PDA

View Full Version : Nosler 22-250 60 Grain PT and H380 Load data?


murphjup
July 30, 2011, 08:43 AM
Anyone have some load data for Nolser 60 Grain Partitions with H-380?

I'm gonna be trying them out in my 1:14 twist Ruger... yes I know that's a questionable weight for that twist...

Nosler's website show's load data for other powders, but not for H380.

Nosler's test data is also from a 1:14 twist rate which, I find interesting...

Not expecting a tack driver with this bullet...

Thank you in advance...

:)

Unclenick
July 30, 2011, 09:33 AM
The stability calculator on the the JBM site (http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi) suggests this bullet is likely to tumble at sea level. You can shoot a short flat base, like the Sierra semi-point (0.755" long) but your Nosler is 0.790" long according the site's length list, and that crosses a line in stability according to the calculator. It causes the prediction that it will be unstable and tumble and whiz off in all directions.

On the other hand, I find that calculator often estimates the numbers too low with .224" bullets. I don't know why. It does quite well with .308 diameters. So, the only thing you can do is try it and see. Watch for fully or partially sideways holes (keyholing) in the paper, assuming it lets you hit it at all. No way to be sure up front. You would have better certainty of stability using the Sierra bullet I mentioned.

Here's a result window for the calculation. Basically, the stability number is what is called a gyroscopic stability factor, and the bullet is just stable when the number is 1.0. Sierra recommends you have a bullet in the range of 1.3 to 3.0 for hunting accuracy. The match shooters say 1.4 to 1.7 is best for tack driving, with 1.5 being the most cited optimal figure.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72341&stc=1&d=1312035786

I would use the H380 data Hodgdon lists for the 60 grain V-max. That is 37.5 grains to start and 40.5 grains maximum, with a COL of 2.350", in a Winchester case with a Winchester LR primer.

murphjup
July 30, 2011, 09:44 AM
Thank you Unclenick for the information...

As you said I will just try it and see...

Why would Nosler show it's load data with a 1:14 twist if it is going to be so unstable?

http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/22-250-Remington-60-Grains.aspx

Seems odd to me?

Thank you for your reply..

:D

murphjup
July 30, 2011, 10:00 AM
I am also loading 55 Grain Hornaday Vmax's that measure .81 from tip to base...

They shoot fine in my rifle and they have a worse bullet stablity calculation on the JBM calculator..

Am I measuring the bullet length correctly?

Thank you in advance..

:)

Unclenick
July 30, 2011, 10:01 AM
As I said, the stability calculator tends to give lower-than-actual stability factor numbers for .22's. I don't know why, and that's why I wouldn't rely on it without testing. It is an estimator based on Don Miller's modifications of the old Greenhill formula to bring atmospheric conditions and velocity into the equation, and is not a true direct stability calculation (which is immensely complex and requires data on the projectile not commonly available; center of mass location, for example).

The fact the estimator's number is low does not bode well for pinpoint accuracy though. It also means any slight error in muzzle crown or rifling symmetry or bullet straightness in the case will tend to have their effects exaggerated in the group size. In other words, gun condition and care in loading will matter more than for a shorter bullet. You may benefit from neck sizing rather than full length resizing.

I also noticed the V-max in Hodgdon's data. Your Partition should actually do a little better than that. I think I'm going to have to write Don Miller and see what thinks is happening?

Good luck with it.

P.S. You're likely measuring bullet length just fine. Not a lot of options there.

murphjup
July 30, 2011, 10:14 AM
Unclenick, For the use I want to shoot the Nosler with, if it shoots as fine as my 55 Grain Vmax's I will be satisfied... not looking for a target gun in this case...

I am only using these rounds in my bolt action Ruger, so neck sizing is all I am doing...

Please let me know if you find out anymore information from JBM...

Thank you again for your insightful reply.

:)

SRH78
July 30, 2011, 12:23 PM
I have used the same bullet in my Savage and haven't had any issues. I loaded to the max that Hodgdon lists for the 60 grain Vmax which is 40.5 grains of 380. With a 26" barrel, I am getting just about 3700 fps.

