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boostedtt91
October 14, 2011, 10:23 AM
Today i came across a remington mosin nagant at a local gun shop. I have never seen one of these before or ever heard anything about them. This has the remington stamp above the chamber and looks to be all original. There asking $350 for it. What are these worth? Im very interested in finding out more about these

tahunua001
October 14, 2011, 11:15 AM
there is no such thing as a remington mosin nagant. mosin nagant is not a model of gun but a manufacturer. the 91/30 rifle is manufactured but the companies mosin and nagant in russia. remington is a US company and unless they bought out mosin and nagant, there is no rifle that would have all three stamps on the receiver that is legitimate. I would stay away from it.

rickyrick
October 14, 2011, 11:25 AM
Huh??

roberto mervicini
October 14, 2011, 11:27 AM
Quote:there is no such thing as a remington mosin nagant. mosin nagant is not a model of gun but a manufacturer. the 91/30 rifle is manufactured but the companies mosin and nagant in russia. remington is a US company and unless they bought out mosin and nagant, there is no rifle that would have all three stamps on the receiver that is legitimate. I would stay away from it.

Sorry I think you've been misinformed.
Early before the russian revolution the Czar ordered a large quantities of MNagant from several american gun company, Remington was one of them.
Some have been delivered and some never made it .... the revolution got in the way, the regime change and the balance of the orders never made it.
________
roberto

HKFan9
October 14, 2011, 11:28 AM
Remington DID make the m91/30

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRareUSRemington.htm

emcon5
October 14, 2011, 11:32 AM
there is no such thing as a remington mosin nagant. mosin nagant is not a model of gun but a manufacturer. the 91/30 rifle is manufactured but the companies mosin and nagant in russia. remington is a US company and unless they bought out mosin and nagant, there is no rifle that would have all three stamps on the receiver that is legitimate. I would stay away from it.

That is quite possibly the single most incorrect statement I have seen on this forum.

Mosin Nagant 1891 is a model of rifle, named after the designers, and was made by Russian arsenals in Tula, Izhevsk, Sestroryetsk, and under contract in the US by Westinghouse, and yes, Remington.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/Mosinprimer.htm

mkk41
October 14, 2011, 11:37 AM
there is no such thing as a remington mosin nagant. mosin nagant is not a model of gun but a manufacturer. the 91/30 rifle is manufactured but the companies mosin and nagant in russia. remington is a US company and unless they bought out mosin and nagant, there is no rifle that would have all three stamps on the receiver that is legitimate. I would stay away from it.


:confused: Well , at least ya spelled everything right. Everything ya said was dead wrong though!

The Mosin–Nagant (Russian: Винтовка Мосина, ISO 9: Vintovka Mosina) is a bolt-action, internal magazine-fed, military rifle invented under the government commission by Russian and Belgium inventors, and used by the armed forces of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union and various other nations.


Initial design and trialsDuring the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78, Russian troops armed with mostly Berdan single-shot rifles engaged Turks with Winchester repeating rifles resulting in heavy casualties. This emphasized to commanders a need to modernize the Imperial army. The Russian Main Artillery Administration undertook the task of producing a magazine-fed, multi-round weapon in 1882. After failing to adequately modify the Berdan system to meet the requirements, a "Special Commission for the testing of Magazine fed Rifles" was formed to test new designs.

Sergei Ivanovich Mosin, a captain in the Imperial army, submitted his "3-line" calibre (.30 cal, 7.62 mm) rifle in 1889 alongside a 3.5-line design by Léon Nagant (a Belgian) and a 3-line design by captain Zinoviev. When trials concluded in 1891, the units which tested the rifles were split in their decision. The main disadvantages of Nagant's rifle were the following: more complicated mechanism, long and tiresome procedure of disassembling (which required special instruments - it was necessary to unscrew two screws). Mosin's rifle was mainly criticised for lower quality of manufacture and of materials used which resulted in a bit larger number of stoppages. The Commission voted 14 to 10 to approve Nagant's rifle. However, the head of the commission general Chagin insisted on subsequent trials held under the Commission's supervision during which Mosin's rifle showed its advantages, leading to its selection over the Nagant.




United States
U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916: Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin-Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated "U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916", these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France.
During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $7.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard .30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries.

tobnpr
October 14, 2011, 12:12 PM
I just love it when a poster is so adamant about their position and facts, and don't have even a clue about the subject they're addressing....amazing...

rickyrick
October 14, 2011, 12:46 PM
So is it worth buying as the OP asked?

