PDA

View Full Version : the wife wants a .25 cal


solastin
May 21, 2011, 03:16 PM
And I'm looking at a bauer with pearl grips for about a 100 bucks does this sound like a good deal

aarondhgraham
May 21, 2011, 03:30 PM
But I just purchased a Taurus PLY in .25 ACP,,,
It was $201.00 from Buds Gun Shop dot Com.

http://www.aarondgraham.com/pics/PLY-hand.jpg

Just this morning I took it to the range,,,
I ran 100 rounds of Aguilar FMJ thought her,,,
I experienced no stoppages or failures of any type.

It is a DAO semi-auto pistol with a tip-up barrel,,,
The magazine holds 8 rounds plus 1 more in the barrel,,,
The weight is a mere 10.8 ounces due to it's polymer frame.

I'm not saying this is the best .25 semi-automatic pistol out there,,,
I'm simply saying I own one and it works very well,,,
But as always, your mileage may vary

Aarond

mas12990
May 21, 2011, 03:39 PM
save your money. buy her a can of pepper spray...... they both cause about the same deterent to an attacker.

aarondhgraham
May 21, 2011, 04:14 PM
buy her a can of pepper spray......
they both cause about the same deterent to an attacker.

That is utter nonsense!

I've heard all of these old jokes,,,
Heck, I've told some of them myself

The one I shot today put a round through two 2x4 boards,,,
That's better than pepper spray I would think.

I'm not saying it's an hombre-stopping, anti-meth head, gorilla nukeing round,,,
But in my not-so-humble opinion it beats a sharp stick any day.

My personal reason for buying the PLY pistols,,,
Was to have the lightest/smallest pistol I could find,,,
For its intended use small size is more important than caliber.

In actuality the .22 PLY loaded with Mini-Mag hollow points,,,
Just Might be as effective a pistol for self defense,,,
But I believe centerfire is better than rimfire.

Although the DAO action of the .22 (or the .25) PLY,,,
Makes a second (or third) hammer strike very simple.

Plead with your wife not to base her decision on cuteness and pink grips,,,
But hey, if that's the only gun she will have, it's better than nothing.

Aarond

JohnRaven
May 21, 2011, 05:28 PM
I would have to STRONGLY suggest a 32ACP. Quite a step up from .25.

If recoil is the main factor, a small pocket 32ACP would be fine.
My wife has a P32 Kel-tec and the recoil is almost non-existant.
I have fairly small hands and I can fire it with only holding it with my thumb and trigger finger...

NJgunowner
May 21, 2011, 05:48 PM
I'd rather be pepper sprayed than shot by anything. You can't rinse off a bullet wound and be fine an hour later.

Bill DeShivs
May 21, 2011, 06:00 PM
$100 for a working Bauer is a great deal! They are good little guns.
If your wife will learn to use it, at least she will have a gun.

Clifford L. Hughes
May 21, 2011, 06:10 PM
Sp;aston.

When it comes to self defence any caliber is better then nothiing, even the .22 rim fire. Think about this; however, when you shoot an assaliant with a .25 he might kill you before he dies. In my opinion nothing under .38 Special/9mm is adequate for self defense.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L Hughes
USMC Retired

Kalel01a
May 21, 2011, 06:48 PM
Guys.. This is a great discussion, but remember, bullet placement is key for any defensive round. If cost of ammo is an issue for practice, it really gives an edge to a .22lr, or anything that has a .22lr option for practice.

Solid practice with good shooting technique will turn any gun from a paper weight to an effective deterrent.

Sarge
May 21, 2011, 06:50 PM
Buy her the Bauer. The important thing is that she starts shooting something. Move up to something better at her own speed.

spodwo
May 21, 2011, 07:21 PM
I would have to STRONGLY suggest a 32ACP. Quite a step up from .25.



I had a great little Sterling .25 but I lost it in a house fire - so I replaced it with a Beretta .32. I REALLY like it better than the .25.

Just a thought....

Kevinch
May 21, 2011, 07:58 PM
One word of advice: keep referring to her as "the wife" & she may point it at you...:cool:

stoney64
May 21, 2011, 08:27 PM
Buy it, that's a can't go wrong price on that pistol.

.25 will do the job for her, a woman in Georgia recently killed an attacker with a .22.

glock20c
May 21, 2011, 08:34 PM
what's your wife's experience with a semi auto vs revolver vs ever firing a gun?

michael t
May 21, 2011, 08:49 PM
I had a bauer for years but Its a striker and I never felt good packing with round in chamber . I went with the Beretta. 950BS back then Today its the model 21 SA/DA pistol . I was forced to draw the Beretta one early morning in a parking garage . Just sight of gun sent the guy running.

pinetree
May 21, 2011, 09:04 PM
As a man that carries a 25acp often, there are some great choices out there. I inherited a Colt vest-pocket, in the box and didn't want to shoot it too much. I like single actions and bougth a Beretta 950 Jetfire. Great gun in a pocket sized package. I had a Keltec P32 and it broke. I loved the gun but the link between the trigger and ?bar that cocks the hammer? just snapped of course when I was teaching my wife how to shoot it. I fixed it, Keltec has great web and company support, but I was done with it.