SRH78
July 30, 2011, 12:27 PM
FWIW, the last group I shot with that load was at 170 yards using a bag chair for a rest and it was really windy. The three shots were in a horizontal line about 3/4" wide.

murphjup
July 30, 2011, 12:37 PM
SRH whats the twist of your Savage? I thought they were 1:12?

:)

SRH78
July 30, 2011, 02:47 PM
Unless I am mistaken, it is 1:12.


edit: should have mentioned that in my first post. :o

Unclenick
July 30, 2011, 03:33 PM
That makes quite a difference. Turns an estimated stability factor of 0.964 into 1.312.

603Country
July 30, 2011, 09:37 PM
I successfully shot the no longer made 60 grain Nosler Solid Base Boattail in my 220 Swift with the 1 in 14 twist. It shot great to 200, but that was as far out as I tested it. I never tried the 60 grain Partition in that rifle and have no idea if data for one applies to the other.

And my rifle shot great with the 63 grain Sierra semipoint, which is the heaviest bullet I ever used in the 220.

It does occur to me that the Swift has a bit higher muzzle velocity, if that has a direct bearing on stabilizing the bullet. You might want to dump that 22-250 and move on up to the big dog, the Swift....:D

Unclenick
July 31, 2011, 10:45 AM
Yes, a little. Faster is usually more stable because, at rifle velocities, the resulting increase in rate of spin increases gyroscopic rigidity and precession strength more than air pressure on the nose is increased. The improvement isn't huge, but is real.

The other thing that happens is spin decays more slowly than forward velocity does, so the spin becomes more than needed as the bullet slows. So a bullet that starts out marginally stable winds up adequately stabilized if it travels far enough without tumbling.

murphjup
August 5, 2011, 07:09 PM
Thanks all!! Im gonna try to load some of my Noslers, and will keep you posted how it goes.

:)

jagwire
August 19, 2011, 07:38 PM
Murphjup,

how did the 60 gr. Partitions shoot in your Ruger? The reason I ask is because I also have a Ruger 77 in 22-250 and would like a Nosler partition load, but the 60 gr is the lightest .224 partition that Nosler makes. My ruger loves the 50 gr bullets but I didn't want to buy a box of 60 gr. Partitions if they wont stabilize. Let me know. Thanks

murphjup
August 19, 2011, 07:44 PM
Jagwire, I have not had time to load them up yet, hopefully within the next couple weeks, when I do I will give you a range report...

I have shot the 55 Grain Vmax's fine in my Ruger... the Nosler's are actually a little shorter...

:)

jagwire
August 19, 2011, 08:51 PM
I scrounged up a partial box of 60 gr Hornady SP bullets. I plan on loading up some for my ruger 1:14 22-250 and see how they do. I think the results would be very similar to the Nosler Partition.

I am thinking of possibly taking this rifle deer hunting but if I cant find a suitable bullet, I won't. Most of the .224 bullets i've researched are designed for rapid/explosive expansion at 22-250 velocities. The Partition would be great except the lightest and only .224 partition is 60 gr. So I guess between the two of us we'll see if the 1:14 ruger can stabilize a 60.

603Country
August 19, 2011, 09:35 PM
I'm betting that the 60 grain Partition will stabilize. I successfully shot hundreds of the 60 grain Nosler Solid Base Boattails in that old Swift of mine (with the 1 in 14 twist) and I checked my notes to find that I loaded it far from max, so was below what velocity you could do with the 22-250. As for other possible bullets, I also shot quite a few deer with that 60 grain Solid Base and with the 55 grain Solid Base, and I really don't recommend that you do that. Maybe I'd try the 55 grain Sierra Gameking if I just had to shoot a deer with a 22-250 or maybe Barnes or Hornady makes something sturdy you could use.

murphjup
August 19, 2011, 09:51 PM
I will keep you all posted here, but Im thinking the same thing that they will stabilize ok...

:)

jagwire
August 22, 2011, 08:24 PM
So I took out my Ruger 77 and tried some of the 60 gr. Hornady SP's. I worked up a load using Varget and all of the loads I tried did stabilized the 60 gr. bullets just fine. I did notice that the groups tightened up slightly as I worked up. I only had a 65 yd. test range but didn't notice any keyholing of the bullets and all groups were under an inch. So plenty accurate for hunting. Not a one holer like the 50 gr. bullets though.

