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jtyson
June 4, 2011, 06:09 PM
First of all, hello everyone. This is my first post here. I have been lurking for a while mostly reading about handguns. However, it is time for me to pick up a hunting rifle. Haven't been since I was a kid and want to get back into it.

I have a shot at a Remington 700 BDL in .270 for $400. HOWEVER, the gun is not pristine. The original owner for some reason felt the need to etch his name and social security number into the barrel. Also, the stock is a little dinged up. Not terrible, but enough to where I won't worry about dragging it through the woods. The gun will also come with an old redfield 2x7 scope that will be getting replaced in the near future if I pick it up.

A few questions... Is the price worth it? I am just looking for a good hunting rifle. I have actually been looking for and prefer a .308, but with the similarity of the calibers I don't want to pass up a good deal. Also, I don't re load now. I might like to in the future, but don't know if the .270 is any better or worse of an option for reloading. I have been told that there is more available for the .308

My intended game will be mostly mule and white tail deer, elk and maybe some sheep. Pretty much everything available in NM. Eventually I would like to hunt the larger game moose, brown bear, caribou, etc... but don't think that will be in my budget in the next few years so I will get a gun fit for that when I come to it. I know .270 is a sufficient load assuming I do my part. I just want to know if the .308 has enough advantages for me to pass up the .270.

I appreciate you all dealing with my newbie questions that have probably been beaten to death. I have searched and read so many conflicting opinions I don't know what to think or who to believe. But if $400 is a deal I shouldn't pass up, then I will buy the gun and deal with the rest later. If its not that great, then I will keep shopping. Thanks again!

Jeremiah

rigby06
June 4, 2011, 06:41 PM
I can speak to the price, but I have both a .270 rifle, and a rifle in the .308; the 270 is more of a hunting round and as such I have only found premium ammo for it. Whereas the .308 can be more of a military round, so there are reloads, and lots of full metal jacket rounds out there for range practice, if that makes any difference to you.

JC5503
June 4, 2011, 06:49 PM
I dont know about there but around here there are enough decent Rem 700's for sale in different calibers that I would probably pass on that one and save my money for one that was nicer.... but thats just me, I also have more preference to the 308 than the 270 and again no real rhyme or reason just my thing.

jtyson
June 4, 2011, 06:59 PM
I too prefer the .308 simply for the fact that its a heavier bullet.

Remington 700s are really hard to come across here. Really, all hunting rifles are hard to find used at good prices. I have come across 3 in the past 3 months checking all the local classified sites. 2 in .270. this one for $400 the other in really good condition for $650. One in .308 for $750. Also found a bare bones Winchester 70 in .308 for $650..

oldandslow
June 4, 2011, 07:28 PM
jt, 6/4/11

I have a similar Rem. 700 in .270 Winchester but the ADL model. Mine is 43 years old and still shoots 1 and 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards with handloads. Mine has about 740 rounds through it so far. It's a great rifle and does what it is supposed to. The one your looking at sounds like a reasonable deal. If it has a little wear on it the big question is "how does it shoot?" If the owner will show you that it still shoots well then it is worth getting. Overall it's a great rifle in a great caliber for a fair price. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

jtyson
June 4, 2011, 07:51 PM
oldandslow

Thanks for the input. The tried and true performance over time is why I lean towards a Remington 700. Have thought about the Savage guns as well, but not sure I trust them. I don't re load right now, but may in the future. Do you have much experience with ammo off the shelf and accuracy? Honestly I am sure no matter what I shoot the gun will be more accurate than me, but how bad are loads off the shelf?

PawPaw
June 4, 2011, 08:10 PM
Thanks for the input. The tried and true performance over time is why I lean towards a Remington 700. Have thought about the Savage guns as well, but not sure I trust them. I don't re load right now, but may in the future. Do you have much experience with ammo off the shelf and accuracy? Honestly I am sure no matter what I shoot the gun will be more accurate than me, but how bad are loads off the shelf?

First of all, welcome to the forum.

