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BUFF
August 16, 2011, 08:02 PM
Ok, somebody may get their feelings hurt.

What is this love affair with the Mosin Nagant? I've never heard of this rifle untill I started reading TFL. Do some of you have a truckload of these you're trying to get rid of? This thing looks like it was made in high school shop class yet there is some of you that are fanatical about this POS that was made by Communist heathens. I bet if I did a search on TFL, I'd get at least a hundred references to it. Here's how it usually goes...

'Novice Hunter'- "Hi I need a cheap rifle for my first hunt...."
'Responder'- "Get yourself a Mosin Nagant. They're awesome"

NO! Don't do this. If you want something cheap that kills, make a trip to your local pawn shop. Plenty of guys on hard times trying to pay the bills selling Grandpappy's lever gun.

'Paper Puncher'- "Hi I need a rifle for making holes in paper..."
'Responder'- "Get yourself a Mosin Nagant. They're awesome.

NO! If you want a nice gun for that, save your money and get something you won't look like a complete tool shooting. I'm not talking you have to get something that looks right out of STAR WARS. But a decent rifle. We're trying to promote the hobby. Don't do it with something that Ivan whittled out of Russian Pine and old tractor parts. If you just want to make noise and holes in paper, I'd rather you get a Red Rider BB gun and a box of firecrackers.

I'm surprised I haven't heard this one yet....

'Worried Homeowner'-" I need something for home defense..."
'Responder'- " Get a Mosin Nagant. They're awesome"

Why do seemingly sensible people suggest this abomination?

There are way better rifles out there that can be had. Please stop with the Mosin Nagant love fest.

Rant over...Let's get it on...Ding! Ding!

chucky222
August 16, 2011, 08:13 PM
Sounds like you could be looking for an anger outlet. My ex did too.

Calm down bro, life is too short...

Hog Red
August 16, 2011, 08:16 PM
that's nothing, i usually recommend it for concealed carry as well.
if u dont like them it doesn't bother me, everyone's got to be a hater on something. i have 3 and none of mine are very accurate but i dont care, they're fun and cheap to shoot. it's a great way for someone to get started collecting milsurps on a budget.

Coach Z
August 16, 2011, 08:18 PM
Did a mosin run over your dog? ;) Sorry couldn't resist..


I get it though, but the same can be said of the ar platform and a few other "go to" guns. Lots of guys here I'm sure are tired of hearing about the glory of the glock etc etc

chack
August 16, 2011, 08:21 PM
1) they're cheap
2) they're extremely tough and idiot proof
3) they're cheap
4) they're so ugly they look cool
5) they're cheap
6) they've been used to fight against some of the best armies in the world since 1891
7) they're cheap
8) They were made by the Russians, the French, the Czechs, the Belgians, USA, Finland (more or less), Chinese, Romanians, Hungarians, Polish, and probably others.
9) They are cheap
10) They were used by both sides of the Soviet revolution, red/white civil war, US occupation of Siberia, polish/russian war, Finnish/russian winter war, and continuation war.
11) they're cheap
12) they range from reasonably accurate to very accurate

In addition to all that, they're really cheap

I own the ones in bold above

jimbob86
August 16, 2011, 08:21 PM
Settle down, Francis!


If you are careful, you can get a decent shooting rifle for less than $100. What's to hate about that? They work, and keep working in crappy conditions when more expensive, complicated designs call it quits.

brmfan
August 16, 2011, 08:25 PM
I'd take a rock solid $100 Mosin any day over a $400 sequined covered you-know-what from a pawn shop.

Ozzieman
August 16, 2011, 08:29 PM
Rant over...Let's get it on...Ding! Ding!


I own a dumb slow 03-A3, antique M1 Grand, low powered Enfield, 2 crappy plastic AR’s, useless junk MP-5 and a Chinese AK made from beer cans and rice.
I HATE THEM ALL.
I have always wanted a Mosin Nagant,, I think you have talked me into it with your high level logic.
Funny how the highest number of sniper kills made by one man in WW2 was with one.

BUFF
August 16, 2011, 08:34 PM
Glad I could help entertain:)

Yea...maybe over the top.;)

Just checking the pulse.

only1najeep
August 16, 2011, 08:43 PM
I sure wish that I could find one local for $100. That way I could come up with my own opinion on how great/crappy they are on my own.

warbirdlover
August 16, 2011, 08:53 PM
I never heard of them until this forum. Always was familiar with the Enfields, Garands, Brownings, Springfields, Mausers, Arisakis etc.

But whatever turns your crank is fine with me.

If I was a collector I'd like to have one of each listed above and one of those Russian fully autos they all were issued at the end of WWII when they entered Berlin. I think the North Koreans used them in the Korean war also. Those were cool.

FrosSsT
August 16, 2011, 08:58 PM
A LOT of people own these things, and I think the main (and sometimes only) reason they do is because they are a dime a dozen. Maybe if you went out and bought one and shot it a few times youd begin to like it:D

Chris_B
August 16, 2011, 09:05 PM
They are great historical rifles. I enjoy them on that level, and I've fired a friend's sniper model, with a vintage scope

He's extremely accurate with it. I was hitting the paper at 100 yards and that was it. The action is not smooth, the rifle feels awkward, and the trigger acts as if it is hinged somewhere above the bolt. All proof of superior Soviet manhood, tovarich

Great rifle. I don't need to own one, I'd rather have a Mauser 1898

seanc
August 16, 2011, 09:07 PM
chack +10

My last trip to the FFL toy store, I saw a crate of them for $125 each. I laughed to myself thinking how expensive they are now :). Mines been Bubba'd real good (and I'm not done yet). When I go to the range, it's the gun that always has a line waiting to shoot. Mines minute of Hun/Kraut/Finn and I've just about given up reloading for her. She seems to shoot the bulk ammo just as well as my fine crafted rounds that match her bore exactly. The best way to teach someone not to flinch is to have them go from the Nagant to my Marlin 60. That alone makes her worth every penny.

Norrick
August 16, 2011, 09:16 PM
You shoulda got a K31.

bobn
August 16, 2011, 09:27 PM
life is too short to waste it on a lot of things. ugly, stupid, awkward, etc, things.....bobn

twins
August 16, 2011, 09:36 PM
Ok, somebody may get their feelings hurt.
Buff,
The next time someone is aiming a Mosin at the range, I would duck if I were you. Those tractor-parts Mosins are very inaccurate and could accidentally misfire in your direction.

