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View Full Version : I thought Cerakote was more than just "paint"


C0untZer0
June 10, 2011, 03:27 PM
I have heard people talk about it in the same breath as NP3 - like it was equal or better than NP3...

Dfariswheel
June 10, 2011, 07:04 PM
Ceracoat is a "paint type" coating, Np3 is an electroless nickel coating.

Do some reading and give Cogan a call. They'll tell you the straight of it:

http://www.apwcogan.com/plating-and-refinishing/finishes-applied-finishes-o.html

http://www.robarguns.com/precision_coatings.htm

Hunter Customs
June 10, 2011, 09:17 PM
I thought Cerakote was more than just "paint"

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I have heard people talk about it in the same breath as NP3 - like it was equal or better than NP3...

You might want to check out the results the FBI had with Cerakote and one of their HS Precision sniper rifles they tried it on.

It amazes me the people that will spend big money on a custom 1911 and then let someone con them in to painting that custom gun.

There's a lot of good professional finishes out there, both dark and silver, I don't see paint as being one them.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

publius
June 10, 2011, 10:06 PM
I don't know of anything that's the equal of NP3. Darn sure isn't any of the DIY coatings. None of them impress me.

C0untZer0
June 11, 2011, 12:26 PM
I can't find what the FBI says about Cerakote... just Googling it at least...

Do they think it's the best or do they say it sucked?

GURU1911
June 11, 2011, 04:14 PM
Dude: You still struggling with the refinishing questions? I was under the impression that you & i shared enough info regarding your plating requirements, and you had finally settled on the robar "np3" ?????? Maybe i am the one who is confused here.

Have you noticed how many other shooters in this forum recommend the robar "np3" ???? Ever think there might be a reason why ??????

The "np3" or the new "poly-t2" as applied by robar, should satisfy 100% of your plating requirements for anything i can imagine which might be in your gunsafe.

Seriously, me & the other fellows are really trying to help by steering you in the right direction.

Guru1911

C0untZer0
June 11, 2011, 06:19 PM
I am not going to use Cerakote, mainly because it does not have the lubricity of NP3 and that's what I want. But also just because I don't like the way it looks. In my opinion - it looks like Krylar spraypaint and it's just not attractive.

I've never seen an ugly NP3 firearm. I've seen some horrible Cerakotes - I'm not just talking about bad choice of colors - one guy can think his camo job is pure genius and I look and it and think "That's great, you took a perfectly fine pistol and made it look like a dog t*** in grass" I'm not talking about bad color schemes. I mean I've seen pictures where it looks like too much product has pooled or collected - especially in between slide serrations.

it's more of a curiosity with me. NP3+ seems like a very high-tech coating process. Cerakote seems like painting.

But when I was at my LGS today I asked the guy behind the counter which he thought was a better finish - he said "Cerakote hands down". I know that's just one guy's opinion, but there do seem to be a lot of people who think it's the best coating as far as durability and corrosion resistance.

Dfariswheel
June 11, 2011, 06:27 PM
Again, if you're talking to people on the internet or in gun shops, all you're getting is amateur opinions.

Like I told you, call the PROFESSIONALS at places like APW/Cogan or Robar and ask what the PROS recommend.
They do this for a living and have been doing it for years. NO ONE knows more about it then these people do.

APW/Cogan apparently is really good about talking to people, and all you have to do is ask him about this. They aren't going to lie to you.
They'll tell you straight up the good points and the bad about any gun finish.

GURU1911
June 11, 2011, 10:44 PM
Count, listen to what mr. Wheel is saying to you---btw: Wheel well said & right on point with your comments regarding what the pro-finishers have to say regarding what works the best. Let a professional plater take care of this chore for you. The results will be much better, your level of personal satisfaction will be higher, & you will enjoy the performance of your firearm, long after the $$$$$$$ to have it plated is forgotten.

Guru1911

Bill DeShivs
June 12, 2011, 01:22 AM
Here's a professional opinion.
Plating your gun with nickel (NP3) is a much more durable option than any of the paint finishes-and they ARE paint.
Plating with hard chrome is even better.
Coating with one of the nitride coatings is the best option.

ClydeFrog
June 12, 2011, 01:52 AM
I looked over the super cool high tech Glock pistol chart where you can view different colors-styles of Cerakote/NIC. The link/NIC area is here if you want to play with it; www.APWcogan.com . I looked into NIC in 2007 but chose to use Robar's NP3 for my new 96D .40S&W pistol. I'd give high marks to Robar's black oxide or NP3+ for steel/metal type firearms(not alloy or polymer). It helps with cleaning-service too. For most combat or duty type weapons I'd look at www.Bearcoat.com www.Black-T.com www.Robarguns.com or APW(Accurate Plating & Weaponry).
I'd also heard Metal-Life's a good treatment but I never used it.

