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oneshotOG
November 17, 2011, 11:37 AM
So I've been looking for a new bolt action within a reasonable budget. I have already been talked out of the Remington 770. See I am looking for a quite accurate rifle I can shoot over 500 yards. Do you guys think the 700 is a good choice? Also, I've researched different calibres for long range and it seems the best choiceis the .308 Rem. Id appreciate any feedback on if you guys agree or if you think another rifle may be a better choice.

Toney
November 17, 2011, 12:39 PM
I have a older adl 700 in 270, swapped it off once but i got it back!!! I've owned two 710s they were alright but there not 700s.
Both my 700s will shoot moa but so will my savage 200 but when i get a trigger for it i might have well bought a remmi.
I don't know much about the newer sps rifles but i'm a big remmi fan.

oneshotOG
November 17, 2011, 01:32 PM
Ya, same here. Alright man, thanks for the help! I've never owned a 700 before, but I really think it'll be worth the few hundred I'm paying for it. People really seem to love 700s! Also, .308 is what alot of competition shooters use, so I think this thing is gonna have some great range.

treefarmernc
November 17, 2011, 02:14 PM
I’ll give my vote for the Remington 700 in .308. Will this be for hunting or target?

hermannr
November 17, 2011, 02:27 PM
I have a Rem 700BDL (.264 Win Mag) I purchased new in 1964. Back in the 60's when I shot a lot of rifle and very little pistol, and did my own reloading; it would do 1/2 MOA consistantly, occationally better. If I did worse, it was me, or I goofed with a load. 142 gr Sierra Matchking bullets were exceptionally good in my rifle.

I just use it for hunting now as most of my target shooting now is mostly .22 pistol and occationally 9mm pistol.

I personally think the balistics of a 6.5mm is better than any .308 bullet.

oneshotOG
November 17, 2011, 06:08 PM
This will be almost only a target gun, since I live in Ohio and can't hunt anything with it. But as I went in too take another look at the 700, the gun clerk pretty much convinced me the savage 111 was a better deal for the money and shot just as well. What do you guys think? .308 Remington 700 or .308 savage 111? Pros and cons?

jmr40
November 17, 2011, 07:24 PM
For the average Joe the 308 is probably the best route to go overall. Especially at 500 yards or less. You can get good ammo over the counter without reloading and if you do start reloading the 308 is one of the easiest rounds to load for.

For serious work at longer ranges the 308 is starting to be borderline and there are probably better choices.

The Remington 700 is never a bad choice. I chose the FN Patrol rifle to use for this. The Savage rifles are quite popular, but would be my personal 3rd choice.

SadistAssassin
November 17, 2011, 09:08 PM
Yeah I think that the .308 might not be the right choice for shooting over 500meters. Even military snipers top out the .308 at 800 meters. If you want to send a .300 caliber bullet out past 500 accurately and effectively, then look at a 300wsm or 300mag. Both are available on the 700

SadistAssassin
November 17, 2011, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE="SadistAssassin"]Yeah I think that the .308 might not be the right choice for shooting over 500meters. Even military snipers top out the .308 at 800 meters. If you want to send a .300 caliber bullet out past 500 accurately and effectively, then look at a 300wsm or 300mag. Both are available on the 700. If you are into reloading a 30.06 would be ideal . They can be be loaded hot or dumbed down to Sub .308 levels.

jmr40
November 17, 2011, 09:37 PM
The 308 can be loaded to within 50-100 fps of the 30-06 with most bullet weights. If you are into custom rifles with 28-30" barrels and hot-rodding handloads you can get a little more performance in a 30-06.

Not a bad choice, but to get any real gains it is not something for a casual shooter. Your original idea was better. It is easy to get 400-500 fps more performance with one of the magnum rounds over a 308. But once again, not worth the trouble or expense at 500 yards.

oneshotOG
November 17, 2011, 10:07 PM
Ok, so you guys think I should get the 300 win mag if I'm shooting past 500 yards? Cause I've heard .308 shoots a little flatter and this gun has a 26 inch barrel for a pretty high muzzle velocity. If I do get the .300 mag, what grain would fly best at that range?

tobnpr
November 17, 2011, 10:18 PM
.260 Remington
6.5 Creedmore
7mm-08

The .308 is still a good choice...

