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codyb1991
October 17, 2011, 09:33 PM
I went and sighted in my Remington 700 adl in .270 on Sunday, I started at 50 yards to sight in and my second group was moa. But I fired another 5 shot group at 50 yards and every other shot was to the right, 3 dead center and 2 about 1/4" right. Is it possible that I need to break in the barrel or was that just my shooting?

taylorce1
October 17, 2011, 09:43 PM
Can you post any pictures of the targets? What were you using for a rest as well at the range? What type of M700 ADL, SPS, BDL, or CDL? The more info you can provide the better in these cases.

nbkky71
October 17, 2011, 09:49 PM
Were you using optics? If so, check to see if the rings/base are tightened down.

codyb1991
October 17, 2011, 10:07 PM
I do not have a picture of the targets but I was using a Remington 700 ADL with a synthetic stock and a matte blue finish 24" barrel withe the (from what I heard is crappy) Remington 3-9×40 scope factory mounted.

taylorce1
October 17, 2011, 10:21 PM
Since it is the ADL package with scope then I'd move out to 100 yards and see how you shoot. You said MOA so was your group 1/2 inch or less because that is what MOA would be at 50 yards? If you can keep your shot groups under 1.5" at 100 yards then you have a pretty good hunting rifle.

Things you can do that may help your rifle shoot more consistantly is bed the stock, have a trigger job done by a gun smith, and upgrade your optics. Give your rifle time to cool off between groups as well.

briandg
October 17, 2011, 10:33 PM
you would be well served to do two things.

First, disassemble and reassemble your rifle, checking for looseness around the action, then check with a paper shim to see if the barrel floats properly. there should be a little contact at the very front of the stock, but only on the bottom.

Then do the same thing with the scope and mounts, and if you have a spare, mount a different scope on it for testing if the stock fit is alright.

problems like this are a process of ruling out all of the possible flaws. stringing to the right like this seems to me to be a probable flaw in bedding.

bpeezer
October 17, 2011, 10:34 PM
I agree with nbkky71, my roommate had the same problem with his factory mounted scope with the ADL. He got a new scope and higher quality rings and hasn't had that problem since then.

jdillon
October 17, 2011, 11:06 PM
Before you disassemble the rifle, check the scope mounts and the bedding of the barrel with paper as mentioned in previous posts. Are you shooting the same lot of ammo?

is there a possibility you are pulling your shots. Also make sure if you are using a rest the forearm is contacting in the same point with equal pressure. If none of these suggestions help, then you may to consider remounting the scope with new rings and bases. It helps if you can lap the rings prior to mounting and torque to spec.

Palmetto-Pride
October 17, 2011, 11:08 PM
The first thing you want to do is take off that POS scope that came with it. A good replacement would be a Nikon Prostaff.

Jim Watson
October 17, 2011, 11:09 PM
3 dead center and 2 about 1/4" right.

Sounds like a bad case of Internet Expectations.
If the worst it does is half the shots 1/4" off at 50 yards, that is really pretty good for a hunting rifle, stories you read online notwithstanding.

Scorch
October 18, 2011, 12:06 AM
5 shot group at 50 yards and every other shot was to the right, 3 dead center and 2 about 1/4" right.
Sounds like a 1/2" group to me. If the "left-right-left-right" thing bothers you, take your scope off and tighten the bases. But 1/2" ain't all that bad. . .

Steel Talon
October 18, 2011, 12:41 AM
Try some different factory ammo. to see if improvement can be had! If not

1st... check stock and action fit. Remove stock inspect contact points for ant abnormalities. Reassemble make sure contact is complete and action screws are torqued properly.

** Now take rifle to range for accuracy check.. RUN a "box" check of your scope to check zero. 5 shots AT same point of aim
first... 2nd shot .eight clicks up and fire. 3rd shoot 8 clicks right fire...4th shot 8 clicks down fire.last shot 8 clicks left fire.

2nd...if no improvement remove scope rings and bases.
*Upgrade rings and bases.
*Install bases check for contact anomalies. Torque properly in place.
*Lap rings and bases to ensure even contact with scope. Torque properly
*Check scope fire box method again.

3rd...if no improvement return/replace scope.

4th...if no improvement then its probably the action/barrel problem.

Check action to barrel fit, check lans and grooves (fire lap maybe) set a 11degree target crown.

