PDA

View Full Version : So I think my gunsmith is an Idot. Tell me I'm wrong.


AMT8951
June 6, 2011, 09:41 AM
I own a Kahr E9 that I want to put night sights on. I took the gun to my local gunsmith, and told him what I needed done. He told me that it couldn't be done, because the front sight needed to be staked on. He explained that the force needed to stake the sight on would probably damage the Tritium element. He suggested that I either cut a dovetail for the front sight, or send the gun back to the factory. Is he right? Before you ask: Yes my Kahr actually has a staked on front sight.

HiBC
June 6, 2011, 10:33 AM
He is not an idot.I think if you study Trijicon's info,you will find out what Trijicon says about installing the sights.I think if you go to Brownell's site,you will find the cost of Trijicon's recommended staking tool is about $300.
It is reasonable for the gunsmith to say"I am properly tooled to cut dovetails.I am not properly tooled to stake per Trijicon." Your smith gets to decide the number of sight staking jobs it will take to pay for the tool.If you buy the tool,you could probably stake the sight.The vials are easy to break.If he tries a make do method,and the vial breaks,are you going to expect him to buy a new sight?
Now,you take your handgun to a gentleman who has skills and experience,you ask him to do some work,he gives you honest information,and you insult him,whether here or to his face.
And people wonder why gunsmiths are crotchety.

Old Grump
June 6, 2011, 10:59 AM
Buy your gunsmith flowers, he done you good. Better to be told no then to do it and screw it up, then you would be really mad.

Hawg Haggen
June 6, 2011, 11:11 AM
So I think my gunsmith is an Idot. Tell me I'm wrong.

IMHO you're wrong.

AMT8951
June 6, 2011, 11:42 AM
So can't be done, or it can be done with a special tool? Which is it? I didn't tell the guy he needed to do it without tools. So he can't do it because he doesn't have the right tool, but some other guy who does have the tool can?

HiBC
June 6, 2011, 12:49 PM
Yes.Go to Brownell's website,look under gunsmith tools.Its about $300.Proper staking with a proper tool is a good system.Now,that tool is for a 1911 slide.I do not know if it fits a Kahr,so sending your slide to Kahr or a sight mfg may be the way to go.
Your gunsmith is not an idot.Good luck.

Wildalaska
June 6, 2011, 01:09 PM
Looks like we have the old "tell me what I want to hear, not the truth" problem here.

WildyourgunsmithmadethecorrectcallAlaska ™©2002-2011

HiBC
June 6, 2011, 01:22 PM
could not find the tool at Brownells.I did find it at Optics Planet.It is the Trijicon CA03 staking tool,for $270.

603Country
June 6, 2011, 01:25 PM
Idot? What's an Idot? Is that some new text acronym, like LOL? LOL :)

oneoldsap
June 6, 2011, 01:58 PM
Too Funny , Idot , does that speak volumes or what ?

James K
June 6, 2011, 06:37 PM
+1, WA.

There are also the folks who get their info from the gunzines and believe the hype. Those guys will praise anything they get for free; wouldn't you?

Jim

GURU1911
June 6, 2011, 07:36 PM
1. Correct spelling of the word "idot": Idiot
2. Ship the slide only to novak's in parkersburg, wva. & let them install whatever sights you may desire. They are the best at sight installations & usually do the work in 10 days or less.

Please listen to what me & the other contributors are saying. Seriously, we are trying to assist you with your question & what needs to be done to accomplish what you wish to do, regarding the sights you desire. We are also trying to keep you out of hot water with yourself & your gunsmith.

All of us who hang-out in the "smithy" section, are truly sincere & passionate about what we do to assist the membership of this forum. Peace out !!!!

Guru1911

Eagle Eye
June 6, 2011, 08:47 PM
The poster may have mistyped "idiot," and in my opinion his question is out of line when phrased as he did. But his smithy told him the job could not be done. I am not a gun smith, but from the various comments, it sounds like it can be done with the right tool. So his gun smith should have told him just that. Instead the GS lead him to believe it was impossible by anyone. Why in the world did he not just refer him to someone with the tool and explain the situation? And why do so many of you insist on insulting the poster for simple misspelled words? I see misspelled words from many of you all of the time, so nobody is perfect. Darned if I know why you could not just steer him in the right direction and leave the insults alone. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.....or something like that.

Oh, I get it. You are all kidding. Gee whiz, I need to lighten up a bit. As I recall, some of you have beat up on me for my jests. And as I told you then, you are sarcastic at times too. You can dish it but cannot take it. In this thread you are dishing it pretty well. And those to whom I refer should know who you are.

And bottom line IMHO? No, I do not think his smithy is an idiot. But he either is not willing to refer a client elsewhere or he is not aware of other resources. I would find another smithy in either case.