I equate the M/N in the gun world to the VW Beetle in the automobile world. Both does what it was intended to do, easy to maintain, and they are cheap.

Do you rant at Beetle owners on a car forum Buff?

You can come out of the closet now and be a proud M/N owner Buff. 15 million+ M/N guns made, hard to argue those numbers.

zombieslayer
August 16, 2011, 09:40 PM
My M39 officially has had its heart broken...:eek:

the rifleer
August 16, 2011, 09:54 PM
If you have to outlet your anger… GET A MOSIN, THEY'RE AWSOME!!!!

chack
August 16, 2011, 10:02 PM
plus the ammo is real cheap too!

tobnpr
August 16, 2011, 10:18 PM
Damn, man.... give it a rest...
There's a reason for all the hype.
I'm not a milsurp collector...but, I am interested in seeing what these old actions can do with some "modernization"...

So, I bought two, re-arsenaled 91/30's. One, kept fully original. The other, fully accurized in an aftermarket stock with a Timney trigger and Vortex Viper glass. Shoots 2-1/2" groups at 200 meters with SMK handloads.

Plus, I just love the solid thumping it gives my shoulder.

Why don't you just drop the $79 and find out for yourself?

trg42wraglefragle
August 16, 2011, 10:35 PM
I get what your saying BUFF,
the only reason they're so popular is the fact they're cheap and so much more readily available than other milsurp guns and cheap ammo.

Although I think ill probably get one very soon, I would much prefer a Lee Enfield No4 or a K98 but the Mosins are just so cheap.

trg42wraglefragle
August 16, 2011, 10:37 PM
Why someone would spend the time and money on completely customizing one is far beyond me though. :confused:

Crankylove
August 16, 2011, 10:37 PM
You all forgot the best thing about a Mosin...........the bayonet can also do double duty as a hot dog/marshmellow roaster.

budd
August 16, 2011, 11:12 PM
Speaking about the Mosin and its beyonets. couple of months ago I was at the range and there was a guy shooting a Mosin and he was not happy that he could not get the rifle to shoot any tighter than 6-8 inch and shot 4 + inches high at 100yds groups. He was moaning and groning about it being a waist of money to have gotten the Mosin. Well he and I got to talking and I shot his Mosin and he shot my Mauser and Enfield, and we talked some more about his Mosin. I remembered something I read in the American Rifleman Magazine when I was a young teenager about the Mosin (in the early 60's), that the Mosin Nagnant with the long barrels would shoot better with the beyonet attached and I mentioned that to him. Well just recently I saw him at the range and he was shooting the same Mosin and some how got a socket bayonet for the rifle and was shoot with the beyonet mounted on the end of the barrel. He said that I remembered right, it did shoot better with the beyonet attached, but getting the beyonet was almost as expensive as what he paid for the rifle it self.

J. Budd

Cornhusker77
August 16, 2011, 11:18 PM
I like them because of the history.
Nope, they aren't the best gun out there, but, (although I don't know what it is), only one gun can be the best.
I also like them because they make a big boom, the ammo is cheap, they throw a nice fireball, and if you ran out of ammo, you could probably beat a medium sized bear to death with it.
I won't be using mine for deer hunting, home defense or concealed carry, but I will drag it out of the cabinet just to hear someone say "What the......?";)

M.O.A.
August 16, 2011, 11:35 PM
Hay hay now you really need to give credit to the M/N they can be a really fine rifle if you have it melted down and forged into a savage or a rem 700. Plus you could have the stock tund into a hole bunch of tooth picks :D:D

Pixuma
August 16, 2011, 11:43 PM
Next rifle i buy is gonna be a 91/30 :P

Why?


Cheap to buy
Cheap to shoot
It shoots a 7.62
I LOVE a project! I would get more satisfaction from spending $1000 on accurizing a mosin than i would from spending $1000 on some out of the box tack driver.

.300 Weatherby Mag
August 16, 2011, 11:54 PM
This thing looks like it was made in high school shop class yet there is some of you that are fanatical about this POS that was made by Communist heathens.

Mine says "Remington 1918" on it... :D ;) And it was not made by Commies

MidwestRookie
August 17, 2011, 12:43 AM
I finally ordered one from Bud's on sunday..your post amuses me.

I'll keep it G rated tho..

:cool:

raftman
August 17, 2011, 12:49 AM
^ Eh, don't worry about it, the Mosin is a better rifle than BUFF is a thinker.

Edward429451
August 17, 2011, 01:05 AM
Perhaps, but my friend does look like a tool shooting his M/N. :D

Sport45
August 17, 2011, 01:38 AM
A must-read for anyone who owns a Mosin, or is thinking about it....

Humorous Comparison of AK47, AR15, and Mosin (http://mouseguns.com/compare.htm)

sigshepardo
August 17, 2011, 01:41 AM
I bought my first mosin when I was 13. It is a good starting gun. Low cost and fun. I'm not sure of the moron who recommended it for home defense though. I mean come on its so darn long you couldn't clear the doorway with it and would probably clothes-line yourself on it. But in all seriousness it's a practical gun. Try it, you might just like it.

Bamashooter
August 17, 2011, 02:51 AM
Come on now BUFF you know you want one.

Maxem0815
August 17, 2011, 05:26 AM
The days of finding an old lever gun for $100.00 is long gone. And the bolt Acton 7.62X54 ammo is cheep not like other stuff. Not to mention that pawn shops get the lever gun for $75.00 and sell it for $200-$250.
Mace

swopjan
August 17, 2011, 06:20 AM
A must-read for anyone who owns a Mosin, or is thinking about it....

Humorous Comparison of AK47, AR15, and Mosin

thanks for that. My favorite part: "your rifle breaks? you buy a new one!"

cerberus65
August 17, 2011, 08:50 AM
I finally shot one a couple of weeks ago courtesy of my brother.

Rifle was cheap.

Ammo was so-so. I don't think my brother wanted to mess with cleaning it after shooting corrosive ammo. Can't say as I blame him.

Shooting it thumped the ol' shoulder as promised. Shooting it standing wasn't too bad. I wasn't interested in shooting it from a bench.

