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View Full Version : Need considerations for an AR in .308/7.62 NATO


Departed402
November 14, 2011, 01:39 PM
I'll cut right to the chase. I'm looking for different options when it comes to an AR chambered in .308 or 7.62x51. I want a tactiCOOL gun that I can use for hunting. I realize building one piece-by-piece would give me what I want, but I'm looking for a good starting point.

Here are a few things I want:
Designed for 7.62 NATO and .308 Winchester Interchangability - I know there can be some issues with interchanging these rounds if the gun isn't built for the pressure and headspace. I figure if manufacturers make guns that can shoot both .223 and 5.56mm, surely someone has done this for the .308 and 7.62 NATO in an AR platform. This is the biggest issue for me.

Accessory Rail - It's something I think no AR should be without.

No front sight post - I don't like them, I prefer put low-profile fold-up sights.

Dust Cover - I dont understand this, but some manufacturers don't put dust covers on their .308 rifles, but they do on their 7.62mm. Also I prefer to shoot left handed so a brass deflector is a must.

SauerJackson
November 14, 2011, 03:14 PM
People love a certain brand, and that's usually all you'll here about. Armalight's the original, so you really cant go wrong with them. There is also a lot of rock river guys on here, which is fine too. I prefer a panther over RR personally though

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/?cat=1940 I like the Mark 12 for the money....

Polinese
November 14, 2011, 05:27 PM
Larue, Fulton Armory, Noveske and LMT all have some nice 308 ar's too. The LMT was adopted by the Brits if I remeber correctly.

globemaster3
November 14, 2011, 05:29 PM
I applaud the fact you already researched what you want.

Now, how much do you have to spend? That drives a lot of the answer.

Also, for your hunting, do you mind a heavy gun or would you prefer a lighter one? Realize in the 7.62/.308 format, they are all heavier than an AR-15.

Answers to these will drive recommendations.

Carne Frio
November 14, 2011, 05:32 PM
These a available for around $1200 and take inexpensive PMags.:D

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog-308ORC.asp

RT
November 14, 2011, 07:05 PM
LaRue OBR
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-stealth-obr-optimized-battle-rifle-complete-762-rifle-20-barrel

LMT MWS
Noveske N6
KAC SR25

Marquezj16
November 14, 2011, 07:10 PM
A .308 rifle can shoot 7.62N but not the other way around.

lmccrock
November 15, 2011, 07:15 AM
A .308 rifle can shoot 7.62N but not the other way around.
Well, let a manufacturer say what to shoot. DPMS cuts their 308 chambers a bit tight and some NATO ammo might be a bit sticky. But they say to shoot both from their 7.62x51 chamber.

chadio
November 15, 2011, 08:42 AM
(cough)lewis machine tool(/cough)

csmsss
November 15, 2011, 11:43 AM
.308 and 7.62x51 ammo is interchangeable. I wouldn't worry about shooting ammo marked either way regardless pof how the barrel is marked. The only real difference is that a barrel reamed to the. 308 chamber spec will have a chamber that is a bit tighter than one reamed for 7.62x51 - but they are otherwise identical. Ignore any comments you might hear about one being loaded "hotter" than the other. It just isn't so.

Polinese
November 15, 2011, 02:42 PM
POF and Sig also make some piston 308 ar rifles.

GONIF
November 15, 2011, 03:02 PM
CHECK OUT page 35 of the CDNN sales mag for the CMMG custom .308 at 1399.99. You will not do better at the price . Mine groups .59moa at 100 yards with my own hand loads and Fed GMM 168 SMK ammo .
.308 FLUTED
NEW ULTRALIGHT XTRA COMFORTABLE QUAD RAIL DESIGN
2-20RD HI-CAP
MAGPUL MAGS
WASP-WEAPONS ARMORED SURFACE PROTECTION
WASP COATED CHAMBER & BORE
MORE DURABLE THAN CHROME LINING
18” FLUTED BARREL
FULL LENGTH TOP RAIL A2 FLASH HIDER
FREE FLOATING HANDGUARD
CUSTOM
2-STAGE
TARGET
TRIGGE

bacardisteve
November 16, 2011, 12:28 AM
Really depends what you want it for. Are you using it as a MBR or for hunting or paper punching or even as a anti sniper. If weight is a concer dpms makes one that i believe is right around 9lbs. Thats lighter then some people m4 once they hang all the tacti-cool crap on it

Departed402
November 16, 2011, 05:06 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I have a while to save up, and research this some more before I invest any money in one.

