for escape. And they kept him surrounded.

I didn't view the complete series but its easy to understand with more than the first set I saw at the beginning of the thread.

shortwave
November 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
It's not unknown for coyotes to gang up on a deer and relay it to exhaustion

Not only "not unknown" but very common. Especially when food sources of easier prey dries up for them.

treg
November 24, 2011, 10:59 PM
Like Daryl said, coyotes are opportunists. Could be that the buck was fatigued from fighting another buck, prior to Ol' Wily and friend showing up.

Or sick, or injured, or wounded - lots of possibilities. Just because he has a nice rack doesn't make him healthy.

Double Naught Spy
November 25, 2011, 12:27 AM
'Yotes... Only seek out the weak?

Not exactly. They may go for the weakest, slowest, etc. animal available and relative to their hunger.

Why is there not massive consumption evident? Thrill kill???
There are only 2 coyotes present. They may have gotten their fill before destroying too much of the carcass. If you look at the image sequence, you will see that the coyotes spent a lot of time gutting the deer and tearing out flesh from the belly area. They could have removed a lot of flesh from that area and it not be very evident because that side of the carcass is mostly obscured from view. I didn't go through the entire sequence, but it looks like the coyotes spent at least 3 hours working the deer's gut area.

Keep in mind that the fastest land animal in North America over distance is the coyote.

Some of the fastest land animals over distance in North America include bison, caribou, pronghorn, and wolves.

The other part is, wasn't it nice of them to stop right in front of a game camera to play out the killing? I see no feeder or anything else to keep them there for hours.

Sometimes, things do happen right in front of game cameras. I have a sequence of 45 minutes of bucks fighting taken by a game camera that was simply watching a small open area of a trail (no feeder present).

rickyrick
November 25, 2011, 08:17 AM
We have had a severe drought and the hottest summer average temperature this year..... news reports of entire prarie dog colonies being killed off from it.

What effect will this have on coyote behavior, I usually consider them to be a minor threat mostly small animals and scavenging and such...usually just a threat to calves born in the winter.

I can tell that coyote population here is down somewhat just by listening to them at night when I am waiting for pigs.

Can they be expected to attack more domestic animals due to the harsh year?

Double Naught Spy
November 25, 2011, 08:54 AM
Can they be expected to attack more domestic animals due to the harsh year?

Maybe. At least here in Texas, the two preceding years have produced large amounts of mast and so several of the animal populations grew as a result of the amount of food available. So deer will be going from having plenty of food for a large population to having too little as the mast crop this year was negatively affected by the drought. So first the coyotes are going to have a bounty of malnourished and undersized deer available to them.

jason_iowa
November 25, 2011, 01:57 PM
I have seen 70lb yotes around here and heard of bigger. I mostly see them scavenge but I would guess a few could take a big buck. Buck may have been struck by a car or injured in some fashion. While I would not discount the possibility but I would think it unlikely for a pair to take down a fully grown buck. They can be quite aggressive and predators don't like food that is likely to injure them. A predator with one eye or half a jaw is a dead predator.

JerryM
November 25, 2011, 02:48 PM
I once found the remains of a large buck, and did not realize that coyotes could pull a full grown healthy buck down. However, I talked to the area game department head and he said it was not uncommon.

Subsequently as I have seen a pack of dogs in Africa pull down large animals, larger than deer and the dogs are no larger than coyotes, I realize that they can tire the animal down enough to kill it.

Jerry

"JJ"
November 29, 2011, 04:58 PM
I have seen this posted on another forum and it was discussed in a similar fashion.
At first, I also questioned why the buck stayed by the camera. After thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that there is some type of mineral or attractant in front of the camera.

If you watch the complete slide show you will notice several things.

1) The deer comes in head first to the camera several times with its tongue hanging out! A sign that this chase DIDN'T just began.
2) When the deer first comes in view it is already injured on the hind quarters! Another sign of a longer chase.
3) There deer puts its nose to the ground in the same place several times. Indicating there is some type of bait/lure it believes it can get some energy from.
4) Like somebody has already mentioned, the two coyotes spend quite a bit of time on the other side of the deer eating. Two coyotes are not going to consume a whole deer by themselves! They got their fill and left!

It definitely can be a high fence area, no doubt. But this can happen in a non-fenced area as well.

but maybe 25 or 30 pounds is the biggest yet
I have personally killed several coyotes well over 30 pounds!
While 40-50 pounds is not common, but its not unheard of either.
Just sayin!

Major Dave (retired)
November 29, 2011, 09:51 PM
be shown this sequence depicting how "Mother Nature" ends the lives of Her children. Then emphasize how much more merciful, quick, and relatively painless death by gunshot is.

Hunters should never apologize for a quick, clean kill.

Those deer that aren't killed by predators eventually become diseased, or wear out their teeth, or die of brain parasites, etc.,

I'm just saying.