I wouldn't recommend one for a new shooter. A hunter will want a scope eventually. A target shooter will want a limbsaver recoil pad and is likely to be disappointed by the accuracy. If you think the MN makes a good HD gun then you're beyond any help I or anyone else on this forum could give. :D But if you've had some experience and understand what you're getting I'd say go for it. Part of the fun of shooting is the bang and the MN definitely delivers on that count.

Will I buy one? No, not likely. The price is enticing but surplus ammo won't last forever and then it will be at least as expensive as any other rifle to feed. Plus the reloader in me dislikes steel cases so it wouldn't be that cheap for me to shoot anyway. Oh, and the bolt really was stiff. I think my Tikka may have spoiled me! :)

hornetguy
August 17, 2011, 09:09 AM
Glad I could help entertain

Yea...maybe over the top.

Just checking the pulse.

hmmm... without a "sarcastic" smiley, don't they call this "trolling"? :confused:

:D I know, just rattlin the cages... sometimes that's a healthy thing.

hornetguy
August 17, 2011, 09:18 AM
Yeah, the accuracy thing sort of sucks... but I can live with it.
Top target is at 50yds, bottom one at 100yds.
Both with original open sights, M44 ROMANIAN edited... old age brain vapor lock. Mines Romanian.. 1954, same as me.
Ammo was 180 gr Sellier and Bellot stuff.

I DO agree on the limbsaver, though... :eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/hornetguy/mosintargets002copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/hornetguy/mosintargets003copy.jpg

DanThaMan1776
August 17, 2011, 09:32 AM
You've really never heard of the Mosin before TFL? :eek: What is happening to this world...

Poodleshooter
August 17, 2011, 10:11 AM
I'm a former Mosin 91/30 owner.
Too many range sessions with Czech light ball and a mallet to get the bolt open finally took its toll. (Yes, I did scrub out the chamber. It functioned just fine with Hungarian heavy ball, and commercial Tula/Barnaul/Ulyanovsk ammo) Sorting Albanian ammo for rim thickness to see what would actually chamber in my BIL's M44 was also hilarious.
They're fun for crufflers and if you want a nice old historic rifle for low cost, but as a shooter...meh, didn't do much for me.

rickyrick
August 17, 2011, 11:22 AM
80 bucks for a good condition milsurp with matching numbers...hell, 80 bucks for a rifle....Well, hell, 80 bucks for a fairly powerful rifle.

another 80-90 bucks for a gi-normous spam can of ammo

what isnt good about that combo.

most issues that the mosin faces can be fixed in fairly simple methods.


Oh yeah LOL @ Home Defense gun, umm, length is gonna be an issue. Like running down the hall with one of those gas price changing stick thingies.

chadstrickland
August 17, 2011, 11:34 AM
Well using a mn for defense has a silver lining :) if you run out of ammo you have one heck of a good club :)

Daekar
August 17, 2011, 11:41 AM
I guess some people are pickier than others. I know for a fact that many-a-deer has been dropped by Mosin-wielding hunters using open sights. If you don't like the 91/30, pick up an m44 or m38! They're shorter and handier, with an even bigger muzzle blast. You can get non-corrosive soft-points for hunting, and enjoy the cheapo corrosive stuff for range trips. I've shot 5 different Mosins, most of them 91/30s, and never had the bolt stick. Odd. I recently bedded the stock and recrowned the muzzle of my m44, and it's now as accurate as a deer gun needs to be in my neck of the woods. If you can hit a softball-sized target consistently from 100 to 150 yards, then you're good to go for real "stalk through the woods" hunting that takes place here in the east. If I were going hunting, I would rather take my k98k because of the finer sights, but the Mosin is perfectly capable of hunting if you are.

Are there better guns for the job out there? Of course! But not at the same price-point. :D

Oh yeah - for my own personal enjoyment, I wouldn't want something that kicks much more than my m44. I agree that they are not necessarily the best guns for beginners just because of that. Otherwise, they're dead simple to disassemble, clean, and operate. Good design. For a beginner who has already past the 22lr level, I would get an SKS if you want to stick to surplus, a 243 bolt gun, a 357mag or 30-30 lever gun... there are lots of medium power options that will do the job great at the range and on eastern whitetail out to 150 yards.

Webleymkv
August 17, 2011, 12:00 PM
I strongly suspect that the OP was just trying to get a rise out of the Mosinites, but just for fun I'll make a counter-point. My first firearm was a Mosin-Nagant (Romanian M44) and I still have it. I freely admit that it's not the most attractive gun ever made and, to blatantly steal a gun writer's synopsis, it has a trigger like a cannon lanyard. All that being said though, the darned thing always works and shoots where it's aimed with a more than acceptable level of accuracy and the best part is it cost me a whopping $55. Now, you can still get an arsenal-refurbished Russian 91/30 for $100-120 and ammo can still be had for $5-6/20 rounds. Having shot my younger brother's 91/30, I found the gun to be better finished, have a much better trigger, and be just as accurate if not more so than my M44 and that rifle cost a whole $100.

Are there better rifles than a M-N? Sure there are. My favorie rifle is my K31 followed by my Marlin Guide Gun, Saiga 223, and my M-N and M91 Carcano Cavalry Carbine tied for last in my collection. Can you find a better rifle for the money? No, I really don't think you can.

Gunplummer
August 17, 2011, 12:58 PM
I don't know how senior you senior members are, but I bought mine through the mail. My first honest to God, get rid of the single shot 12 gauge, genuine deer rifle. I can't remember if it was $15 0r $20 dollars of hard earned hay bailing money. When it showed up, I was in shock. It was as long as I was tall. I scrubbed it until I think I almost wore the serial no.# off. Next came another shock. The only ammo available cost more than the gun did (Norma). I did get a deer, and it was to this day one of the longest shots I ever took a deer at. I still have it, but would I hunt with it? Heck no. I had a beautiful sporterized Krag and I would not hunt with that club either. The safety sucks, the bolt is over engineered, they suck to sporterize and it is like walking around with a 57' Pontiac axle all day. Those rifles have been around for a long time and at way cheaper prices. Nobody wanted them. If the ammo had never entered the states they would still be unknown to most shooters. You want one, have at it.