Wife actually strongly prefers a revolvers. She has "stolen" my Ruger SP101 3" 357 but I am buying here here own 38 snubby. I had a discussion on the patio with 4-5 woman and all preferred revolvers. I am talking about semi-novice shooters.

NJgunowner
May 21, 2011, 09:15 PM
Guys.. This is a great discussion, but remember, bullet placement is key for any defensive round. If cost of ammo is an issue for practice, it really gives an edge to a .22lr, or anything that has a .22lr option for practice.

Shot placement doesn't mean crapola without penetration. If the round your using doesn't reach something vital it doesn't matter how many times you shoot them.

.25 is iffy, it just is. 9mm is decent but a lot of people have been shot by a 9mm and had the round stop short of a vital area, even with multiple shots.

I wouldn't want to take my chances with any of them. I've been shot by a bb gun once or twice and that was plenty :D

ClydeFrog
May 21, 2011, 10:00 PM
As training & use of force expert Massad Ayoob sez; "Friends don't let friends carry mouseguns." ;)

A "pocket auto" .25acp is in general a bad idea.
I'd get her a .380acp at least or maybe a compact 9x19mm or .357sig.
The smallest self defense or carry caliber I'd suggest is the .380acp or .38spl +P.
Handguns are not toys, props or fashion items. If she is serious get her the proper training & weapons.

CF

Bill DeShivs
May 21, 2011, 10:45 PM
Oh crap, guys!
His wife wants a gun! The gun is a great buy.
Lose it with the caliber stuff.

dsk
May 21, 2011, 10:46 PM
If she really has to have something "small and cute" get the .32ACP Kel-Tec. As mentioned the recoil is still very light. Yes it is true that all firearms (even a .22 or .25) are potentially lethal, but you really want to give her as much of a fighting chance as you can.

Like with most things, women have a tendency to value appearance over functionality. My own mother lamented when I took away the "pretty" chrome-plated Jennings .22 I once gave her and replaced it with something black and ugly, but a bit more substantial.

Onward Allusion
May 21, 2011, 11:01 PM
solastin
the wife wants a .25 cal
And I'm looking at a bauer with pearl grips for about a 100 bucks does this sound like a good deal

$100 for a Bauer is a great deal. Does it work?

However, I would not recommend using a .25ACP for self defense. Consider a Kel-Tec P-32. It's as light if not lighter and thinner than a Bauer. The .32ACP packs more than twice the energy than a .25ACP and that's not saying a lot.

scoobydoo6906
May 22, 2011, 12:13 AM
my thoughts on the .25acp is that its not the best choice but it still has killed and nobody would like being shot with one. I think 9mm gets a bad rap for being marginal for no reason. I think if you look at the numbers its stops just as well as a .45acp or .40s&w. this what I think if you can't stop them with a 9mm any caliber handgun would have failed. yes I am saying .44mag, .357, any caliber. if the bullet can expand and penetrate to the vital organs large caliber really provides little advantage short of a slightly larger wound channel. its a handgun not a death ray. I think the best proof I can offer to prove my thoughts about caliber is with deer hunting. deer die just the same with a .25-06 or .30-06. bullet, vitals, dead deer. different bullet same result

zombieslayer
May 22, 2011, 10:21 AM
Its a good price. I'd get it for her, but with the intent of it being well understood that the round has questionable lethality and that the gun would be a learning tool.

Amin Parker
May 22, 2011, 10:34 AM
A 25 beats going unarmed. It is so small and light that you have no excuse to go anywhere without it.

As far stopping power, i dont think anyone will remain determined if he has 3 25 projectiles hitting him in the face in quick succession.

solastin
May 22, 2011, 10:46 AM
actually my wife has rotc training from college but she just wants something small to carry.and that she is a emt and nurse she doesn't want a big cal.

lcpiper
May 22, 2011, 11:06 AM
It's easy to buy a wife a handgun, sometimes it's harder to get her to shoot it, or carry it.

It's a good price and can always be sold off later at no loss as long as it's undamaged.

Buy it, get her shooting it. Get in your shooting outings, and she will try other guns and you might even get her to carry, women love to be safe. Most women prefer a man to keep them safe but a gun will do in a pinch.

Get her on the road, work out the destination along the way.

Of course, some women just like to use guns to intimidate men :eek:

P.S. I told a friend I was going to teach my wife to shoot. He said it's a huge mistake cause the only person she is ever liable to shoot is me.


