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View Full Version : The Rem. 700 and accuracy....


HShack
September 23, 2011, 09:07 PM
So, it seems one MUST use a Rem. 700 to achieve sub 1" groups. Every forum I read says so. Must be true.......

But I wonder. I bet something like the new Win. Mod. 70 [made in SC] will do just as well. And the barrel is already free floated.

What ya'll think?:confused:

BigBrute
September 23, 2011, 09:13 PM
You can definitely get sub MOA groups with a different platform, Remington just happens to produce a popular model. IIRC rifles such as the Weatherly Vanguard and several Savage rifles can get MOA or less.

As with most tools, the person using it determines its performance.

mrawesome22
September 23, 2011, 09:36 PM
Of course there are other models that will produce sub moa.

Do you really want to ask "What is the dirt cheapest rifle I can buy that will produce sub moa?"?

My reply would be keep saving for the 700:)

Flakbait
September 23, 2011, 10:23 PM
Most high end custom rifle makers use 700 or 700 type actions because of the simplicity of the action and bolt. The 700 action is a simple cylinder with another simple cylinder (the bolt) which rides inside. Easy to get everything to align perfectly at right angles without a lot of effort.

Most factory free floated model 700s are probably MOA or better.
The 700 SPS tactical rifle with a rubber Hogue non free floated stock usually shoots sub-MOA.

The Model 70 has a large claw extractor on its bolt which is a more complex design. The controlled feed design is inherently much more complicated than that of the simple push feed of the model 700 bolt with its small extractor.

Like everything in life, complexity costs more $$$ to achieve the same goal as something simpler.

Colorado Redneck
September 23, 2011, 10:23 PM
But I have Savage model 12 varmint in 22-250 and a Rem 700 204 Ruger. Wish I woulda bought another Savage instead of the Remmy. If for nothing else, for the "accutrigger." Just my simple minded opinion. The Savage shoots better groups, but it has about 3000 more rounds fired through it. The Remington shoots sub-MOA. Installed a Timney Trigger and that made some difference. A few hundred more rounds and some more work on a better hand load may make up the difference.

warbirdlover
September 23, 2011, 10:43 PM
Am very pleased with my new 700 SPS Buckmasters in .270 Win. Tack hammer and super nice looking. And the price was right.

infringement
September 24, 2011, 12:41 AM
I have a 700LH with a laminated glass bed stock, and sub 1" are feasible with 165's. I once had a Win 670 and it had no equal, unfortunately, it was traded because it was an RH.:(

Shane Tuttle
September 24, 2011, 05:29 AM
After several deletions, it's time to say, "Answer the OP's questions or just move on".

PawPaw
September 24, 2011, 05:55 AM
Advances in manufacturing and barrel making have made it much easier to shoot into that magic inch. All of the bolt guns I own are capable of making the inch, and none of them have heavy barrels. Standard, out of the box MOA rifles are simply everywhere.

Guns America magazine recently did an article where they compared five rifles, entry-level rifles, for accuracy. Sako, Tikka, Savage, Thompson-Center and CZ. Nothing fancy, just entry-level rifles (http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/minute-of-angle-moa-accuracy-out-of-the-box/) with a good scope and a proven marksman. All five shot into the magic inch and several did much better than that.

We may live in the golden age of rifle manufacturing. The magic inch has been captured by the rifle manufacturers. The unknown factor is the loose nut on the thick end of the stock.

jmr40
September 24, 2011, 06:05 AM
I've owned and shot hundreds of different rifles. Generally speaking the 700's have been a bit more accurate than other brands. But that certainly does not mean that every 700 will out shoot every other rifle.

As Paw Paw stated accuracy standards of rifles and ammo have gotten to the point where groups greater then 1" are the exception from most any new rifle. The new Winchesters are certainly good shooters and can hang with anyone.

Jimro
September 24, 2011, 07:11 AM
No, Remington 700's are no more accurate than Howa 1500, Savage 10/110, Sako TRG, Tikka, or Win70s.

The Win70 action is the basis for the FN SPR series of tactical rifles, and they shoot like a house on fire.

Heck, Zastava is still making a tactical rifle based on the m98 action (which still has a faster lock time than an AR-15).

So no, accuracy is not a product of a particular brand of action.

Jimro

Ike666
September 24, 2011, 07:49 AM
I shoot at Rem 700 PSS, Win Mod 70 (new, Stealth), and a Savage 10FCP Mac.

The best 5-shot group ever out of the Remmy was .287

The best ever 5-shot group out of the M70 was .415, but that was with the stock trigger (3+ lbs). I just changed to a Jard 14-oz and re-zeroed. But I expect it will print a smaller group now.

