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View Full Version : Soft Shooting Semis for Old Pharts


TheKlawMan
November 10, 2011, 11:01 PM
No offense to those who consider themselves to be old pharts, and I am one.

Something that doesn't quite make sense for me is why more of us, and even the kids like BigJimP, with physical issues aren't shooting semis. Is it because the advntages of an o/u outweight the damage being inflicted by one?

It seems that a lot of good dedicated shooters continue to shoot an o/u despite the fact that they know they will eventually pay a physical price. Instead of going with a semi, they set themselves up for an eventual shoulder job or the like. For eample, bigJim mentioned his bicep problem in another thread.

Myself, I was going out to buy an o/u this afternoon but some flooring contractors ketied me up untll it was too late to make the trip. I believe some o/u shooters eventually get a Gracoil. Is that enough to reduce the long term traumatic effects of shooting an o/u vs a semi?

.300 Weatherby Mag
November 11, 2011, 01:21 AM
Rich,

Compared to most of my other guns my 12 gauge o/u does not kick all that bad especially when I shoot 1 oz loads instead of my AA heavy target loads... I do like shooting semis and I really am enjoying my Beretta 3901, especially aftering having a Limbsaver installed..

TheKlawMan
November 11, 2011, 02:45 AM
Damn Weatherby. Every time I hear from you I find out about another shotgun you have. Good for you. I wish I had discovered clay shooting whan I was your age. That deal is deader than my butt after riding my old Harley from here to Santa Rosa. I may be at Prado tomorrow but if I am it will be late.

Slugo
November 11, 2011, 03:12 AM
give me a good O/U any day of the week! I've owned more shotguns than most stores sell in a month. Every semi known to man. Not bragging, just a chronic sickness at one time. Let's see; 1100's, Gold's, AL390's, AL391's, 1400's, etc. Sold every one of them!! For upland bird hunting, sure, give me a nice 20 bore auto. But, other than that, I'm never buying another one. Maintenance, moving parts, cleaning, picking up empties!! Maybe it's because I don't suffer from the so-called "felt recoil" syndrome, I just don't see any other advantage to a semi.

I do suffer with arthritic joints in my fingers and arms, but still choose an O/U any day of the week. I think many auto enthusisasts shoot them because they're cheap compared to a stack barrel. Betch ya'... ;)

TheKlawMan
November 11, 2011, 03:42 AM
Interesting Slugo. I should be pulling the pin on my second sg tomorrow, I mean today. Not counting the inexpensive sxs I had in the early 60's. To be honest, I keep looking at semi's and the price differential is significant,
but am thinking that I have the money for an o/u now so go for it while I have it.

The interesting part is your disease; addicted to shotguns. As long as you can afford your habit its not an addiction.

.300 Weatherby Mag
November 11, 2011, 03:42 AM
I may be at Prado tomorrow but if I am it will be late.

I won't be there...:( Going to take my Rem 1100 (which broke again :mad:), in for repairs, then go see my Grandfather, a WWII vet...

Slugo
November 11, 2011, 04:01 AM
every O/U I own was bought used or LNIB. I've enjoyed some real bargains. Mostly Brownings, but no O/U cheapo's like CZ or other Turkish made garage. The most I ever spent on one, for me that is, not a gun I wanna flip for profit, was $1300. That was for a Special Edition Browning 20 gauge Lightning. Now compare; a new 1100 retails for over a grand! Benelli Super Sports are close to two grand!! Most target grade Beretta's sell for over a grand!!! :eek:

No thanks...

oneounceload
November 11, 2011, 10:02 AM
Two guns I can recommend for the low recoil department - a Kolar with sub gauge tubes will run about 10#, shooting target loads that run slow will make it seem like shooting an Anschutz 22 target rifle; the other would be the Beretta UGB break-open semi. It also weighs a hefty amount and with their recoil reduction system and gas action - shooting target loads, should be soft on your shoulder. While reducing payload weight is important in reducing actual recoil, so is reducing velocity - remember that number is squared in the formula.

A friend who shoot a Kolar also loads 12 gauge loads to 1050 fps - absolute powder puffs

zippy13
November 11, 2011, 11:29 AM
I don't think I have any recoil related maladies, and I was a high volume shooter for many years. Long ago I punked-out, ponied-up and had a JS Air Cushion conversion installed on my primary skeet gun and a Shock Master on my primary trap gun. Both stocks use a G-Squared air unit. Like similar systems (Soft Touch and Hydrocoil), the comb stays in place, so it's easier on the cheek -- your head doesn't get the recoil before the reducer as with pad type units.