Or send rifle in to manufacturer for check

oneoldsap
October 18, 2011, 07:32 AM
:cool:He said what ? Obviously shooter error . There is no other reason all rounds shouldn't pass through the same hole . Just about every other sporting rifle on the internet can shoot caliber sized groups , yours should too ! Actually a quarter inch from centers is probably more like 1/4 MOA . It could be the rifle , there's alot of junk out there on the market these days . Seriously , if you can improve the performance of your rifle , please document everything you did and PM me with your results , inquiring minds want to know !

Cowboy_mo
October 18, 2011, 07:44 AM
Make sure your barrel gets a chance to cool. I recommend waiting at least 2 minutes between your shots.

I have a remington 742 in .30-06 (no it is not bolt action accurate) but it is very accurate for a semi auto. It will group 3 very well but as the barrel heats the rifle will throw high & right, not a lot but enough to mess up the grouping.

PawPaw
October 18, 2011, 07:58 AM
I went and sighted in my Remington 700 adl in .270 on Sunday. ...But I fired another 5 shot group at 50 yards and every other shot was to the right, 3 dead center and 2 about 1/4" right. Is it possible that I need to break in the barrel or was that just my shooting?

The Remington ADL is a hunting rifle. From your description, it sounds like it's shooting just fine. 3 shots dead center and 2 shots 1/4" right is perfectly acceptable for a hunting rifle at 50 yards. It sounds to me like it's shooting pretty close to MOA. I'd move my target out to 100 yards and see how it shoots.

You might want to check to make sure screws are tight and try to bed it to the sandbags the same way each time. As your target moves further from the rifle, small inconsistencies in forearm pressure, cheek weld and trigger control will start to manifest in ways that will make your group open up.

All the other stuff folks recommended (upgrade mounts, rings, scope, bed the rifle, trigger job, etc) are fine to do as you are able to do them, but from the description, it sounds like you should learn your rifle before you start making changes.

warbirdlover
October 18, 2011, 09:08 AM
Scope is loose or internal scope problem.

bman940
October 18, 2011, 10:00 AM
I've seen uneven ring tightening throw off rounds.More pressure on one side of the rings then the other, make sure you tighten both sides evenly and that the gap is the same on both sides of scope rings.
I do loke the suggestion of going out and getting a ProStaff too!
Bart
Nikon Pro Staff

codyb1991
October 18, 2011, 11:52 AM
I used a box of Remington core lokts 130gr. In .270 and a box of federal 130 gr. Could have been the ammo. I'll check this weekend. But my barrel is not free floated, it has 2 nubbs at the start of the stock, can I file those down? And I double checked at the range that my mounts and rings were tight.

bman940
October 18, 2011, 12:00 PM
C, I have a custom .300 WinMag that shoots about 2" MOAwith 180 gr. bullets and .5 MOA with 190 Grain Hornadays. Go figure, but guess what I shoot out of it? 190 all day long.

Sweet Shooter
October 18, 2011, 12:45 PM
Codyb1991, You could file those nubs off. I have on two of my own 700 plastic stocks. I then super-glued a thin leather pad back in the end of the channel. It made no difference either way. I did remove some material out of the side of the barrel channel as it looked like it was pressing on one side more than the other.

There's nothing wrong with those plastic stocks, if everything is fitting nice. My SPS will shoot occasional .5 MOA groups if I let the barrel cool between shots, and then it will shoot 15 consecutive rounds—hot—into about an inch or 1.15" with HP or BT (Vmax) factory ammo. 75 percent of those 15 rounds are inside of .75 MOA.

-SS-

jhnrckr
October 18, 2011, 01:07 PM
check your scope bases. they dont use loctite from the factory and sooner or later they are going to wiggle loose.

codyb1991
October 18, 2011, 02:05 PM
Sweet Shooter, can I use a regular old file to do the job? And does free floating the barrel improve accuracy by a long shot?

PawPaw
October 18, 2011, 02:15 PM
can I use a regular old file to do the job?

Yep, although some of us use wood rasps, but I prefer to roll a piece of sandpaper around a dowel and use that to float the barrel. Midway USA and other sell specialized tools for hogging out a barrel channel.