zombieslayer
August 17, 2011, 01:26 PM
This thread has inspired me to start looking for another MN...and a few more tubs of surplus ammo. I love the copper washed stuff.

m.p.driver
August 17, 2011, 01:41 PM
I love to take a trip back memory lane, and be able to buy a K98 or a Swede 96 or 38 for $100.But those days are long gone and so is the cheap ammunition for them.However someone just starting in the shooting game has the MN to cut their teeth on.Cheap to feed,bare bones,and fairly accurate.Want to branch out? then find yourself a Finn 28,30,or 39,they will shoot better than you're capable of.

svaz
August 17, 2011, 02:47 PM
It's an excellent platform for HD. See, many American homes have two inconspicuous defensive items in them: cutlery, for stabbing, and baseball bats, for bludgeoning. When you affix the yard-log bayonet to the Mosin you instantly have both at your immediate disposal. Think of it as a 19th Century Russian version of Darth Maul's lightsaber.

kealil
August 17, 2011, 04:21 PM
I love and hate my m44. I love its decent accuracy cheap ammo and the amazing deal i got ( $200 plus 500 rounds of brown bear ammo)

I hate the way my shoulder feels after 20 rounds.

I consider it my SHTF rifle for ammo availability and sheer durability.
I want an AR though......

rickyrick
August 17, 2011, 04:46 PM
LOL, the mosin nagant is the mini14 of the milsurp bolt actions.



But, it doesn't kick as hard as my enfield

603Country
August 17, 2011, 05:58 PM
All you MN guys just love the rifle. I get that it's cheap. It ought to be cheap. I shot the neighbor kid's MN and it kicked like a 30-06, the sights were about as bad as any rifle sights I've ever seen and the trigger pull might have been the worst I've encountered, though I'm sure a devoted follower could finally get used to it. And let's not forget the safety. Maybe it needed lubrication, but it was very tough to engage/disengage. Anyway, if you like the rifle, I'm happy for you. But...would you all have the same praise for the rifle if it was built to the same quality as you get now, but made new in Mexico by a second rate maker and still sold for $100. I don't think so. If you even mentioned it on this forum, you'd all be howling about what a piece of trash it was. You like it because it was a Russian war weapon. It's just a crudely made rifle with military history attached, and it's probably fun to take something that bad and make it shoot good. That's fine, and I can see that attraction, but I'll spend the 100 bucks on something else.

kristop64089
August 17, 2011, 06:19 PM
BUFF, I was once like you(last year in fact), and then last year I was at a friends house who was hosting a NFA shoot. After all the suppressed guns, and the Full Autos, the gun I liked most was LISTENING to the M44 get touched off.

That little bugger shut everyone down. It is one of the loudest rifles I have heard. I spent a little trigger time with it, and decided I had to have one.

I started searching, and got my hands on a Finnish M39. Gret gun(for what it is...a SHTF rifle), I found a 91/30 at my itty bitty LGS for $75(I'm getting it this weekend as another SHTF rifle). I'm still on the hunt for a moderately priced M44.

They are good for what they are. The ammo is cheap, and they make GREAT plinkers and SHTF guns.

rezmedic54
August 17, 2011, 07:10 PM
I have all 3 MN's the m-44 ,38 ,and the 91/30. Took about an hour to fix the triggers on these guns most feel like your pulling a truck mine are down to 3 lbs. break like glass. Accuracy was easy floated the barrels on them and they shoot 1 inch groups at 100 not bad for a 65 year old plus rifle. They aren't pretty but fun to shoot if you like to get the snot out of your shoulder.

sir_n0thing
August 17, 2011, 09:02 PM
This is an entertaining thread! :)

I love my 91/30. I am even sort of fond of the way it looks.

When I want to feel a nice trigger and a smooth bolt and shoot for 200+ yard accuracy I grab my Tikka.
When I want to have a hoot launching cheap ammo at paper with iron sights, I grab the Mosin.

Both have a place in my collection!

raftman
August 17, 2011, 10:09 PM
I shot the neighbor kid's MN and it kicked like a 30-06.

And this is somehow a point against the rifle? It's the nature of the cartridge, you'll find most rifles of the same class will kick about the same. Would you also be in the front row at a rock concert and complain that the music was too loud?

the sights were about as bad as any rifle sights I've ever seen
Please quantify what made them so "bad," it's not the best set-up, but it's pretty average and if you claim the Mosin sights are the worst you've seen, your experience with rifles must be quite far from diverse.

and the trigger pull might have been the worst I've encountered,

Again no explanation as to how it's the "worst."

Anyway, if you like the rifle, I'm happy for you. But...would you all have the same praise for the rifle if it was built to the same quality as you get now, but made new in Mexico by a second rate maker and still sold for $100.

Yes, probably. People don't praise the gun because it's Russian, if anything, there tends to be an anti-Russian bias that exists in the gun crowd in the USA. People praise the Mosin due to its rugged durable construction, reliability, potential for accuracy, and how fun it is to shoot, all which comes at an impressively low price.

Now praise is one thing, but the Mosin would almost certainly be less popular, wouldn't sell as well, if it were indeed made in modern Mexico rather than the now-gone USSR, that is if it were somehow stripped of its historical interest. But that's true of any firearm of historical interest; how many people would buy a Springfield 1903 if it were available today at the same price and quality, but instead, made in present-day Nicaragua, for example?

It's just a crudely made rifle with military history attached, and it's probably fun to take something that bad and make it shoot good.

Simple doesn't always mean crude, and neither crude nor simple necessarily mean bad. Sometimes, simplicity its it's own kind of sophistication.


That's fine, and I can see that attraction, but I'll spend the 100 bucks on something else.


Absolutely, it's your $100 and you can spend it however you see fit... just don't count on that $100 buying you a nicer gun of the same class as a Mosin; it almost certainly ain't gonna happen.

Ignition Override
August 17, 2011, 10:46 PM
The OP must be referring mostly to the 91/30s?

I had one, but then fell for the handier Russian 44s. Both 44s had decent bores, but were not very bright (neither was I).
Using only the oldest Bulgarian ammo, my 'groups' from 50 yards resembled shotgun blast.

It would have been wiser to have waited, in order to find and try out small samples of x54R ammo from Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia etc.