TX Hunter
October 14, 2011, 01:03 PM
Yes the Rifle is worth what they are asking for it, it is much more rare than the Russian made 91 30 Rifles.
Its a piece of history, that needs to be in good hands.

emcon5
October 14, 2011, 01:07 PM
Looking at completed auctions on Gunbroker, they go for anywhere between $130 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250579138) and $2500 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239009262) Two of them sold for around $300.

On edit: the noes that sold for under $200 were both bubba-jobs, the two in the $300 range were both original. The $2500 one had a matching bayonet and US Ordinance markings.

kraigwy
October 14, 2011, 01:19 PM
At the end of WWI, the was concern the the Soviets would move in to take the stockpiles of arms of the defeated German Army which did in fact occur.

We (The United States) sent Army Units to confront and deal with these communist Russian Troops.

Be cause of supply problems our soldiers were armed with 91/30s, that I believe were made by Remington.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/bayonets/websize/US%20Troops%20with%20Mosins.jpg

boostedtt91
October 14, 2011, 01:24 PM
How rare are these if at all? Its the first one ive seen. I mean i cant really see spending $400 for a mosin unless it actually is quite rare

Outlaw81
October 14, 2011, 01:41 PM
There's nothing rare or special about a mosin nagant. It is only popular cause u can buy em for $100. They're not accurate and unless its inlaid with gold, I wouldn't touch it at $400. They're a mass-produced weapon of our enemy. For me, its in the same class as the sks, AK of any configuration, arisaka, and Argentinian Mauser. They were made to kill Americans so I give em all a big thumbs down.

kraigwy
October 14, 2011, 01:53 PM
They were made to kill Americans so I give em all a big thumbs down.

Ummmmmmmmm that's not quite true in the case of the Mosin. The Mosin was developed under the Czar before the turn of the centery (late 1800s). They were our allies in WWI & WWII, and were used to fight our common enemies (Germans). The Mosins were never made at a time period where the Rusians were fighting Americans. Sure they were used against us in WWI (see my above post), in Korea, Vietnam, and in our present wars. But in the case of Afghan so are the British Enfields being used against American Soldiers. Can't blame the British for that. Nor can we blame the Enfield or Mosin Rifles.

They are objects. They have no mind of their own. That's like giving a "thumbs down" to Smith & Wesson because some of their revolvers were used in crimes or 1911s because they were used by gansters in the 20 & 30s.

Personally I see these rifles in two ways:

1. A peice of history
2. A cheap means for not so well off shooters being able to compete in matches such as CMP GSM Surplus Military Rifle Matches.

As to the Value of Remington Mosins, of course they are going to cost more, its supply and demand, there are less Remingtons Mosins then Russian models, therefore they will cost more. Much like Winchester Garands bring more then Springfield Garands, or a better example is Singer 1911 vs a Colt 1911.

rickyrick
October 14, 2011, 02:09 PM
I imagined mine fought the Nazis, at least it sounds nice anyway

BlackJackID
October 14, 2011, 02:09 PM
There's nothing rare or special about a mosin nagant. It is only popular cause u can buy em for $100. They're not accurate

I don't usually do this, but let us riddle this statement with the bullets of fact...

There's nothing rare or special about a mosin nagant: OK, there are very many rarities in the world of the Mosin Nagant..otherwise there wouldnt be so many species to collect, nor so many collectors..as far as special, these rifles have such a wonderful and colorful history to them, and any one you pick up is likely to have seen battle through a couple of decades at some point in time, if this doesnt make a type of rifle special..Dunno what would...

It is only popular cause u can buy em for $100Also not true..they are popular because they are a GREAT firearm with a low price tag..I can think of a LOT of firearms that are or have in the recent past been under 100 dollars and arent popular at all..Raven, Jennings, bryco, etc. etc.

They're not accurate this one makes me chuckle just a bit...because really? where does this come from and what is ones definition of accurate..I certainly wouldnt be willing to prove this statement by standing on the 500 yard line....


Back to the OP, the Remington brand of Mosins has been one of my personal grails for a long time. I have only one Mosin, but have swore if I lay my eyes on a remington I am buying it. Simply because I havent seen one with my own eyes yet. the price he is asking is probably just about right, though I would be a little more comfortable in the 275-300 dollar range, and I bet he would go for that.

