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View Full Version : My first large caliber rifle. Mosin Nagant! :D


capflyboy05
May 25, 2011, 08:09 PM
I know some of you are thinking this is too much of a step.
I've shot many rifles, and have always wanted a Mosin Nagant.
I do realise that it packs quite a punch.
But I dont flinch for any caliber of rifle. (That I've shot.... up to 300 Win Mag)

Anywho, I got her for $100 ($105 with tax.)
She came with a bayonet, two ammo pouches, a sling, and some other pouch.
Oh, and some metal thingy. I think it was an oil flask.
She was made in 1943 in Russia.
I cant wait to take her to the range!! :D :D :D
I'll post some pics soon!!!
I'm crazy excited about this new gun.

The Book
May 25, 2011, 08:18 PM
Think that is the model that was used for the movie Enemy at The Gate. They claim they are and excellent sniper rifle. Congrats on the new toy and fire away:)

the rifleer
May 25, 2011, 08:25 PM
I went from a .22 to a M44 mosin nagant when I was 14 years old. I wanted a high powered rifle and I had to pay for it and thats the only thing that was in my price range. I paid $75 and I love it.

capflyboy05
May 25, 2011, 08:38 PM
I'm 18, and did the same thing.
I mean, as I said, I shot other rifles, but only own a .22 and the Mosin.
How can I identify what variant I have?


Heres some pics. :)

Silent Titan
May 25, 2011, 08:53 PM
great rifles, i have two of them. as to figuring out what type you have, when and where it was made involves looking at the features of the gun and the manufacturer marks on the gun to get a time frame for when/who built the rifle. my guess is its a m91/30. this site is an ok place to start looking: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM.htm

the rifleer
May 25, 2011, 08:58 PM
Yep, thats a M91/30.

rifleman8
May 25, 2011, 09:41 PM
Idk if you already know this, but in your pics the bayonet isn't on all the way; push it past the front sight post and twist. Congrats on the purchase! I'm a year older than you, and like you, my mosin was the first large caliber rifle I bought. They are awesome weapons with a ton of history behind them.

capflyboy05
May 25, 2011, 09:43 PM
I do realise that. Thanks man.
It's hell to get that thing on and off. lol.
I figured for the pic I'd just let it rest on there.

capflyboy05
May 25, 2011, 10:21 PM
For those of you who own one, whats the furthest shot you've made with your Mosin Nagant? I know they shoot about 3 in, groupings at 100 yds....
Anybody made a 650 yd shot? I've read thats their max. effective range.
But the total maximum range is 2200 yards.
I feel like this could shoot out to 1200 yds, no problems....

Eghad
May 25, 2011, 10:30 PM
Got mine for a whole $69.95 good rifle. Got a M44 for a whole $59.95. Great rifles if you don't have a lot of cash and need a place to start.

Ideal Tool
May 25, 2011, 10:47 PM
Hello, about that bayonet being hard to get on and off...The Russian regulations were to have them mounted on rifle at all times..There were no scabards issued..That must have been ticklish when you and your komrads were crammed into a boxcar! My dad bought a M91/30 at a garage sale in the late 60's for $17.00! Using a 1/2" thick steel plate, I drilled and reamed as many 5/16" holes as I could. Poured melted wax into holes & scraped flush with paint scraper...used these primer powered "bullets" in basement for winter fun..quite accurate across room. That summer, we had pigeons up in barn, I wanted to use pellet gun on them..dad said not to..didn't want any holes thru roof..What to do? Got the o'l Mosin out & WAXED em'!

bailey bud
May 25, 2011, 11:13 PM
congratulations.

Maybe see you at the firing line!

9-ball
May 26, 2011, 04:37 AM
capflyboy05,

I know the sights are marked till 2000 meters, but on that range, the bullet won't be of much use. In fact, you have to take in account that these rifles were first made for WWI era trenched warfare engagements, they seldom were shot further then 300 meters.

In WWII however, battles (especially on the eastern front) were more urban, so bolt action rifles were not of much use, except to snipers, which Soviets used to great extent. The mosin-nagants were test-shot at the factories, and the best got selected for snipers. After selection the rifles received some polishing (especially on the trigger) and were sent to sniper units.