Clyde
ps; For the record, the "earth brown" & "federal brown" colors do look cool, to me. A mud brown slide with a OD frame would be a real slick look & get a lot of notice on the range, I'd bet. :)

Hunter Customs
June 12, 2011, 11:29 AM
I can't find what the FBI says about Cerakote... just Googling it at least...

Do they think it's the best or do they say it sucked?

I don't think the FBI would rate Cerakote as the best option for a finish seeing that it ruined one of their sniper rifles.

I heard that HS Precision was not to happy either as they were the ones that built the rifle and warned the FBI as to what would happen if they used the paint.

The way I got it is, that Cerakote has ceramic particles in the paint, as the paint wears off the ceramic particles cuts the metal they are in contact with, much like using a coarse lapping compound.
The FBI sniper rifle had both the bolt lugs and recess in the receiver cut by the ceramic particles.
Now I was not there when the testing on different finishes was done by the FBI, so the above information I received second hand.

Now do not confuse the use of a ceramic coating such as DLC with ceramic paint, they are two different things altogether.
DLC bonds with the metal and gives a very hard coating I believe around 98 on a Rockwell C scale.
For a dark finish it's a good choice, if you don't mind a silver finish hardchrome is a very good choice it will have a Rockwell C rating of around 72.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

oregonshooter
June 13, 2011, 08:29 PM
I'm a certified Cerakote applicator and will tell you straight up that Cerakote is NO WHERE NEAR the durability of bonding applications like NP3, Ionbond (I've heard bad things about it though), hard chrome, etc.

They are two different animals. There is a lot of hype out there about cerakote. I've tried and continue to dispel it on my website http://cerakote.info

If you want pretty colors or camo that sticks better than any other "paint", then Cerakote is your product. It is better than the other kotes, but worlds away from platings.

If I wanted the toughest black finish I could put on my handgun it would be DLC. If I wanted a lighter color it would be NP3.

plouffedaddy
June 15, 2011, 12:30 PM
CCR refinishing is another electroless nickel finish that I've had great experiences with. I have a Glock done by Robar and it's great too, but I think CCR's CPII is just as good for less money. I've had my G30 and a 1911 finished by CCR and the parts have great natural lubricity, clean easily (obviously), and have 0 wear marks through thousands of rounds. The stuff seems every bit as good as Robar's NP3 for less money. That's just my $.02.

Scorch
June 15, 2011, 03:17 PM
My experience with Cerakote is rather mixed. I love the look and feel of it, but it does not burnish down and become as slick as GunKote. It also requires baking between coats if you are going to do a camo pattern, whereas GunKote can be stenciled, layered, and generally tampered with in process so you end up baking it just once, a huge time saver. While I am sure Cerakote is superior in some way (yes, I have read all the claims on their site), it chips easily, it spiderwebs if you hit the surface against something hard, and it sags easily during application. For my money, the NP3 will outperform it, and GunKote is easier.

oregonshooter- I have about $150 worth of Cerakote finish, thinner, and catalyst (all unopened except one). If you would like them, I will sell the whole shebang to you for $100, and I will even pay the shipping to you.

plouffedaddy
June 15, 2011, 07:09 PM
Here are the G30 and the PT1911AL with CPII slides.

oregonshooter
June 15, 2011, 07:31 PM
oregonshooter- I have about $150 worth of Cerakote finish, thinner, and catalyst (all unopened except one). If you would like them, I will sell the whole shebang to you for $100, and I will even pay the shipping to you.

Thanks for the offer, but I live a few miles from NIC and prefer to buy as I need so I have a fresh batch.

Cerakote has a 1yr shelf life and needs to be refrigerated.
It should not be used with a "thinner" of any kind. Might explain your issues?


A good non-biased reviewer of firearm treatments can be found here...
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/09/09/metal-finishes-and-treatments-what-do-they-mean-and-why-are-they-important/
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/09/13/metal-finishes-and-treatments-part-2-melonite-and-spray-on-finishes/

Scorch
June 16, 2011, 02:29 AM
Cerakote has a 1yr shelf life and needs to be refrigerated.
It should not be used with a "thinner" of any kind. Might explain your issues?

I am aware of the need to refrigerate the product and the shelf life issues. The thinner is the clean-up product sold by NIC for cleaning air brush tips.