.300 wm is unnecessary for punching paper at 1000.

oneshotOG
November 17, 2011, 10:52 PM
Once again guys, thanks for all the help. I'm still learning here, I'm only 15 haha, but one last question.just guessing, but I'm pretty sure the Win mags are gonna be a little more on the expensive side. How much would a decent pack of 20 rounds of 300 win mags cost?

tobnpr
November 18, 2011, 08:13 AM
If you needed the additional kinetic energy to take game at long range I would concur with the .300 WM. You don't...
Because the US Military has adopted the caliber for some of it's longer range tactical weapons, a lot of guys feel the need to jump on the .300 WM bandwagon...

With 50% more felt recoil than the .308, I doubt you'd find many shooters that would enjoy sending 100 rounds off the bench in a day's shooting.

I just don't think it's the right choice for your intended purpose.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

oneshotOG
November 18, 2011, 09:23 AM
Gootcha. Alright, well you guys have been very helpful. Since I'm just punching paper, I think I'll stick with the .308. Wish I had enough for a .338 Lapua mag! Those are sick

Legionnaire
November 18, 2011, 10:28 AM
Since you are just punching paper, no need for the .308. I like the .308 fine; it's my preferred hunting round. And I have an accurized 700 VSSF in .308 with which I have shot steel out to 900 yards with 175 grain Federal match ammo.

But just to punch paper you don't need the terminal ballistics (or the recoil) of a .30 caliber round. I'd opt for the .260 Remington or 7mm08. They are based on the same case but have higher ballistic coefficients than the .308 when using heavy low drag bullets.

The one advantage of the .308 over the two aforementioned rounds is that it is more commonly available, and may be had more cheaply in bulk, as long as you're not buying match grade ammo. You can't go wrong with a good .308. But you can do better.

As far as rifle is concerned, Savages are considered to be among some of the best "bang for the buck," with outstanding out-of-the-box accuracy. Personally, I don't like the accutrigger, much preferring a well-tuned Remington factory trigger or one of the easily-installed replacements. I think the older Remington 700s have more "class" than the Savages, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Years ago I'd have said "Remington 700, no question" because of quality and the availability of replacement and custom parts. But Remington's quality seems to have slipped in recent years, and more and more aftermarket parts are becoming available for the Savages. You really ought to handle both and decide which one you like better.

Saltydog235
November 18, 2011, 10:44 AM
Can't comment on the 700 other than its a good gun. I just purchased a SPS Varmint in 7mm08 and have an '06 but that's it on Remington bolt guns for me.

As to caliber, at 15 years of age, you definitley do not need the recoil of the .300WM unless you are built like a tank. The only thing that recoil is going to do for a new(er) shooter is to help you develop bad habits and a flinch. Get the .308 or something in that family and learn to shoot it well. It'll do anything you need it to do in the ranges you want and will concievably shoot.

Heck get a .243 or 7mm08, both fine rounds with very mild recoil.

Scout
November 18, 2011, 11:03 AM
I'm with Saltydog...get a .243 and you'll love it.

thinkingman
November 18, 2011, 01:07 PM
Most R700's need a fair amount of work the really get long range accuracy.
I'd look at Savage, Tikka/Sako or FN.

k511
November 18, 2011, 11:55 PM
Remington 700 in .308......love it!!! heres mine, cant say enough good things:D i typically shoot between the 400-700 yard mark...

Palmetto-Pride
November 19, 2011, 08:49 AM
Most R700's need a fair amount of work the really get long range accuracy.
I'd look at Savage, Tikka/Sako or FN.

Absolute BS!

Every 700 I have or had would shoot MOA or under. I currently have a .270 ADL I bought from Wal-Mart no mods other than putting a Nikon Prostaff scope on it and using premium ammo and I have gotten 3/4" groups out of it if I do my part.

I also have a 700SPS .308 Varmint that shoots close to 1/2" groups with Match ammo.

I also have T/C Ikon that I love and some other rifles by other makers that I love so I am not Remmy fan boy, but I will defend them when I see total BS put out there.......:eek:

kaylorinhi
November 19, 2011, 03:34 PM
My bone stock 700SPS with a Bushnell 3200 Elite Tactical on it will print 3/4 all day and 1/2, occasionaly with Hornady 165 and FCC match 168's. Nothing against the Savage or others but I just dont have enough experience to rate them effectively.