Sometimes we see an excellent Polish MN 44 at Memphis-area gun shows.
A friend found a very nice Hungarian 44 at a gun show in central FL months ago.

jagwire
August 17, 2011, 11:26 PM
Like was stated earlier the Mosin is so poular because they are cheap to buy and shoot. One guy compared it to the VW beetle.

The same reason the .22 LR is so popular. It is just really cheap. There are a lot better rimfire cartridges on the maket. But the .22 LR outsells them all put together.

I would say a large number, not all, of those who say "Get a mosin, they're awesome" probably don't own many nicer guns to compare it to. I grew up shooting Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Remington, etc. When I first picked up my buddies Mosin I almost laughed at how rudimentary it was.

But the more I handle the Soviet designed firearms the more I see that they are more rudimentary than what we normally see. Mosin's, AK's, SKS's, Makarovs. THey were simply built to function and fuction cheaply.

Price a Mosin, AK, SKS, or Makarov pistols at the prices of comparable arms like MAusers, 1903's, AR's, Garands, Beretta M9's and I am fairly certain the soviet weapons would not be so popular.

raftman
August 18, 2011, 12:25 AM
I would say a large number, not all, of those who say "Get a mosin, they're awesome" probably don't own many nicer guns to compare it to.

False. The Mosin comes highly recommended because it does actually deliver a lot for very little money. It doesn't denote an inexperience to recommend something inexpensive to a beginner that would allow them to get into the world of shooting without scaring them away with high prices. In fact, it is probably more prudent to start cheap and find move upward if you find you want something more than to invest a ton of money into something you find you're just not into.

Price a Mosin, AK, SKS, or Makarov pistols at the prices of comparable arms like MAusers, 1903's, AR's, Garands, Beretta M9's and I am fairly certain the soviet weapons would not be so popular.

The argument makes no sense. Why would a Makarov ever cost as much as an M9, when the latter is probably twice as complex as the former? Why would an SKS cost as much as Garand if it's simpler, and there's been nearly 3 times as many of them made as the Garand (and in at least 7 different countries)? It is like saying would anyone shoot .22lr if it cost as much as 30-06? The argument asks something that by definition couldn't be true because of the nature of the beast.

What's more, there's plenty of counter-examples, like some of the nicer AK variants which are popular and widely recommend (such as the Arsenal SGL-21) which are priced well within the AR price territory. Odd.

Incidentally, price and quality often don't correlate the way they're supposed to. A Ruger Mini-30 is basically a more expensive, less reliable alternative to the SKS, but that doesn't stop people from shelling out $600 or more on one. A PPK is in many if not most respects inferior to a Makarov, and people still buy the former for 3 times the price.

What's more, the prices of Soviet guns have gone up in many respects which hasn't curtailed demand, you certainly don't find Russian SKS rifles for $90 anymore, but today you'll have no trouble selling one at 3 or even 4 times that price. Also odd.

Daekar
August 18, 2011, 12:38 AM
I think this is a classic case of anti-surplus snobbery. Someday they'll figure out that sometimes all you need is something that works and does the job. Cheap doesn't always mean bad, especially in a surplus market model. Anybody who has used a decent amount of milsurp hardware and taken the time to learn the kinks of their particular piece has discovered that they're usually good value unless you got a bad example (dark rusty bore with damaged crown). Even then, all hope is not lost with just a smidgen of ingenuity.

Nobody is claiming that the M/N is a world-class sniper rifle (although certain examples throughout history have been superb sniper rifles), they're claiming it's a good, cheap, simple, get-it-done piece of kit. No, it won't outshoot your Remchester Ultramountainbenchmag... but who cares?

LarryNTX
August 18, 2011, 01:22 AM
What other rifle can you use for hunting AND fishing?
Get a Mosin, they're awesome.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/eightball44/mosin2.jpg

Sphawley
August 18, 2011, 01:31 AM
I'm surprised I haven't heard this one yet....

'Worried Homeowner'-" I need something for home defense..."
'Responder'- " Get a Mosin Nagant. They're awesome"

Why do seemingly sensible people suggest this abomination?



I do love my nagant for plinking but this was to funny!!!!!

.300 Weatherby Mag
August 18, 2011, 02:45 AM
I would say a large number, not all, of those who say "Get a mosin, they're awesome" probably don't own many nicer guns to compare it to.


Guess again..

Josh Smith
August 18, 2011, 04:44 AM
Cheap centerfire rifle? Are Mosins junk?

I would recommend the Mosin-Nagant.

People are right in that they're cheap. What they get wrong was the reason why. Importers are buying the rifles at what are essentially scrap prices. The Russians are looking to unload them any which way, and they prefer to sell them. However, if they didn't have buyers, they'd just toss them into some body of water or another.

The Mosin-Nagant is inexpensive, but not "cheap". If produced today, a Mosin the quality of a pre-war example would cost $600 to $800 to PRODUCE. I do not know what the retail markup would be, but I would suspect it would be at least a couple hundred dollars.

Properly made, they are capable of 2.5" and under at 100 yards. My personal 91/30 will do under an inch with handloaded ammo, though I have done a bit of accurizing to it (adjustable front sight, cork bedding, trigger work).

The WWII snipers found that wrapping the barrel in oiled felt would improve the precision as well.

You will have many people telling you that the Mosin-Nagant is not an accurate rifle. These are the same types of people I love to prove wrong. I have outshot many modern rifles.

To be fair, however, you cannot compare the Mosin-Nagant to a modern, precision built bolt-action rifle. Neither can you compare the prices -- a good, modern bolt-action rifle will cost at least thee times what a good Mosin-Nagant will run you, and likely much more.

When I want precision, I grab my set-trigger target precision rifle that will knock around a ping-pong ball with ease at 100 yards.

If I want to have fun, plink, or need a serious, non-complicated rifle, I grab the Mosin.

The Mosin-Nagant will shoot better than most shooters are capable.


http://www.smith-sights.com/answers-to-questions.php

Additionally, they are push-feed instead of controlled-feed. Push-feed is inherently more accurate, and this is born out by shoots against the Mauser.

