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Johnlewisjames
June 17, 2011, 02:46 AM
Hello,

We had this rifle for a long time, i recently had time to check it out, i sent it to be cleaned, and i made a small research about it.
from the W written on it, it seems that the gun is Russian, i would like to know if its true, cuz some of my friends said that it might be asian.
and i would like to know the price of a rifle like that, also if anyone know what the other numbers next to the W mean.
thx

SDC
June 17, 2011, 05:53 AM
The serial number is certainly stamped in Cyrillic, suggesting that it is Russian; the s/n shown is "Sh Z 384", and it follows the Russian practice of two letters followed by three numbers. This is a submachine gun designed by Georgi Shpagin in 1940, and adopted by the Russians in 1941 as the "PPSh41"/"Pistolet-Pulemet Shpagina 1941". There may be a factory mark on the top cover showing when and where this one was built, but they saw widespread manufacture and use through the second half of WW2, and were copied by Russian satellites states and China after WW2. The Chinese and North Korean copies are usually marked in kanji ideographs, and woudn't be using Cyrillic lettering, so I would say it's definitely a Russian example. Has this one been fired, or is there a chance it might be fired? The Germans captured so many of these on the Eastern Front that large numbers of them were converted to 9mm, so make sure that it's in the proper chambering if it goes to the range. If you've got any specific questions, let me know, and I'll look through my Russian books.

Johnlewisjames
June 17, 2011, 06:17 AM
well thank you so much for your reply.
the guy who cleaned it told me its safer not to fire it, i dnt know if its been fired its been sitting in my dad's closet for about 30 years or more.
i dont know how a russian rifle made it to our country, i'm from Lebanon :)
but if i had to guess its been fired a couple of times during the civil war.

Johnlewisjames
June 17, 2011, 06:21 AM
Here's another photo it was made in 1944

Mike Irwin
June 17, 2011, 06:45 AM
that's not a rifle, that's a submachine gun.

The Soviets made something like 10 million of them during and after World War II.

They were, like the AK-47 some years later, very liberally distributed to Soviet satellite states and can be found worldwide.

US/UN troops faced them in Korea and Vietnam.

Value - hard to say given that you're in Lebanon and the laws are very, very different. In the United States, our laws, and the very limited supply of these weapons, conspire to drive the prices to well over $10,000 for the last couple of years.

T. O'Heir
June 22, 2011, 02:21 PM
"...that's a submachine gun..." Yep.
"...dont know how a Russian rifle made it to our country..." Same place all the AK's came from. Gifts from the Russians to the assorted terrorists.

RJay
June 23, 2011, 06:07 PM
JFI, the Russians had the same problem with the PPSh41 as we had with the Thompson. That heavy drum magazine, it was unreliable, heavy and like the drum magazine on the Thompson, it would come unlatched and fall on the ground just when you needed it the most.

James K
June 23, 2011, 06:56 PM
I knew a gentleman, now alas gone, who fought in the Polish underground in WWII. The Russians supplied them with those "Pa Pa Shaw" subguns and he considered them the best of the WWII guns. He had used the MP.38 and MP.40 ("borrowed" from Germans who didn't need them any more); STEN's, provided by the British; PPS's, also from the USSR; and one Thompson. He considered the PPSh the best of the lot.

He admitted not having fired the Thompson much (he later fired mine quite a bit). It was taken from a German motorcycle messenger who was carrying it in a scabbard attached to the bike. One night, the German managed to encounter piano wire that had somehow gotten stretched across a road, and his head went one way, the bike the other, and the Poles got the Thompson. The German had only two magazines (40 rounds) of ammo; the Poles fired that up just to see how the gun felt (they had seen all the gangster movies, too), and then threw the Tommy gun in a lake.

Jim

bamaranger
June 23, 2011, 10:30 PM
There are some pics floating around the web, of US Forces (pretty sure) clearing a house and one is carrying a PPsH

Mike Irwin
June 23, 2011, 10:48 PM
"That heavy drum magazine, it was unreliable, heavy and like the drum magazine on the Thompson, it would come unlatched and fall on the ground just when you needed it the most."

For a drum, the PPSh mag was quite reliable (it was based on the turbo-reliable Finnish Suomi design), and it gave quite the reserve of firepower, which was appreciated.

But, it was heavy, and it was complex to manufacture.

Later in the war it was common practice for Russian soldiers to go into battle with the drum mounted, and once it was dry discard it and go to 30 round stick magazines that had originally been designed for the PPS 42.

Usertag
June 23, 2011, 11:03 PM
I'm gonna put my bet that it is the russian version. U love the PPSH. But its not very durable. And the way it has to be held is not very ergonomic. And it overheats at a fast rate. Not to be a hater.

Mike Irwin
June 24, 2011, 06:09 AM
"But its not very durable."

:confused:

The PPSh was noted for it's simplicity, reliability, and durability, especially in the unbelievably harsh Russian winters and in the hands of virtually untrained conscript troops.

It would overheat quickly -- that's a factor of its small caliber, high-intensity cartridge and its very high rate of fire. But, it was meant to be fired in short bursts, and the bolt stayed locked back between shots, allowing more rapid cooling.