AMT8951
June 6, 2011, 08:49 PM
Alright then. I stand corrected. If anyone needs me i'll be out back eating crow. That being said I will probably not be posting anything on this section for a while. When I do I will double check my spelling. Thanks for the help. :)

MLeake
June 6, 2011, 10:45 PM
FWIW, if I had to choose between shelling out $270 for a tool, or paying to have a slide dovetailed, I'd go with the dovetail. It allows a much wider variety of sight options.

Eagle Eye, we all misspell stuff; sometimes our spell-checkers do it for us and we don't catch it. But you have to admit, calling somebody an idiot, and misspelling idiot, is about as ironic an error as one can make.

Especially when the "idiot" name wasn't deserved.

BrittB
June 6, 2011, 10:50 PM
I wonder how much they would charge him if he sent the slide in? Less than the cost of a tool perhaps?

HiBC
June 6, 2011, 11:46 PM
now,AMT,please understand there is no ill will.I hope you won't give up on posting.
I was not there,and I don't know what happened.I am a hobbyist who works on his own stuff,and I am getting my 1911 education by sometimes buying parts twice.I did buy Wilson's combat CD series on smithing the 1911.They show installation of the tritium sights using the tool described.Trijicon says use the tool.I don't have the staking tool.I do have access to a Bridgeport and dovetail cutters.just my preference,a good stake job is probably what I would prefer.
You might get away with a hammer driven Brownell's staking tool,but your smith cannot afford to buy new sights if the vial breaks.

I do think sending it in is a fine idea.
You know,generally,to have a Gunsmith shingle out,and pay your bills,you can't really be an idiot very often.You pretty well better take pride in your work,and folks will find any flaw you put in their gun.Many won't understand what it takes,or why it costs $75 to do what seems like a simple little job,say,fit a cool new thumb safety to a 1911 that the customer bought,and the post is out of square .There ain't no drop in 1911 parts.
So,if you are in the man's shop with the idea he is an idiot,you are probably putting out disrespect vibes.
I hope you have thick enough skin and enough sense of humor to laugh at yourself.I do,often.Sometimes I call myself an idiot before I order another part.I also make typos,and sometimes I don't even care if I mis spell a word.
There is just some perfect irony there.

mavracer
June 7, 2011, 06:51 AM
Even with the staking tool I've seen night sights damaged. Your gunsmith did you a favor.

mapsjanhere
June 7, 2011, 07:39 AM
The gunsmith might have been a bit loose on the "can't be done" part vs. I can't do it since you need an overpriced tool and the risk isn't worth what you'll pay for it", but he also might either known the local gunsmiths well enough to know no one has the tool, or worse, known one who has it and does crap jobs with it. Because if someone he mentions screws up the job on you you'll remember him forever as the guy who "recommended" the bad guy, and he didn't even do the job.

Sarge
June 7, 2011, 08:01 AM
AMT- just in case you check back in here...

Your gunsmith simply doesn't want to mess with the job, which you can easily do yourself anyhow. See here (http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=5&f=35&t=106504) for further. I think the front sights on the E are the same as the CW's, but you may want to call Kahr and confirm that. There are also at least a couple of slide types so make sure you sort all that out before you order.

Of course I could have posted some snarky comment about a simple typo, replied to other snarky comments, etc. But in 1/3 the time it would have taken to do that, I found a likely solution to your problem.

Geez, people. Help a guy out once in awhile.

johnbt
June 7, 2011, 08:12 AM
"Now,that tool is for a 1911 slide.I do not know if it fits a Kahr"

I doubt it.

"Fits all 1911 Autos except Officers ACP." - Trijicon

Does anybody really think the Trijicon CA03 staking tool is going to fit a Kahr E9? The mandrel has to fit snugly in the barrel channel so you can hammer on the wedge to stake it. It also has to be snug in the slide so it can hold the sight in place while you hammer away.

Jim Watson
June 7, 2011, 08:13 AM
Pay attention to Sarge's link.
The front sight on an E9 is plastic, ultrasonically staked into two holes. Mine kicked off early on and they replaced it with adhesive as well as staking.

You would not likely be able to stake down a front sight with 1911 parts and tools. The gunsmith was wise to decline the job if he was not familiar with the requirements.

If I took it to my FLG, he would chop a dovetail right across the mounting holes and use a K9 or generic dovetail sight.

AMT8951
June 7, 2011, 08:45 AM
Ok, so I spelled IDIOT wrong. That is pretty funny. I actually got a little laugh out of that when I realized it. Of course I would have laughed a lot harder if someone else had done it. Also, I probably shouldn't have titled the post like I did. I just thought that It would be humorous, and more likely to get some response. However, I don't feel that I have disrespected anyone. Frankly I don't even know the guys name, and I don't think any of you guys do either. I probably should have said something like "Is my GS being honest with me" or something like that . My bad.
Despite what some have inferred I didn't go into the shop with an disrespectful attitude or a "tell me what I want to hear" attitude. I went in with an open mind, spoke to the guy face to face and told him what I wanted done. I expected an honest answer from him, and I'm not sure I got it. Is not telling me the whole truth lying? I thought he might have been mistaken when I realized that I own a RIA .45 with staked on Trijicons. I can understand if he doesn't want to, or can't, do the job. But at least give me the information to make my own decision.
At this point I think all the fun has been sucked out of this particular project. I’ll probably put the Kahr back into the safe and worry about it later. So for those of you who gave me good, constructive, advice, Thank you. Those of didn't, well you are who you are. I don't know any of you guys, and you don't know me. So I guess it's all good.