Just spotted your latest post as I finished mine. She is an emt, want's to use a smaller gun cause she doesn't wana kill someone with it ? You know it really doesn't work that way right ? I mean a gun, even a .22 will kill. The defense caliber debate isn't about what will and won't kill, it's about what will stop a guy so fast that if you get in your shot first he won't be shooting back again.

Don't let her get away thinking you can pull a gun and scare someone off because it's not always the case. In fact it's less about the gun and more about the attitude and "aura" of the person using it. Defiance, resolute, not prey. Just like animals in the wild.

I am sure you know this stuff but sometimes people get odd ideas that just don't work out they way they thought.

stealintv
May 22, 2011, 11:13 AM
$100 for a Bauer? Great deal. Mine cost twice that. The Bauer .25 is a good shooter and will serve her well. It is so small and easy to use. It also has a magazine disconnect safety. That is a good feature for her to train with, IMO. If an attacker attempts to disarm her, teach her to drop the magazine and the pistol will not fire. Not a bad idea to carry some OC foam too! Cheers.

ammo.crafter
May 22, 2011, 11:15 AM
Get her the gun.
Let her play with it a lot. Shoot at plywood, 2 x 4's, etc. She will the effect of the .25acp
When she asks what other rounds do as far as defensive power, show her. You'd be surprised.

My petit 5'4" 120 attorney wife started with a .22, moved to a 38 Smith and just absolutley loves a 1911 in 45acp...200gr SWC at approx 850f/s.

OK I have to say it, think .22 mag.....better than a 25.

:D

roaddog28
May 22, 2011, 11:16 AM
save your money. buy her a can of pepper spray...... they both cause about the same deterent to an attacker.
That is good advice. Seriously, a 25 acp is about as effective as a 22 LR. That means it’s not a very good gun for self defense. She probably likes it because it’s “cute”. If she really wants to carry a small handgun she would be better off with a snub nose revolver. She would have a lot more choices with a revolver. Plus they are easier to operate and I still feel more reliable than most semi-autos. A 38 special snub nose five shot revolver can be bought for around $300. The choices for ammo are better and a 38 special and will be cheaper to shoot. The reason I say this is that she needs to practice at the range a lot to feel comfortable shooting a handgun. Most women are afraid of guns. So buying any handgun for her might be a waste of money if she does not carry it.
Again, you might be better to buy some pepper spray. There are some excellent choices that law enforcement uses for their officers.
Good luck,
Howard

KyJim
May 22, 2011, 12:12 PM
$100 for the gun is a good price. Let her pick what she wants. Otherwise she may never shoot or carry it. It's not the ideal caliber but carrying it puts her ahead of 99% of the people out there.

seeker_two
May 22, 2011, 01:36 PM
I'm with Bill...if that's the gun she wants, get it for her. I'll just add one caveat....skip the American-made ammo and go straight for the European-made FMJ like Fiocci and S&B. Euro ammo is loaded hotter in pocket-pistol calibers...up to 100fps faster. The extra energy translates into more reliable operation and deeper penetration.

I've occasionally pocket-carried a .25ACP....I think of it like an icepick...an icepick that stabs six times at 800fps....but an icepick nevertheless....make sure she also has a backup knife, too.....

dajowi
May 22, 2011, 02:46 PM
I had a little Raven .25 and it was a great shooting little gun. Never a single issue with it. I wouldn't want to get shot with it.

The Bauer .25 looks like a nice little pistol.

Bill DeShivs
May 22, 2011, 03:07 PM
I'm sure most of you have no idea what a Bauer is.
They are 4 inches long, and weigh less than 12 ounces. Bauers are stainless copies of the famous Browning "Baby."
They are extremely small, well made guns.
The Keltec P32 is larger, but lighter.
The Bauer will sell for $200-$300.

Daekar
May 22, 2011, 03:42 PM
I agree.. lay off the caliber crap. As long as she understands that is necessary to empty that mag in an attacker and knows the limitations of the round, let her have her 25. I wouldn't carry one myself, but if that was the most powerful cartridge my wife would carry, then I would sure as hell get it for her.

Coltman 77
May 22, 2011, 05:00 PM
With all respect OP, I'd suggest your wife get some quality handgun training.

Check with your local NRA folks. The NRA offers a program called "Women On Target" that is taught by women and for women. Costs $20.00.

Here's a description from my club's website;

"This is the perfect opportunity for women to learn Safe Gun Handling, Ammunition Basics, and Proper Gun Storage then practice the learned skills on the range during a session in a safe, non-competitive atmosphere. Women, ages 16 and older, are in-vited to participate.
Admission is $20.00 and includes range time, use of handguns and safety equipment, ammunition, targets, and one-on-one instruction as well as lunch."

