View Full Version : Deja Vu 670
September 17, 2011, 10:14 PM
As a few of you know I lost a loved one several years ago to bore cancer, still have Ol' Ugly around here somewhere but she'll never fire another shot, may she rest in peace. :(
Today I was strolling thru Cabelas for no apparent reason and there sits Ol' Ugly's twin sister, and she's even uglier! :eek: For those of you unfamiliar with Winchester 670's they're a cheaper version of the beloved Model 70 with matte blue, birch stock and unpolished or turned bolt. They quit making them almost 40 years ago. What most folks don't know is that these rifles typically shoot very well, Ol' Ugly was a better shooter than any of the three rifles I bought to replace her; including a Weatherby Vanguard, a Ruger 77, and a Winchester Super Grade. Even Uglier has a sweet trigger, bolt action is slick, bolt face is square and the lugs are engaging correctly. Bore is badly fouled, the birch stock is badly worn and those sights need to go but other than that I'm pretty pumped. Scope is a question mark, never heard of a Simmons Prohunter but I'll give it a try. Ol' Ugly has an extra stock, I'm sure she won't mind donating the synthetic one to the cause.
September 18, 2011, 12:46 PM
Synthetic stock didn't fit, may grind out the old bedding material and re-bed. Put it in Ol' Ugly's original birch stock for now. It was my first stock refinishing project and it looks pretty good, if I do say so myself. A bit of forend pressure but other than that a perfect fit. Bore is so badly fouled I just checked to make sure I had an extra can of Wipe-Out on the shelf.:eek: Seems this old gun has been carried a bit over the last 40 years, fired little but hasn't been properly cleaned in at least 100 rounds, maybe longer. Not sure Even Uglier is going to make it to the range today.:(
September 18, 2011, 01:41 PM
You have me confused (not too hard to do) is that a picture of O'ld Ugly or of Even Uglier??
I love that stock and rifle in the picture. If that's O'ld Ugly then just rebarrel the rifle and quit screwing around, If it's Even Ulgier then make that stock work, it looks like a real keeper.
September 18, 2011, 03:01 PM
Sorry Jim, easily confused myself. That's Even Uglier in the original pic, just put Ol' Ugly back together so she could continue her retirement. Did some stock inletting on Ol' Ugly's original birch stock and had to apply a bit of Tru-Oil to the barrel channel so Even Uglier is back in her original stock to keep all the parts together while the finish dries and I get more fouling out of her bore.
Now I'm confused, maybe a few pics will help. First is Ol' Ugly, second is her original (refinished) stock drying after a bit of inletting (and touch-up) and third is another shot of Even Uglier with a somewhat better view of some odd discoloration in her stock. It looks better in the pics.
I've looked into a new barrel for Ol' Ugly but it's just not cost effective.:( A bit of rifling let go about 2-3 inches from the muzzle and turned a .3" rifle into a 3" rifle. Even Uglier is coming together nicely and I've decided to go with the birch stock and maybe even the open sights, at least until I find out how she shoots.
All kidding aside I like the way Even Uglier looks and she feels better than any rifle I've picked up in awhile. Ol' Ugly helped me learn how to reload, shot my first deer, (and quite a few after that) and was truly a joy to hunt with and shoot. She's fired thousands of rounds while I learned the finer points of reloading, ridden many a mile cased up in the back of a pickup on dozens of hunting trips and spent many hundreds of hours in the field with me as well.
I have several pretty rifles but Ol' Ugly was a better rifle than most guys will be lucky enough to have. Even Uglier has some big shoes to fill.
September 18, 2011, 05:28 PM
I've looked into a new barrel for Ol' Ugly but it's just not cost effective. A bit of rifling let go about 2-3 inches from the muzzle and turned a .3" rifle into a 3" rifle.
Looks like a 24 inch barrel, that's an easy fix, cut 2-3 inches and recrown the barrel, would make a good backup/truck gun. That is great work you did on that stock, beautiful.
September 18, 2011, 08:57 PM
I've considered cutting it down but it's 22" now, damage is about 2-3" in and I'm not sure how far back it actually goes. I can feel a damaged area starting about 2" in and going back a little over an inch. 18" would be a mighty short .30-06 barrel. Maybe someday.
Thanks, stock looks even better without the glare. .45-70 cases look better now too. Found time to load them this afternoon.:)
September 19, 2011, 12:40 PM
I got a good laugh from your post.. Calling your guns Ol Ugly and Even Uglier is classic. And, best I can tell, you are doing it with a strait face! Funny stuff.
Now for the post itself, isn't the main reason we spend all this money on guns is for fun? Sounds like this a purchase you are really happy with. And we all need a project or two to keep us busy, right? ;)
September 24, 2011, 08:47 PM
Yes, ndking, I like to have a little fun with my projects and my posts now and then. I got Even Uglier all fixed up in Ol'Ugly's old birch stock with only minor modifications.
