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upstate81
October 21, 2011, 07:24 AM
On the ithaca website they claim that their deer slayer III is a 200 yard slug gun. I find that very hard to believe. Does anyone have any experience with this gun?

Brian Pfleuger
October 21, 2011, 07:38 AM
I don't have any experience with THAT gun but I'd be very surprised if any gun (as in product line, not individual example) was a reliable 200 yard slug gun.

I tested about 6 different high-end sabot slugs in two different known reliable (accurate) guns, a Rem 11-87 and a Browning Gold, to see how far a modern rifled slug gun could go. By reliably accurate I mean at "traditional" slug gun distances.

Both guns, with the most accurate slugs we found were MARGINALLY acceptable at 100 yards. Neither was good enough to shoot deer at 125 yards.

Tests were done with scoped guns on rock solid rest by sub-moa shooters.

Now, this testing is not "statistically valid" but I'm not sure what might be different about some other gun that would change the results. I mean, these guns are both DESIGNED to shoot sabot slugs and neither could do it beyond 100 yards.

Fact is, my 18" barrel, smooth bore Rem 870 shot Hornady SST slugs just as well as either of the rifled guns... at least out to 75 yards, which was the essential limit in my opinion anyway.

upstate81
October 21, 2011, 07:45 AM
That's what I thought! It is a great lookin gun but with a 1000 dollar price tag ill pass her up. BTW I to use us an 870 smooth bore and it drops em every time. Gotta love the wingmaster;)

Brian Pfleuger
October 21, 2011, 07:50 AM
There was a fellow here on TFL a couple years back who went to Africa with a 12ga and shot animals out to 175 yards.
I don't know what his gun was, I'm pretty sure he was shooting the new (at the time) Remington plastic tipped slugs, I don't remember the name of them.
In any case, from my experience and most all other reports, I think his gun is by far the exception.

Brian Pfleuger
October 21, 2011, 07:52 AM
BTW, that 11-87 is for sale if you're interested. ;)

upstate81
October 21, 2011, 08:06 AM
Wow I thoght 375 and up was the norm there that's amazing. If I hadn't just bought 3 guns since august I'd be all over that 1187 :D

jaguarxk120
October 21, 2011, 08:06 AM
I can't say if it's good or bad, but the way it is put together, fixed heavy barrel on the frame 26 inches long should give the gun some shooting capability. Eight inches of extra barrel over 18 should be a plus factor.

What about the Browning A-bolt shotgun??

jrothWA
October 21, 2011, 08:34 AM
most likelt it's for a 3" SABOT shell and has the rifled barrel, not smootbore.

Some individuals MAY be able to use that capability, most can't. e.g.: poor practice, lousy scope, etc.

Max for anyone with limited abilities should be 100+ yds.

If you're going to use it or any firearm you SHOULD now be at the range for the next couple of week-ends, before opening day.

NOT THE SATURDAY/SUNDAY, IMMEDIATELY PRIOR.

upstate81
October 21, 2011, 09:26 AM
That's very true. As most of us know there are thousands of weekend warrior city slickers that don't ever practice and see that claim then they proceed to go afield and wound deer ect. Its a fine line to have a claim such as that.

jimbob86
October 21, 2011, 09:40 AM
Max for anyone with limited abilities should be 100+ yds.


Max for anyone should be whatever range they can reliably hit the vital area of the target animal under field conditions at...... I use a milk jug to simulate a deer's vital area ...... If my kids can't repeatedly bust jugs at 100 yards with their gun, then they can't shoot at a deer that far away..... if they can only make hits with shooting sticks that far, then they need to use them in the field on shots that long...... we don't shoot shotguns at deer, but the premise still holds.

Test yourself (and your gun/load)..... you might be surprised. Find what your abilities are "limited" to.