The air unit has the advantage of variable pressure. There's even a little pump, with a gauge and relief valve, that connects via a hole in the recoil pad. If you're a four gun shooter, in an attempt for uniformity, you can make the thing rock hard for the .410 and progressively softer for the 28, 20 and 12-gauge events. With rebounding stocks, there is a vast difference of opinion about what feels right. Some folks like 'um rock hard while others like theirs feeling like a sack of mush. With an air unit, adjustment is infinite and can be done quickly.

TheKlawMan
November 11, 2011, 11:54 AM
Okay. It sounds as though the risk of damage isn't that great, especially as I will never be shooting the volume of shells that some of you guys put out. I I have some existing cervical problems and it looks like a touch of arhtitis here and there has raised its ugly head, but one thing shooting the 870 seems to have taught me is that (excluding the horrible early days when I was mounting completely wrong and got the hell beat out of me) recoil doesn't affect my neck. If I were a kid, like BigJimP, looking at 30 to 40 years spitting out shot like a wood chipper, I would be more concerned with chronic repetitive trauma.

I was thinking more about what I believe Slugo is doing. Buying used, enjoying them, and then flipping those guns, and hopefully for a little profit, when he feels like playing with a new toy.

thinkingman
November 11, 2011, 01:11 PM
I don't consider myself old, but I do have torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders from football 30 yrs ago.
In the field, I shoot a Browning Silver Hunter 20...quail and chukar get 1oz of 8's...roosters get 3" 1 1/4oz loads.
I think the recoil on that light shotgun is really low.
If I was shooting ducks and geese, it would be my Rem 11/87 12ga. heavy and gas-operated. It's a pig to carry for upland but sitting in a blind...who cares?

BigJimP
November 11, 2011, 01:17 PM
You guys are talking about me like I can barely raise my arm....geez...

My shoulder injuries had everything to do with being young and stupid ...a below average football lineman-played on early versions of astro-turf, a few motorcycle accidents, trying to move too many heavy objects on my own - didn't want to wait for help ...----so young and stupid / or older and stupid ---but still stupid. and surgeries on my back, and on both elbows, and tendonitis, arthritis, etc in my right hand and wrist...( just part of living life ) ...and yes, I'm still a kid at 61 now ...( with 4 adult kids /and 10 grandkids from 2 - 20 )....geez ....

I'm right handed / shoot right handed - and I fractured my right shoulder blade in a cycling accident / and over time I had torn rotator cuff about 90% / had torn bicep where it goes thru shoulder about 90% / and some bone spurs..../ and yes, over the years I've fired 500,000 or more shotshells...but it had little, if anything, to do with my shoulder injuries.

My shoulder is repaired - but the repair on the bicep was to cut it/ shorten it and reattach it mid arm bone with screws...so its there, but reduced length means less strength. All this was repaired 2 yrs ago ...and its a lot better - than prior to surgery when I was awake with pain most of the night / or 6 or 8 times a night. So I had to have it fixed. I did not shoot shotguns for about 6 months ...but today, I'm 90% on good days / 75% on poor days....but nothing orthopedically repaired will ever make me 25 yrs old again ...or give me that strength back ...and I don't care about that really.

I prefer to shoot an 8 1/2 lb O/U with 30" barrels - for skeet, sporting and field hunting ...and a 32" O/U at 10 lbs for Trap. With reduced loads of 1oz in a 12ga at 1225 fps ...most days, I'm just fine for up to 200 shells - and a little advil. On bad days ( when my bicep or my shoulder hurts ) I do go to a Benelli super sport at 7.2 lbs ...and most of that is the motion to mount the gun ...the push out, the move up and back into shoulder with an 8.5 lb gun or a 10 lb gun on bad days, I just can't do without a lot of extra pain. So on bad days - its easier to shoot a lighter gun. Or somedays I only shoot 100 targets ..and that's ok too.

At some point down the road ...when I'm Klawmans age ...:eek: ...I may go to a gun like the Beretta UGB ...a hybrid / gas operated ...../ but in general, I have no intention of shooting semi-autos as my primary guns. I also have the luxury of having Browning O/U's 30" barrels at 7.5 lbs in 20ga, a 28ga and a .410 ....and on bad days, I can shoot the 28ga or the .410 as well ...( my O/U's are 7.5 lbs ...and I usually shoot them with 8oz of extra weight under the forend and 8oz in the stock to get them up to my ideal weight of 8.5 lbs ..) but they're easy to lighten up - if I want to ...

I think I would just shoot the 28ga O/U primarily ....before I would go to a semi-auto ...or at least a standard semi-auto ( and I have Benelli super sport in 20ga as well with a 28" barrel at 6.2 lbs - but LOP is too short / and I haven't developed a way to lengthen it ...so my son has it right now ) ...but its an option ....or maybe the Beretta UGB ...but being a Browning guy ...I'd have to gag a little every time I touched a Beretta ...break out in hives...but maybe I'd get over it / if I wasn't physically able to shoot a heavy O/U.