Shot her today and she likes the loads I developed for my primary rifle, shot quite well, actually. :D Dropped her off to get the recoil lug glass-bedded just to tighten things up a bit more. Even Uglier's a keeper, may even keep that cheap glass on there for awhile.
Here's how she looks today, cleaned up pretty nice for a 40 yr old cheap beater rifle. ;)
September 24, 2011, 09:42 PM
Buy an Adams & Bennett barrel from Midway, have it threaded and chambered, blued, and put Ol Ugly back to work.
September 24, 2011, 10:01 PM
Well, I've always liked the plain-jane versions of top-drawer rifles. They are great using rifles and they always came with something I absolutely require on any rifle- iron sights.
We've got an old 78 Remington (yellow-label 700) 30-06 here that has killed a pile of deer. I traded into it about 20 years and despite the fact that it had no recoil pad, it never bothered me to shoot it. It fit that well. Peg decided she liked it, so I cut it down to fit her with the heaviest Decelerator pad installed. It's got an old 4X Bushnell on it that I would have changed out long ago, but she likes it fine so I've left it alone. We shoot it 5-6 times every fall to confirm zero, then go to killing deer with it.
Short-stocked, it kicks the snot out of me now. It's also not the most accurate bolt action I've ever had, but that's OK. I can count on it to flatten anything inside 300 yards, on the first shot.
September 24, 2011, 11:34 PM
Every 670 owner I meet has had a good experience with the rifle, a gunsmith I knew said the barrel was a bit heavier than a 70 in the chamber and a bit forward from there but I haven't measured it. I put a good recoil pad on Ol' Ugly years ago and it worked well with Even Uglier today.
Thought pretty hard about a Shilen barrel and a target stock for Ol' Ugly, Scorch. Just didn't make sense. Adams & Bennett seems like a good alternative, they're not match grade but they're quite likely better than factory. Mebbe the A&B barrel and a Boyd gunstock would get Ol' Ugly back in the game. Would probably have to quit calling her Ol' Ugly. ;)
September 25, 2011, 01:02 AM
Otter’s Foul Out system used to get rave reviews from some of the gun magazines.
If you know a gunsmith that has one it might worthwhile to really get the bore clean.
The Foul Out system seems too expensive for a regular shooter to buy but it’s exactly the kind of thing I think a club should buy for its members to use on occasion.
September 25, 2011, 08:37 AM
I've been using Wipe-Out for awhile now, the range I call my "home away from home" has used it to clean awful fouling out of dozens of customers' guns. I've never seen anything like it, they haven't either. I got the bore nice and clean and it shoots well clean, only needs one fouling shot, just like Ol' Ugly.
It's a foaming cleaner, for normal copper fouling just fill the bore with it and let it sit overnight. Run 2-3 patches thru and you're done. :D I always repeat the process once but the second time yields very little copper if any. For heavy fouling I brush it a bit with a nylon brush before running patches thru it. After cleaning I protect the bore with Break-Free.
September 27, 2011, 11:56 AM
I can vouch for just how accurate a 670 can be. The one we have sure is. Due to my wife not hunting deer anymore I recently put it up for sale and have it at a price that I have doubts that it lingers very long. I too hear nothing but good things about the 670.
October 4, 2011, 08:17 AM
The 670 in .30-06 was my first rifle, the stock was cracked right underneath the bolt handle and needed a good bath. After I got it all fixed up it shot like a champ. Win 670 is a close second favorite to Rem 700.
October 4, 2011, 10:32 AM
I had a 670 in 22-250 many moons ago , my brother used to kill deer with it regularly shooting 63 Gr. semi pointed Sierras . I had other guns he could have used but he liked that one , it was a tackdriver ! Swapped it off long ago , for what I don't remember .
June 16, 2013, 03:51 PM
Took Even Uglier to the range yesterday, she was sporting a new Redfield Revolution 3-9X40 scope and some rings I found in a parts box. I think they may have come off Ol' Ugly. Buddy of mine was spotting for me and the first three shots I fired after sighting her in were well inside of an inch! :eek: I let her cool off while I was shooting a purtier gun and once she cooled off the ol' girl did it again! She was shooting a load that I built up for another rifle, may just have to load up a recipe Ol' Ugly liked and see what this ol' girl can do. Even Uglier is quite likely the most accurate rifle I own, makes her a little easier to look at.;)
Ol' Ugly is likely to come out of retirement soon. I've decided to have her rebored to 35 Whelen and will likely fit her with a new walnut stock. All I'll need then is a Leupold scope and she'll be ready to go hunting again.
June 16, 2013, 03:58 PM
get some hoppes copper remover for the barrel and just take some fine(1000grit or higher) sand paper to the stock and give it a few coats of linseed oil(my answer to everything) and call her good. good find, how ugler shoots better than ole ugly.
if she means that much to you you could also swap barrels and rechamber uglier and put ol ugly back into service.