We can discuss various handgun platforms, manufacturers and models all day long but basic training is mandatory for someone who is not familiar with handguns.

Good luck. :)

ETA

The minimum caliber for self defense is 9mm or .38 Special.

Here's a link you should appreciate:

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

RKG
May 22, 2011, 05:05 PM
Putting aside the debate about the utility of the .25 ACP cartridge (a good idea, since that debate will never end), I'd recommend something else for your wife for a couple of reasons. No. 1: the .25 Bauer (a knock-off of the .25 Baby Browning) is a blowback pistol, and as a result the recoil spring is stiff and cycling the slide can be difficult for those will small hands and little firearms experience. No. 2: for same reason, recoil and muzzle flip can be noticeable. No. 3: the Bauer is a single-action, striker-fired pistol, which means that one has to spend some time learning how it works to be able to carry it safely.

What the "something else" should be probably generates a debate nearly as endless. There are some good .32 and .380 mouse guns and some bad ones. Recently (and on a lark) I acquired a newly manufactured SIG P238 (.380) and found:

Despite its diminutive size, it is easy to shoot.

Being a locked breech pistol, the slide cycles easily.

For the same reason, recoil and muzzle flip are minimal.

The drawback of the P238 for a non-gun person is that its manual of arms is similar to that of a Gov't Model (it is, in fact, a re-design of the Colt Mustang), which requires a bit more training, practice and the willingness to engage in same than some "I'm not a gun person, I just want this for protection" people are willing to engage in.

TinyDee
May 22, 2011, 05:55 PM
Both she and you will be happy with the 25. My wife has a Bauer, just great and has had a Colt too. For me it is forget the Taurus, but maybe that is just me...

scottl
May 22, 2011, 06:25 PM
save your money. buy her a can of pepper spray...... they both cause about the same deterent to an attacker.
We had a family member shot and killed by a fella with .25 Baby Browning.And it wasn't point blank range either.He was shot while driving his tractor down the road.

Kalel01a
May 22, 2011, 10:11 PM
Shot placement doesn't mean crapola without penetration. If the round your using doesn't reach something vital it doesn't matter how many times you shoot them.

.25 is iffy, it just is. 9mm is decent but a lot of people have been shot by a 9mm and had the round stop short of a vital area, even with multiple shots.

I wouldn't want to take my chances with any of them. I've been shot by a bb gun once or twice and that was plenty :D

I see your point, but I look at it from the bumblebee's point of view... Ya know the scientific issue where the bumblebee can't fly because the wings are disproportionately small to it's body, but cause no one ever told the bumblebee this, it goes ahead and flies anyway? Well, those thousands of people who have killed or been killed by .25s and .22s must've been too ignorant to know they aren't lethal, so the bullets ended up fatal. Oh well, maybe we should tell them... We might raise the dead!

All joking aside though, any bullet is fatal with the right placement. Remember, Ronald Reagan and four other men were downed with 1 shot each from a .22lr. Kinda scary if ya think about it.

ClydeFrog
May 22, 2011, 10:46 PM
I'm still going on record as saying a .25acp pistol is a BAD idea.

The main goal of armed citizen defense is to use the LEAST amount of force required to STOP a threat.
Telling a female gun owner or new shooter to buy a small caliber pistol then shoot a attacker 15 times in the face is neither prudent or practical.
Real personal security or training issues are not games or after-thoughts. :(

It takes; effort time $$$ and skill to learn how to protect yourself or others.
You can't "go cheap" or cut corners.
Unless you like jail or funeral homes, these are important factors to consider.

CF

SRE
May 22, 2011, 10:55 PM
Ruger LCP .380

Has the size and stopping power you would want for her.

franco45
May 22, 2011, 11:07 PM
I shoot with my nephew regularly. Between us we own 2 or 3 of most of the pistol calibers. This includes 22lr, 22wmr, 25acp, 32 acp, 380 acp, 9mm, 38 special, 357 mag. and 45 acp. His wife has shot with us several times. She is diabetic, arthritic and blind in one eye. She just passed her CCW and indicated that she wanted a NAA Black Widow in 22 mag. She will have one in her pocket next week. :)

NJgunowner
May 22, 2011, 11:17 PM
All joking aside though, any bullet is fatal with the right placement. Remember, Ronald Reagan and four other men were downed with 1 shot each from a .22lr. Kinda scary if ya think about it.

All true and I don't want to be shot by any of them. But statistically speaking your odds of stopping an assailant quickly before they can do you harm is much better with a larger caliber. Reagan lived and so did everyone else Hinckley shot, if the guy had used a 10mm or .45, would that have still be true? Who knows I guess, but I have a feeing there would have been a death or 3. Also of the 4 people he shot, how many just fell down and stayed that way to avoid notice? Could have fought if that had been their inclination? Hard to say.