Wyosmith
October 21, 2011, 09:42 AM
I have no experience with the Ithaca Deer slayer. However, I make muzzleloading rifles to earn most of my living, and I can tell you that a good muzzleloader with a good barrel is EASILY capable of killing deer at 200 yards. So if the ammo was up to the task, and if the barrel is of high quality I would not disbelieve their statement.
You see, most bolt action rifles you can buy today are capable of hitting the vitals of a deer at probably 800 yards, but one in 5000 men is capable of that.
Long shots with muzzleloaders are very easy IF and only IF you know the load, and are capable of judging range.
One time against a bet I hit a yellow quart Pennzoil bottle at 250 yards with my flintlock 62 cal rifle 3 times out of 5 shots. I won the dinner. The man I was betting against told me I could not hit it at all.
Now, I shoot that rifle a lot, and I know how to hold the sights out to about 275, so I was confident that I could make those hits I missed 2 times, but I was close enough to make the bottle bounce. Obviously ALL those balls would have killed a deer.
So if the Ithaca is as accurate as my flintlock (which I’d bet it is) I can believe their claim with no problem.

jaguarxk120
October 21, 2011, 09:48 AM
Ithaca is now made in Ohio, the hunting there is with shotgun, open fields, fence lines not many wooded areas. A shotgun works best for them. In lower Michigan you can only hunt with shotgun or muzzle loader. A long range shotgun works in the cover we have.

Brian Pfleuger
October 21, 2011, 09:49 AM
Muzzleloaders with sabots are FAR more accurate than shotguns with sabots, in my experience. 200 yards with my uncles Savage ML10 is a pretty easy shot. It groups much more like a rifle than a shotgun.

jimbob86
October 21, 2011, 10:05 AM
What about the Browning A-bolt shotgun??

I have read reviews on that ...... that thing is a shotgun in the same sense that a modern inline muzzle-loader is a muzzle-loader. They built it from the ground up to be a rifle that happens to chamber 12 guage slug ammunition.

You see, most bolt action rifles you can buy today are capable of hitting the vitals of a deer at probably 800 yards........

Provided the the deer did not move while the bullet was in flight, this is true.

........ but one in 5000 men is capable of that.


Therein lies the rub: correct range estimation, trajectory and wind doping is not easy ...... and holding steady in field positions is not easy either ......BUT, they can be learned. They used to teach draftees to hit stationary targets with an -06 to 600 yards ....... they don't teach that stuff anymore, for whatever reason...... I think it is because it is dangerous for tyrants to rule over peasants who can hit a man at 1/2 a mile or better...... but that's just me, and it's OT.

upstate81
October 21, 2011, 10:13 AM
Maybe this gun is worth looking into as I do a lot of my hunting in my apple orchard and those rows are long. Its just odd that a sabot would be accurate and effective at 200 yrds. It would be nice to use the 06' that's for sure. I save that for DMP and a spotlight after everyone is done hunting deer. :D

jrothWA
October 21, 2011, 10:08 PM
in sealing the bore and getting max advantage of the gas pressure, then due to the light weight of the sabot in relation to bullet weight the maximum velocity generated / transferred to the bullet. Thereby working with the BC of the bullet give the maximum range to it.

You really need to be practicing now to get FULL advantage.

Chavo
October 22, 2011, 06:48 AM
they make a 3.5" shell it might add a little extra, I don't know my 2 3/4 are fine. I hunt with open sights so I can't get shooting all that far away anyways.

I've never tried these
http://www.remington.com/~/media/Images/Ammunition/Shotshells/AccuTipSlug12gabox.ashx

Brian Pfleuger
October 22, 2011, 07:18 AM
Ah, yes, Accutips. Those are what the guy in Africa said he was shooting at 175.

We tried them, they were no worse or better than most others.

roadrash
October 23, 2011, 05:13 AM
I do not know about 175 yards,but at 50 off the bench with open sights my fully rifled 870 will shoot cloverleafs all day long with 3" remington copper solids.

I have never come close to that kind of consistency with any smoothbore I have ever owned.

Every deer I have taken with it has been -100 yds .