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View Full Version : THoughts on switching ammo for summer / winter


C0untZer0
May 4, 2011, 11:29 AM
I was thinking about the advantages of using differnt ammo in different seasons.

I know there are a lot of people who carry different caliber guns depending on how they dress and a winter coat obviously makes it easier to carry a bigger gun.

But that's not my question.

Given only one gun / one caliber, and given that the different ammo feeds well in your gun, I think it makes sense to use ammo in the winter that does best on 4 denim gel tests and use ammo in the summer that does best in bare gel.

Just wondering what other people's thoughts are on this.

Murrdock
May 4, 2011, 11:48 AM
In WWII they were concerned that if the fight had lasted into winter on the Japanese mainland that the .30 m1 carbine round wouldn't be able to penetrate deep enough into heavy winter clothing.

A .30 carbine round has about 1,000 ft/lbs of energy whereas a .45 acp has what, about 500 ft/lbs.

Just some food for thought...

Glenn E. Meyer
May 4, 2011, 12:13 PM
Live in South TX - you won't have to worry about this 'myth' called winter.

chadstrickland
May 4, 2011, 01:11 PM
Lol+1 to above post...and you should check out hornady critical defense ..they claim it works with heavy clothing and bare chest lol :)...lil more food for thought :)

FireForged
May 4, 2011, 01:14 PM
In WWII they were concerned that if the fight had lasted into winter on the Japanese mainland that the .30 m1 carbine round wouldn't be able to penetrate deep enough into heavy winter clothing.

A .30 carbine round has about 1,000 ft/lbs of energy whereas a .45 acp has what, about 500 ft/lbs.

Just some food for thought...


...yes but it is probably a opinion based on the actual expected range to target. Consider the energy of a 30carbine at 150-300 yards as compared to a 45cal handgun round at 25feet. That is a little different.

Don P
May 4, 2011, 01:42 PM
Guess it goes along with changing out the air in our tires from winter air to summer air:rolleyes:

Murrdock
May 4, 2011, 01:43 PM
Didn't say there was any merit to it, just pointing something out.

I'm sure theres not many things outside of body armor that someone would wear that will stop anything above a .22lr at point blank...

markj
May 4, 2011, 01:51 PM
FMJ works for all seasons :)

Sleuth
May 4, 2011, 03:06 PM
Don't overthink this - pick the ammo you want, and carry it.

When you can always hit where you want, under all weather conditions, no matter how you feel, with "blazing speed and amazing accuracy", then you can worry about different ammo for sunny days, windy days, rainy days, etc.

MikeNice81
May 5, 2011, 07:56 AM
In any major service caliber I would just stick with Federal HST. I know a police department that has used it effectively at 100 degrees and at sub freezing.

To me, the idea of changing ammo only really matters for the furthest north reaches of the US or places with similar weather. If you have to worry about a wool coat over a thick coat over a sweater over a t-shirt over a thermal shirt, you might need to consider a FMJ for the worst days. Other wise HST, Winchester Bonded, Winchester PDX-1, and Speer Gold Dot should do fine 365 days a year.

Buzzcook
May 5, 2011, 12:09 PM
.30 M1 carbine did fine in European winters.

Sleuth
May 5, 2011, 12:26 PM
Buzzcook, I must disagree. The Marines in the South Pacific like the carbine for it's handy size and light weight, but it failed often to stop their enemies (with ball ammo). There is also evidence that many troops in the ETO abandoned their carbines for the M1 Rifle after engaging the enemy.

But one of this matters until the OP can meet the criteria in my earlier post.

BGutzman
May 5, 2011, 01:01 PM
Corbon DPX or Gold Dots - whatever the season whatever the reason, mighty hard to go wrong with.


Also if you need more power see our friend WildAlaska to get the details on purchasing a 460 barrel (Rowland) or possibly even a entire Rowland gun package...

The 460 loaded to its potential is in the 44 magnum class... My Springfield XD totals 13+1 rounds of 44 mag power in a semiauto.

aarondhgraham
May 5, 2011, 02:22 PM
There is also evidence that many troops in the ETO abandoned their carbines for the M1 Rifle after engaging the enemy.

He was in the Korean Conflict,,,
He originally wanted it so he could carry more ammo,,,
But after a while he traded it off to someone for their M-1 Garand.

His story was that it was not a man stopper.

Don't get me wrong,,,
I loved owning and shooting my carbine,,,
But as a battle rifle I feel it was designed around a punk cartridge.

Aarond

Sleuth
May 5, 2011, 04:08 PM
I met a Marine who was on Tarawa. He was qualified Expert with all USMC small arms. He said he was charged by a Japanese Special Naval Forces (Marine) with a rifle and bayonet on the pier. He put 15 rounds from neck to belt, every one a hit, and the Jap ran past him (now carrying an artillery howitzer with a wheat scythe on the end of it. He used his carbine to knock him off the pier.