Outlaw81
October 14, 2011, 02:12 PM
I know the history of where ur coming from. Its funny u mentioned allies. Remember the expression, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? When our mutual enemy in Germany was routed, we became such. The primary weapon those sneaky Cossack sluts used was the mosin. I personally just don't endulge in collecting anything from any war, except pictures and lessons. As far as the accuracy goes, ANY military rifle is capable of 2moa. That is usually good enough to kill at 500. Accurate, no. I have dusted too many military rifles that couldn't hang even with a custom barrel and trigger work.

rickyrick
October 14, 2011, 02:20 PM
Each and every Mosin Nagant goes through a rigorous political rehabilitation program before being put up for sale in the U.S.





And I am so disappointed in the fact that I bought stock in the Mosin and Nagant companies :D That explains the low, low price

emcon5
October 14, 2011, 02:24 PM
Remember the expression, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? When our mutual enemy in Germany was routed, we became such. The primary weapon those sneaky Cossack sluts used was the mosin.

You are talking about the wrong war. This particular rifle were contracted by Imperial Russia for World War I.

BlackJackID
October 14, 2011, 02:31 PM
Oh, And one more cool thing you might appreciate Outlaw, being a marine and all....Back in Arkansas, a young man taught himself to hunt, shoot and stalk with the Mosin Nagant...The young Man grew into a Marine by the name of Gunny Carlos Hathcock...any rifle good enough for him, is good enough for me...

Semper Fi

ducote32
October 14, 2011, 02:34 PM
well for those of you that say they wouldn't buy any weapon used against us. Please don't buy anything made from 1900 until today. Any weapon on this earth, any brand, any model can be used against american troops and they are. Like a poster above said, the weapon is the object and the human points the object. This goes for the M1 Garands as well. They were used by the emeny.

I have a MN91/30 and I truly love it (My personal feelings only). I didn't buy it because it was cheap, I bought because at first it looked so ugly I thought nobody would ever give it a home. That thing grew on me and baoth my son and I go every 3 weeks and shoot it. Ours is very accurate now (figured out the front sight wire insulation trick)

I also have a M1 Garand on order at CMP and can't wait to bring them both out to the range. I love to collect and use weapons, and to think that my 1937 MN Tula is still going strong is a testiment to the design. Some of today's weapons loosen up and fall apart after 100 rounds, this MN is a work horse.

rant button-OFF-

Outlaw81
October 14, 2011, 03:27 PM
I can appreciate ur comments and more knowledgeable thoughts. Its just my own thoughts. In the end I guess whatever gets us to be greater sportsmen without breaking the bank is all that matters. Sorry where I was inaccurate on my statement. I just don't have much love for the stuff that may have been used by an opposing force. Y'all be good.

tahunua001
October 14, 2011, 04:10 PM
Sorry I think you've been misinformed.
Early before the russian revolution the Czar ordered a large quantities of MNagant from several american gun company, Remington was one of them.
Some have been delivered and some never made it .... the revolution got in the way, the regime change and the balance of the orders never made it.

really? I did not know that. in the eternal words of jack nicholson
well now, don't I feel like a F***ING jackass

sorry bout putting out a load of garbage

mkk41
October 14, 2011, 04:20 PM
Complete original Remington M-N's in good shape with good bores are worth probably twice what they're asking for that one. For as many as there were , they're fairly scarce now. With the millions of Russian-made rifles being imported , the American rifles have achieved Holy Grail status among collectors. The New England Westinghouse guns bring the same if not more.

Funny , at one time ya couldn't give one away.

Outlaw81
October 14, 2011, 05:05 PM
You still can't hardly give em away. I can't tell u how many times I've walked by a table at gun shows and they're selling for $75 apiece. There's so many of em out there that they just don't carry value. For the price of the rare ones, I don't see the advantage of buying one over an m-14 or garand.

rickyrick
October 14, 2011, 05:48 PM
For 75 bucks you get, at the least, a fun gun that will last 100 years that's a value in its self.

HKFan9
October 14, 2011, 05:59 PM
Right... but this one is made in the US... by Remington.. which makes it harder to find.. which to a collector not a shooter.. it is worth more.

There is nothing wrong with a m91/30, they are just old. If you find one with a good bore, they can be great shooters, for cheap.

emcon5
October 14, 2011, 06:06 PM
You still can't hardly give em away. I can't tell u how many times I've walked by a table at gun shows and they're selling for $75 apiece

You do not see tables of Mosin Nagant 1891s for $75 each.