Now you have to bear in mind that sniping in WWII was mostly taking out people between 200 to 400 meters maximum. So don't expect 1200 yard accuracy from it, especially not from a standard model.

With 3 MOA groups at 100 yards, I expect it to be able to hit center mass up to 400 meters.

Maxem0815
May 26, 2011, 06:06 AM
Nice gun it falls into the category of 8x57 or 303 British in energy. The sniper version of the rifle is different from 91/31 with a faster lock time lighter trigger bent bolt and detachable scope mount. For interest the Germans preferred the Russian sniper rifle over the 98K for the reasons of reliability in the wonderfull warm weather in Russia.

Coyote WT
May 26, 2011, 07:31 AM
Aleksandra, my Mosin Nagant, was the first firearm I ever bought and that was after nearly three decades away from any kind of gun. I love it. I've been shooting it once a week (about 60 rounds per session) for about three months now and I'm really happy with our performance.

If no one has mentioned it make sure you're washing the barrel with water after each shooting if you're using corrosive (most military surplus) ammo.

kraigwy
May 26, 2011, 07:53 AM
Don't sell the Mosin short. They (if you have a decent barrel) are quite accurate. 3-3.5 MOA isn't as bad as most seem to think.

Think about this, the X-10-9 ring on the NRA 600 yard target is about 18 inches across. A 3 MOA Mosin is capable of keeping all the shots inside the 9 ring, the law of averages means that about 2/3s of those shots should be in the X-10 rings. Meaning, the gun is capable of 195+ out of 200 possible.

The 200 yard NRA target used in CMP Games has a 3.5 MOA X-10 ring, you should be able to clean the target with just about any Mosin.

The shooter is the weak link.

You see a lot of sub min rifles and groups talked about on the internet but you see very few cleaned 600 yard targets on the firing line.

You take the time to learn to shoot the Mosin, you'll be supprised.

I would highly recommend anyone who wants to learn to shoot the Mosin take a CMP GSM Clinic. Then practice. Dry firing the Mosin goes a long way in learning to make it shoot, Make some dummy rounds and practice loading with stripper clips. Dry fire "rappid fire" working the bolt.

I put on a CMP GSM Clinic & Match last weekend. Out of the Vintage Rifles, the two highest scores were Mosins. (There were Garands, Carbines and 1917s on the line). Not saying the Mosin will out shoot a Garand, but the Mosin shooter outshot the Garand shooter.

Chances are your Mosin is going to shoot high. Most do, but that's a easy fix without replacing the sights, and keeping it "as issue". Do a search as I've covered it a few times or PM me and I'll give you the simple details.

To add: What I like best about the Mosin rifle is it allows everyone to get into competitive rifle shooting, keeping shooting sports from being a rich man's support. To be competitive in High Power Rifle shooting, the rifle is going to cost about a grand, (three times that if you go to a M1A) plus the expensive ammo, heavy coats, etc etc. With the advent of the CMP GSM Vintage Military Rifle games, just about anyone can be competitive. You can use a $100 rifle and cheap surplus ammo (that normaly cost less then reloads) and can clean the target if the shooter learns the rifle).

Enjoy your rifle, keep it "AS ISSUED" and learn to shoot it. It will last you a life time.

hornetguy
May 26, 2011, 08:05 AM
As a footnote, if you (like many) find the square-edged blocky buttstock with metal buttplate to be somewhat, um.. uncomfortable :eek: for extended shooting sessions (more than a box), you can buy an aftermarket rubber recoil pad that screws on in place of the metal buttplate. It looks like it would make it more comfortable to shoot. Do a search on Fleabay, and you can find them for around 10-15 bucks.
I've been meaning to order one for my M44, but just haven't done it yet. I love shooting mine, which is definitely better than 3moa, but it just gets painful after a box or so....sort of encourages a flinch. :(
They are also nice to reload for, and I've been working up some loads with cast boolits that are every bit the equal to a 30-30 load, and are cream-puffs to shoot. But that's another tale...