The best ever 5-shot group with the Savage was .372

All three rifles are essentially box-stock except the trigger on the Winchester. All three rifles are capable of better accuracy than I am. I kept missing a golf ball at 500 yards the other day - every shot was called on for windage and I dropped the shot just under it by about an inch. The spotter was excellent, the shooter (me) couldn't seem to get it through his head that he needed to raise the aim point. I'll try again.

I've had the Remington for about 16 years, the Winchester for a year and the Savage for 9 months. I like everyone of them.

Marquezj16
September 24, 2011, 07:57 AM
Pawpaw beat me to it.

While the Rem 700 is a great design capable of sub moa groups, it's not the only "action" in town.

All my rifles (weatherby, tikka, browning, M&P 15, and yes Rem 700) shoot sub moa when I do my part.

hooligan1
September 24, 2011, 07:58 AM
I have a Savage 110, .270 win, that will shoot 1/2 moa all day, as well as a Weatherby Vanguard, 7mm rem mag, that'll do the very same....... neither rifle cost more than 350.00 american;) have a nice day!:)

reloader-1
September 24, 2011, 08:05 AM
Someone posted the "cheapest rifle that will get sub-MOA" and recommended a Remington?

Not at the prices I have seen - save your money and get a Savage. All of mine shoot better than I can...

kaylorinhi
September 24, 2011, 08:20 AM
My stock Rem 700SPS in .308 will shoot close to half all day, but as the article states that is not craziness these days. To answer the OP's question, Even Super Man can not stop a bullet out of a Rem, we all know that.

codyb1991
September 24, 2011, 06:09 PM
I own a Remington 700 adl in .270 and a Winchester 670 in .30-06. Sometimes I have trouble seeing which one is more accurate. I've shot and owned 2 different savage rifles also, if you're trying to save money then you can't go wrong with a savage... but overall I recommended the Remington 700.

black mamba
September 24, 2011, 09:31 PM
I own three centerfire hunting rifles, all Mauser or Mauser variants. My old Sears J.C. Higgins Mauser 30/06 Spfd. has a very thin barrel, slow lock time, stock busted clean through at the wrist but repaired with dowels and Acraglas. The original trigger and safety were replaced 15 years ago with updated but inexpensive parts. My handload of 165 gr. Corelokts and A2520 powder shoots 3 shots into a half inch or less at 100 yds. all the time.

My medium rifle, a custom Interarms Mauser in 35 Whelen AI shoots everything into little groups. Even my large bore Model 70 in 416 Rem. Mag. shoots 1" 3-shot groups.

I don't think the action is the major factor in accuracy. A good barrel, squarely fitted to the receiver is the main thing. Things like lock time make differences in the thousandths, not in tenths of an inch.

From anecdotal evidence, I would say the Remington 700 and the newer Savage rifles are the most accurate OOTB factory rifles, but I wouldn't keep a rifle that wouldn't shoot minute of angle with decently loaded ammo.

ZeroJunk
September 24, 2011, 09:50 PM
Friend of mine bought a little Sako 7MM-08 and he shot some groups a little less than 1/2 inch with it straight out of the box.

I had a Conn. manufactured Win Model 70 in 300 Wby that I shot some groups a little over 1/2 inch with.

The Rem 700 and the new Savages seem to get the nod in forums and print for most accurate out of the box, but plenty of others are quite accurate as well.

HKFan9
September 25, 2011, 01:57 AM
Like someone else said.. it is more about the person pulling the trigger than it is the gun. Any well made rifle of the day.. with GOOD ammo, and a well made scope, is more than capable of it.

rc
September 26, 2011, 12:01 PM
Big Green is great at marketing. Not so great at putting out only high quality rifles. Remington has put out a lot of junk too. Their ammo is spotty in quality and you can expect hunting accuracy and nothing more out of a box stock unmodified rifle. My friend bought a Model 7 in 308 with the synthetic stock and stainless fluted barrel. He was so ****** off when we found my box stock ruger 308 model 77 outshot his Remington and he wanted to sell it. Getting right down to the point, my gun has a laminate stock and his had a plastic stock with a lot of flex. After some arm twisting he found a great price on a blow out walnut stock and had the gun restocked and bedded. Now it shoots pretty darn well. Maybe better than my ruger but we aren't hardcore sub MOA bench shooters. In most cases it's the shooter that is the limiting factor rather than the hardware but sometimes there are exceptions. In general pretty much any stock centerfire will put 5 shots inside 3 inches at 100 yards. It's the tweeking that gets them to regularly shoot sub 1" with some dare I say "exceptions" that just flat out shoot anything you feed them from day 1. In a basic production rifle it's hit and miss unless you get into high dollar guns that people spend a lot of time crafting. That's why the military hand builds sniper weapons checking everything from the squareness of the receiver to the bedding and everything in between. People know how to make a Remington 700 shoot well. Step one, throw away everything Remington except the action.................:) I personally prefer the mauser type action with a claw, but there are a lot of good push feeds out there.