I emailed DPMS about their .308/7.62 rifles, and they said their 7.62 NATOs would fire .308 just fine. Not that I don't trust DPMS, I have a few friends that swear by their Panthers, but I'm sure if I asked DPMS if bullets fired their rifles could cure cancer they'll give me whatever answer will sell their guns. So I asked a guy I work with and he said he's been putting .308 through his 7.62 Panther for a while now.

My purpose for this rifle would be pretty broad and would include but is not limited to: deer hunting, home defense, zombies, target shooting, Russian/Chinese invasions, and anti-sniper. I have to admit, I don't foresee two of those uses being entirely necessary ;). I know what I want in the rifle, the hard part will be deciding what optic to put on it.

madcratebuilder
November 16, 2011, 06:34 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I have a while to save up, and research this some more before I invest any money in one.

I emailed DPMS about their .308/7.62 rifles, and they said their 7.62 NATOs would fire .308 just fine. Not that I don't trust DPMS, I have a few friends that swear by their Panthers, but I'm sure if I asked DPMS if bullets fired their rifles could cure cancer they'll give me whatever answer will sell their guns. So I asked a guy I work with and he said he's been putting .308 through his 7.62 Panther for a while now.

My purpose for this rifle would be pretty broad and would include but is not limited to: deer hunting, home defense, zombies, target shooting, Russian/Chinese invasions, and anti-sniper. I have to admit, I don't foresee two of those uses being entirely necessary . I know what I want in the rifle, the hard part will be deciding what optic to put on it.

There is a very minor difference in the head space specs with 7.62/.308. Every M1A or AR10 should headspace correct with either round.

There are some good reviews on the CMMG AR but it's still very new on the market. DPMS is the lowest cost but they cut corners to get there. ArmaLite are very well made with a life time warranty but do not accept the plastic P mags. Noveske are going to be very accurate but cost is high. The LMT is very nice and and it well cost more than a similar ArmaLite. RRA and Bushmaster I haven't shot so I have no comment.

SadistAssassin
November 16, 2011, 06:45 AM
Dpms lr308 line

Logs
November 16, 2011, 06:52 AM
See if you have a Sportsmans Warehouse close by. Last year I picked up a Bushmaster ORC .308 for $899 NIB + tax. Didn't come with rails though.

globemaster3
November 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
joneeman, it seems you want kinda a 1 rifle, does all version.

Some things to consider:

Barrel Length: Your 24" tubes are going to weigh in the neighbrohood of 13+ pounds when you add scope, magazine, and ammo, plus make for a looonger weapon. That might not fit your bill for some home defense scenarios, but would be better for some kinds of hunting and target shooting. Probably 18" would be a good compromise between utility, weight, etc.

Magazines: DPMS and a couple others use a similar mag. Rock River uses the FAL magazines.

Do you want/need forward assist or dust cover? There are lots of opinions on those, but if you are leaning towards "tacticool", then you probably want them, but price will increase.

Really nail down your desires and what really matters, then let that define the rifle choice. Then compare rilfles built to that specification from the different manufacturers to get the price point you can afford. Otherwise, you are walking around the showroom looking at everything and might walk away with something you really didn't need. Which, isn't necessarily a bad thing;)!

Blackops_2
November 16, 2011, 06:13 PM
Personally i like the LMT MWS. But the most accurate AR-10 that i've seen is hands down the GAP AR-10.

Choices would be between:

LMT MWS
Larue OBR
GAP AR-10
LWRC REPR
KAC SR-25

BergisheLandSaint11
November 16, 2011, 09:47 PM
Go with a Cetme or hk91 g3. Based on nazi firearm ingenuity, the stg and spanish prototypes designed by HK firearms guys out of work after ww2 in spain with cetme.

Very nice, feels amazing.

When it comes down to it, guys will say the psl, cetme, fal dont fit well in their hands...I say bullsht.

Cetme and fal cant go wrong, me personally i like the g3 because im a fan of the german design for rifles only.

also...consider a nagant or psl or svd (depending on cash value.) when it comes to a druganov and armour piercing 76254 you cant go wrong.

BergisheLandSaint11
November 16, 2011, 09:48 PM
and not praising nazis in anyway...

but that stg was goddamn legendary and a work of art for its time.

globemaster3
November 17, 2011, 01:58 PM
Go with a Cetme or hk91 g3. Based on nazi firearm ingenuity, the stg and spanish prototypes designed by HK firearms guys out of work after ww2 in spain with cetme.

The OP had specific requirements, which included none of these.

urbanXJ
November 17, 2011, 03:36 PM
look at the cost of the mags

New Armalite 20 or 25 round mags were $55 each last year.

I think I saw the DPMS ones for $15 and magpul also makes some, just not for armalite.