He then carried one of the squads' belt fed machineguns until he was hit later in the day.

Anecdotes, to be sure - but when you read military history (as I do), you read over and over of the dissatisfaction with the M1 carbine round in WWII & Korea.

MikeNice81
May 6, 2011, 02:52 AM
The M1 Carbine was designed to be a light weapon for support staff and rear echelon troops. The fact that it got pressed in to duty as a main line gun was a mistake on Uncle Sam's part.

The gun delivers more force than even the hottest factory .357 loads. People keep telling me how great their .357 mag is for stopping people. Yet they scoff at the M1 Carbine. :rolleyes: An M1 Carbine delivers the projectile with nearly 1,000ft/lbs of force. The .357 magnum is pushing 774ftlbs of force at it's extreme.

Is it the best choice in the world? I don't think so. However, it still put many men in their grave. I would love to use soft points or hollow points but I wouldn't discount it with ball ammo either.

ClydeFrog
May 11, 2011, 12:45 AM
The late David Hackworth(US Army/O-6 retired) told of combat events in Korea where young troops were wounded 3 or 4 times and kept fighting hard.

Depending on the firearm & caliber, some JHPs or ammunition may work better than others. IMO, the .45acp was selected by many state/local
agencies in places like ID, New England(ME, NH, etc), Montana because of the solid performance in extreme cold weather.
When I lived in western PA in the 1990s, I used a 165gr JHP in .40, but also had the lighter/faster 135gr loads(Triton or CorBon) for spring-summer months. The .40S&W 165gr round could be used year round but I liked the concept of a slightly higher KE level & vel in the summer.
I've said too that if I were a working LE officer or federal agent with open choices, I'd carry a .45acp pistol & maybe a .44spl DA revolver as a BUG(2nd gun) in the winter.
In the fall or summer I'd use a .357sig pistol or a .40/10mm.

bikerbill
May 14, 2011, 10:07 AM
+1 Glenn Meyer ... in Texas there are two seasons, Summer and Christmas ... I'm not concerned with penetrating 17 layers of winter gear; the heaviest stuff people wear around here is a down vest and a long-sleeve shirt ... my EDC is a 9mm and I use Hornady Critical Defense all year round ...

Glenn E. Meyer
May 14, 2011, 06:53 PM
Summer, Summer, Summer, Hunting Season.

I've broken out my heavy NE jacket once in about 17 years and by afternoon didn't need it.

Boatme98
May 14, 2011, 07:19 PM
Guess it goes along with changing out the air in our tires from winter air to summer air

I don't do this. I do change the air in my tires when I travel to different regions of the country. Tenn. air will lose pressure at sea level while conversly increase pressure at higher altitudes. And besides, if your going down to the coast, the sea air in the tires smells nice.

9mm
May 14, 2011, 07:43 PM
they claim it works with heavy clothing and bare chest lol

Bullets go through you unless you have Body armor designed for a caliber defence. I highly doubt a few layers of heavy jackets can stop a bullet, its just leather/fluff, it isnt kevlar. Any gun is going to kill, it's all about placement shots. Look at the wars, people were hit and kept fighting in some cases.

Want some stopping power? get a S&W 500 :eek::rolleyes::D


BTT, you should swap ammo once every 6~12 months. I have no idea how this topic on handgun ammo got to rifle ammo, thats not what the OP is talking about, he is talking about SD carrying. Not carrying a rifle :rolleyes:;)

C0untZer0
May 14, 2011, 08:29 PM
Do they make a S&W 500 in 9mm ?

9mm
May 14, 2011, 08:37 PM
No lol!!! a S&W 500 is a very powerful handgun and it shoots the S&W 500 caliber?

Look at picture.

S&W 500 is not a carrying gun. It's for hunting, unless you wanted to carry that monster... Good luck, and if you had to use it in SD I think the Judge would be hard on you.


If you are so fixed on "stopping power" get a 10mm or 44mag.

C0untZer0
May 14, 2011, 09:13 PM
You say it's not a carrying gun?

I'm sure in some states it is, along with other stuff like the 14" barreled 460XVR

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70294&stc=1&d=1305425608


http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_785511_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

.

C0untZer0
May 14, 2011, 10:46 PM
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70297&stc=1&d=1305431185

But being as this is a .500 S&W Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your hand clean off, if you were using a Taurus, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?


.

ranburr
May 15, 2011, 12:37 AM
No point in changing ammo. If your hollow point gets clogged and fails to expand, it will function the same as ball. I just carry the heaviest Hp round that I can.