Hinckley actually used exploding rounds for his .22 and STILL didn't kill anyone. One exploded in James Brady's brain and it didn't kill him. (It had been loaded with six "Devastator"-brand cartridges which contained small aluminum and lead azide explosive charges designed to explode on contact). One guy was hit in neck and lived, the other in the abdomen and lived.

I'm betting the head shot and neck shot would have been fatal with a .45 or 10mm, and the .22 round stopped an inch short of Reagan's heart so he'd probably have died too.

In case anyone is wondering I'm only going into this to make the caliber point since Reagan's shooting was brought up, and I'm working 10pm to 8am tonight and I'm bored :p

Daekar
May 22, 2011, 11:27 PM
To echo others: If your wife is willing to carry a 32 or 380, I suggest you present her with options in those calibers too. I have a Sig p238 as well, and it is one of the easiest shooting guns I've ever had. Easy to rack the slide, very little recoil, good sights. I have already introduced a family member to it who bought one immediately after trying it. Neither of us care for recoil. Anyway, that's my recommendation if she is interested in other calibers... hopefully someone will chime in with a good 32acp suggestion.

lcpiper
May 23, 2011, 12:17 AM
Umm, training guys, he did say his wife received training in Army ROTC, so did my daughter where she went on to be top shooter in her class at Ft. Benning in the Army Marksmanship Shoots. Obviously not all ROTC training is the same, too many different schools, too many different instructors, but they do have a curriculum and it is reasonably well run.

The lady will know how to operate a handgun.

My kid came away loving the Glock 23, makes an old warhorse wana cry but that's the breaks. I bet this lady shot several different weapons already just like mine did and she wants a .25 Bauer.

I'll bet her husband is smart and buys it for her.

I bet they go have fun at the range together, and shoot other guns as well.

Perhaps she will move on to something with more power later, or perhaps she will stick with what she has, that's up to her.

But I bet her man will help her in the right dirrection while they have fun along the way.

Jesus some of you act like she's jumping out of a plane without a chute :p

aroundchicago
May 23, 2011, 12:25 AM
In my opinion, don't get her a little .25 because it's about the least effective round made. Guns that are chambered in .25acp are small, close up pistols. If an attacker is close enough for her to need it, it might not slow an attacker down much. Yeah I suppose it's better than nothing, but she'd be better off with a .380 or .38 special.

Bill DeShivs
May 23, 2011, 03:21 AM
Um, couldn't his wife have more than one gun?
I have a Bauer, and a Browning, and 3 Berettas, and a Bernardelli, and a Llama. All .25s, and I like them all!
I just bought a S&W .38 top break. Would i carry it? Yes, but I bought it because I LIKED it.

rvehock
May 23, 2011, 05:34 AM
My wife likes both of her pistols, first is her Astra Cub .25acp, extremely accurate and 100% reliable:
http://vehock.dyndns.org/Astra%20Cub/Cub3_small.jpg
Second is her Kel-Tec P-32 .32acp, fairly accurate and also 100% reliable:
http://vehock.dyndns.org/p32_g.jpg
The Kel-Tec P-32 is her prefered carry due to the light weight but the Astra makes it's way into her purse every now and then. Overall I would rather her carry the P-32 over the Astra Cub.

micromontenegro
May 23, 2011, 08:39 AM
A .25 is a very nice thing to have when you cannot have a pistol :)

On those occasions, I carry a Browning Baby (the Bauer is a clone), and I feel far better doing that than going gunless. Very reliable little gun. My only qualm is that I think it should be carried in condition 3. But then again, DA .25s are bigger enough to warrant taking a .32 or 380 instead, at least for me. YMMV.

dlb435
May 23, 2011, 08:42 AM
Please get her something better than a .25 auto. 45 years ago one of my crazy friends used to carry a .25 auto. He shot a guy at a bar one night. Hit him in right between the eyes, about 1/2 inch up. The bullet didn't even penetrate the skull. Somehow my crazy friend got out of there without the beating that he so justly deserved. The "victim" didn't even go to the doctor.
A 22 is better than the .25 auto. Better yet, get her a 32 auto.
FYI - my crazy friend was involved in one more shooting with his .25 auto. He shot an other guy in the arm. Again, no permanent injury. After that, he quite drinking and went to law school.....now you know were lawyers come from.

chadstrickland
May 23, 2011, 08:56 AM
I agree with some of the others..a. 22 would be better..you can get alot more practice with it..its cheaper to shoot and odds are it will penetrate more

lcpiper
May 23, 2011, 09:02 AM
I met a guy once about 30+ years ago carried a small deformed bullet on a neck chain. It was a .25 that did the same thing, stuck in his forhead.

The problem is that alot of times people shoot once and expect a certain outcome and when they don't get it it freaks them a little and they stop shooting.

Or they are surprised they actually pulled the trigger at all.

