View Full Version : Unknown Rifle
February 9, 2000, 10:47 PM
Hello, I was wondering if someone would help me identify a very old rifle that my Grandfather brought back from his Navy days.. I found it in a million pieces in one of his old trunks.. All the pieces were there and I put it back together but have no idea what it is.. It does have Russian writing all over it. Please leave email address and I will send some close up pics. Thanks!!
February 10, 2000, 06:44 AM
Email me your pics. I'll try to help.
February 10, 2000, 09:54 PM
Thanks Jim, Pics are on the way...
February 11, 2000, 02:38 AM
FYI, it is a Mosin-Nagant, Model 1891.
February 11, 2000, 10:23 AM
Assem/disassem sent by separate email. Here's a little trivia for the Nagant
MOSIN-NAGANT Infantry Rifle
Mfg: 7.25M Tula 1892-1922
503,540 Chatellerault 1893-1896
770,000 N/England W/House 1915-1917
840,310 Remington 1917-1917
By 1888 Russia had realized that the Berdan rifle was obsolete. Though experimental rifles submitted by Mauser and Kropatschek were tested, the butt magazine Mosin and the Lutkovskly, based on the Berdan were regarded as more promising.
Single and five shot Mosin rifles were submitted for trials in 1889, along some five shot Belgian Nagants. Trials actually began in 1890 with 300 Mosins, 100 Nagants and 100 single shot
Berdans, which were lined down to 7.62mm. The Mosin Nagant being
finally accepted in 1891.
M1891 Dragoon Rifle:
Length: 40" Folded
A/H forces on the Eastern front captured sizeable quantities of Russian rifles, and also received large numbers taken by the Germans.
Guns in A/H service were issued with Russian ammunition. When supplies began to run short, some guns were converted in the Wiener-Neustadt armory for the standard rimmed 8X50mm Austrian round.
China made Mosin-Nagant Type 53 carbines. They; are virtually identical with the Soviet 1944g, but were marked 53 on the receiver and often bore the encircled-triangle mark of factory
Many Russian rifles were captured on the Easter Front during the opening stages of WWI. Some were retained by the German army to serve recruiting depots and lines of communications troops until the end of hostilities. Others went to the navy. A few were converted to handle the stnd. 8mm cartridge, but so much ammunition had been captured that most guns were simply issued
Substantial quantities of Mosin Nagant guns were made by FEG of Budapest in the early 1950's. Production seems to have been confined to good quality copies of the 1944g carbine and 1891/30g sniper rile known as 44M and 48M.
A poor quality copy of the Soviet 1891/30g rifle was made in the 1950's apparently as the Type 30. It was distinguished by a large encircled five point star, preceding the serial number on
the left side of the receiver.
The earliest Polish Mosin Nagant, introduce in the late 1920's was a converted Russian rifle with a new 7.9mm caliber barrel and the magazine altered to feed rimless ammo.
The US purchased more than a million 1891 rifles from Remington- UMC and the New England Westinghouse company in 1918, after the Russian revolution had left the two American companies with huge numbers of unwanted guns and potentially serious financial difficulties. Only280,050 guns were retained for army service, most being used for basic training.
In 1919 substantial numbers of 7.62 Russian pattern rifles equipped the US divisions sent to Archangelsk with allied intervention forces, apparently to ease logistics by allowing
captured ammunition to be used.
February 11, 2000, 03:02 PM
February 14, 2000, 08:36 PM
Any indication that a '38/44 or '44 Carbine was produced by the Finns?
February 15, 2000, 08:04 AM
My records indicate the the Finns declared indipendance from Russia soon after the October Revolution and declared indipencence on 20 July 1919. By 1920 the Finnish arm and Protectrive Corps (Suojeluskuntain Ylieskunnan, or Sk.Y, mustered a hundered thousand men under arms.
Owing to the capture of thounands of Russian rifles in Helsinki armoury, the Mosin Nagant was selected as the standard infantry rifle, toough 8,000 ex German Kar. 98 AZ obtained from the French served the Cavalry until 1923.
The Finns soon began to make changes of their own, but the rifles were always built around the original lpre 1917 Mosin Nagant actins, repaired and refinished in Finland.
My records do indicate that in 1938 the Finns developed a committee from the Dept of Defence, the army and the Sk/Y, to modify the the original configuration of the Nagant. This is the model 1939, short rifle kivaari made by Suojeluskuntain Ase-jaKonepaja Osakeyhitio (Sako) Rihimaki, 1939-44. About 70,800 were mfg'd.
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