The Remington 700 is an iconic rifle, and Remington has made and sold quite a few of them. There is lots of aftermarket support for the rifle and lots of shooters like them. I own one, a .308 hunting rifle and I'm pleased with it.

I also like Savage rifles, and I don't know why you don't trust them. Savage rifles have made a name for themselves as accurate, durable rifles at a popular price point. I own four of them and I'm pleased with each of them. Very accurate, very durable rifles.

but how bad are loads off the shelf? For the most part, not that bad, actually. I've heard good things about Federal Fusion ammo and most of the ammunition from the major manufacturers is good stuff. However, handloading lets us tailor loads to our individual rifles and tweak our ammo for the best performance.

Again, welcome to the forum.

38superhero
June 4, 2011, 08:15 PM
welcome, buy a new Savage Axis [previously Edge ]in 30-06 and never look back....

Picher
June 4, 2011, 09:07 PM
Hard to beat a Rem 700 bdl in .270 Win in decent shape for $400. The .270 is a fabulous hunting round, especially for shots beyond 200 yards. The .308 may be a good range round, but the .270 is better for hunting Western game IMHO. Trajectory is flatter than the .308, creating a longer point blank range when using the right ammo.

The 130 grain bullet is king in the .270.

JP

warbirdlover
June 4, 2011, 09:10 PM
I bought a new Rem 700 SPS Buckmasters .270 this year. Shoots like a dream and new it cost $599 and had a $40 Remington rebate so total cost was $549. That's a brand new rifle (no scope of course) for only $150 more then the used one you described.

I use factory loads and factory Hornady Custom 130 gr. ammo groups under an inch (almost a 1/2 inch) at 100 yards.

jtyson
June 4, 2011, 09:11 PM
My issues with the Savage has no real personal experience just hear say about issues from friends. I have not shot them, but have read a lot about them really improving lately.

What is the aftermarket like on the savage vs the Remington? I know the Remington has plenty available but don't know about the other. I won't be spending massive money right away, but wouldn't mind having something I could customize down the road.

Bones
June 4, 2011, 09:29 PM
Only one thing wrong, with this Rem 700 in 270 Win.:confused: You say the original owned has etched his name and his SS number on the barrel! :eek: :eek: :eek: OMG!!! What did he use, a"cold chisel", or a big rock?

homesick
June 4, 2011, 09:53 PM
Jeremiah welcome if this is your 1st high power rifle think about looking at someone elses name on your rifle, I had a pre 64 M70 /270 once that had that very same thing I liked the rifle, but with the name on it it had to go.

Both calibers you are looking at will do and have done a very respectable job on game for years.

A couple things to consider long action vs medium action. The cost of ammo is somthing to consider, if you don't reload,. There is a lot of 308 ammo on the market at a good price, where as the 270 will probably be more expensive. I would guess that if it's your 1st high power rifle your gona want to shot it as much and as often as you can so ammo price is a factor.

I am sure no matter what you decide to do will be the best for you. All of us who responed to your tread all wish you the best and welcome to the brotherhood of shooting and hunting:)

monstercat
June 4, 2011, 10:09 PM
Im looking to get one in 308. just havnt pull the trigger yet.

jtyson
June 4, 2011, 10:52 PM
@Bones looks like he used one of those little cheap vibrating engravers. But that was done by the original owner about 30 years ago so I don't know if they even had those then.

@homesick This will actually be my second high power rifle. First was a 30-06 (some chinese brand I can't remember) when I was a kid. I don't like the fact that the name is on the barrel, but it isn't a deal killer for me. If the price is right, I don't care. I can always replace a barrel later on if I want. As for ammo, that is a concern because I don't reload. I am not opposed to learning how I just don't know how time consuming it is. I work for myself and don't have much free time as it is.