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 03:55 PM
Anybody know where I can find stripper clips at and for how much?

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 03:58 PM
@Kraigwy "Dry firing the Mosin goes a long way in learning to make it shoot, Make some dummy rounds and practice loading with stripper clips. Dry fire "rappid fire" working the bolt."

Dry firing is normally bad....
Is it okay to do with this weapon?
And what is a CPM GSM clinic?

Bamashooter
May 26, 2011, 04:40 PM
Cap.... I killed a 200 pound doe with my M-44 a few years ago at a distance of over 200yrds. with iron sights. I was using S&B match ammo loaded with 174gr. Sierra bullets. With alot of shooting and some good ammo you will be suprised what you can do with a mosin. I currently have three and love them all. Have fun.

Philo
May 26, 2011, 05:40 PM
Hello, about that bayonet being hard to get on and off...The Russian regulations were to have them mounted on rifle at all times..There were no scabards issued..

Yeah, don't try to force your bayonet on to the rifle. You will probably not be able to get it off again. It is a super tight fit and the darn thing is not exactly easy to grab and wrestle off. On my Mosin, I used a small Swiss file to remove metal from the inside edges of the bayonet collar. I got it to the point where it fits rigidly on the muzzle and enables me to twist it to lock it on and unlock/twist off without a lot of effort.

My Mosin was made in 1943 as well. I bought it a few weeks ago and cleaned it all up last week. Here are some pictures:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70640&stc=1&d=1306448983

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70641&d=1306448809

I took it out to the range to test fire it on Sunday. After 20 rounds, my shoulder was getting a bit tender. It got a little black and blue by that evening. I suppose next time I will wear more than a golf shirt or maybe invest in one of those rubber stock covers when I shoot it again. Nevertheless, it's a wonderful rifle and I am really happy with it. I am waiting for 440 round spam cans to go on sale again at the local department store. I plan to do a lot of shooting this summer.

MagnumWill
May 26, 2011, 05:43 PM
When I started shooting, the first one I shot was my M44. WOW it hurts when you hold it too tight :rolleyes:. 20 rounds and my shoulder was blue :eek:

After knowing how to handle it, I am able to put around 80-120 rounds through them before my shoulder gets tender. Don't be afraid, it eventually stops biting so hard.

And yes, people really do sell the rifle short. I have two of them, one of which that has undergone extensive surgery to turn it into a PU sniper variant (new scope, scope mount, stock, bolt turndown, freefloated barrel and triggerwork). It's a 1943 Izzy, the other one os a '34 Tula hex with a laminate stock.

So far, I have been able to manage 3 MOA from an improvised rest using Bulgarian surplus ammo. Using good clean Winchester FMJs (or maybe some 7N1 Russian) I wouldn't be surprised if it threw around one MOA.

I have currently reduced the trigger pull to approximately 3.5 pounds, so it's much more responsive than it looks :)

http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b419/will__berry/RedoneSVMN2.jpg

And the Tula. It has a bright bore, non-CAI import, beautiful bluing and was 75 dollars on GB (guy thought the toe splice was damage and repair :D)
http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b419/will__berry/TheTula1.jpg

Have fun with the Mosin Nagants, they're wonderful guns and can take a colossal beating and still function. And they really do look good when dressed up.

MagnumWill
May 26, 2011, 05:55 PM
Oh, and nice gun Philo! The brass capped handguard is way cool :)

Philo
May 26, 2011, 06:22 PM
Oh, and nice gun Philo! The brass capped handguard is way cool

Thanks. It was the only Mosin in the store that had the brass caps on it.

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 07:11 PM
It's great having firearms that have history to them.
I cant get over how many people own them.
I'll try to file the bayonet down so I can put it on. :)
It'll be a great blast.
How much do the FMJ's go for?

kraigwy
May 26, 2011, 07:23 PM
Dry firing is normally bad....
Is it okay to do with this weapon?
And what is a CPM GSM clinic?
__________________


There are few guns that can't be dryfired, I don't know of any military rifle (excluding 22 trainers) that cant be dryfired. You certainly wont hurt a Mosin by dryfiring.