Oh, one other thing. I've found that with run of the mill production rifles sometimes they need to get shot.... a lot before the barrels smooth out and they start to group well. Hand lapping the bore is one of the things you tend to get with a more expensive gun. You have to pay for performance right out of the box.

warbirdlover
September 26, 2011, 01:29 PM
Big Green is great at marketing. Not so great at putting out only high quality rifles. Remington has put out a lot of junk too. Their ammo is spotty in quality and you can expect hunting accuracy and nothing more out of a box stock unmodified rifle. My friend bought a Model 7 in 308 with the synthetic stock and stainless fluted barrel. He was so ****** off when we found my box stock ruger 308 model 77 outshot his Remington and he wanted to sell it. Getting right down to the point, my gun has a laminate stock and his had a plastic stock with a lot of flex. After some arm twisting he found a great price on a blow out walnut stock and had the gun restocked and bedded. Now it shoots pretty darn well. Maybe better than my ruger but we aren't hardcore sub MOA bench shooters. In most cases it's the shooter that is the limiting factor rather than the hardware but sometimes there are exceptions. In general pretty much any stock centerfire will put 5 shots inside 3 inches at 100 yards. It's the tweeking that gets them to regularly shoot sub 1" with some dare I say "exceptions" that just flat out shoot anything you feed them from day 1. In a basic production rifle it's hit and miss unless you get into high dollar guns that people spend a lot of time crafting. That's why the military hand builds sniper weapons checking everything from the squareness of the receiver to the bedding and everything in between. People know how to make a Remington 700 shoot well. Step one, throw away everything Remington except the action................. I personally prefer the mauser type action with a claw, but there are a lot of good push feeds out there.

Oh, one other thing. I've found that with run of the mill production rifles sometimes they need to get shot.... a lot before the barrels smooth out and they start to group well. Hand lapping the bore is one of the things you tend to get with a more expensive gun. You have to pay for performance right out of the box.

rc

I just bought a 700 SPS Buckmasters in .270 Win. I plunked my scope on it and it shoots 1/2"-3/4" groups at 100 yards if I do my part. It's a beautiful looking rifle and the camo stock is nice. And it was under $500.

I thought of getting a Savage with the accutrigger and accustock but they are now getting more money for them then for a Rem 700. I also looked at Tikka's, Howa's, TC's, etc and none were as "eye pleasing" to me as the 700. And my other rifle (that shoots cloverleaf groups) is my Ruger M77 Mk II all weather SS in .300 Win Mag. Love both these rifles.

Slamfire
September 26, 2011, 04:56 PM
You don’t have to have a M700 to shoot sub MOA. Some people are using Bernard actions to win F Class National Championships and set national F Class Records.

Which is what a bud of mine does with his Bernard.

See how thick the sidewalls. The metal fit is perfect.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Boltinaction.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/BernadFaceActionDSCN0781faceofactio.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/BoltFaceBerandActionDSCN0801.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Boltoveractioncut.jpg

HKFan9
September 26, 2011, 05:07 PM
RC.... the Model 7 is a small light weight carbine type rifle... I wouldn't really expect it to shoot Sub-Moa. It will kill a dear... and be pleasant to carry around all day, which is what it's meant for.

I like Rugers as well, but generally both will shoot about the same with the same booger hook on the trigger.

My 700P LTR in 6.8SPC will print 1 hole at 100 yards with hand loads, with factory ammo it will still shoot sub MOA all day.

One has to have realistic goals for the rifle in question. Box stock rifles CAN be sub-moa today... but it doesn't mean they should all be expected to be.

I have a Ruger .22 Hornet that shot like crap with hand loads and factory loads.. needless to say I sold it off.

cw308
October 2, 2011, 09:11 AM
I have a Rem 700 LTR 308 20" brl. It is a very accurate rifle out to 500 yards do to 20" brl. Some days I shoot Good And some days not so good,but the 700 is always on. I have shot 1 hole 3 shot groups at 100 yards 1/2 groups at 200 yards & 2'' groups on both.The gun in most cases will shoot better than us. Do some reading make your mind up and do alot of shooting, the more you shoot you will see you can only blame yourself and conditions. Pick well and have fun.

svt40
October 2, 2011, 09:42 AM
I have a 223 stainless SPS Rem 700 and its no more accurtae than the Savage 110 varmit in 223. Both shoot MOA with right bullets&load. 300-400yard varmit rifles.

xwe666
October 2, 2011, 04:04 PM
I got 3 of the new mod 70,two browning (x-bolt and blr) and a vanguard and they are close or better than 1 moa with the right load.