I want to say thanks for the warm welcome and helping another newbie out with the same old questions! I appreciate all the knowledge from those who are more experienced than I am.

jtyson
June 4, 2011, 11:29 PM
Where do you suggest going for ammo? Either .270 or .308 just for target/practice. Obviously I will spend for the better ammo when hunting. So far from what I can find though, the .308 is so much cheaper that will be enough to outweigh the benefit of a slightly cheaper rifle in .270. Or at least I think it will... I have a really hard time passing up any good deal on a gun. Someone tell me, with the barrel being engraved, does that kill the value enough to warrant me passing this one up?

WildBill45
June 5, 2011, 12:08 AM
The .270 is a sweet rifle. The last one I owned was a Steyr Mannlicher Pro, and I took plenty of game with it. Remingtons usually have good triggers.

I have never owned a Savage, but have read stories of them rusting badly in Alaska, even the so called stainless versions...

jtyson
June 5, 2011, 12:14 AM
@WildBill45 I have heard otherwise about the Remington triggers. I have heard they are way too heavy and the weak point in accurate shooting. I can't say first hand if thats true though.

I have heard both good and bad about the Savage. But I can't find anyone saying much bad about the Remington 700 line

Fusion
June 5, 2011, 12:49 AM
For that price I'd look for a nicer one myself. Walmart sells Remington 700 ADL's with synthetic stocks and a basic package deal scope for $400, or even better yet a Savage Model 10 or 110 depending on the caliber, also with a scope and this one has the accu trigger also. While these wouldn't have nice wood stocks, this would be a lot better option imo. I'd go for something like this new before a used and abused rifle for the same price. That being said, I think the Savages are much better rifles than the newer Remingtons. So If I had to have a Remington, it'd not be a new one.

jtyson
June 5, 2011, 02:32 AM
I have also heard that about the newer Remingtons. However this gun is at least 35 years old. But after debating, unless the guy comes down on price, this gun just isn't worth it.

I might go take a look at the savage. Are there any particular models to look at? Any I should avoid? I think I am going to stick with the .308 for ammo purposes now and reloading options down the road.

sailskidrive
June 5, 2011, 05:30 AM
I have a Rem 700 PPS in 308, it is ridiculously accruate. For hunting though I prefer a Win Mod 70 in 270.

I am surprised that no one has brought up the "safety issue" with the 700.

overland
June 5, 2011, 05:34 AM
A new one goes for around $900 or more plus tax and/or FFL transfer fees. Consider a new Weatherby Vanguard as they are good deals and very accurate. Not quite as nice looking, but a good rifle.

hooligan1
June 5, 2011, 06:41 AM
I second Fusion's advice here J,Go to the wallyworld and check out a NEW rifle, that you can make your own!!;)

natman
June 5, 2011, 01:39 PM
Please do me a favor. Tell the guy that you would have been willing to pay $400 for it, but because of the "engraving" he added you're only willing to pay $200.

Idiots need to learn a lesson. :rolleyes:

jtyson
June 5, 2011, 02:41 PM
@sailskidrive Why do you prefer the .270 over the .308 for hunting?

@natman I agree if it weren't for the condition I would be comfortable paying $400. The guy who owns it now is the second owner though, not the one who etched his name on the barrel. It was his brother's friend who did it about 30 years ago, so a lesson at this point isn't very likely to be learned.

As for Wally World rifles, I will check them out, but have a hard time believing anything quality comes from that company. Can you really buy good rifles from WalMart? Or would I be better off looking at Sportsmans?

pabuckslayer08
June 5, 2011, 03:50 PM
Not a chance man, not worth it. A new one is only 600 bucks and if its dinged up no way. For 400 bucks do yourself a favor and get a T/C Venture

warbirdlover
June 5, 2011, 08:37 PM
The .270 is the best hunting round ever created. Much more effective then the .308. I've had both. And the .270 ammo is just as cheap as the .308. $17 a box for Remington or Winchester.

I've killed deer with 150 gr. 308 Remington core loks and with 130 gr. 270 core loks. The deer were shot at around 75-100 yards broadside behind the shoulder in the lung cavity. The deer shot with the 270 all dropped on the spot. The deer shot with the .308 all ran some.