Clark
June 7, 2011, 09:10 AM
When ever I damage the "Tritium element", I feel like an idiot.

I have spray painted over it.
I have put the guns in with a bunch of other guns, rattled them around and voilà, broken Tritium element.

triggerman770
June 7, 2011, 09:45 PM
it seems that Kahr is not among those enumerated by Trijicon to have their sights.
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=BNTNS

603Country
June 7, 2011, 09:59 PM
AMT, I apologize for poking fun at the "Idot" spelling. I have made a couple of goofy spellings and posts in the past and nobody took potshots at me - which I appreciate - so I shouldn't take potshots at you.

johnbt
June 8, 2011, 12:47 PM
iDot, it's the new Apple electronic sighting system. No, I'm still working on it. There's a joke there somewhere.

oneoldsap
June 8, 2011, 02:38 PM
You have to appriciate the Irony of calling someone else an Idiot and spelling it wrong !

603Country
June 8, 2011, 03:54 PM
I know, oneoldsap, that's what got me going in the first place. But...truth is that I wasn't contributing anything. Too many people just step into a forum conversation with absolutely nothing worthwhile to add, and then I catch myself doing exactly the same thing.

oneoldsap
June 8, 2011, 06:30 PM
Yes I suppose so , but lets not take ourselves too seriously . After all guns are just toys to most of us , a dangerous toy for sure but a toy none the less !

GURU1911
June 8, 2011, 07:42 PM
As the former president of a 400 + members 100% nra shooting club in sw louisiana, i did my share of blunders, faux pax, & assorted other funny stuff at meetings, gun shows, & at the clubs 17 acre shooting facility.

Shooters generally have a great sense of humor & like to poke non-serious fun at each other, when the occasion arises. I had to learn very quickly to laugh at my "doo-fus" behavior & my corny jokes, but i ran unopposed for 5 years as president---the guys loved me for who i was and my commitment to the club, the nra, & to the us constitution.

Laugh hard & often, but keep them in the 10-ring !!!!!!

Guru1911

603Country
June 8, 2011, 09:22 PM
I'll blame my frisky smart alec action of the other day on the intoxicating glow I had from just having shot my 220 Swift on my 100 yard range, with great results. The gun shot great already, but I just got around to turning the necks a trifle and loading up a fresh batch. Man, it shot even better with the turned necks. I took 4 rounds with me from the shop to the bench and they all went in 1 ragged hole. I was floating on air....which gets me into the smart alec phase. I wasn't my normal self....

GURU1911
June 9, 2011, 09:46 AM
WE CAN ALL UNDERSTAND THAT "BUZZ" YOU WERE EXPERIENCING FROM SHOOTING THAT ONE-HOLER @ 100 YARDS. MANY YEARS AGO, I "HOT-RODDED" A REM 700 .270 WINCHESTER FOR A FELLOW IN LAKE CHARLES. DID EVERYTHING I COULD TO ACCURIZE THE RIFLE EXCEPT TO REPLACE THE FACTORY BARREL.

SET HIM UP ON A CONCRETE BENCH & MOUNTED THE RIFLE IN MY STEEL FRAME SHOOTING JIG. HE CALMLY PROCEEDED TO FIRE A 3-SHOT GROUP WITH SOME WINCHESTER WHITE BOX AMMO HE BOUGHT ON SALE AT MART-MART. AFTER MEASURING THE GROUP & SUBTRACTING THE BULLET DIAMETER, THE FINAL MEASUREMENT WAS .092" CTC---WE BOTH NEARLY FAINTED !!!!!! HE GAVE ME A BIG HUG & A $50 TIP. TWELVE PEOPLE IN HIS FAMILY HARVESTED 18 DEER THAT SEASON WITH ONE SHOT EACH----WOW !!!!!!

SO I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE BUZZ FACTOR AS YOU DESCRIBE. BY THE CONFESSION OF YOUR MOUTH, YOUR SHOOTING SINS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN BY THE READERS OF THIS FORUM. CONTINUE TO SHOOT, BUT SIN NO MORE. (ha-ha-lol-giggle-giggle)

GURU1911

PetahW
June 9, 2011, 02:33 PM
[I wonder how much they would charge him if he sent the slide in? Less than the cost of a tool perhaps?]

Depends.

Consider:

$300 (+/-) special tool needed.

"X" number of expected jobs requiring above tool, which will help defray the tool cost (amortization)

Do the math as if it was YOUR only bread & butter - Would YOU accept ONE job requiring a $300 tool you don't have (and most like can't get), and do it for peanuts ?

.