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TheKlawMan
October 21, 2011, 10:41 AM
If I don't want to change the height a gun shoots in relation to its POA, how should the mid bead line up in relation to the front? Do I center the mid behind the front like placing one disc on top of another or should I see a figure 8 and would this hold true whether the gun shoots flat like a skeet gun or high like a trap gun with a sloping rib?

I imagine this can be specific to a particular gun and the type of beads and if you really want to know how it shoots you should go to the patterning board, but I am trying to figure out if I have a neutral or high mount when trying guns.

This is what Remington says:

To see if your gun fits, close your eyes, raise your gun to your face and shoulder, then open your eyes. If you see the two beads directly in line on your ventilated rib, the gun fits. But if they are off and you can see some of the rib in between, the gun doesn't fit and you should have a good gunsmith adjust the stock accordingly.

oregunner
October 21, 2011, 11:16 AM
"I imagine this can be specific to a particular gun and the type of beads and if you really want to know how it shoots you should go to the patterning board, but I am trying to figure out if I have a neutral or high mount when trying guns."

Every gun is different. You really have to shoot them to find out for sure. You can tell somewhat based on the rib configuration. Flat rib, line up the beads, will shoot flat. Some trap guns won't shoot flat no matter how you see the beads. They are designed to shoot high. Mark

BigJimP
October 21, 2011, 12:13 PM
In my view....ideally, you want to mount every gun the same ...and the technique I use ...is to push the gun away from my body ---raise it straight up in front of my shoulder ---and then bring it straight back into my shoulder. Ideally - the gun should come straight back into my shoulder and into my face. I should not "crab" into - or roll into the gun ...or roll my head down to the comb....

If I do all this with my eyes closed ...I mount the gun ....and then I open my eyes without moving the gun in my hands or on my shoulder or moving my head ...I would like to see a perfect figure 8 between mid bead and front bead... where one dot just touches the other. I don't want to see space between them ( meaning the muzzle is up ) ....and I don't want to see one dot covering the other ( meaning the muzzle is down)...

If I don't see what I want ...it might mean the gun will shoot high or low for me ...but in any case it will not hit where I look which is critical to making a shotgun work for you in terms of scoring or killing birds on clays or in the field.

But being able to compare guns like this ....means your mount has to be really consistent. If the angles of your elbows change ...the comparison is all messed up. If you crab into it / or you move it after you shoulder it ...its all messed up.

But all of this is why I think a parallel comb gun ...is the gun that will fit 99.9% of the shooters out there ...and if you have an adj comb in the gun ...then you can adjust for cast ...and raise it to fine tune the fit ...for a 50%/50% pattern on Point of Impact ...or a 60%/40% or whatever you want.

TheKlawMan
October 21, 2011, 02:21 PM
Okay. That is clear and that part about not not moving the gun around but remounting that Jim us talking about I recently found to be important. I was concerned that I was shooting over the bird if I set up for an 8 so I set up with the mid ahead of the front bead. That worked better, but I think that was because I was shooting so late that the bird was no longer rising The gun was a flat shooting Skeet gun and the game was 16 yard trap. Had I only shot in the break zone, the 8 would have broke more clay as I would have shot a bit higher than flat.

zippy13
October 21, 2011, 05:04 PM
Had I only shot in the break zone, the 8 would have broke more clay as I would have shot a bit higher than flat.
But, it you are shooting late, the Figure-8 will put you even higher over the top of the falling bird.

BigJimP
October 21, 2011, 05:17 PM
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the last post klawman...???

Like Zippy said ...you have to hit those Trap targets when they're still rising and under power ! As a trap target levels off - they also slow down ..and then they start dropping...and the further they drop, the faster they drop ...and then you have to shoot under them ..and keep the muzzle of your gun moving toward the ground which is really difficult to do. ???

olddrum1
October 21, 2011, 10:25 PM
What Z said. I always fishbowl them.

TheKlawMan
October 21, 2011, 11:13 PM
Jim, It made perfectly good sense at the time and to its writer, moi.

I was trying to say that I agreed and recently found that it was better to dismount a canted gun then to try to adjust it as mounted.

The other part confirmed that when I set up with the beads comprising a figure 8 I was shooting too high. As Zippy pointed out that was because I was shooting as the bird reached its zenith. I found that because I was shooting so late, I was doing better with the mid bead lined up directly behind the front bead.

Mismost
October 27, 2011, 09:50 AM
KlawMan.....when you stack the beads into a figure 8, all you have really done is just insure that your eye is looking right down the middle of the rib. If your eye is off to the left or right, it is impossible to stack the beads.

If you see a stacked figure 8, you are looking right straight down the middle of the rib. That part is good. BUT, you still do not know how high or how the low the gun shoots, you do NOT know it's point of impact. Oregunner has told you right in the second post....go shoot some patterns and find out lots of good info like POI, and pattern density. While you are there, check all your choke tubes...I've seen some bad tubes that moved the pattern around.

The game you shoot...birds, trap, skeet, sporting will to a certain extent dictate where you want your POI to hit. Skeet and trap, I like a high shooting gun that lets me keep the bird slightly over the barrel (I float a target). Sporting, I want a flat shooting gun.

Here is where you can actually use those two beads. Say your figure 8 lets your gun shoot pretty flat...so you're good for sporting clays. Then you go to the trap field where every target is rising and naturally a higher shooting gun will be a big help on these targets. Simply raise your head/mount and get some daylight between those beads....now the gun is gonna shoot higher.
How much higher? You don't know, because you have not spent any time at the patterning board!

Two more things. 1. Practice mounting your gun at home 100 times every evening with your eyes closed, then open your eyes and see if you have the beads lined up. When you can open your eyes and see the beads lined up 100 times in a row, you are good to go on your gun mount. You will know what it FEELS like when it's right. If it don't feel right, it ain't...start over. 2. NOW, quit looking at the dang beads, get your focus out there on the target. Shotgunning rule number 1 is LOOK AT THE BIRD...I take that a step further and try to NEVER look at the gun/barrel/beads.

Take some lessons. Lessons are much cheaper than shells and targets in the long run. Learn how to do it right and avoid teaching yourself lots of bad habits.

hogdogs
October 27, 2011, 10:55 AM
Here is how I look upon this...

No one can suggest a particular "mount" and "sight picture" for you and your gun...

Closest is some tips...
But what I do is I mount the gun, choose a sight picture (including the bead/s) then fire. I remember how I had the image and then adjust for accuracy.

You will see when I post about sight picture range etc... I will always qualify my statement with "for me and my gun, I will have the bead at this point for a shot at that distance..." or something like that.

Like the guy shooting high... Simple "Kentucky Windage" adjustment and you are now lethal... at that distance at least...

Brent