Cowboy_mo
June 5, 2011, 08:52 PM
quote: "For 400 bucks do yourself a favor and get a T/C Venture". I agree!!! I love my T/C venture.......

quote: ".270 ammo and .308 $17 a box" I also agree......

Concerning Walmart -- They don't make the guns, they only sell them just like any other retail store. A new Remington from Walmart comes from the same factory as a new Remington (of the same model) you buy from any other gun retailer. That also goes for the ammunition Walmart sells, only it is typically cheaper........

warbirdlover
June 5, 2011, 11:02 PM
Good advice if you are only going to spend $400. T/C Venture is a super value and excellent rifle.

jtyson
June 6, 2011, 01:20 AM
I'm not looking to only spend $400. I am just pretty tight with my money. If I can save it somehow by taking advantage of good deals, I will. But if I have to wait another few months to get a better deal, thats fine too. I didn't draw any tags this year. Hoping to be able to buy something off someone, but who knows. If I don't have a good gun ready to go by then, well then that gives me another year to find what I want.

I know I am opening a can of worms here, but how is it that a .270 can be a better hunting load than a .308? I know the .270 is a bit flatter shooting, but still its a lighter and smaller bullet. Maybe I am simplifying it too much, but wouldn't a bigger bullet hit harder? I know the difference between the two is minimal, but I am curious why so many seem to prefer the .270.

MOshooter65202
June 6, 2011, 01:38 AM
New Remington 499.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=234155351

hooligan1
June 6, 2011, 04:01 AM
Hey dude, I picked up a Weatherby Vanguard, 7mm rem mag, from wallyworld for $350.00. So yesy you can get qualitly firearms from there, depending on your store. (some stores do not handle firearms). Its been a beauty so far!!!;)

bailey bud
June 6, 2011, 09:24 AM
My Win Mod 70 has the previous owner's ID info engraved in the lower side of the bolt (can't really see it until you remove the bolt).

I think I'd drop the value measurably if I could spot the engraving.

Bud's Gun shop has a NIB 700BDL for $725.

Given this, I'd say the gun you're describing is worth $350-$400.
(doesn't sound like there's any functional problems - just cosmetics)

Good news is - you can go to a gun parts supply shop and build your own - most likely down-the-road.

ripnbst
June 6, 2011, 12:00 PM
Being that its a rem 700 I wouldn't be too worried about the engraving. I say this because no other bolt action rifle in the world has more aftermarket support. Just because the guy is asking 400, doesn't mean that's what you have to pay. If its used, its definitely negotiable. Tell him you like it but the engraving of someone else's name and SS# no less is a real killer and because of it you've talked to several people and the most you can comfortably offer is $350, if he tells you to take a hike, sweet. If he accepts, sweet.

Over the years you could slowly upgrade the rifle and in a few years have a super slick Remmy 700. I regret not buying one as my first rifle as I am a tinkerer and the gun I have now has no aftermarket support.

WildBill45
June 6, 2011, 09:48 PM
@WildBill45 I have heard otherwise about the Remington triggers. I have heard they are way too heavy and the weak point in accurate shooting. I can't say first hand if thats true though.

I have been thinking about what you said. I may be spoiled as I have never owned a stock, out of the Box Remington rifle. My first one was a model 10-X target rifle in .220 Swift to sort out the Prairie Dog towns in Colorado near my home. It was super accurate at very long ranges ... trust me! My other rifle is my Custom Remington KS, in .350 Remington. Both were Remington custom shop rifles with great triggers! I don't always get custom rifles, that is the exception, but both of such were Remingtons! I also did own a stock, Remington XP-100, bolt action Pistol (short rifle pistol) in .221 fireball! If I recall it also had a nice trigger!