The DPMS mags will not work with the Armalite from what I gather

below is taken form here: http://palmettostatearmory.com/570.php

PMAG 20-LR 7.62x51 (.308) 20rd Magpul Magazine - Black
The PMAG 20-LR (long range) is a lightweight 20-round 7.62 x 51 NATO / .308 Winchester caliber magazine compatible with SR25 pattern rifles such as the Knight's Armament SASS/MK11, DPMS LR308, Larue Tactical Stealth OSR, and others. Designed with long/heavy projectiles such as the 175gr M118LR in mind, the PMAG 20-LR is able to accept all factory SAMMI and "milspec" 7.62/.308 loads. The PMAG 20-LR features a true 20 round capacity, a constant curve body, four-way anti-tilt follower, and pop-off dust cover to prevent dirt/debris intrusion and protect the feedlips during long-term storage. When not in use, the dust cover can be stored on the magazine floorplate.

Not compatible with Armalite AR-10 or Noveske N6 rifles.


just my .02

HKFan9
November 17, 2011, 05:27 PM
Armalite mags are $35 on their website for 20 rounders.

lmccrock
November 17, 2011, 08:35 PM
So I asked a guy I work with and he said he's been putting .308 through his 7.62 Panther for a while now.
Yes, that is what DPMS says is ok. I have a LR308 with a 7.62 marked barrel and it functions with both 7.62 NATO and premium 308 ammo like Federal GMM. I wish I were a better shot to see how well it shoots. :(

New Armalite 20 or 25 round mags were $55 each last year.

I think I saw the DPMS ones for $15 and magpul also makes some, just not for armalite.
I sold some Armalite mags for $50-ish a couple years ago, but that was during the post-election scare. They are $50 at 44mag.com now, but $35 direct from Armalite.

A $15 mag for a DPMS LR308 is probably made by C-Products, not DPMS. DPMS mags on their website are $44.95, which is hard to understand given Pmags around $19.

HKFan9
November 17, 2011, 09:17 PM
For affordable and well built.. my vote is Armalite... only downfall is not using Pmags.

If money is not an issue, LMT, Noveske, LWRC, GAP are all very nice rifles.

Doc Intrepid
November 17, 2011, 11:37 PM
One of the rifles out there that meets all of your requirements below is the Remington R-25, which was pretty much designed to do exactly what you've described in your opening post:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-25/model-r-25-rifle.aspx

If you scroll down on the website blurb you'll see a bit about the design specifications. Comments follow:

"...Here are a few things I want:
Designed for 7.62 NATO and .308 Winchester Interchangability - I know there can be some issues with interchanging these rounds if the gun isn't built for the pressure and headspace. I figure if manufacturers make guns that can shoot both .223 and 5.56mm, surely someone has done this for the .308 and 7.62 NATO in an AR platform. This is the biggest issue for me.I've owned mine for a bit more than 3 years. I've fired military 7.62 and commercial .308 through it with no issues whatever.

Accessory Rail - It's something I think no AR should be without.See the photo on the website. It has one picatinny rail along the top surface of the upper receiver, and a second beneath where the front site post would be (however, the rifle does not come with either a front or rear iron sight. It is designed to be used as a hunting rifle with a scope. The handguard is not designed to mount picatinny rails to on both top and bottom, port and starboard. If you're looking for a 'tacticool' platform to mount lasers, lights, IR, whatever on, this is not what you want.

No front sight post - I don't like them, I prefer put low-profile fold-up sights. There are no iron sights on this rifle. If you want them, however, you could add them.

Dust Cover - I dont understand this, but some manufacturers don't put dust covers on their .308 rifles, but they do on their 7.62mm. Also I prefer to shoot left handed so a brass deflector is a must."The Remington R-25 has both a dust cover and a brass deflector.

This rifle is a collaboration between Remington and DPMS. As far as I know it is manufactured in the US, if this is something that resonates with you. I've used it hunting for the past three years, and I'm very happy with it. Like you, I was looking for an AR-10 platform that would work well in both a hunting situation as well as 'other environments'. This one works well for me.

YMMV.

HKFan9
November 18, 2011, 01:29 AM
Remington, DPMS, and Bushmaster are all owned by the same people.

Blackops_2
November 18, 2011, 04:12 AM
Which is Cerberus..

HKFan9
November 18, 2011, 01:29 PM
Which is Cerberus..

Yup... I used to be a Remington fan... but a lot of the guns coming out of them now I can't keep faith in. Sad day when they bought out Marlin.