4runnerman
November 19, 2011, 03:48 PM
I would also pass on the remmy and go for the Savage. Out shoot a remmy in a heartbeat with no work needed. Don't want to trash remmy,s but lets face it guys when it comes to accuracy you can't beat Savage. Stock Savages off the shelf win more comp shooting events than any other brand out there and thats just a fact. Savage stocks are not very good,but that is a very cheap up grade to switch. One post said something about the accutrigger he did not like?. Whats not to like about a trigger you can set to any pressure you want?. I have shot for over 40 years now and just 2 years ago got a Savage,now i own 3 and if Savage don't make it--I don't want it. Only other rifle i would look at would be a tika. But that my personnel opinion too. every one has one

BusGunner007
November 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
Do it right! :D

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltrtws.htm

http://www.clcweb.net/Shooting/Tactical_Shooting/Remington_M700_LTR/remington_m700_ltr.html

oneshotOG
November 21, 2011, 11:32 AM
Wow, you guys all have different opinions! I think just from the amount of people that love the 700, I'll stick with it. I don't want a .243 cause I may end up taking deer at longer ranges in the future and the .308 just has more power. The .300 win mag is just too expensive when it comes too ammo.

Rimfire5
November 21, 2011, 10:14 PM
I have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint and a Savage 10 FP law enforcement model.

The Savage shot great right out of the box with its accutrigger set at 2 lbs 10 oz. It cost less than $ 700.

The Remington was on sale and clearance since it was left over from the previous year's hunting season so I only paid $ 440 for it. The Remington stock was cheap and the factory trigger was set at over 5 lbs 6 oz.
After all the BS about adjusting the Remington factory trigger, I bought a Timney and set it at 2 lbs. It improved its out of the box accuracy. Then I bought a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock to get rid of the flexing in the tupperware factory stock. The new stock got the Remington to the same accuracy level of the Savage.
After all the changes, the Remington cost about $ 800.

Now both shoot just about the same after tweaking the Remington.
I haven't touched the Savage other than to turn the Accutrigger down to 2 lbs even so that both of the rifles have the same trigger pull.

I would expect that either brands will probably be good shooters, but you may have to do some tuning to the Remington if you want to get all the accuracy that it has in it.

You can pretty much choose whichever you really want to buy and have a good shooter. I would expect the Savage to be more accurate out of the box with no tweaking.

PawPaw
November 22, 2011, 06:49 AM
I'm a Savage guy, love the platform. There is no doubt that Savage has set the standard for out-of-the-box accuracy. Their rifles are accurate, easily customizable, lots of aftermarket support. I own several of their rifles and they're all shooters. I've got an -06, a .308, and a .243, all of those are the standard, skinny barrel hunting models and they all keep their shots inside an inch at 100 yards when I do my part. Great rifles. My sons have heavy barrel models, on in .308, the other in .7mmRem mag, and those guys are scary accurate with their rifles. Savage makes great rifles, no doubt about it.

Having said that, the Remington 700 is a standard, a benchmark for the American bolt action rifle. Also easily customizable, lots of aftermarket support. I own a Rem700, just one, in .308. Mine is a standard ADL model, made in 1983. Very accurate rifle. It's got a pretty good trigger and I use it for hunting. It will probably be given to a grandkid in the next couple of years, but right now it's my favorite.

Savage, Remington, take your choice. It's not the rifle so much as the guy behind it.

beerengineer
November 22, 2011, 08:43 PM
Im married to Remington 700 but my mistress is Savage. I have 3 remy's, a SPS 22.250, a remy sendero .300 Ultra mag, and a Milspec 5R .308. All shoot sub MOA, all shoot better than me. Last weekend I shot a 13" 5 shot group at 1000 meters with the milspec 5R. I shot my friends handloads... 175 gr SMK's with 45 grains of powder, can't recal what kind. Remington 700's will shoot lights out. I have a savage .17 HMR that is unbelievably accurate.....LOVE the accutrigger. I have shot my friends 110 BA .338 Lapua Mag and his F-Class , again, I LOVE the accutrigger. My next rifle is going to be a Savage F-Class 6.5 X 284. Bottom line....buy what you like and can afford. Maybe just a little more than you can afford. Shoot both and see what feels good in your hands, on your shoulder and even on your cheek. If I were you I would go with a remington 700 just cuz I like the way they look and feel. Both Savage and Remington are amazing rifles. You win either way.