Josh

603Country
August 18, 2011, 11:51 AM
Hi Raftman,

I wasn't ranting against the rifle, I was just wondering out loud what the big attraction is. Yes, it kicked like a 30-06, but that's because the round is similar to a 30-06. The kick wasn't bad. As for my comment on the sights, those were very crude sights. Maybe not really the worst I ever saw, but whatever the worst was doesn't come to mind right now. They are crude though functional, but they are in no way particularly good sights. As for the trigger pull, it wasn't gritty, it was just long. More like a green twig eventually breaking than a thin glass rod breaking. I assume that a fellow could get used to it, or maybe improve it. In today's dollars, the gun is probably well worth $100. And I do firmly believe that part of its charm and attraction is that people want to see if they can shoot well with something that basic. That seems to be the basis for many of the MN topics on this forum. There's no question that the rifle, or some of them, are capable of very fine accuracy. And I'll guess that the MN has the most accuracy potential of any rifle you can get for $100. That's praise of a sort.

Jimro
August 18, 2011, 12:48 PM
A service rifle going on 120 years ain't bad....

Yes there are more modern firearms that are better suited to more specific purposes. But Mosin's are a lot of fun.

And cheap.

Jimro

Skans
August 18, 2011, 01:25 PM
I'm not a Mosin fan either. I'd much rather spend $100-$150 more and find a decent used Savage 30-06 with a scope, scope already mounted on it.

svaz
August 18, 2011, 02:10 PM
I also think the bias against the MN is simple snobbery. I have a Rem 700 in .308 by way of comparison. The only advantages for the Rem I see are that it's lighter and it's easier to mount a scope. Yeah, there are tons of after-market for the Rem 700, but they are of no interest to me. At ~4x the price of the MN, I find the 700 sort of pointless since the performance (after a few simple (cheap!) mods to the MN) is about on par.

I'm taking the MN to the range; I'm considering selling the 700.

bejay
August 18, 2011, 03:03 PM
not a fan either and would rather spend a little more for a more modern rifle although theres nothing wrong with having one to take to the range or collecting them, they really shouldnt be recomended for anything else in my opinion.

CLC
August 18, 2011, 03:04 PM
If the M/Ns in question were made in the United States would it still be junk?

hornetguy
August 18, 2011, 03:23 PM
What other rifle can you use for hunting AND fishing?
Get a Mosin, they're awesome.



that's funny right there.... I don't care who you are... :D

bejay
August 18, 2011, 03:39 PM
If the M/Ns in question were made in the United States would it still be junk?
might be worth more to a collector but its still just a mosin or junk as you would put it.

Slamfire
August 18, 2011, 03:59 PM
If the M/Ns in question were made in the United States would it still be junk

It would be old. I have a Westinghouse made during WW1 and rebuilt by the Finns.

Back in the 80's you could get a Finnish MN for $69.00!!

Hey, it went bang and I could not complain for $69.00.

I shot one deer with a M27 finnish. Killed it just as dead as the one I shot with a 30-06.

If you think Mosin fans are expressive, they are nothing compared to M1911 or Glock fans!

Skans
August 18, 2011, 04:02 PM
If the M/Ns in question were made in the United States would it still be junk?

Junk? no. Common, heavy, archaic, ugly and hard to scope? Yes. These things cost $110 roughly. That's not "cheap". Cheap would be if they cost $30. Then, what the heck.

If you are thinking of investing over $100 in a rifle, why not spend a little more and get a modern bolt action that shoots a common cartridge, is lighter, works just as good, or better, has the potential for a much better trigger and can be scoped easily?

Sometimes, you can spend just a little more and get a lot more gun.

kristop64089
August 18, 2011, 04:33 PM
Spending $100 or more to some people is a lot. If I were hard up and wanted to get into shooting, the Mosin isn't a bad choice.
Even if I could get a $250 .308/,30-06 etc. the cost of ammo would be prohibitive.

I have more than enough guns, but wanted a M/N just because. The AK's and AR's are boring to me now. They have no historic value(even if it's evil).
M/N have a deep history, and many of them have seen more battles than any human alive. That's why I like them. YMMV

CLC
August 18, 2011, 04:57 PM
No! The N.E.W.s and Remingtons are awsome super military hardware and all other
M/Ns are trash :D made by communists! On a more serious note I own 8 M/Ns and they are all collectables and are only slightly worse then the enfields and mausers I own.

BUFF
August 18, 2011, 06:05 PM
Thank you to those of you with a sense of humor and an intelligent post. You are the ones that should be giving advice on TFL. Sorry I didn't take the time to write down the names of some of the quotes I'm gonna poach...my apologies for breaking the rules ahead of time. Just some I thought required an answer.

Now then, let's get to it...

hmmm... without a "sarcastic" smiley, don't they call this "trolling"?
Not trolling...just a plea for some sage advice to new shooters.:eek:
I respect the fact that people like certain types of firearms. But why suggest to new shooters that they should buy it and be proud to own it. Is this why some new posters never post a second time because "experts" suggest they own a Mosin Nagant? Then they go look at one and think "What the hell?".

You've really never heard of the Mosin before TFL? What is happening to this world...

I've heard of them. I watch the History Channel. What I should have said was that I don't know anyone that owns one or would admit to owning one.

I also think the bias against the MN is simple snobbery.
Nope. Wrong again. I've never had enough money to be snobbish against anything. When I was a kid we had to eat whatever was left in the cabinets at the end of the month cause we were borderline destitue. Even though my father was a well respected LEO and my mom worked for the county clerks office. But we had decent shooting arms to harvest game with. We had to to keep put meat on the table.

"Don't know why they call it Hamburger Helper...it does just fine on it's own. I like it better than Tuna Helper"-Cousin Eddy "Vacation"

if u dont like them it doesn't bother me, everyone's got to be a hater on something.
Don't hate 'em. But I don't celebrate them.

Funny how the highest number of sniper kills made by one man in WW2 was with one.

That's like saying there's a guy in Texas that kills a lot of wild hogs. Not impressed.

Do you rant at Beetle owners on a car forum Buff?
VW? "The People's Car"? No way. Every high school girl should own one.:p

not a fan either and would rather spend a little more for a more modern rifle although theres nothing wrong with having one to take to the range or collecting them, they really shouldnt be recomended for anything else in my opinion.
Now that pretty much sums it up.:cool:

Eh, don't worry about it, the Mosin is a better rifle than BUFF is a thinker.:mad:
And finally to this clown...So you want to question my intelligence (did I spell that right?:D)? That's ok. It's easy for people to call you stupid when you don't agree with their opinion. What's hard for people is to come up with an intelligent response and a valid argument against your opinion. Those that can do it are the people that should be giving advice to new shooters. If I was a lower primate as you suggest...I'd tell you we're going outside so I could knock the dust off ya. But I have opposible (did i spell that right?) thumbs. ;)

Did I get the "sarcastic" smiley in there?