The purpose of the dummy rounds isn't because you can't dry fire, but to have some rounds to put in the stripper clips to practice loading. The Mosin is a stange creature when it comes to loading the stripper clips but with a bit of practice you can get pretty quick.

Just make some dummy rounds by taking the decapper out of the sizing die. sizing the case and insert a new bullet. I drill holes in the side of my case to make sure I don't screw up and load a loaded round.


CMP GSM Clinic The Main mission of the Civiliam Marksmanship Unit is to provide training to U.S Citizens, its been that way since Teddy Roosevelt started the program (then known as the DCM).

The GSM clinic instructs individuals marksmanship using vintage military rifles, it covers the fundamentals, positions, operating and sighing the rifles and how to compete in CMP GSM Games.

The CMP trains experienced instructors as Master Instructors for GSM or Garand, Springfield Military Games. Modern Military and Sporter Rimfire shooting also comes under the GSM. When one complete the clinic, he is then authorized to buy surplus military rifles (Garands) from the CMP. The individual also needs to be a member of a CMP Club and be a Citizen of the U.S.
Anybody know where I can find stripper clips at and for how much?

Cheaper Thin Dirt

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/SearchResults.aspx?catid=1028&site=All+Products&num=15&q=mosin+stripper+clips

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 08:30 PM
"I drill holes in the side of my case to make sure I don't screw up and load a loaded round."

My mom would need a better reason why theres a hole half the size of Texas in my wall. lol

I dont get what you mean...
Could I just use casings?
What do you mean by taking out the decapper?
English please. :)
I'm still new to the gunsmithing lingo. :)

sonick808
May 26, 2011, 08:35 PM
hey, cool gun!!! And congratulations to you!

I LOVE shooting my mosins, I have an m44 and an M91/30. They are so much fun to shoot. Nice solid action, lots of history, lots of power, lots of fire and flame from the barrel, lots of noise!

Sure they aren't sub MOA rifles, but they're pretty decent on accuracy for their age!

I've never seen anyone shooting a Mosin-Nagant that didn't have a big huge GRIN on their face

Enjoy it for the rest of your life comrade :)

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 08:46 PM
I've read recently that the gun is more accurate with the bayonet on it?

Is that a myth? Or does it really shoot better with a bayonet on it?

I'm leaning towards the fact that it's a myth.

Silent Titan
May 26, 2011, 08:59 PM
its not that they shoot better its that they were originally zeroed with it on. when you take the weight off the barrel you will shoot off just a bit. the first time you take it out you can adjust the sights if you dont plan on shooting with the bayonet.

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 09:37 PM
How would I do that?

Silent Titan
May 26, 2011, 09:45 PM
you need to use a brass punch for the front sight and elevation is the rear sight. shot it first, each rifle is different and it might not need any adjustment.

kraigwy
May 26, 2011, 10:11 PM
The problem is most Mosins shoot high. (Mine shot 8 inches high when the rear sight was bottomed out.
Measure from the front sight to the rear sight to get the sight radius. Divide that number by 3600 (number of inches in 100 yards). That should be somewhere in the neighborhood of .0061. That means for every .0061 your move the sight, it moves the impact 1 inch at 100 yards.

Kind of hard to add to the front sight, but you can lower the rear sight after its bottomed out.

The slider moves up and down the ladder to adjust for elevation. The sight base allows the rear sight to go higher as you move it up.

No if you were to take the sight off the sight base (one pin holding it on) and flip it over, you can grind, mill or file the bottom of the slider to allow it to set lower on the base.

Like I said, I figured mine to be .0061 per MOA, so I stuck it in the milling machine, milled .0488 of the bottom of the slider. (8 X .0061 = .0488). I put it back together and found it right on at 100 yards when the sight was set at the 100 mark. On when set at 200, 300 etc etc also.

If you grind or file the sight make sure its flat and even, don't want your sight to set cockeyed on the rifle.

Fixing the sights in this manner does not disqualify the rifle from AS ISSUED CMP Games.

