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TSmidnightrider
May 18, 2011, 08:06 PM
New member here, so please speak english.

I've had an ak, and a .308 hunting rifle in the past. Only liked the ak due to the scare it caused and the punch it packed, but accuracy wasn't there.

I'm looking into getting an AR-10 and -15, but am looking for a little advice first. For the AR-10, I'm looking for long range, consistent accuracy.

What in your opinion is the most affordable and reliable .308.
How long of a barrel, type of scope, grain of round should I be shooting with to hit over 500 yards over and over again, and maybe the occasional 1,000 yd shot?

for the ar15, I probably wouldnt ask it to hit over 200 yards, and would like a good tactical sight. what are the differences i would notice in barrel size?

are DPMS rifles worth having, just as a starter rifle, if you will?

Glenn E. Meyer
May 18, 2011, 08:13 PM
Rifle forum more appropriate, so moved.

Glenn

chasep255
May 18, 2011, 08:21 PM
Get a DPMS LR-308. Get the 20'' or 24'' barrel with the free float hand guard. For the AR you should get a 16'' carbine if you are staying within 200 yards.

RedNeckWino
May 18, 2011, 08:44 PM
I will say +1 on the 20-24" barrel. I use 24" on both. My AR 15 has a 24" bull in stainless steel Douglas barrel. Search my posts to see targets. My .308 is a bolt action Savage 10fp 1st edition Factory bull barrel 24" and does 1000yrds. This is NOT to say AR 10 in .308 will not do it. I prefer bolt guns for long range for my own use. But am drooling on an AR10. Looking at Armalite or Bushmaster for my build. Price and personal pref.

As for brand of AR 10 or 15, Would not say brand has as much to do as a GOOD quality barrel and bolt/carrier group combined with a quality trigger group. I topped my AR 15 with a $180.00 3.5-10x50 brand-x scope and is very accurate out to 500yrds. Less than 1/2 MOA. (I also have much time, training and practice at long range.)

Jim243
May 19, 2011, 01:39 AM
What in your opinion is the most affordable and reliable .308.

DPMS


How long of a barrel, type of scope, grain of round should I be shooting with to hit over 500 yards over and over again, and maybe the occasional 1,000 yd shot?


I believe it only comes in a 20 inch barrel.

occasional 1,000 yd shot

Yah right, and I am going to win the lottery tomorrow.

Jim

RockyMtnTactical
May 19, 2011, 02:49 AM
What are you gonna use the rifle for?

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 06:36 AM
For .308 there are plenty of really good hunting rifles in that caliber. I don't know why you'd be loking to shoot 308 out of an AR type rifle.

If you want your 308 to be "tactical" why not use the rifle that the Army and Marines are currently using?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_14_Mod_0_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Enhanced_Marksman_Rifle

The marines are using the match-grade M118LR 175-grain Long Range ammunition. I'm sure you can find the civilian equivilant.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70431&stc=1&d=1305806348


You can get the basic rifle, several variants of it at Springfield Armory's site:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=20

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=69780&d=1304053990

The Springfield M14 / M21 have been in service for decades and more importantly - they are in service today:


Springfield M1A or variant. The right caliber and the right platform.

This is a proven hunting round used by many hunters for all sorts of different game. More than capable of taking deer, hogs, and performing in anti-varmint roles killing coyotes, woodchucks etc...

A proven battle rifle that serves the U.S. Military well.

"Although the M14 was phased out as the standard-issue rifle by 1970, M14 variants are still used by various branches of the U.S. Military as well as other armed forces, especially as a sniper rifle and as a designated marksman rifle, due to its excellent accuracy and effectiveness at long range. Special active units such as the OPFOR units of the Joint Readiness Training Center use M14s. Few M14s were in use in the Army until the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. Since the start of these conflicts, many M14s have been employed as designated marksman and sniper rifles. These are not M21 rifles, but original production M14s"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle

The M21 variant - a proven sniper rifle used by Carlos Hatchcock - arguably the greatest sniper in history.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hathcock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M21_Sniper_Weapon_System

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM25_Sniper_Rifle

Article on the M14's renewed usage in the military:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/m14-enhanced-battle-rifle/

madcratebuilder
May 19, 2011, 06:49 AM
What in your opinion is the most affordable and reliable .308.
How long of a barrel, type of scope, grain of round should I be shooting with to hit over 500 yards over and over again, and maybe the occasional 1,000 yd shot?