And does free floating the barrel improve accuracy by a long shot? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, although generally a rifle will shoot better with a floated barrel. If you float your barrel and it doesn't help, it's easy to add something in the barrel channel, either leather or synthetic, to add a pressure point.

taylorce1
October 18, 2011, 02:18 PM
And does free floating the barrel improve accuracy by a long shot?

It may improve your groups and it may make them worse. Some barrels need pressure points to make them shoot some don't. Free floating usually works to improve the groups some but don't expect .5" groups to go down to .1" groups by floating a barrel.

briandg
October 18, 2011, 03:07 PM
barrels ring like a tubular bell when a shot is fired. The heavier and stiffer the barrel is, the less it vibrates. a fluted heavy barrel will vibrate a lot less than a whip thin barrel on a scout carbine. That is why target rifles use heavy tubes.

A floated barrel works best for heavy barrels for a single reason. When the vibration is damped to the level that a really heavy barrel reaches, any sort of contact with the stock will interfere with the normal oscilations.

The whip thin barrels need a different damping method. So, a slight pressure is added symmetrically to the bottom of the barrel at forend. It dampens the vibration some. Badly done, it can actually worsen accuracy, but in most cases, a forend pad in the barrel channel does what it is supposed to. It makes the barrel vibrations a shorter wavelength.

The simple answer is that you should not float a hunting barrel unless it is stringing shots badly. BADLY. When you do float it, be prepared to re-bed it with a better control bead if your accuracy suffers.

I must have missed the part about this being 1/4 of an inch. That is really insignificant, and you may never determine exactly why your rifle is going off zero by the equivalent of only 1/2 inch at 100 yards. A hunting rifle is expected to make 1 to 1-1/2 inch groups, and this meets those expectations.

codyb1991
October 18, 2011, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm gonna shoot a few more boxes of ammo this weekend and see how it turns out.

m&p45acp10+1
October 18, 2011, 05:44 PM
I am in the let it cool down camp. If you can put it in the shade while it cools down that would be even better. You should be able to wrap your hand around the barrell and pick it up, with it feeling like it has not had a shot fired out of it cool between shots.

Also shots can go to a different POI from a cold squeeky clean barrel to one that has had a few round fired out of it. A lot of target shooters fire a few rounds first to fowl the barrell. It depends on what you are using it for.

If for hunting I would wait at least 10 minutes between shots. Make sure the barrel is at absolute cool. Then fire the shot. If you are hunting with it you probably will not have the luxury of first firing a few shots to fowl the barrel, and warm it up.

Sweet Shooter
October 18, 2011, 07:06 PM
@codyb1991
I used a Dremel tool to remove those "nubs". But like I said I ended up super-gluing a thin piece of leather back in there. I did use a metalwork file to remove some of the plastic running along the one side where it was a bit tighter. I don't think it makes much difference if the barrel is floated or not on with the synthetic/plastic stocks. If you get a nice walnut stock and bed it with pillars and float it, then I would expect to see a bigger improvement.

Try this at your next range visit... don't shoot three or five shot groups. A three shot MOA group looks bad and is a false indicator. Shoot a black dot about 1.25" in diameter so that you can't see your shots—don't use Shoot "n" See for this exercise. Be as consistent as you can be and shoot 10 or 15 rounds slowly. The barrel will still get hot but that's okay as long as you don't go crazy—I duno, count to 100 between shots. Ignore one or two flyers or shots you may have pulled (unless you pull three or four in a row in which case start over). Then visit your target.

You might be surprised, you might not. You may have a couple of shots opening your group up to 1.5 but look for the concentration. If your rifle will put 15 into an inch or just over you have a great rifle. It's fun to try.

-SS-

codyb1991
October 18, 2011, 08:47 PM
SS, that's a good idea. Should I move my targets out to 100 yards? The range here in town goes to 300 yards.

Sweet Shooter
October 19, 2011, 02:03 AM
I think 100 yards is a good indicator. I know it's not long range but it's as far as I personally need to shoot. I'm convinced there is a psychological effect of not being able to see the shots land on the paper. I've often shot 3 or 5 shot groups around an inch on white paper which through the scope look crappy but then when I visit the target it ain't so bad.

I used to shoot an inch at 50 yards and think it was great (and actually it was for the time). An inch or just over at 100 yards is more than practical for a hunting rifle. I know some guys who won't actually shoot groups at all. They shoot one shot at each 1 inch black dot. Some of those shots are marginal, a lot are dead center.

-SS-