Philo
May 26, 2011, 10:14 PM
FMJ ammo prices are pretty reasonable. At my local department store, I can get Wolf 7.62x54R for $12.99 per 20 rounds. They also sell spam cans of 440 rounds for $99.99 regular price. I've seen the sale price for $89.99 on that. If you shop around online, you can find good sources as well. For example: Aim Surplus. (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76254R&name=Russian+7.62x54R+147grn+FMJ+440rd+Can&groupid=40)

capflyboy05
May 26, 2011, 10:14 PM
Sweet. Thanks for your help. :)
Hopefully she wont need too much work. :)

9-ball
May 27, 2011, 04:44 AM
The problem is most Mosins shoot high. (Mine shot 8 inches high when the rear sight was bottomed out.
Measure from the front sight to the rear sight to get the sight radius. Divide that number by 3600 (number of inches in 100 yards). That should be somewhere in the neighborhood of .0061. That means for every .0061 your move the sight, it moves the impact 1 inch at 100 yards.

There's a very logical explenation for this. Most of the world works with scientific units, for length being meters...

100 yars is less than 100 meters, so it's pretty normal you shoot too high.

kraigwy
May 27, 2011, 07:18 AM
That dog don't hunt.

If the 7.62X54R round is sighted in at 100 meters, and you decide to shoot at 100, you're gonna be about 0.15 inches high. Most Mosins shoot about 6 to 8 inches high.

There are a couple theories about why, some say its because the Mosin was designed to be fired with the bayonet on, some say its because soldiers are taught to aim at the belt buckle and it would hit the chest are.............I don't know why. I just know just about every Mosin I've seen shoots 6-8 inches high. The Meter vs Yard deal isn't gonna make that much difference.

I do know the CMP doesn't allow rifles to be fired in their matches with bayonets attached.

rifleman8
May 27, 2011, 07:58 AM
Anybody made a 650 yd shot? I've read thats their max. effective range.


Found this video a while back. 1000 yards with a P/U Mosin, although he mentions he floated the barrel, glass bedded the reciever, etc. In my opinion, pretty impressive.

Philo
May 27, 2011, 09:31 AM
Sweet. Thanks for your help.
Hopefully she wont need too much work.

Capflyboy, I spent about 3 hours disassembling, cleaning, lubing, and reassembling mine. This included the bayonet work. It's a real pain in the butt removing all the 50+ year old cosmoline. It was packed into every nook and cranny on my rifle. I suggest you do it outside or in your garage since it is smelly and messy work. Get a decent .30 caliber rifle cleaning kit. I also used a 9mm bore brush to clean the chamber.

The instructions I got with the rifle are marginal and confusing. If you are unsure about how to disassemble your Mosin, do a search on YouTube. There are lots of good videos on there that will guide you. All-in-all, it does not require rocket science. The trickiest part is figuring out how to put the bolt back together properly and checking the firing pin to make sure it protrudes within the safe range.

After you shoot your Mosin, make sure you clean it soon afterwards because Russian ammo tends to be very corrosive. I use Hoppes #9 to dissolve the powder residue.

Jack O'Conner
May 27, 2011, 09:46 AM
I've read that hunters in former Soviet states such as Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria have been using the Mosin for sometime. This rifle has been knocking over red stags, bears, and wild boars without any fuss at all.

I'm very amazed that Remington does not offer core-lockt ammunition for this fine hunting cartridge!

Good shooting to you.

Jack

9-ball
May 27, 2011, 11:23 AM
didn't notice that you meant 8 inches on 100 yards. That's a lot! All the mosins that I've seen didn't have that problem. Is your mosin in good condition?

kraigwy
May 27, 2011, 01:44 PM
Is your mosin in good condition?

Yeap I went through a bunch of them with a bore light to find a good barrel, and the action is as smooth as a prom queen's thighs.

After cutting down the bottom of the rear sight, is shoots dern good.

capflyboy05
May 27, 2011, 06:30 PM
I already cleaned her up the day I got her! :D
The bayonet is giving me hell though. :P lol

ksstargazer
May 27, 2011, 07:08 PM
The typical mosin shoots 6-8 in high at 100 yards using the 100 meter setting for a variety of reasons. First of all, if the Soviet soldier was told to aim at the belt of an enemy, he would have a chance of hitting the enemy from point blank range to 400 meters. I doubt during the heat of battle on the Eastern Front, a Soviet soldier had the time to readjust his sights.
Most of my Soviet mosins shoot around 6" high at 100 yards. My Finnish mosins usually shoot no more than 3" high at 100 yards on their lowest setting.