But when someone is serious about using a gun to kill you, and I mean they want you dead serious. They will use every round they have as long as they think your alive. The first might bounce off the skull, but one is going to find the nasal cavity, or an eye socket, or they will just pump shots center mass looking for a vital. And that's why .25 autos have been the death of thousands.

dlb435
May 23, 2011, 01:08 PM
The only problem with a 22 is that is like cutting up someone with a stiletto. Lots of folks die from being shot with a 22 but only after slowly bleeding out. If you don't hit something vital it can take hours for the shot to have the desired results. Not real good for self defence.

zombieslayer
May 23, 2011, 01:42 PM
Fwiw- I do know someone who took a .25acp to the skull... He was out of the hospital and walking around the same day. Not a friend, just a local gangbanger wannabe.

HisSoldier
May 23, 2011, 01:44 PM
$100 for a good condition Bauer is a gift. As for carry, if she is comfortable carrying it good for her. She will hear enough negative comments to change her mind later, and the chances that she will ever have to shoot someone with it are miniscule. Show her this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGmwhXgV_xg

Used the way he shows pretty much makes a mouse gun look formidable.

Seaman
May 23, 2011, 02:27 PM
"The one I shot today put a round through two 2x4 boards,,," [aarondhgraham]

That is impressive for 25 ACP. Most 25 ACP facyory ammo is loaded powder light. Never seen a 25 ACP blow thru a double 2x4. Most 32 ACP (save one brand) and even 9x18 Mak bullets will not blow thru double 2x4 standard cut spruce. 380 barely makes it thru. And my Sig P238 (shorter barrel than PPK) will not blow thru double 2x4 spruce.

Would appreciate knowing what ammo you were using. Thanks.

aarondhgraham
May 23, 2011, 02:34 PM
Would appreciate knowing what ammo you were using. Thanks.

I was using Aguilar FMJ.

Now those 2x4's were from an old shipping pallet,,,
It's probably been out in the weather for a year,,,
But then again, a lot of them are made of oak.

I want to do the test again,,,
This time using new 2x8's screwed together.

Still, all in all I was impressed by the gun,,,
I do believe that a triple tap will do the trick,,,
But like I stated before it's not a T-Rex killer gun,,,
Just something lightweight and small that beats a sharp stick.

Aarond

Seaman
May 23, 2011, 03:10 PM
Hello Aarond ---

I guess you mean Aguila. Bought a small case (10 boxes - 500 rds) of their 45 ACP ammo and had to double or triple strike about 1-2 rounds per 50 rd per box before they would go boom. One of the cartridges, which I still have, was struck 5x and would not fire.

The best penetrating 25 ACP ammo I've tried is, surprisingly, WWB, which is available almost everywhere. Best performance was about one and one-half 2x4s. Do not have any Aguila 25 ACP. Tried their 32 ACP but S&B cut deeper.

You are right about old shipping pallets. Recently shot an oak shipping pallet board about an inch or more thick, the 25 ACP dug about a quarter inch hole and bounced off, the 380 stuck about half-way thru and the 45 ACP just blew thru and destroyed the board. All three pistols were about 3 inch barreled (2.7"-25 ACP, 2.7"-380 and 3"-45 ACP).

Made me think that a 25 ACP (even a 380) might not penetrate the human skull...which is where experts advise an attacker should be shot to stop the attack.

Thanks for the info.

hhb
May 23, 2011, 03:43 PM
I'm a retired LEO, investigated lots of shootings, and agree with our county coroner. The .25acp works fine. I investigated shooting where a guy got shot amidships with a .45acp and survived.

Onward Allusion
May 23, 2011, 04:15 PM
Made me think that a 25 ACP (even a 380) might not penetrate the human skull...which is where experts advise an attacker should be shot to stop the attack.

The upper forehead area is one of the hardest on the human body. Depending on angle, I wouldn't be surprise if a .380 ACP is deflected off. My practice lately has not been focusing on the head or CoM but rather the thoracic triangle region.

Bill DeShivs
May 23, 2011, 04:29 PM
The human skull is extremely difficult to penetrate, unless shot at a 90 degree angle. There are many instances of all calibers failing.

CNS shots are the only shure stop, but there are other "stops" not commonly discussed:
Intimidation- no one wants to get shot with anything.
Pain- after being shot, few will continue their actions.
Shock- realizing they have been shot (or shot at) usually stops further aggression.
Blood loss- this is the slowest method of stopping, even if a major organ is hit.

Having ANY gun beats being unarmed. Having a bigger gun is better, but only slightly so.

micromontenegro
May 23, 2011, 05:50 PM
If you are using a .25 ACP at all, you probably are close enough (contact or nearly so) to make use of the skull's natural cavities: nose and eye sockets. BTW, if the push comes to shove and I ever have to shoot at a skull (hope never happens), I'll try for the eye socket no matter what caliber.