You may see tables of Mosin Nagant 91/30s for $75 each. They are not the same thing.

stu925
October 14, 2011, 06:10 PM
You may see tables of Mosin Nagant 91/30s for $75 each. They are not the same thing.

I haven't seen one at that price in a long, long time. Cheapest I've seen them around here is $109 and they're usually priced at $129 or more. I'd love to find them for $75 around here, but I think those days are over.

Stu

Outlaw81
October 14, 2011, 06:18 PM
Guys I'm in se OK. Everything is cheap here. LOL. Even when I go to the bigger shows in Dallas the guns may jump to $100. But is there really a difference? I looked up a couple of the rem nagants. I think the only collectable factor would be the irony of a great weapons manufacturer producing an inferior product. Concerning Remington, its kinda like the 7400 series. Nominal accuracy, but a sound weapon all the same. Like a previous post said, at least u get something to shoot for less.

HKFan9
October 14, 2011, 06:29 PM
great weapons manufacturer producing an inferior product.

Inferior to what exactly?

I am fairly certain Vasily Zaitsev would argue differently.

Even our military honors what he did with his Mosin.

Colonel Donald Paquette of the US Sniper School was present and laid a wreath as a sign of respect to a legendary sniper. US Army News quoted Colonel Paquette: "Vasily Zaytsev is a legend and every USA sniper must memorize his tactics and methods. He is a legend in the sniper community. May he rest in peace."[

One day, Zaytsev’s commanding officer called him up and pointed at an enemy soldier in a window 800 meters away. Zaytsev took aim from his standard-issue Mosin-Nagant rifle, and with one shot, the soldier was down. In less than a few moments, two other German soldiers appeared in the window, checking their fallen officer. Vasily fired two more shots, and they were killed. For this, together with the Medal for Valor, Vasily was also awarded a sniper rifle.

CLC
October 14, 2011, 06:36 PM
I would get it in a heartbeat! My favorite MN is my NEW 91 and a Remington is next on the list. I go out of my way looking for M/N's and I haven't been able to find a Remingtons .

Outlaw81
October 14, 2011, 06:38 PM
Inferior to maybe an m40 or win70. I think that legendary sniper would agree that given the opportunity, he'd rather have one of those.

CLC
October 14, 2011, 06:39 PM
I would get it in a heartbeat! My favorite MN is my NEW 91 and a Remington is next on the list. I go out of my way looking for M/N's and I haven't been able to find a Remingtons .
Edit. Don't forget Simo hayha

icedog88
October 15, 2011, 06:03 AM
Used to own one of these back in the early '90s. Back when you could buy them in the dept store Rose's when I was stationed in VA. Can't remember if it was a 91/30 or 1891. What I do remember is I paid just under $100 then. LOVED this rifle (ex sold it :mad:). The only reason I don't have one now is it won't fit in my gun safe. I would absolutely buy a Remington manufacture if able for that price.
Not exactly sure what they would be inferior to back when they were manufactured. Built on the cheap, extremely rugged withstanding harsh Russian winters, easy to operate so that peasants(not professional soldiers) could use it with little or no training, could be used as a damn pike when out of ammo, and contrary to some people's idea that they weren't accurate, NOT! They were perfect for what they were designed for at the time they were made.
As for Gunny Hathcock, having personally known him and sitting at his proverbial knee, the man more than likely could have made a my daughter's Crickett .22 an effective killing weapon at 200 yds:D

sailskidrive
October 15, 2011, 07:04 AM
Don't forget at the time the Russian's fought the bloodiest war to date with the Japanese, long before they ever engaged the Kaiser. While their defeat at the hands of the Turks was humiliating, considering tsarist Russia was most likely the largest empire in the world at the time, I'm sure the Russo-Japanese war had a big impact or was at least a driving factor for the procurement of the vast quantities of the Mosin-Nagant.

I previous owned one. It was inexpensive to buy and cheap to shoot. It reminded me of the Enfield I bought as a young buck back in the early 90s - $69 out of a 50 year old storage crate at a gun show. Unfortunately the CIA had procured most of the surplus .303 for the Afghans in the mid eighties and the rest of it quickly dried up. However, with the Mosin, the surplus ammo seems to be endless; I suppose the former East Block has massive bunkers full of it that are slowly being dumped on the market???

A few days ago some one on here posted pics of a Mosin that he had modernized. I thought it looked great and reminded me of something I would do just to keep myself occupied...

mkk41
October 15, 2011, 08:05 AM
You still can't hardly give em away. I can't tell u how many times I've walked by a table at gun shows and they're selling for $75 apiece. There's so many of em out there that they just don't carry value. For the price of the rare ones, I don't see the advantage of buying one over an m-14 or garand.

