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Revelation76
July 3, 2011, 02:00 PM
I have a question relating to what I believe is called a "bumpfire", at least in semi autos.
I've seen a couple different Youtube videos where a Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum fires an unintentional quick second shot after the first trigger pull. Apparently this is due to the massive recoil of the gun and the shooter's attempt to control it, resulting in an accidental discharge.

I'm quite a novice myself, having owned an Ruger SP101 .357 for a couple of years now. I have no concern for myself shooting any of the Heavy .357 Mag Buffalo Bore ammo, and really enjoy it.
I'm wondering about lighter .357 Magnum revolvers in the hands of smaller shooters that may not control the gun as well. I know that it's wise to only put one bullet in the cylinder when trying it out for the first time.

Can anyone comment on any .357 Magnum bumpfiring, or is this more of a rarity and something to be more concerned with in more powerful guns in general?

Thanks

32 Magnum
July 3, 2011, 02:17 PM
I think it has more to do with how far your trigger has to return before it "resets". I've fired some very light .357 mag revolvers and have never had a problem of that type. If your gun has had a "trigger and sear" job and has had lightened springs installed it may be more prone to resetting more easily. CORRECT practice takes care of most operator errors with a revolver, so it should with this possible problem, also.

HighValleyRanch
July 3, 2011, 02:20 PM
In a revolver, bump fire equals negligent discharge!

Webleymkv
July 3, 2011, 03:03 PM
In a revolver, bump fire equals negligent discharge!


Actually, the situation described in the OP is one I'd classify as a true accidental discharge since the user is, presumably, following all the rules of gun safety yet has the firearm discharge unintentionally anyway.

As to the original question, I think that a "bumpfire" or "double tap" with a small, light .357 Magnum is unlikely due to the difference in their triggers. The S&W J-Frames, for example, have heavier triggers than the larger S&W revolvers because they require a stiffer mainspring to ensure reliable ignition of primers with their smaller, lighter hammers. Similarly, my dad's Ruger LCR does not have a hevier trigger, but the pull is quite long as is the trigger reset. I think that the combination of a heavier and/or longer trigger stroke would make such a situation far less likely than the phenomenon you describe with a .500.

Lost Sheep
July 3, 2011, 06:08 PM
Bumpfire relating to revolvers?
I have a question relating to what I believe is called a "bumpfire", at least in semi autos.
I've seen a couple different Youtube videos where a Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum fires an unintentional quick second shot after the first trigger pull. Apparently this is due to the massive recoil of the gun and the shooter's attempt to control it, resulting in an accidental discharge.
(edited for brevity)
Can anyone comment on any .357 Magnum bumpfiring, or is this more of a rarity and something to be more concerned with in more powerful guns in general?

Thanks
I heard of a guy killed by the second shot from a 500 Smith being fired by a woman who was not expecting the amount of recoil. The victim was actually standing behind the shooter.

We really need a term defined to identify this type of event. "Bumpfire" is already taken. Chris Byrne on "thefirearmsblog" ( http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/09/13/500-sw-double-taps/ ) called it "trigger doubling" and says he has used that term on his blog "anarchangel" many times. Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_S&W ) describes it thusly: "A double-discharge effect is sometimes observed with the cartridge. The heavy recoil causes some shooters to inadvertently squeeze the trigger as a reflexive action to hold on to the revolver soon after the discharge of the previous round." I think we need something with fewer syllables.

I have never heard of this "doubling" happening with a .357, but imagine the phenomenon could. One factor (just off the top of my head) that make it less likely:

The 500 is huge and heavy, so takes more grip to regain control it once it recoils out of control. That muscle effort makes trigger control more problematic. The lighter, smaller .357s (while the recoil to weight ratio is much the same) are a lot easier to regain control over.

Consider this: The 500 is a 4 pound gun, but a lightweight .357 is a pound or so. Consider those two guns might both have 4 pound triggers. If both are coming back at your forehead at the same speed, it takes a lot less hand squeeze to regain control over the 357 than the 500. So, less inadvertent trigger pull force. There is also a lot less momentum to be wrestled down with the lighter gun.

The somewhat shorter length of trigger pull of the smaller gun does make the problem worse with the smaller revolver, but I think the mass difference wipes that out many times over.

Just brainstorming here.

My experience: I have fired my SP101s, Redhawk 44s, Super Redhawk 454 and Freedom Arms 454 and my friend's 500 S&W many times so have been able to compare those firearms. We have video, too. While my 454s produce more pain in my palm (at least until you get to the 400 grain bullets and larger), in full recoil, the 500 Smith gets a LOT closer to my forehead than any of the other guns.

Lost Sheep

Ozzieman
July 4, 2011, 10:18 AM
I have a Colt Gold Cup that several people that have shot it got several rounds off like a full auto but it was because of the very light trigger and they cushioned the trigger. Which means that they did not pull the trigger through with a firm follow through.
I have never heard about a revolver doing something like that before this thread. And I totally agree with High Valley “bump fire equals negligent discharge!” And it’s the same for people that have fired my Colt.
I have tried over and over and have never been able to reproduce the multiple fire.
I have also shot very heavy guns from the 629’s with 3 inch barrels to the 500 and have never even released the trigger during firing enough to engage the sear.
This is negligence, lack of proper training or a nit wit handing a heavy gun to a novice just to watch the fun that results from the excessive recoil nothing more.
But to the OP, I don’t normally recommend dry firing a gun but the Ruger can take a lot of it. The next time you set down to watch a movie, make sure the gun is unloaded, then check again and dry fire it both single action and double several thousand times. This will build up your trigger finger and get you, used to the trigger.

WESHOOT2
July 4, 2011, 10:48 AM
...bump fire equals negligent discharge... Yes.


...true accidental discharge since the user is, presumably, following all the rules of gun safety yet has the firearm discharge unintentionally... No.


For any unintentional discharge to be "accidental" there must be no human intervention or causation. None.