June 16, 2013, 08:05 PM
Those old push feed Winchesters are some pretty darn good rifles. I wouldn't just retire one and let it sit either, breath new life into that old friend. Good choice going to a Whelen with a rebore, who are you using? JES (http://www.35caliber.com/2.html) is pretty reasonable and I've thought of using them to punch out my .338-06 to a .375 or .400 Whelen.
June 16, 2013, 08:05 PM
Thanks, Tahunua, already put Ol' Ugly's original stock on Even Uglier. It needed (and got) a little Birchwood Casey touch-up. Helped her appearance some, just an old birch stock but it fits me. Even Uglier has a nice, clean bore. No worries there.
Just ordered a Boyd walnut stock for Ol' Ugly, should be here by the time she gets back from being rebored.
June 16, 2013, 08:15 PM
Taylorce1, you've been reading my mail! That's exactly where she's headed. Yes, they are good old rifles and I have no issues at all with the push feed action.
Even Uglier was indeed bought to get a young hunter started, just having trouble getting him motivated. Gun's been sitting in a friend's shop for almost two years waiting for him to show some interest. He talks a good game but he won't even put out the effort to get his Hunter Safety Cert. He's got another brand-new baby so I'll cut him a little slack.
3, 4, or 5 groove, Taylorce1?
June 17, 2013, 04:30 AM
I like odd numbers when it comes to lands and grooves, I'd go with a three groove 1:12 twist. I have two .338-06 rifles and I went with a three groove barrel on the newest one, couldn't be happier with it.
June 18, 2013, 08:43 PM
Talked to Jesse today, barrelled action headed to the post office tomorrow. He said a 1:14 will stabilize anything from 150 to 300 grain bullets. Dies will be here tomorrow, already have a Ranch Dog 359-190 mould that will do for starters. Been reading articles (Paco Kelly, et al) about 280 grain pills but then I remember that I hunt in TX, no need for a load that will flatten a moose, big bear or dangerous game.
July 3, 2013, 01:16 PM
Shot Even Uglier a few weeks ago, as posted above. Checked my notes and found some interesting stuff, Even Uglier is eerliy very much like Ol' Ugly. With a new Redfield scope and the birch stock borrowed from Ol' Ugly she sighted in easily and settled in to fire a nice sub-moa group with rounds tailored for my Super Grade. I let her cool off and she did it again! :D Not really bragging size groups but very capable for hunting. She's better than most of my rifles, not near as fussy either.
Even Uglier even acted like Ol' Ugly, first shot from a clean (slightly wet) bore about 1/2" high and a hair to the right. Second and subsequent shots land right where I want them. Odd. Old girl doesn't shift impact when she heats up either, another trait of Ol' Ugly. I loaded up some of Ol' Ugly's pet loads today and seated them out a little (.015") long, just like Ol' Ugly liked them. Tried one in Even Uglier and sure enough, they just kiss the lands.
Going to the range Sunday, this could be interesting.
July 20, 2013, 10:19 PM
Just joined the forum today, July 20, 2013 and read your (TXGunNut) September 17, 2011 post about two 670s you named Ugly and Uglier. I too picked up an old 670 in .30-06 a couple of years ago and ironically as it may sound, I also named it Ugly. The name just seemed to fit. Like yours, mine will shoot the eyes out of a gnat (almost) at 100 yards. I've only had the trigger adjusted to 3 lbs. with everything else remaining original. It is indeed ugly, but Ugly will shoot.
July 21, 2013, 05:36 PM
Tex, you're gonna love that Whelen. I have three, a Ruger M77, Remington M700 Classic and a custom built on an Oberndorf Mauser. The custon has a 1 in 14" twist and the others 1 in 16". (UGH!) Still all three will stabilize 250 gr. bullets without any problem.
You did mention Paco kelly's article and good luck evr finding that mold (Lyman #3589 or #358009 to use the new number.) It's been discontinued for years. I found one in a gun shop's junk box for $25 and that mold bring in three figure paychecks on E-bay. Mine does have a problem in that the gas check shank it too small. Over on Cast Boolits some of us did a group buy from David Mos fffor a #3589 clone we called 3589I, the "I" for improved. We had him put a small flat on the nose for a bit more potential thump.
Paco's load data seems to be a bit on the very warm side but his 53.0 gr./250 gr. bullet load has proved safe in my three rifles. Yes, I did drop back and work up. My pet load though for the custom mauser is 60.4 r. of Re15 and the 225 gr. barned TSX> CAUTION: Drop back at lest two full grand=s and work up. The load is safe in the Mauser but is too hot for the Ruger and Remington. :( Accuracy run from .50" to .75" depending on how well I'm shooting that day. I've only shot two elk with that load and both dropped on the spot, one in very spectacular fashion.
I'll have to epeat myself. You're gonna love that Whelen.
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