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Hard Ball
April 25, 2000, 06:48 PM
How can you tell the difference between the various models of the Krag? (1892 vs 1896 for example)

Herodotus
April 25, 2000, 08:48 PM
I believe the the models of 1896, 1898 and 1899 simply say this on the reciever, i.e. Model 1896, Model 1898, Model 1899.
The 1892's do not say Model. They just have a year date between 1892 and up to 1896 (?) on carbines: i.e. 1893 Springfield Armory Serial #.
There are probably complications to this if you get into it deeply, but this is the general pattern.

Harley Nolden
April 26, 2000, 05:49 AM
Hard Ball:
From the Book of Rifles

KRAG-JORGENSEN
Designer: Ole Krag
Model: 1889 Infantry Rifle:
Country of Origin: Norway
Mfg: Gevaerfabriken Kjobenhavn &
Kobenhavns Tojhus, Copenhagen
1890-1915
Haerens Tajhus Copenhagen
1915-1921
Quantity: 118,000
Cal: 8X58mm rimmed
Length: 52.28
Wt: 9.5 lb
Action: Turnbolt
Mag: Hor. Hinged Bx
Cap: 5rnd
Bbl Length: 32.78
Bore Dia: . 315
Grooves: 6 RH polygonal
Groove Dia: . 329
Twist: Right
Rate of Twist: 11.8"
M-Velocity: 600m/sec w/m89 ball ctg

The Krag bolt action rifle has a distinctive case magazine in the receiver beneath the bolt feeding cartridges laterally. The Danish loading gate hinges forward; US and Norwegian patterns
hinge down.. The comparatively weak one lug action, caused the rapid replacement of the US Krag Jorgensen by the .30 Springfield magazine rifle, which was a modified Mauser. Most of the Danish and Norwegian guns however lasted into the 1950's.

Denmark
1887: Aware that their standard Remington rolling block infantry rifles were obsolete, the Danes looked for an alternative. Five hundred Lee-type forsogsrepeterbevar M/a repeating trials rifle, were issued in April but, though reports indicated great superiority over the Remingtons, the rifle commission was not convinced.

1889: Accepted in June the original rifle was sighed for the 8mm m/89 cartridge, with 250mtr standing block and leaf graduated to 1,800mtr. There were not safety features other than the half cock notch.

1890: The first series made guns were accepted on 19 Jan, with bulk deliveries starting in the summer.

1908: On 19 Sept. Denmark adopted the pointed bullet in 08mm with a muzzle velocity of 750m/sec and the sights were modified to give a max. range of 2,100mtr.

Model: 1889 Calvary Carbine
Other Names: Rytterkarabin
Mfg: Kobenhavns Tojhus of Copenhagen
Year of Mfg: 1912-1913
Quantity: 2,600
Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed
Action: same as 1889 rifle
Length: 1,100mm
Weight: 4.04kg
Barrel Length: 600mm
Grooves: 6 RH polygonal
Magazine: Internal pan 5 round
M-Velocity: 620m/sec w/08 ball ctg


1912: The standard Danish cavalry carbine or Ryttergebar M/89 was a shortened version of the infantry rifle, which was adapted after experiments that had lasted for many years.

Model: 1889 Engineer Carbine.
Mfg:Haerens Tojhus of Copenhagen 1917-1918.
Quantity: 4,000
Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed

1917: Approved as a rifle. Though resembling the contemporary cavalry carbine, it had barrel bands closer to the muzzle and accepted a bayonet. There was only a single production run, gun numbers being prefixed by "I". The earliest issues were made in May 1918.

1914: The rifle was re-classified as a carbine.

Model: 1889/23 Cavalry Carbine
Mfg: Haerens Rustkammer,
Coenhagen.
Mfg Year: 1923-26
Quantity: 4,600
Caliber: 8X58mm Rimmed
Action: Same as 1889 Cavalry Carbine

1922: Experimental short Krag Jorgensens, made for border guards and customs service.

1923: Additional trials led to the approval of the M/89-23 rifles. Most were converted from old M/89-23 rifles. All exhibit Rasmussen polygonal rifling, abandoned in 1925.


Model: 1898-24 Infantry Carbine
Mfg: Same as 23
Mfg Year: 1932-40

Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed
Action: Turn-bolt w/single lock lug
Length: 1,105mm
Weight: 3.96kg
Magazine: Internal Pan 5 rounds
M-Velocity: 620m/sec w/08 ball ctgs.

1923: First examples of this short rifle were converted from old infantry patterns. Back sights were replaced, but the barrel jacket and the original band arrangements were retained.