GONIF
November 18, 2011, 02:04 PM
I have Fal's,H&K 91's ,Springfield M1A,PTR91,Armalite AR10 nm and AR10T,CMMG .308 custom rifles . The AR10 type rifles are the best shooting and most Accurate. the Armalite AR10T and the CMMG group at .59 moa at 100 yards with Fedrak GMM 168 SMK and my hand loads useing an AMAX 168 . The biggist bang for the buck is the CMMG and it has been 100% relieable right out of the box .It also takes the Magpul .308 20 round Pmag . If the GAP is more accurate it won't be by much .I have shot the CMMG at 500 yards and it is 2moa prone on a Harris Bipod for me with a Weaver tactical EDMR 3-15x50 scope a'm 60 years old and so are my eyes. A better ,younger shooter could do better . At $1399.99 with a 18 inch fluted Wasp lined barrel,billet upper and lower,2 stage trigger Magpul PRS stock,and free float railed tube it is an amazeing rifle at a stupid low price . Life time Warrentee . CDNN HAS them . :D FYI my Remington 5R with a Nikon is NO more Accurate .

Blade37db
November 18, 2011, 02:09 PM
This sounds interesting:
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/SP901.aspx

madcratebuilder
November 19, 2011, 09:27 AM
Personally i like the LMT MWS. But the most accurate AR-10 that i've seen is hands down the GAP AR-10.

GAP makes the GAP-10. AR10 is a trade mark name for the ArmaLite rifle. I agree about the LMT, the one I have spent time with is a accurate reliable shooter. It's heavier than my 16" AR10 but still manageable.



look at the cost of the mags
New Armalite 20 or 25 round mags were $55 each last year.
I think I saw the DPMS ones for $15 and magpul also makes some, just not for armalite.

Late last spring ArmaLite restructured the pricing on their magazines. Current ArmaLite MSRP is $35 and can be found for around $25.
Current DPMS MSRP is $45 and can be found for around $28.
PMags run about $20.



For affordable and well built.. my vote is Armalite... only downfall is not using Pmags.
If money is not an issue, LMT, Noveske, LWRC, GAP are all very nice rifles.


+10

The combination of price, quality, customer service, and a life time warranty makes ArmaLite hard to beat.

While I do use and like Pmags for the AR15 I don't like them for the 7.62 platform. For a mag that size I prefer a steel mag.

I've shot a half dozen different 7.62 AR's and every one has been a accurate platform. Minor differences in feel and some differences of felt recoil is about all I have noticed. I would like to get my hands on one of the CMMG's.

Blackops_2
November 19, 2011, 03:02 PM
GAP makes the GAP-10. AR10 is a trade mark name for the ArmaLite rifle. I agree about the LMT, the one I have spent time with is a accurate reliable shooter. It's heavier than my 16" AR10 but still manageable.


Yeah i know, I still refer the all .308 ARs as AR-10 a habit i guess.

Yup... I used to be a Remington fan... but a lot of the guns coming out of them now I can't keep faith in. Sad day when they bought out Marlin.


I know. While i can't complain about my 5R the only thing that will be left is the action. They also bought out Dakota arms :(... there goes one of the finest custom sporter rifles in the world.

sailskidrive
November 19, 2011, 03:11 PM
I have a Bushmaster LR308 MOE mid length and really like it. I know Cerebus now owns half of the AR industry, including Bushmaster, so it's probably just a DPMS w/ lipstick on it.

This link has some good info on the .308 ARs as well as pics (including one of some chick in skin tight leather holding a G36)

http://308ar.com/

The Fulton Armory Titan is REALLY nice if you have $2k+ to spend.

csmsss
November 19, 2011, 04:44 PM
I don't get all the DPMS bashing. I would not hesitate to take my DPMS LR-308 Sportical into any situation I'd take an AR-10 pattern rifle into. It is rugged, reliable (thousands of rounds through it without a failure), and one of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned.

SauerJackson
November 19, 2011, 10:32 PM
The dpms' are hands down the best bang for your buck that I've seen so far! But I haven't had the chance to play with the cmmg yet.
And the remingtons, bushmasters n panthers are all made separate, out of different plans. And so for far their stupid ownership super group hasn't meddled much with dpms. After causing nothing but problems with remy n bushy they may realized that they're idiots.......

But If you have the money to spend, there are some very nice rifles previously mentioned. I personally wouldn't kick an LRWC or les baer outta bed ;)

HKFan9
November 20, 2011, 03:38 AM
To me... cheapest... doesn't always equate to "best value". I have repaired, and sent back a few DPMS to not fully trust them.

Like I and others have stated... for the best value... it is VERY hard to beat Armalite.

If money wasn't a problem... I would personally probably go for the GAP rifle, but Armalite fills my needs.