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View Full Version : Having trouble with a M44 Mosin Nagant.


T-90
July 18, 2011, 08:51 AM
Yesterday I did some shooting. Two of my friends and I did some plinking around. Anyway I took my 1945 M44 Mosin Nagant. We were shooting 180 gr. AP Hungarian ammo. I believe it was a batch from the mid-60's. Well anyway all three of us a decent marksman. I mean nothing to write home about, but nothing terrible. LOL

Anyway long story short, even at 15 and 20 yards we had a heck of a time trying to even group with this Mosin. I mean it was all over the place!!! :confused:

Now I can't blame the rifle because I have another friend who is actually pretty damn good with it. I just can't figure out what we were doing wrong. I know 15-20 yards is very short range for that type of firearm. My buds had never shot one so I thought I would let them give it a whirl.

Do you think maybe it was the ammo? The rifle? Any :confused:ideas?

tobnpr
July 18, 2011, 09:06 AM
Mosins are known to be sighted in "high"...
Did you keep the same point of aim every shot?

It's not so much "where" the POI is, but whether it is somewhat consistent.

Given that you friend shoots the rifle well, you can rule out the rifle. That leaves the shooter, and the ammo.

rickyrick
July 18, 2011, 12:22 PM
Flinching?

Prince55
July 18, 2011, 03:55 PM
I have a 1946 that I've had for about 15 years and never shot and
looks as new.
I read somewhere once that the model 44 carbines were designed
and sighted to shoot better with the bayonet extended.
Sounds crazy but might be worth a try.

Good luck

T-90
July 18, 2011, 06:15 PM
Yeah, we shot it with the bayonet extended.

Went back out to site it in today. Really had to drift the front site to the left and it is still hit to the left a bit at 20 yards. Also had the rear site leaf up at the 300 meter marker and it was hitting about 6-7 inches below the point we were aiming at!! This is at 20 yards!!!

sigshepardo
July 18, 2011, 07:50 PM
Ive been a Nagant owner for years. I can say that is is most likely the ammo. Its best to just keep thoes cans sealed and go buy new ammo. My 91/30 always liked Winchester.

Murrdock
July 18, 2011, 07:59 PM
Maybe a worn out barrel? I mean ammo can effect the accuracy greatly, but at 20 yards? A shotgun slug out of a smooth barrel can make "tight" groups at 20 yards...

fatwhiteboy
July 18, 2011, 09:45 PM
Maybe you were temporarily blinded by the muzzle blast...

.300 Weatherby Mag
July 18, 2011, 10:13 PM
Crap ammo... Also, when is the last time you cleaned the copper out of the barrel?? I've seen Mosins fouled horribly with copper...

MikeG
July 18, 2011, 11:25 PM
Really had to drift the front site to the left and it is still hit to the left a bit at 20 yards.

IIRC, you move the front sight the opposite direction that you want to move the POI.
Second, since the trajectory is an arc, 20 yards may be to close for it to shoot to the point of aim
Last, try different ammunition, check the stock isn't pressing on the barrel anywhere and make sure the action screws are tight.

tobnpr
July 19, 2011, 01:59 PM
Second, since the trajectory is an arc, 20 yards may be to close for it to shoot to the point of aim

Given that the line of the bore is already below the sight line, the barrel needs to be canted upwards even at that short distance. Bullets fly straight...unless you make them fly in a parabola by raising the end of the barrel.

T-90
July 19, 2011, 02:10 PM
Just got done giving it one royal cleaning. I might not have had it cleaned all the way initially. Spent two hours cleaning the bore and I still have a bit of copper and powder build up. :mad:

amflyer
July 19, 2011, 03:47 PM
Mike G:

I think he said that the had to move the front to the left (because he needs the POI to move right) but it is still printing to the left.

Clear as mud, right?

As for the poor group, my guess would be the trigger.

chris in va
July 19, 2011, 11:53 PM
You should have seen how far I had to jam the front sight over on my M38 before it got on paper. Even then I didn't bother shooting paper with it, just whatever I could hit at 200 yards.

You need to extend the bayonet on the M44. Something to do with the harmonics.

yustinus1973
July 20, 2011, 06:01 PM
My M44 recoiled like sun of a buch. I fill kind of wussy for saying that, but if you have ever shot a full bore military rifle from that time period than you know than they can kick like hell. So for the most part i just shot my M91, got very nice groups with it. Good ammo is a pain to find with Mosins, but i did like my M44 when i had it.

SurplusShooter
July 20, 2011, 07:56 PM
Start it at 20 yards and try it with the bayonet out.

pvt.Long
July 20, 2011, 08:42 PM
The mosins ive dealt with shoot a little high. Its your ammo,some of the mil surp is great some good some not worth the paper the recipt you got for it is printed on.

doofus47
July 22, 2011, 09:45 AM
I took the bayonet off of my M44 and it shot fine.
Apparently, my mileage varied, but I think that the requirement to extend the bayo is a myth.

Clean the bore; make sure that the rifle is solidly against your shoulder the same way every time. Breathe out.

It could also be the ammo; I shot surplus yugo(?I think...?) fmj 196 grain and S&B commercial sp 196 and my groups were as good as I would expect from a military rifle.

don't compare the groups to your buddy's if he is shooting a .223 AR; his will be tighter.

khegglie
July 22, 2011, 01:31 PM
mine shoots to the same point w/wo the bayonet extended.