View Full Version : German semi-auto identification
October 1, 2000, 10:14 AM
Does anyone know the identification of the following handgun? :
A co-worker was looking to sell a few handguns, two semis and one revolver. One of the semis was a German made gun that I couldn't identify.
It is a .32ACP semi-auto about the size of a Baby Browning (i.e., two finger grip). It looks remotely like a PPK. The slide tapers towards the end more like a Makarov. Although I did not attempt to disassemble the gun, I would guess that the recoil spring is concentric with the barrel. When looking at the left side of the gun, there is a safety button in the upper right of the fram, just below the slide. Unlike most safeties, when depressed, the button releases the entire backstrap which springs out and serves as the actual grip safety. It is similar to the HK P7's frontstrap except it stays depressed when the backstrap is release, leaving the gun in the fire-ready mode. When the safety is engaged, I do not know if the internal striker is uncocked. (There are no protrusions from the rear of the slide to indicate cocked conditions.)
The overall fit and finish of the gun is very good. The only identifying marks noted were 'Deutsche Waffen' on the slide and 'DW' on the plastic grips. (Note : Not DWM.) I do not recall the S/N. Some pitting, I would guess 90%.
ID and value? Any information would be appreciated.
He also had a Colt 1903 .38ACP Pocket Hammer.
- Ron V.
October 2, 2000, 07:24 AM
Can you provide the stampings on the pistol, this would help in the research.
October 2, 2000, 03:48 PM
Are you sure it does not say "Deutsche Werke-Werk Erfurt" rather than "Deutsche Waffen". If it says "Deutsche Werke" it should also say "Ortgies' Patent". If it has those markings it is the pistol commonly called the Ortgies. Check, and if it is an Ortgies, I will provide further information. Meantime, suggest he not try to disassemble the gun; it is tricky to take apart and trickier to put back together.
October 2, 2000, 07:11 PM
'"Are you sure it does not say "Deutsche Werke-Werk Erfurt" rather than "Deutsche Waffen".'
Ooo, I think you're right, Jim. DAMN MY SHORT TERM MEMORY. I'll get the co-worker to bring it back in and I'll note everything in detail for you and Harley.
Thanks for the work so far.
- Ron V.
October 4, 2000, 08:52 PM
Sorry, co-worker forgot to bring it in today. Will try again tomorrow.
- Ron V.
October 5, 2000, 08:19 PM
Would you believe a Mauser 1914 or 1934? How about a CZ27 made between 1939 and 1945?
October 5, 2000, 10:17 PM
Maybe, but neither of those would say "Deutsche" anything, nor do they have grip safeties.
October 6, 2000, 10:07 AM
Does it have any grip screws? It sounds like an Ortgies except an Ortgies is larger than a Baby Browning. The Ortgies' grip panels are held on by hidden springs.
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
October 8, 2000, 07:03 PM
Well, the co-worker has forgotten to bring it back in again. BUT....I did go to a gun show and I'll be danged but someone had the same gun there for sale (except it was chambered for .25ACP). It is an Ortgies, Jim. He seller/dealer had said that .32ACP was actually the more common chambering. Can you guys give amy additional information on the design? My firearms references are pretty limited. It was being sold at $165 (but would come down to $150).
Thanks guys. Sorry about the size comparisons with the Baby Browning. I was going from memory with that one too, and you know my memory.
- Ron V.
October 9, 2000, 09:26 PM
Since no gun owner can live without at least field stripping any gun that comes near, a few (?) words on the Ortgies.
This is one of the simplest designs ever put together but has a few tricks.
The little button on the side serves two purposes. When the gun is cocked, pushing it lets the grip safety pop out. The grip safety is the only safety on the gun and when in the outward position it must be pressed in to allow the gun to fire.
Check the gun to be sure it is unloaded. Then press in the button and pull the rear of the slide back and straight up. The slide can then be raised and removed forward over the barrel, like the Walther PP. Make sure no parts, like the firing pin spring and guide jump out and get lost.
The barrel can be removed by turning it out of engagement with the frame. By this I mean turning the barrel so it looks like it is shooting to the side, not "turning" it along its axis.
To remove the grips, look into the back of the magazine well and notice what looks like a flat plate about 1/2 inch long. Press this in (toward the rear of the gun) with a screwdriver and the grips will come off. DO NOT PRY the grips; you will break them.
To replace grips, hook the front end into the frame, then press the catch again and let one grip drop into place. Release the catch. You may want to do this with one grip while watching from the other side before trying it with both grips.
If you have removed the barrel replace it in the obvious way.
Now comes replacing the slide. You cannot replace the slide without locking the firing pin. To do so, look inside the slide and you will see a little half moon notch in the top of the slide just behind the firing pin tunnel. Insert the firing pin, its spring and guide into the tunnel from the rear. Then with a small screwdriver, push the rear of the guide forward and down into the notch. It should stay there. With the recoil spring in place around the barrel, put the slide around the barrel and pull back and down until the locking catch locks into the slide. Pull the slide to the rear to disengage the firing pin spring guide from the notch in the slide.
The gun should now be functional.
October 9, 2000, 10:13 PM
Thank you very much Jim.
- Ron V.
October 10, 2000, 09:07 AM
If you find you need parts, the folks at Marstar in Canada have the only supply I'm aware of. Their Ortieges page is at:
Where you can find several diagrams and other useful info.
That's a good price - the lowest I've found one is $200.
October 11, 2000, 08:12 PM
Whoa, thanks for the link, Ken.
- Ron V.
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