Advantage? Over what?
Ya just don't get it. US made M-Ns are COLLECTORS ITEMS. Collectors don't care about how an old military rifle stacks up against anything. I'm looking at spending 3-5 grand for a 6mm Lee Navy or a 1941 Johnson. Could buy a few Garands for that. But I already have e few. And I've spent more on a nice Krag than my M-1A cost.

As for 'giving them away' I saw a NE Westinghouse that was rebarreled and restocked by the Finns bring $750 at auction.

A local gunshop has 2 Remingtons , rough , but all original with inspection stamps still visible on the stock. Bores are very rusty though. Still over $500 ea.

kraigwy
October 15, 2011, 09:08 AM
Ahhhh, MKK41, a man after my own heart.

Someone who understands the historical value of old military firearms.

Great post.

BlackJackID
October 15, 2011, 12:56 PM
I think the only collectable factor would be the irony of a great weapons manufacturer producing an inferior product

Wow...just...wow...

Not liking a firearm because of its history or usage is one thing, everybody is entitled to an opinion...

Stating that it is inferior is another thing..its baseless...Its rugged, reliable and as accurate as it needs to be plus some, for its intended purpose. It fires a very formidable cartridge that is in the same class as the venerable 30-06.

I personally don't like Glocks...that , by no stretch of the imagination makes them inferior..they, also, are rugged, reliable and well suited to their purpose. I cannnot argue with anyone on any of those points, and could even say my own dislike of them is almost ignorant.

Remington did not produce an inferior firearm, they produced a fine rifle for who was at the time an ally of the U.S., they contributed to the collectabilty and history of the rifle.

HKFan9
October 15, 2011, 02:03 PM
Inferior to maybe an m40 or win70. I think that legendary sniper would agree that given the opportunity, he'd rather have one of those.

Right... which are much later designs of a "sniper" rifle... just like I would much prefer a Cheytac or M24 or SR25 today.:confused:

As someone else stated we are talking about collectors items, not shipping off for war in the trenches.

But even still if it was early 1900's and we were in the trenches.. I would feel fine with a MN in my hands, they were designed for that, and worked for it, simple yet effective.

Having a personal bias against Russia does not make what they use or make inferior. I am pretty sure our NASA boys are appreciative of the space station they let us use No? Sounds like you've seen Red Dawn one too many times.... they are doing a remake... but I hear it will be the North Koreans this time who invade!:eek:

Outlaw81
October 15, 2011, 02:08 PM
Now y'all don't get ur panties in a wad!! LOL!! Y'all have a great Saturday!

mkk41
October 15, 2011, 03:05 PM
Remington did not produce an inferior firearm, they produced a fine rifle for who was at the time an ally of the U.S., they contributed to the collectabilty and history of the rifle.

True enough. The Remington rifles were of much higher standards of quality and craftsmanship than the native Russian products. Ironically , the Russian inspectors at the Remington factory tried to crawfish the deal by claiming the rifles were not up to quality standards agreed to.

http://mosinnagant.net/ussr/us-mosin-nagants.asp

Remington also made 8mm Lebel rifles for France. France was also our 'ally'!:rolleyes:

mkk41
October 16, 2011, 01:14 PM
those sneaky Cossack sluts used was the mosin

Wow , this thread is so full of , , , misinformation , it's not even funny.

The original Cossacks , who were mostly Ukrainian and even Polish , fought on the side of the Czar , against the Bolsheviks (Communists).

Inferior to maybe an m40 or win70.

And how many of them were around in WWI or WWII?

.300 Weatherby Mag
October 17, 2011, 12:20 AM
I own a Remington built M91 (Rem never made a 91/30 BTW)... I have hundreds of rounds through it... It's a highly accurate rifle (<1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yrds)... Function and fit and finish is excellent as is the nice piece of walnut furniture it has... I have never personally seen a Mosin as accurate as my example (including the Finnish M39)...

This rifle has shut the mouths of various non-believers in the Mosin Nagant... A good example was one of my uncles at my Grandfather's ranch in northern Wyoming.... He made a comment "bet you can't hit that target at 500 off the bench with that POS." Well I hit that 16" gong at 500 yards offhand... Shut him up for several days with that stunt...

BusGunner007
October 17, 2011, 12:53 AM
If I had the money for it, I'd buy it.