.300 Weatherby Mag
August 18, 2011, 07:22 PM
Sometimes, you can spend just a little more and get a lot more gun.

Well sometimes, I need a challenge and my Remington built Mosin Nagant delivers it... With any of my scoped rifles I can hit the 500 gong with every shot.... Try hitting that same gong with the Mosin, offhand...

I don't need to scope every rifle I own.. Some of them are for fun and nothing else...

M.O.A.
August 18, 2011, 07:32 PM
i'm fed up with this post who cares who likes or dislikes M/N does it really matter if you dont like them dont buy one if you do then buy all you can buy but for me i real dont care one way or the othere :D:D

raftman
August 18, 2011, 09:51 PM
.So you want to question my intelligence (did I spell that right?)? That's ok. It's easy for people to call you stupid when you don't agree with their opinion. What's hard for people is to come up with an intelligent response and a valid argument against your opinion. Those that can do it are the people that should be giving advice to new shooters. If I was a lower primate as you suggest...I'd tell you we're going outside so I could knock the dust off ya. But I have opposible (did i spell that right?) thumbs.

With all due respect, your post didn't actually make any serious arguments as to why the Mosin is a bad choice for a novice shooter. You mainly resorted to statements like "POS made by commie heathens" or "whittled by Ivan from pine and old tractor parts." While one can see the attempt at humor, these things are far from fact-based arguments and more akin to name-calling.

In contrast, it has been thoroughly established as to why one might recommend a Mosin to a novice shooter.

1. They're inexpensive to buy: often available for under $80, you simply cannot get any other centerfire rifle for such a small price, particularly one with the following positive attributes:

2. They're inexpensive to shoot: One can buy a can of 440 rounds for around $80, a price that's unheard of for any comparable cartridge. The low cost of the rifle and ammo allows one to shoot a lot more, thus better developing proficiency. Gotta love the ability to develop skills without spending a whole ton of money.

3. They can be quite accurate: This is variable, these rifles are anywhere from 70-ish to 120 years old, so condition can vary from all but worn-out to just about pristine, but a good specimen can definitely hold its own in the accuracy department.

4. They're rugged, reliable, and durable: Mosins are built to last, and they have lasted, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them around today. They put up with heavy use and aren't prone to breaking or suffering failures. One can get a whole lot of use from a Mosin.

5. They're fun to shoot.

You simply can't get all of that for so little money from any other rifle. No one is arguing that they're best rifle out there for any given purpose, but for the price it's quite hard to top.

Skans
August 19, 2011, 08:06 AM
Well sometimes, I need a challenge and my Remington built Mosin Nagant delivers it... With any of my scoped rifles I can hit the 500 gong with every shot.... Try hitting that same gong with the Mosin, offhand...

I don't need to scope every rifle I own.. Some of them are for fun and nothing else...

My posts were really directed to folks wanting a cheap hunting rifle, because that's what they can afford. For a little more money, you can get a lot more rifle than a Mosin. Now, for those folks that just like to plink with this or that rifle - I have no issue at all with Mosins. I've got a Carbon-15 pistol that I like to plink around with - it ain't good for much else, but it sure is fun to shoot. I've also got an old Winchester 30-30, post-64 (yep, pitted up receiver and all) that I like to shoot - pretty much paid $50 for it. Bought an SKS and the 30-30 for $250 and sold the SKS for $200, leaving me with the ugly 30-30. And, I could actually hunt with that 30-30.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that a Mosin is not the best gun for hunting, nor the cheapest. But, if you just like it for historical, or whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that at all.....at least it's not a hi-point (Ooooo, I should have refrained from saying that.:D)

Josh Smith
August 19, 2011, 09:06 AM
Hello,

Wild hogs have reached Southern Indiana. Some folks have described razorbacks, but I'm not sure about all that.

When they get to Northern Indiana, I will hunt them. I have a nice deer herd but also lowland out back in the woods where the deer hang. That lowland would make most excellent hog wallers.

Given that the Mosin turns coyotes inside-out, I plan to use it. However, I also plan on having backup in the form of my 1911 with 230grn hardcast truncated cone, and I will have the bayonet affixed to the Mosin.

I want any and all backup I can get. My dog looks like Old Yeller and I'm personally not a fan of being hog cut. I've heard it's quite unpleasant.

Josh

benogil
August 19, 2011, 09:16 AM
Josh,
My brother is a hunting guide in Texas , and guides for Hog hunts. When they get there , just some friendly advice , carry an extra mag for that .45.

Clark
August 19, 2011, 09:40 AM
I have spent the last few weeks, making drawing, making parts, doing tests, doing statistics, experimenting, and even a little shooting with Mosin Nagants.

I am sure my wife is tired of Mosin Nagants. She would like to see a little more home maintenance:)

hornetguy
August 19, 2011, 10:35 AM
Thank you to those of you with a sense of humor and an intelligent post. You are the ones that should be giving advice on TFL. Sorry I didn't take the time to write down the names of some of the quotes I'm gonna poach...my apologies for breaking the rules ahead of time. Just some I thought required an answer.



"Lighten up, Francis...."

You used my quote about the "trolling" If you had read it all, you would see that I was jokingly calling you a troll... read the next line of that post.

You started a thread that you knew would be controversial.. slamming a rifle that many people like, and enjoy shooting. Then you came back and stated that you were just "testing the waters"...
Seems like you EXPECTED negative comments, now you act offended that you actually received those comments.

Personally, I think some folks took your post WAY too seriously, which is bound to happen on the interweb... it just happens. Others responded very succinctly to your statements with intelligent, sensible rebuttals. That's a good thing. It's called "discussion" ;)

I don't feel obligated to "defend" my decision to own, or not own ANY firearm. I DO like discussing qualities and characteristics of them... it's a good way to actually LEARN something.

Good discussion, all around, as long as we don't let it descend into name-calling and nose-tweaking.