Philo
May 27, 2011, 08:47 PM
I'm very amazed that Remington does not offer core-lockt ammunition for this fine hunting cartridge!

Jack, I thought about that too, but they would probably have a hard time competing with all the cheap surplus ammo coming out of Russia and former Soviet satellites. The newly manufactured stuff from Russia is pretty cheap too.

wwd88888
May 27, 2011, 11:53 PM
because Russian ammo tends to be very corrosive

I've been shooting a .303 enfield forever. Windex or 1:10 parts ammonia and water are the ticket for deactivating the corrosive mercury salts from old surplus ammo. Run it down the barrel once, wait 30 seconds, patch until dry, then hit the Hoppes #9. Hoppes won't clean corrosive ammo.

Corrosive ammo is not as bad as it sounds.

capflyboy05
May 28, 2011, 05:19 PM
Welp, I passed on the Mosin bug.
I took a buddy up there to "just look."
He walked out with a rifle and two 20 round boxes. :)
Not just to go shoot!! :P

leadchucker
May 28, 2011, 08:37 PM
The "corrosive" term is misleading. The offending substance in a "corrosive" primer is potassium chloride (potassium salt, very similar to table salt.) It readily absorbs moisture, and when it does, it invites corrosion.

Potassium salt is water soluble. Water will remove it easily. Soap makes the water more effective at removing it. (Windex has soap in it.) Dish soap works just fine.

Soooooo, after you shoot, just swab the bore good with a water/soap solution, followed by the usual bore cleaner of your choice, and some good firearms oil.

Unless you have a pierced primer caused by a misadjusted firing pin, that crud won't be anywhere in the rifle except the chamber and the bore.

Think about this:
Russian or Soviet 7.62x54r ammunition has always been "corrosive". It's all that the Mosin Nagant rifles have ever fired. These rifles have survived quite well for up to a hundred and twenty years and dozens of wars.

Those Mosins are a lot of fun to shoot. Big boom, big muzzle flash, big kick. Lovable!

customaquatics
May 29, 2011, 06:39 AM
PLEASE make sure that you are able to shoot the military surplus will likely incounter light armor piercing rounds. the conversation i had with ammunationtogo.com-

Ryan DepoisterAmmunition to Go
can you let me know what all i need to order some 7.62x54R ammo from you. i was wanting 440rds - 7.62x54R Silver Tip Russian Military Ammo.

Ammunition to Go We have plenty of Silver Tip in stock, Ryan. You can place your order and have it shipped directly to your address. We also have original Russian Military 7.62x54R 148gr. steel core ammo, which is very high quality at a great price. The part number for that is ORIGRUSS754. Thanks!
Thursday at 2:18pm · Like

Ryan Depoister isn't the steel core rounds armor piercing?
Friday at 4:06pm · Like

Ammunition to Go This is considered a light penetrator round, but not a true AP round.
Friday at 4:41pm · Like

yes these are we was shooting threw 1/4 inch steel plates at 50 yards like butter.

Josh Smith
May 30, 2011, 09:09 PM
Hello,

As for shooting high, you might check these out:

http://smith-sights.yolasite.com/resources/triplets.gif

Folks are seeming to like 'em.

Josh

Bamashooter
May 31, 2011, 09:39 PM
I shot my Hungarian M-44 today at some watermelon at around 75yrds. I was shooting Bulgarian brass cased heavy ball and nailing the melons and several pieces of watermelon with no problem. Had a good time. My son is 12 and he shot it for the first time ever. I think he was a little nervous but after he shot it he was wanting to shoot it again. Those old guns are lots of fun.

rickyrick
June 1, 2011, 10:44 AM
They dont kick as much as my much lighter enfield. i figgured out an easy fix to smoothe the action up a little...if I can find that picture again.