KyJim
May 23, 2011, 05:53 PM
There are stories of people taking hits to the skull from just about any caliber without penetrating the skull. Not saying the .25 is the best because it's not.

sonick808
May 23, 2011, 06:20 PM
Seaman, which brand of .32ACP are you referring to (that IS able to penetrate 2x4)

I'm guessing Fiocchi, but I'm curious which you had in mind. I carry Fiocchi as it has tested remarkably well in gel.

Whichever mouse gun OP ends up with, or anyone else for that matter, I wouldn't mess with hollowpoints. Expansion means nothing without penetration. Ball ammo only .380 and below

stoney64
May 23, 2011, 06:45 PM
Solastin, first off welcome to TFL, there are posters on this forum, Bill DeShivs comes to mind among others, who are real helpful and full of usefull info but be warned, you already posted one of the argument starters.

Don't post positive about;

Taurus (junk)
Hi-Point (double junk)
.22 or .25 as carry guns (must be .40 or .45 with 4 extra mags)

and never ever speak ill of Springfield (11th commandment)

otherwise you can have fun and learn alot

stoney64
May 23, 2011, 06:50 PM
Remember, Rep. Giffords in AZ was shot in the head at close range with a Glock 19, that's a 9mm folks, she is alive and recovering. 9 mm is considered by some to be a worthy defensive round incl the U.S. military.

microman
May 23, 2011, 07:30 PM
the wife wants a .25 cal

I believe people should always pick what they want. If thats
what she wants so, be it. We all have our choices.

But..have you looked into .25 ammo availably in your area
and prices. I check both of these before I purchase any
firearm.

Kalel01a
May 23, 2011, 07:37 PM
All handgun calibers are weak, and under powered. But I know the secret to making any bullet, even a .25, 100% more effective... Use another bullet. Shhhhhhhh, don't tell anybody!

Seriously though, I practice with my .22 - 2 in the chest + 1 in the head. I figure that'll make the bad guy have a really bad day.

Still, I load with cci segmented. 3 wound channels are better than 1. And with my kids around, I don't have to worry as much about over penetration through floor and drywall.

Seaman
May 23, 2011, 08:18 PM
"Seaman, which brand of .32ACP are you referring to (that IS able to penetrate 2x4)" [sonick808]

Even 22 cal will penetrate a single 2x4 spruce stud.

S&B 32 ACP blew thru a double 2x4 (that is two spruce 2x4s), in fact it penetrated better than a variety of 380 and 9x18 Mak ammo tested.

Interestingly, WWB 25 ACP pentrated better than S&B 25 ACP. Go figure.

Handloaded ammo cuts even deeper.

ClydeFrog
May 23, 2011, 10:12 PM
I, for 1, disagree with "spray & pray" or "use your .25acp/.22LR like a bullet hose" methods. :(

A few years ago, an off duty police officer in Las Vegas NV was caught off guard in the middle of a violent armed robbery.
The cop drew a .32acp or .380acp pocket type pistol and fired several rounds at the subjects. The armed robbers exchanged fire with the LE officer & wounded him.
The brave cop lived and ended the armed robbery. He was later given a few service awards including the NRA Law Enforcement Officer of the Year honor.
When he returned to duty he started to pack a full size sidearm & 2 15rd pistol mags on & off duty. ;)

Mr. James
May 23, 2011, 10:52 PM
This discussion is really silly. ClydeFrog says an officer in one incident fired "several rounds" at the suspect. How many hit that suspect? There is an active thread here about a Jacksoville, Fla. sheriff's deputy who was shot in the mouth at contact range, took three more rounds to the vest, and a through-and-through wound to the thigh. All with a .45. He managed to fire back with a .45 and kill his assailant.

He says the bad guy fired 12 shots and he 14.

My response to the OP is why does your wife want this particular gun and caliber? Assuming she has cogent reasons for preferring these, decision made. End of discussion.

If there's reason to believe the decision is less than considered, broaden your horizons. I had a dear friend buy a Ruger LCP in .380 "for his wife." She can't operate the slide, and will never carry or fire that gun. Never. Oh, well, at least he got a pocket pistol.

Eagleks
May 23, 2011, 11:32 PM
My .02 cents, talk her into going at least to a .32 caliber, such as the Beretta Tomcat, or any of the others. Gives her more umph, without a lot of recoil, etc.

lcpiper
May 23, 2011, 11:55 PM
Going back to the OP's original question, the one he was asking for help with ....

And I'm looking at a bauer with pearl grips for about a 100 bucks does this sound like a good deal

Others have said it, I'll say it too.....