Most of my other rifles were Control Round Feed, mauser style rifles, which would exclude Remington, save my Steyr Mannlicher Pro, and a Winchester 7mm STW! Who is counting?

warbirdlover
June 6, 2011, 10:19 PM
The new x-Mark Pro trigger on my SPS Buckmasters is very nice. Crisp, breaks like glass and no creep. As nice as the Timneys I've put on a couple of my rifles years ago. Adjustable down to 3-1/2 lbs. which is as light as anyone should go on a hunting rifle IMHO.

jtyson
June 7, 2011, 12:40 AM
@WildBill45 Since you happened to mention Steyr, that is another rifle I have been looking at. But have heard varying opinions on them. I have ZERO first hand experience with them. Here are the details from the listing

*This is a Steyr Mauser 98 action .308 scout rifle, 20" barrel, 3-9 X 50 scope, new barrel, new Knoxx recoil reducing stock, all matching #s, receiver made in Austria, great all around and hunting rifle, $650 OBO*

I have seen the regular old military surplus rifles going for $100-300 that I guess people like to build on. But I don't know what the value is on one that already has some work done to it. While I am still considering a Wally World gun that I can play with down the road and use as is now, if this is a better gun for not much more $, I may pick it up.

@warbirdlover I do agree on a hunting rifle I wouldn't want the trigger much lighter than that. But I have heard that the older Remington 700 trigger is around 7lbs and far from smooth. Do you know if thats true? And if so, when did they make the triggers better? Since I am still shopping and may grab a used rifle, I would like to know what to look for and what not to.

WildBill45
June 7, 2011, 02:26 AM
I had the Pro model, which was straight from the factory 20 years ago or so. The stock was synthetic, and the action Steyr, not a mauser type action. It had the butterfly bolt handle. It was a sweet shooter in .270 Win. with a double set trigger! I also had a Harris Bipod up front!

Here is a photo of it, with me and my Wyoming antelope shot at 300 yards. It is always windy in Wyoming ... you can count on it! I also added a photo of #1 son, with a Colorado antelope and the Steyr!

Hook686
June 7, 2011, 02:44 AM
I see Remington 700 .270 caliber on gunbroker.com NIB at $429 and $579. It does not sound to me as the rifle your mention is what you really want.

jtyson
June 7, 2011, 02:52 AM
@WildBill45 Here in NM we deal with the wind too, so an accurate rifle is definitely what I need. After doing some research tonight I am finding that the Mauser 98 action leaves some to be desired. I don't plan to be taking too many long shots, but I want to know that I am the variable in the equation, not the rifle. So my search continues!

@Hook686 Yeah after looking around more, I have found many that don't have the cosmetic issues that this one does going for the same amount. .308 is a better option for me to be able to practice due to ammunition costs. If the price were really ridiculously low on the .270 I would pick it up, but its not so I am passing it up.

warbirdlover
June 7, 2011, 07:31 AM
jtyson,

Not familiar with the older 700 triggers although many in here have said they were great. This new trigger came out a couple years ago after the lawsuit thing on tv that said the triggers were unsafe.

MOshooter65202
June 7, 2011, 08:18 AM
All of my Rem 700's are older and very accurate with excellent triggers.

Eagle0711
June 7, 2011, 01:25 PM
Well... here in southern Or it's common for used Rem 700 BDLs go for $500-700
Sounds like you might get some knocked off that $400.

The Rem 700 is tops. I'd take a 270 Win over a 308 anytime. It shoots flatter, more MV, and has enough energy to take an elk at 300 yds. Jack O'Conner has shot elk at 600 yards. This JMHO.

WildBill45
June 7, 2011, 01:45 PM
Jack O'Conner has shot elk at 600 yards.

I have shot Elk that far or more, but with a Weatherby .300! Elk at 600 yards is beyond the effective range of a .270 for large game like Elk. They are tough, and ELK run far when wounded! Jack may have hit one at that range, but the energy levels are fringe at best, probably around 950 foot pounds at best ... he may be still looking for it!;)

I love the .270! I write a lot about my Steyr Pro in that caliber, and have taken many bears with it in Canada, and antelope and deer here in the good ole' USA. But every caliber has its effective range, with the most limiting factor being the shooter. Everyone can't shoot far, because they can't shoot well enough up close. Shooting deer at 500 yards is like shooting dimes at 50 yards ... off hand, breathing hard, and in the wind, just like it is when hunting! You throw in the other dynamics like wind, and drop, and it raises the skill-set bar even higher!