Later I did get the chance to try them at about 325 yards. I killed about half a dozen water filled milk jugs without a miss, and didnt have any noticeable problems with stability that I could tell, just had to holdover a little more than with the lighter bullets. I didn't have a shooting bench or a paper target set up for the 325 yd. test so I cant say what groups would have measured. But i think it stabilizes the hornadys just fine.

One thing that should be taken into considereation is that the Nosler PArtition 60 gr bullet measures 0.790" and the Hornady SP is about 0.755", so there is a small possibility that the longer Nosler may not stabilize. I think I will go out and buy a box of Noslers and see how they do. Hope this helps someone.

murphjup
August 23, 2011, 09:42 AM
Cool Jagwire!! I loaded some up as well, But I have not shot them yet... I still will keep you posted here...

:)

jagwire
September 17, 2011, 05:58 PM
I bought a box of 60 gr. Nosler Partitions for my Ruger 77, 22-250. I loaded some up and was only able to test them today at a 65 yd. test firing range. They shot quite well. I have a picture of the best group of the three groups I shot today.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73847&stc=1&d=1316299489

The bullets arent keyhholing and they arent patterning at this short distance. I didn't have a chance to try them at a more acceptable range. 65yds. is not even scratching the surface of what this cartridge is capable of. I will update the post when I shoot them at a longer range.

But it does look like the 1:14 twist barrel will at least stabilize the 60 gr. I am curious to see what they will do at 200, 300 and 400 yds. The point of impact is a few inches low when compared to my varmint load of 50 gr. Nosler BT's.

jagwire
September 26, 2011, 11:05 PM
Well i have some bad news. I tried my Nosler partition loads out at 200 and 300 yds. Even though they grouped really tight at the short ranges, as seen in my earlier post, they opened up a lot out at 200. I'm talking to 5" groups. 300 was worse, only two of the three were on the paper. Just to be sure that it wasnt a problem with the rifle, I fired two groups using my varmint load of 50 gr. Nosler BT's at 300 yds. The first group was 1.5" and the second was 1.25". Actually the two best groups I have ever shot at 300 yds. So no, not a rifle problem.

I think the 60 gr. Partition is too long to be stabilized adequately in a 1:14 barrel. I didn't see any keyholing but accuracy really suffered at decent range. It was worth a try I guess. I think I will try some 55 gr. Sierra Gamekings and see if they shoot any better.

Unclenick
September 27, 2011, 09:48 AM
Looks like you're running them right on the ragged edge of stability, very close to a stability factor of 1.000. In that situation it could take another couple hundred more yards for actual tumbling and keyholing to show up.

Did you fire any 100 yard groups the same day as the 200 and 300? If you're on the edge of stability, a little bit higher barometric pressure or a little lower temperature and the air can become enough more dense to drag you closer to or very slightly over the stability line.

In any event, you've certainly proven these are not spinning fast enough to go sleep.

Doodlebugger45
September 27, 2011, 01:31 PM
Interesting thread. I have a 1:12 twist Savage. The 22-250 is my newest reloading cartridge so I haven't experimented much with it. I do know that it shoots 52 gr AMax bullets astonishingly accurately when using Varget powder. I have ordered some 55 gr bullets for my next test. I am wondering how it will do with a 60 or 62 gr bullet at some point.

Unclenick
September 27, 2011, 05:27 PM
12" is better than 14" in that regard. You should do OK as long as the length isn't stretched out extra long. A flat base design is usually a little shorter for a given weight, and can work where a boattail the same weight won't.

jagwire
October 2, 2011, 11:53 AM
So after I found that my rifle wouldnt stabilize a 60 gr. Nosler PArtition well enoough for good accuracy I decided to try the 55 gr. Sierra Gameking SBT. After a long search I finally found a box in stock. It appears this is an extremely popular bullet. They all seemed out of stock. Loaded with a charge of 34.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget, this bullet shot 1.5" groups at 200 yds. So I think this will be my load for deer this fall. I did shoot some water filled milk jugs from 200 out to 385 yds. Accuracy seemed to be very acceptable even a 385. Whats good is that the trajectory seems very similar to my stanadard varmint load. Both loads zeroed at 200 yds hit in the same place. So no need to change zero when switching ammunition. I am actually very impressed with the products that I have purchased from Sierra, very good quality.