The DPMS LR-308 is the cheapest and you can achieve reasonable accuracy with them. Noveske is one of the most accurate and reliable. You may want to handle these big AR's before you buy one. They are pretty heavy in 21 and longer barrels. A 16" well shoot to 500 yds with out much problem. Asking any 7.62 to shoot 1000yds is pushing it. You well need a lot of velocity to stay super sonic at that range. I have a 21" Noveske/ArmaLite SASS clone, it's a tack driver but on the heavy side. With optics and pods it's 14lbs+ loaded.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR10/AR10noveske01.jpg

You may be able to satisfy your needs with just one rifle. An AR15 in 6.5 Grendel, 18" well get you to 800yds without much problem and is still light enough for carry. With Wolf making ammo for the 6.5 it has become much more affordable to shoot. I have a 24" Grendel and I'm going to build a 16" version, amazing accuracy with this round.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/65Grendel/Aarms01.jpg

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 07:19 AM
There are stories of 1000 yard kills with the M21. 1000 yards is pusing it for the 7.62 round, but depending on the conditions and your target it can and has been done. I don't know of any AR platform that is going to do that... it's just not designed for it.

If you are talking about an AR type action and not just an "AR looking" rifle - the Eugene Stoner action was never meant for long range accuracy like that. I know there are AR15-only tournements that have some very accurate AR15 rifles in them, but generally speaking, the action on an AR15 would make a sniper cringe.

There is a reason that neither the U.S. Army nor U.S. Marines use a modified M16 rifle for their snipers. It's because the M16 platform has limitations that make it unsuitable for engaging targets long range - 800+ meters.

I guess I have to eat my words here - the M110 SASS is the winner of th 2005 competition to be the issue sniper system going forward and it is built on the AR platform. - Me

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 08:18 AM
The other sniper rifle - adopted in 1988 is the M24 which is now being converted to the XM2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System


http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70434&stc=1&d=1305811899


If you really have your heart set on an AR-type 7.62 long range type rifle then maybe the best bet is the Knights Armament AR - which is the M110:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70433&stc=1&d=1305810981


.

Jimro
May 19, 2011, 08:21 AM
CountZero,

Unless you are really an M14 fanboy you should know that the SR-25 aka the M110 is a 308 AR currently in service with the Army and Marine Corps.

Jimro

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 09:03 AM
I put a picture of the M110 SASS above. It won the competition in 2005.

Despite that, the Navy Seals chose the Springfield Armory platform, and the M14s have been pressed back into service.

I don't exactly know whats going on - maybe they can't make enough M110 rifles, or what, but both the Marine Corps and the U.S Army has pressed the M14 back into service in Afghanistan (EBR) and they are still using the M21.

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 09:19 AM
Since the Navy SEALs are so fond of the M14 / M21 and they don't seem to like the M110 SASS, I wonder what Bin Laden got wacked with... it would be interesting to know...

I sorta think it was a 5.56 round though - they seemed more ready to do room by room clearning, and less of sniper mission.

glockcompact
May 19, 2011, 09:22 AM
Checkout the 6.5 grendel. It's a great little cartridge and I love it. It may just fit your needs. You can have two AR-15's (one for long rang and one for short range) with one cartridge.

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 09:33 AM
Just another opinion, I wouldn't waste money on a "starter" rifle. I think eventually you will be unhappy with it, then you will want to trade it or sell it and then you will be unhappy with how little trade in or resell value it has. You don't want to be unhappy do you?

You want to be happy :)

If you look at how much these so-called "starter" rifles cost - they are a good chunk of change. After you've lost money on a sale or trade, you'll wish you had just put that money toward a quality rifle that you would have kept.

A quality rifle that can produce tight groups at 500m can do the same closer in...

Someone on this forum has this quote in their signature:

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." -John Ruskin

C0untZer0
May 19, 2011, 09:38 AM
Here is some more on the M110:

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/usa/mk11-mod0-m110-sr-25-e.html

It was used by the Navy SEALs for a time as the Mark 11 Model 0 sniper rifle system.

http://www.sniperinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336

PRONE2
May 19, 2011, 01:20 PM
Nice pics! made my day just looing at all the 308 eye candy!!

HiBC
May 20, 2011, 07:27 AM
Think about how much you want it to weigh.I have experience with the Armalite Ar-10 T and a DPMS LR 308L.
The DPMS costs less,and uses the cheaper,more common SR-25 mag.It has a light contour free floated bbl,18 in,and weighs 7.9 lbs.
The AR-10 Ts came with 24 in 1 in 10 Badger bbls.Both were cut back to 20 in.They are better to hold offhand with a 20 in bbl.Armalite has used other twists and bbl mfgs since.I'm not sure what is available now.You may want a 1 in 10 for 175's and longer ranges.