shurshot
November 22, 2011, 08:57 PM
Buy a Remington and expect your Grandkids to end up using it decades from now. I have a 1940's vintage Remington 721 (Grandfather to todays model 700), in .270 Winchester my Grandfather bought new back in the day. He shot deer, bear, hogs, etc. I just shot a deer with it 2 weeks ago (at 120 yards), and got one last year with it too. Remington's are quality built guns, rugged and accurate.

Check out the .270 caliber, 130 grain bullet. Jack O'Conner (old school hunter, and gun writer), wrote about this caliber years ago for North American big game (40's through 70's), as it is very deadly, accurate and won't rip your shoulder off with recoil either. Mine is SO much more fun to shoot than my .30-06. If you google Jack O'Conner, you might be able to locate some of his storys and articles if you are interested.

Bart B.
November 23, 2011, 09:41 AM
Top classified competitive long range shooters learned back in the 1960's that when shooting bullets heavier than 160 grains from any round receiver (Rem. 7XX, 40X), they twisted a bit out of a perfect fit in traditional epoxy bedding. They held up a little better with pillar bedding, but not much, but still needed to be rebedded every few hundred rounds. Flat bottom/side receivers never had this problem.

It's often mentioned that heavy, low drag bullets can't be used in a .308 Win. Go tell that to folks who've shot Sierra's 240 ou 250 grain HPMK's at 1000 yards from their .308's winning matches with them.

Picher
November 23, 2011, 11:35 AM
I've had .22-250, .223 Rem, .243 Win, 30-06, and .270 Win.

If you handload, the .270 Win is very flexible, shooting both 90 grain Sierra HP mild loads and 130 grain loads to about the same POI at 100 yards. That's a fantastic trait in a caliber. You can take it to the range or turkey shoot with target loads, then go out and "blast-a-beast" with a hot 130 grain load without sight adjustment.

There are even some "Managed Recoil" factory rounds that are more pleasant for recoil-sensitive folks, yet are very effective on deer out to 200 yards.

Cost of a box of .270 Win or '06 ammo at Wally World is under $20. That's pretty cheap for larger-game ammo, yet Core-Locts shoot well under 1 min. in my son's rifle.

Norrick
November 23, 2011, 04:37 PM
You can't really go wrong with a 700. It is pretty much the standard by which all other production rifles are measured.

shootniron
November 23, 2011, 06:10 PM
Remington 700 in .308......love it!!! heres mine,

Did you reverse that picture or something...that bolt handle is on the wrong side.

kraigwy
November 23, 2011, 06:22 PM
Lets see, is the Remington 700 in 308 any good at 500 yards? If I read it right, that is the question.

M40 Marine sniper rifle is a Remington short action, in 308 Max Effective Range 900 meters

M24 Army Sniper rifle is a Remington long action in 308, max effective range is 900 meters.


Hmmmmmmmmmm I would guess somebody thinks the Remington 700 in 308 would work quite well.

If I remember right, Remington makes a varmint heavy barrel in 308. I don't have one but I have a Remington 700 Varment in 223 I used in LE. I've shot it quite a bit at 600, it worked for me. A little lite for 55 grn M193s but I could still get hits.

Indi
November 23, 2011, 06:46 PM
I own neither, I am also looking for a nice .308, mainly for target shooting, but might use it for hunting if i do so next year. Im leaning more towards the savage. Ive heard that it is accurate out of the box, i heard this from a guy who owns a remington 700, he had his bolt trued, and has nightforce everything on his 700. He said his buddy bought a savage and it shot just as well as his remmy. Out of the box Savage is (from what i hear) the way to go!

Joe Chicago
November 24, 2011, 11:21 PM
I would shy away from Remington until they square away their quality control issues. I had to send two Remingtons back to the factory in three months, one of which was a Model Seven with head space issues.