Converted weapons were given an "F" prefix to their Sn's and can be distinguished b;y old marks on the receiver GEVAERFABRIKEN KJOBENHAVN 1893 M.89.

1925: Polygonal rifling was abandoned in favor of a more conventional four groove concentric.


Model: 1898-24 Artillery Carbine
Mfg: Rustkammer Copenhagen
Year of Mfg. 1925-30
Quantity: 5,000 including conversions
Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed

NORWAY

Model: 1894 Infantry Rifle
Country of Origin: Norway
Designer: Ole Krag
Mfg: Steyr 1895-98 29,000guns
FN 1895
Kongsberg 1896-1935, 125,000
Caliber: 6.5X55mm Rimless
Action: Turnbolt
Length: 1,260mm
Weight: 4.05kg
Barrel Length: 760mm
Grooves: 4 LH concentric
M-Velocity: 730m/sec


From 1894 forward, Norway manufactured the Krag in caliber
6.5X55mm.

Model: 1895 Cavalry Carbine
Mfg: Kongsberg 1896-1912
Quantity: 5,000
Caliber: 6.5X55mm Rimless
Length: 1,015mm
Weight: 3.4kg
Barrel Length: 520mm
Grooves: 4 LH concentric
M-Velocity: 640m/sec W/m23 ball


Model: 1897 Mountain Artillery and
Engineer Carbine
Mfg: Kongsberg 1897-1911
Quantity: less than 2,000
Caliber: 6.5X55mm


Model: 1904 Engineer Carbine
Mfg: Kongsberg Vapenfabrik
Year of Mfg: 1904-15
Quantity: 3,000 Aprox
Action: same as 1894
Length: 520mm
Weight: 3.81kg
Magazine: Internal Pan 5 round
Barrel Length: 520mm
Grooves: 4 LH concentric
M-velocity: 640m/sec w/M/1923 ball


Model: 1907 Field Artillery
Mfg: Same as 1904
Year of Mfg: 1907-15
Quantity: 2,000
Action: 1894
Length: "
Barrel Length: "
Grooves: "
M-Velocity: "

Introduced to replace the M/1895 cavalry casrbine in the field artillery. Identical to M1904 except for the position of the swivels.

Model:1912 Short Rifle
Quantity:30,120
Length:1,106mm
Weight: 4.02kg
Barrel Lenght: 610mm
M-Velocity: 710m/sec w/M1923 ball

Model: M1904 Engineer Carbine
Mfg: Kongsberg
Year of Mfg: 1904-15
Caliber: 6.5X55mm rimless
Length: 1.015mm
Weight: 3.8kg
Barrel Length: 520mm
Grooves: LH concentric
M-Velocity: 640m/sec w/1923 ball

Similar to the 1897. Major differences was in the stock and
added barrel bands.


Model: 1907 Field Artillery Carbine
Mfg: Same as above
Year of Mfg: 1907-15
Quantity: 2,000
Caliber: 6.5X55mm rimless


All other specifications are the same as the 1904.


Model: 1912
Mfg: Same as above
Year of Mfg: 1912-35
Quantity: 30,120
Length: 1,106mm
Weight: 4.02kg
Barrel Length: 610mm
Grooves: 4 LH Concentric
M-Velocity: 710m/sec w/1923 ball


UNITED STATES

Model: 1892
Other Names: 30-40 Krag
Mfg: National Armory Spngfld Mass
Mfg Year: 1894-97
Quantity: 24,560
Caliber: 30-40
Action: Turn-Bolt
Magazine: Internal Pan 5 rounds
Length: 49.01"
Weight: 9.38lb
Barrel Length: 30.00"
Grooves: 4 RH concentric
M-Velocity: 2,000fps


The caliber .45-70 single shot "trapdoor" Springfield rifles and carbines had served the US for quite some time from 1873, when it was adopted. In the 1880's, however, the army was discontented with the springfield "trapdoor" and felt that a smokeless pwder caratridge and a repeating rifle were needed. Most of the other world powers had already adopted these changes, including France (8mm 1886), Germany (8mm 1888), England (.303, 1888), and Belgium
(7.65mm in 1889).

A committee was organized to look into a rifle and a cartridge, to determine which would be satisfactory and be produced for the army. Sometime in about 1890 some 53 rifles were submitted for this testing.


Among the rifles submitted were the Lee magazine rifle, Mauser (Belgian M1889), Swiss Rubin, French; Berth;ier, German Commission M1888 Manlicher, Savage and Krag-Jorgenson. The
results of this testing accepted the Krag Jorgenson, with some modifications, being adopted in 1892, with a roy

1890: With the advances being made by Germany, in Europe, the US decided to hold a competition to find a suitable small-bore, magazine rifle.