My hope - seriously - is to just come up with a way to keep shooting reasonably well ....well into my 80's ( not competitively anymore - but say an 88 - 92 on Skeet - with no round below a 22 / 95 or so on Trap / and in the 70's on sporting clays ....) / and if I have to put up the 12ga O/U's ok ...but since I'm as stubborn as I am ugly ...my hope is, a little advil will make it all ok for a long time .... :D ...

and quit talking about me like I'm a puppy Klawman ...big guys have feelings too ya know .../ even if we don't look like it ...we're sensitive ..;)...or we could be at least ...sniff,sniff....;)

zippy13
November 11, 2011, 01:46 PM
but in general, I have no intention of shooting semi-autos as my primary guns.
Ya know, something overlooked with semi shooting: If you're a reloader, it may pose a hazard to your lumbar region due to all that bending over harvesting hulls. Many shooters consider hull management a bonus feature with O/U guns.

BigJimP
November 11, 2011, 01:57 PM
yeah ....I hate it when my hulls hit the ground ... / .....

and if you ever drop a 28ga hull on the ground ....you better hop out of the way / because 3 guys will be in a scrum grabbing and going after it ....

TheKlawMan
November 11, 2011, 01:59 PM
and quit talking about me like I'm a puppy Klawman ...big guys have feelings too ya know .../ even if we don't look like it ...we're sensitive .....or we could be at least ...sniff,sniff....

BigJim, Don't be hurt. I loved all our puppies, even the St. Bernard:D

BigJimP
November 11, 2011, 02:04 PM
Ok, I'll go have a couple of drinks at lunch ...and try to get over it ....

oneounceload
November 11, 2011, 03:24 PM
It sounds as though the risk of damage isn't that great

Not if the gun fits

TKM - Remember the mantra we told you way back when -

The HEAVIEST gun you can handle that fits, shooting the lightest loads that work the gun will give you the lowest recoil - period.

Adding recoil dampening devices to a gun that fits will aid in the reduction of the felt recoil

But, recoil is recoil - and even a little bit adds up - think of the seeping drops of water that made the great cave around the world - even a little does damage over the long haul

If you are going to shoot (rimfire and air guns excepted), you will accumulate damage from recoil - all you can do is maximize the ways to lessen the impact over time

Dave McC
November 11, 2011, 03:46 PM
Rotator cuff probs are why I gave up bowhunting.Silver lining, I rediscovered my old love affair with shotguns and that path led me here.

Some light kickers I've shot recently include....

391,3901, A400 and UGB Berettas.

A pair of 1100 trap models.

And a SX3.

The UGB and the A400 were the lightest kickers, subjectively.

Still, my 8 lbs plus 686 O/U with 7/8 oz loads kicks butt but not me.

And I don't aggravate my lower back bending over for hulls.

badge851
November 11, 2011, 08:03 PM
No offense to those who consider themselves to be old pharts, and I am one.

Something that doesn't quite make sense for me is why more of us, and even the kids like BigJimP, with physical issues aren't shooting semis. Is it because the advntages of an o/u outweight the damage being inflicted by one?

It seems that a lot of good dedicated shooters continue to shoot an o/u despite the fact that they know they will eventually pay a physical price. Instead of going with a semi, they set themselves up for an eventual shoulder job or the like. For eample, bigJim mentioned his bicep problem in another thread.

Myself, I was going out to buy an o/u this afternoon but some flooring contractors ketied me up untll it was too late to make the trip. I believe some o/u shooters eventually get a Gracoil. Is that enough to reduce the long term traumatic effects of shooting an o/u vs a semi?A lot of us handle this in different ways. First, I consider "Old Pharts" to be 60+, I just squeaked in as I am presently 61.

For the uplands my choice had always been an Ithaca® 16ga SxS. (I would rather have two shots through two chokes, than three shots through one choke.) In 2008 however all of that changed; I had rotator cuff repair and a total shoulder replacement. Bottom line of that is my days of hunting with my 12 & 16ga are OVER.

I use a 20ga SxS for the uplands, and a 20ga pump for turkey & waterfowl. I harvest just as many birds as I ever did w/a 12 or 16ga gun. I think with all of the advances in ammunition quality the 20ga is a very viable option. My shoulder sure appreciates the 50% reduction in recoil that a 20ga provides.

TheKlawMan
November 11, 2011, 08:17 PM
Whether to go with a semi is academic for me now. I am (back) in the jail house now (and I wasn't busted my Dave McC's Humor Police.