Yes, that is a good price if the gun is in decent shape :cool:

m_liebst
May 24, 2011, 12:04 AM
clydefrog wrote- A "pocket auto" .25acp is in general a bad idea.
I'd get her a .380acp at least or maybe a compact 9x19mm or .357sig.
The smallest self defense or carry caliber I'd suggest is the .380acp or .38spl +P.
Handguns are not toys, props or fashion items. If she is serious get her the proper training & weapons.

CF :confused:

You got to be kidding!?!, a weapon is better than nothing in her hand. We're not comparing, or underrating calibers, penetration, ballistical ability. We're talking about a viable solution to a pocket carry pistol for a price budget. Leave the the real issue be.

Nooo.... you haven't stood at point blank and been shot by a pocket pistol, but let me notify you.... They are actually fully capable of incapacitating a human. All ya need is 1 shot in the right place. People have been shot multiple times with a .45 and have not gone out.... BUT supposedly more people have died to the underated/ under estimated loley .22lr.

IMO, that's why we 've still been carrying this supposedly obselete, underpowered, round. ;)

But the real issue is: what can the wife get for the money!

Seaman
May 24, 2011, 07:33 AM
"There is an active thread here about a Jacksoville, Fla. sheriff's deputy who was shot in the mouth at contact range, took three more rounds to the vest, and a through-and-through wound to the thigh. All with a .45. He managed to fire back with a .45 and kill his assailant." [Mr. James]

Actually the thread is now locked. However, Officer Reston fired 14 rounds of 40 S&W SD ammo and the perp fired 12 rounds of 45 ACP FMJ. An intense shootout with multiple hits to both men.

Years ago I started out carrying 32 ACP (and 25 ACP too) and have slowly, inexorably (because of incidents like the one Mr. James has cited) moved up to 9mm para and/or 45 ACP as my two main caliber carrys.

In testing a lot of calibers for penetration I have come to the sober conclusion that a large i.e. 230 gr bullet delivered to the exact same spot as a small i.e. 50 gr bullet does more damage, and thus gives greater chances of stopping the attacker.

The other problem with 25 ACP is no manufacturer out there builds a high quality 3" barreled (for better velocity/penetration) hi-cap pocket pistol...think the Bauer is 2" barreled and I just don't feel real protected carrying my similar 25 ACP Colt automatic.

But if my wife wanted to protect herself with a teeny-tiny Bauer, it would be OK with me, it gives her a viable chance to survive.

sonick808
May 24, 2011, 11:51 AM
Seaman: Gotcha. I meant double, sorry about that. S&B performing well doesn't surprise me. I've gotten wonderful performance out of their cartridges in other calibers, and their brass is marvelous for reloading in my experience.

I totally agree that competent handloads deserve a strong look for a mousegun carry; that way goals can be set, achieved and verified. If not handloads, I'd defienitely go S&B or Fiocchi ball ammo for .380 and below IMO

Special care has to be taken with the P32 and other .32ACP autoloaders, as the OAL can cause or prevent rimlock, depending. This is one area I did a lot of research in with the P32 mecgar magazines, Fiocchi .32ACP matches the P32 mags OAL perfectly, I've never had rimlock with Fiocchi (or S&B now that I think about it).

zombieslayer
May 24, 2011, 01:18 PM
I've never had "rimlock" with a 32, or any rimmed cartridge. But I've never shot any 32acp reloads.

Tom Servo
May 24, 2011, 01:21 PM
Good lord, people. The guy asked a simple question:

the wife wants a .25 cal and I'm looking at a bauer with pearl grips for about a 100 bucks does this sound like a good deal
The answer to his question is "yes." The Bauer is a neat little pistol, and that's a great price on it, if condition is good. Not every gun is purchased or owned for the purpose of fighting hordes of Sumatran Death Ninjas.

Seriously, a 25 acp is about as effective as a 22 LR.
Actually, between the two, I'd choose a .25 if the gun were to be for self-defense. The .25 is a centerfire cartridge, and will therefore be more reliable than .22.

Seaman
May 24, 2011, 07:27 PM
Yo Sonick808,

Totally forgot about rimlock. Duh. Since I’ve shot a lot of 25 ACP, and like the 32 ACP is a semi-rimmed cartridge, which means that rimlock can occur (if the cartridges aren’t aligned in an overlapping cascade). I did encounter it with older 25 cal pistols several times and the simple tap-rack-boom drill didn’t always work. I have not experienced it in my (bought new) Colt 25. Also totally forgot about Bauer, it was made right here in Michigan, was considered a decent Baby Browning copy. Its weaknesses were the mags and it is best to get a Browning mag. Also I would not carry hot chamber as I do not trust the safety.

On second thought, if my wife wanted a Bauer, I might consider buying one as a collector, but would advise my wife to go with a .380 for carry (i.e. Sig P238) yah they cost more, but rimless .380 does not suffer rimlock and the P238 is a reasonably soft shooter.