1892: Trials with more than fifty guns were concluded in August. Submissions presented had been several Krag-Jorgensen
rifles.
Krag #1 8mm Danish M89
#2 .30 cal
#3 .30 cal (greater head space)
#4 .30 cal (dust cover o/bolt)
#5 #4 (no dust cover)
#6 .30 rimless

The trials resolved in favor of Lee #3, Belgian type Mauser #5 and Krag #5. The Krag was preferred as the magazine could be topped-off when the bolt was shut on a loaded chamber.

Adopted in Sept. of 1892, with production deferred while trials were being undertaken W/additional rifles.

1894: Assembled @ the Springfield Armory in January, with issue being delayed until October.

1897: This model of the 1892 were altered to the 1896 models after March and can be identified by filled rod channels in the fore-end.

Model: 1896 Infantry Rifle
Mfg: Springfield Armory
Year of Mfg: 1896-89
Quantity: 62,000
Caliber: 30-40 rimmed
Length: 49.10"
Weight: 8.94lb
Barrel Length: 30"
Grooves: 4 RH concentric
M-Velocity: 2,000fps w/1895 ball


Model: 1896 Cavalry Carbine
Mfg: Springfield Armory
Year of Mfg: 1896-89
Quantity: 22,500
Caliber: 34-40 rimmed
Length: 41.15"
Weight: 7.75lb
Barrel Length: 22"
Groove: 4 RH concentric
M-Velocity: 1,750fps w/1895 ball


Model: 1898 Infantry Rifle
Mfg: Sprinfield Armory
Year of Mfg: 1898-1904
Quantity: 62,000
Caliber: 30-40 rimmed
Length: 49.13"
Weight: 9lb
Barrel length: 30"
Grooves: 4 RH concentric
M-velocity: 2,200fps w/Hi-velocity ball


Model: 1898 Cavalry Carbine
Mfg: Springfield Armory
Year of Mfg: 1898-89
Quantity: 5000
Length: 41.14"
Weight: 7.80lb
Caliber: 34-40
Barrel Length: 22"
Grooves: 4 RH concentric
M-Velocity: 1,970fps w/1898 ball


Model: 1899 Cavalry Carbine
Mfg: Springfield Armory
Year of Mfg: 1899-1904
Quantity: 36,050
Weight: 7.87lb
All other characteristics same as 1898

Model: Philippine Constabulary
Carbine type short rifle
Mfg: Springfield Armory
Year of Mfg: 1906-10
Mfg: Rock Island Arsenal
Year of Mfg: 1908-10
Mfg: Manila Ordnance Depot
Year of Mfg: 1910-14
Caliber: 30-40 rimmed
Action: As 1892
Length: 41.15"
Weight: 8.03lb
Barrel Length: 22"
Grooves: 4 RH concentric
M-Velocity: 1,750fps w/1892 ball

9,450 were converted in 1907-14 to provide native troops in the Philippines with rifles befitting their small stature.

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 26, 2000).]

James K
April 26, 2000, 01:33 PM
Hi, guys,

Read Harley's posting for some great backgound and basic information.

On details, Herodotus is basically correct, although the Model 1892 will have only the dates 1894 and 1895, since production did not start until 1894. The original Model 1892 has a cleaning rod that extends from the stock below the muzzle, but most were modified to Model 1896 configuration in the 1897-1900 time frame. The original Model 1892 also has a handguard that does not extend back over the receiver ring as do the later models.

The Model 1896 is probably the most common rifle encountered. It can be recognized by either the 1896 date on the early ones or the Model 1896 marking.

The next rifle is the Model 1898. It is recognized by the marking and by the absence of the bolt lug seat on the receiver.

Carbines are more confusing. There was no Model 1892 carbine issued; there was a Model 1896 carbine, a Model 1898 carbine and a Model 1899 carbine.

Rear sights are a whole area of study in themselves. Each model originally had its own type sight, but the Army kept changing and upgrading.

Anyone contemplating purchase of a Krag carbine should be aware that far more were made outside Springfield Armory than inside. There were cases of rifles altered to carbines or short rifles by the Army (the so called NRA carbines and the Philippine Constabulary rifles) but many carbines and short rifles are fakes.

It is easy to pay big bucks and later find that the "rare variation" is simply a cut up rifle of less value than if it had not been touched.

If you are thinking of collecting Krags, you will find it interesting and rewarding, and some good pieces are still to be found at reasonable prices. But beware! There are many fakes and thrown together guns, with thrown together stories to go along.

Buy books and learn before investing. The best are The Krag Rifle by William S. Brophy, and The Krag Rifle Story by Frank Mallory.

Jim