Oh... the reason I mentioned the "sarcastic" smiley is that I can't FIND it... I'd be using it all the time, if I could just FIND the silly thing... :D

hornetguy
August 19, 2011, 10:39 AM
I have spent the last few weeks, making drawing, making parts, doing tests, doing statistics, experimenting, and even a little shooting with Mosin Nagants.



Clark... what are you trying to discover about all those Mosins?

The reason I ask is that I have a "project" in mind for my old, sewer pipe for a bore, Model 91. It was given to me, and it is one of the neglected ones. The bore is basically beyond hope. I still shot "minute of bad guy" groups with it, but it will never be what I would call accurate. So..... I'm thinking of a "modification"....

chasep255
August 19, 2011, 10:48 AM
I like working on my Mosin. I feel like if I screw up a $100 rifle I have a lot less to loose than a more expensive one.

Clark
August 19, 2011, 11:02 AM
At this minute I am looking at the spring rate in sears.

F = -kx
8 lb = -k -.1"
k = 80 lb/in

The elastic limit varies from sear to sear from .2 to .3"
That means the spring is yielding between 16 and 24 pounds of force.

The pre load of some sears varies from 6 to 10 pounds.
The firing pin is released with .05 ~ .075" of sear travel, but the over travel of the trigger makes the sear displace .10"

So if some sears are pre loaded at 10 pounds, and traveled another .1" which would be another 8 pounds of force, then the spring force at end of trigger travel could be 18 pounds.
Which means some sear springs were reset when installed in the rifle and the trigger was pulled the first time.

A while back I looked at my calculated and verified max torque on 10-32 drilled and tapped holes in the receiver for the ATI type scope mount.
I learned a lot of stuff from that, not just MNs.

44 AMP
August 19, 2011, 01:21 PM
I grew up shooting in the era when Mausers, Spinglfields, Enfields, Arisakas, and even Krags were common and cheap. Ammo was too. What was rare and expensive was Soviet bloc guns and their ammo.

With the collapse of the Communist empire (exception; China) lots of nations found themselves desperate for cash. And they learned that US shooters would buy, and buy a lot of stuff if cheap.

Younger shooters often have lots of desire, but little cash. First rifles (no matter how bad they are) make a place in our hearts.

Most have expounded on the fact that Moisins are cheap, and so is the ammo. That is true, today. But they aren't as cheap as they used to be, and as time goes on, the cost will only go up. Sheer volume will keep it lower than many other things, but it will go up.

The Moisin Nagant could be described as a "bare bones" military bolt action. It dates from the early days of bolt action rifles, and lacks the refinements common to later designs. Also being Russian, it lacks the refinements Europeans considered minimum standards. It is what it is, but that's all that it is, and nearly all it can be.

US ingenuity has come up with all kinds of replacement stocks, sights, scopes, etc., but no matter what you do, you still have a sow's ear, not a silk purse.

It does, however work, and is nearly indestructable. Crude, but effective.

As a beginner's .30caliber, it has the benefits of not only being cheap, but tough. An extra scratch or three doesn't bring tears to the eye, or to the wallet (much, anyway).

The round is in the .30-06/.308/.303/8mm/7.7mm power class, and when you have a good bore, AND good ammo, is quite accurate.

They have their quirks (what doesn't?), but if you can live with them, they will give good service.

If you never heard of the Moisin Nagant rifles before finding them on TFL, you didn't learn much history. The main reason knowing about them isn't as common as the other milsurps is that until the fall of Communism, they were never around in any numbers. Now they are, are cheap, rugged, and crudely functional. Therefore, lots of guys love them, faults and all.

I would never recommend one to a friend, other than as a collector's piece, but there is one advantage to starting out with a Moisin, and that is when you move up in quality, you really appreceiate it!

And yes, I do own a couple. Also nearly all the other common milsurps, and while its just my opinion, I am basing it on experience.

Buzzcook
August 19, 2011, 02:01 PM
I'd take a rock solid $100 Mosin any day over a $400 sequined covered you-know-what from a pawn shop.

I like sequins. Rhinestones are better though. /snark

I'd guess this is the type of post the OP finds objectionable.

rickyrick
August 19, 2011, 02:54 PM
I wonder if some guy with a muzzle loader called a guy with a Mosin Nagant a Tacticool gun snob

kraigwy
August 19, 2011, 03:25 PM
One of the fastest growing venues of shooting sports is CMP GSM (Garand-Springfield-Vintage Military) matches.

In todays world, shooting high power rifle requries an investment of a min of $1500 just for the rifle, not to menton other equipment and AMMO (huge cost in HP). The precludes many "lower income' people from participating.

Along comes the CMP and created the GSM program. Ruled say ASS ISSUE. meaning you can't dump tons of mony in your rifle. We're all on the same sheet of music.

So if a guy wants to get into competition, where else can he find a $100 rifle that can be competitive. Ammo for the Mosin is cheaper then you can reload.

Just about any Mosin out there, using the surplus ammo is capable of shooting 3.5 moa. The 10-X ring on the targets used in the GSM matches is 3.5 inches. Its the shooter, not the rifle.

If a Mosin can come along and open the way anyone, regardless of income to get involved in rifle shooting, it jumps to the top of my Surplus Rifle list.

Since I'm old, and the commies' are all gone, no more "commie killing" so I drifted to the CMP GSM Games, and thats where the Mosin shines.

TCL
August 19, 2011, 03:39 PM
For the collector, the Mosin offers infinite variation while not being very expensive. I have one Springfield '03 (actually, a Smith Corona 03A3.) It cost me $800. It's probably the only one I'll ever own, because while it's a great rifle, the prices are just too way high. Same thing goes for M1917s, M1 carbines, etc. And watch Garand prices skyrocket when CMP runs out. My goal is not to collect those in detail, but rather one of each.

Now, I have a bunch of Mosins. The most expensive cost me $350, and that was a Finnish 91/30 that was as close to unissued as you'll find (a lot of Finnish 91/30s were produced postwar and went straight into storage.) My average Mosin cost me around $150. I have a pretty nice Mosin collection that includes some rare variations, done on the cheap. I have a few select examples of other rifles because they're too expensive.

I really need to start shooting the Vintage Rifle Matches one of the local gun clubs is staging, if I can ever make the schedule work.