You may want to consider Weatherby's Vanguard S2 or Savage. I'd also suggest TC Venture, but they just issued a recall due to trigger sear issues.

roy1
November 29, 2011, 03:10 PM
Yes there is a re-call on the TC Venture. I would not let this detour you into looking at the Venture. I have one in 223 & 243, both are keepers. Do a Web search and over all you will find good reports on the Venture. $50 rebate from TC on the Venture not sure when this ends (end of Dec?).

TxFlyFish
November 29, 2011, 05:23 PM
Most decent 308 will hit 1000yds. It sounds far but a SMK or AMAX can reach it consistently. Heck even ARs and M1A can hit 1k...buy a reliable and good fitting bolt action and you should be good to go.

warbirdlover
November 29, 2011, 07:29 PM
I tried but I just can't keep my mouth shut when someone disses a Remington 700... :D

I bought a new 7mm Rem Mag BDL in the 1970's when everyone says they were made so great. It would NOT group no matter what I fed it. Scope was good and rings were tight. It would chamber Winchester ammo but NOT Remington! :confused: I took a fired case, rotated it 90º and it would not chamber. It had an out-of-round chamber and the blueing on the bolt handle looked brown, not blue. I gave it back to them and bought something else (senility prevents me from remembering what)... :o So much for their "much better quality" back then...

My new 700 SPS (with the Buckmasters camo stock) is made many times better. It is the cheap version so has the mat black finish but fit and function are superb and the new trigger is fantastic. I've been shooting/owning (many) rifles for almost 50 years and have found you get good and bad from any manufacturer unless you spend the big bucks. So I mounted a good scope on this using Leupold standard bases and rings and it shoots as good as any Savage ever made out-of-the-box. I am selling this only because (in my old age) I've got a bug in my ass to own a wood stocked rifle and I don't want to fool restocking anything. It might be another Remington but it won't be a Savage. ;)

And personally I think the .308 is one of the last rounds I'd ever buy. .270 Winchester, .300 Win mag, 7mm Rem mag, and the new short magnums are all much better for long range shooting. .243 is an excellent choice.

There. Now I feel better..... :D

Joe Chicago
November 29, 2011, 07:59 PM
I would avoid a new Remington since their quality has dropped since Freedom Group acquired them.

warbirdlover
November 29, 2011, 09:08 PM
I would need to see hard data to support the quality drop at Remington. Always will be some problems. I bought mine in the last year and it's the best Remington I've had. You had problems. I'm sure the same applies with Savage, TC, Marlin, Mossberg, etc etc IMHO. :)

Joe C

You ever shoot at Bristol? http://bristolranges.com/

Joe Chicago
December 1, 2011, 08:25 PM
Warbird, I have no empirical evidence for my assertion. My personal eperience with Remington products this year, however, has been terrible. A brand new Model 7 had to go back to the factory for head space issues. Then a brand new 597 threw the ejector plunger on the third round ever fired through it. To make matters worse the front sight was off center, as were the dovetail rails on the receiver. So,Big Green failed me twice out of two tries in three months. This saddens me since I had a 1997 circa 700 ADL that never failed to funtion and shot one inch at 100 yds.

ronl
December 1, 2011, 08:44 PM
I think a Remington 700 in .308 will suit you just fine. My SPS shot easily under 1" out of the box. I had already decided on an aftermarket stock before I made the purchase, and it did help, but it was a good to go rifle out of the box. Take the rifle,shoot it and learn. Your rifle can grow with your experience, as parts and accessories are easily available that can improve accuracy, as can reloading your own ammo. 308 is an excellent choice as ammo is available and relatively inexpensive. Light recoil is also important as you are just beginning. Out past 500 yds is no problem with the cartridge. I also own several Savage rifles and I really like them, so I'm no Remy fanboy

kokopelli
December 2, 2011, 06:28 AM
Can't believe no one mentioned the Howa M1500.
Nice, smooth action- built in Japan. Weatherby and S&W both use their actions for their bolt guns.
check out Snipers Hide forums and see what the guys have to say about the Howa vs the Rem 700. esp. in .308
Oh yeah, cheaper too.

Will Lee
December 2, 2011, 07:28 AM
Here is a vote for the Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 270 win.

warbirdlover
December 2, 2011, 11:18 AM
I had a Howa many years ago and it was the slowest "lock time" of any bolt action rifle I've shot. Seemed like I was shooting a black powder rifle (not the inline kind either)!