The Winchester .270, one of my favorite cartridges, but, and there always is a but in life, I think 600 for Elk is a stunt and not smart in my opinion.

Doodlebugger45
June 7, 2011, 02:51 PM
I would pass on that particular rifle.

Nothing wrong with Remingtons. When I bought my first bolt action rifle 37 years ago, Remington 700 was an obvious choice for decent accuracy and good looks. Winchester model 70 cost a little bit more but was still affordable to an average guy. Savages shot well but were butt-ugly. Weatherby, Browning, etc were just way too expensive for most of us.

But back then, it was extremely rare for a normal Remington or Winchester to be able to shoot under 1" at 100 yds. 2" at 100 yds was more typical.

Things have changed a lot since then. Now, Savages are king of the hill when it comes to accuracy. Marlin X7, Weatherby Vanguard, Tikka T3 all make nice rifles that routinely shoot less than 1" and they all cost less than new Remingtons or Winchesters.

I still have 3 Model 70s and a couple Brownings and still cherish them, but they can't compete with my Savage for accuracy.

But when it comes to hunting, just how much accuracy do you really need? Yeah, I get a lot of satisfaction when I put 5 shots into 0.6" at the bench. But that is with no wind, using a sandbag, and taking a minute or longer in between shots. That's a whole lot different than huffing and puffing after a long hard climb up a ridge, having a 20 mph crosswind, and seeing a big bull elk about 200 yards away, ambling towards the dark timber, knowing you have about 5 seconds to take the shot. Sure, it''s important to have an accurate rifle, but under real life conditions, it's probably not going to matter whether your rifle shot a 0.5" group or a 2" group the week before.

Same thing with the debate about various calibers. Yep, a 270 or a 30-06 would be hard to beat for versatility and fairly cheap ammo. There's a reason why they are the most popular cartridges around here. But at 200 yards, the 308 will kill them just as dead and the trajectory isn't important at all under 250 yards.

Go to a gun store that allows you to hold and handle all the rifles. One or two of them will just feel "right" to you. Get that one and shoot the heck out of it so that it feels like second nature to you. That way when you do stumble across that big trophy bull, you won't even be thinking about if you can make the shot. You just will.

WildBill45
June 7, 2011, 10:10 PM
Get that one and shoot the heck out of it so that it feels like second nature to you. That way when you do stumble across that big trophy bull, you won't even be thinking about if you can make the shot. You just will.

GREAT ADVICE!

If I may add a word or two:

With Elk rifles in particular, find one bullet weight, and stick with it! Shoot it at 10 yards at cans, and at 300 Yards across an open park. Learn that rifle and load until it is second nature, as big Bulls do not give you that store-bought-paper-target broadside, standing shot, waiting 10 minutes for you to shoot!@
No Sir, they give you glimmers, and moments at best, and you better be ready to shoot without your calculator, and high-tech gizmos, just shoot as my friend noted!

jtyson
July 24, 2011, 10:53 PM
Well patience paid off for me. I ended up picking up that Remington 700 in .270. The guy had the barrel fixed up so no more etched name and social. and I got it for $375. I am looking forward to shooting it and hopefully taking it out this season. I may not have got it for a steal, but it was right in my budget and after doing more research on cartridges and ballistics, I am happy.

All in all, its in pretty good condition. Now that the barrel is fixed, there are only two flaws which don't bother me much at all. Here are a couple pics!

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac334/jeremiahtyson/guns/photobucket-32645-1311563353346.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac334/jeremiahtyson/guns/photobucket-37800-1311563324679.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac334/jeremiahtyson/guns/photobucket-16617-1311563296091.jpg