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XxJNUGExX
May 3, 2011, 10:58 AM
Hi in my employee manual it says that firearms are not permited on the property of my place of employment. Does this include the parking lot? and if so how would I be able to carry to and from work?

Thanks,

Josh

kazanski612
May 3, 2011, 11:01 AM
Only you can answer that. Read all your company policies. My company explicitly forbids firearms on all company property, including the parking lot. And I don't live in OK or WY or elsewhere that they have state laws allowing firearms in your car in the parking lot.

Would they know? Probably not. But that's a pretty big gamble. Risk vs. Reward. Your call.

mikejonestkd
May 3, 2011, 11:05 AM
Hi in my employee manual it says that firearms are not permited on the property of my place of employment.

You answered your own question, if they own the parking lot then you can not posses a firearm in your vehicle. However, there are a few states that have recently passed laws that allow people to have firearms in their car during work, we need to know what state you are in.

If you are caught you will likely have problems with your employment status.

XxJNUGExX
May 3, 2011, 11:06 AM
I am from Michigan

Northern Gal
May 3, 2011, 11:07 AM
If it says that firearms are not allowed on company property, I would assume that would include the parking lot, however, you should probably check w/ the HR department to clarify that. If your company is small and doesn't have an HR department, talk to whoever hired you to find out.

In a larger company, trying to get that policy changed is probably pointless - they aren't going to listen to the concerns of one individual. However, if the company is on the smaller side, it might be possible to make them listen to your concerns and possibly allow firearms in the locked vehicle. It could be that no one has ever brought up that point before, and they might be willing to take a look at that, if you present you thoughts in a logical and convincing manner.

XxJNUGExX
May 3, 2011, 11:07 AM
And if thats the case it's kind of rediculus really defeats the purpose of having it because thats where I go EVERY day.

Coyote WT
May 3, 2011, 11:10 AM
I just checked my own company policy today for that same reason. My policy says no guns even in personal cars in the parking lot BUT they do make very limited and specific exceptions. I have my supervisor looking into that now.

Washington is an open carry state and I have a CPL which I think will be a big factor in getting an exemption.

Of course none of this applies to your company (unless you work for the same one I do) so do your due diligence and research company, local and state rules/laws before hanging yourself out to dry.

Coyote WT

AndABeer
May 3, 2011, 12:32 PM
Company policy for me includes the parking lot. But when deer season (gun) rolls around, and there are half a dozen trucks pulling four wheelers on trailers in the lot, try telling me there are no firearms in those vehicles and then sell me some leprechan gold. ;)

Crazy88Fingers
May 3, 2011, 12:40 PM
In Florida there is a law that clearly states a company cannot forbid its employees from legally keeping a weapon in there vehicles in the parking lot, whether or not the parking lot is company property. Of course there are still companies that try to ban it.

State Law > Company Policy


Check your state laws. Try a site like www.handgunlaw.us

irish52084
May 3, 2011, 12:45 PM
I can't carry or leave a gun in my car at work or on their property. I found the easiest way around this was to park off the company lot. I can keep my pistol in my car while I work and don't have to worry about my job.

Doesn't do me much good as far as defending myself at work, but my company will never allow it. I wish they would let us carry, we have to collect checks and carry truck loads of valuable shipments. People have been known to follow us from stop to stop, just to steal packages we deliver. Most of the time they don't know what they're stealing and it's completely worthless to them. But nobody said thieves were brilliant.

XxJNUGExX
May 3, 2011, 12:52 PM
I agree and just found my manual. heres the exact words from it. (*company name* prohibits all persons from bringing or having a weapon of any kind on company property, including parking areas. where state law differes from this policy, the company will enforce this ban on weapons to the fullest extent permitted by applicable state laws."

So I guess my real question now does michigan allow it in the parking lot? I personally can't find it. If some one else can let me know!

solidgun
May 3, 2011, 02:09 PM
This really is a personal question as long as it isn't violating any local/state/federal laws. How important is your job and how important is defending yourself when needed.

I have moved to deeper concealment and practice regularly to be proficient in drawing from layers of cover. Proper firearm/holster combination can do wonders when you don't want other people to know.

BarryLee
May 3, 2011, 02:38 PM
This is a difficult issue for me. I once worked for major manufacture as the Safety & Security Manager it was my job to enforce this policy. As a firearms owner I wanted to carry in my vehicle, but because of personal integrity felt I could not. I felt bad telling employees they could not have a firearm in their vehicle to defend themselves with while traveling to and from work.

However, on the flip side as a company manager I felt the company had a right to decide what type of activity it would allow on property that it owned. These policies were clear and expressed to employees immediately upon hire.

The best answer to this is legislation allowing permit holders to keep weapons in their vehicles. A Policy like this would free companies up from what they fear most – litigation. This would have made my job easier and helped me feel much less conflicted.

Deja vu
May 3, 2011, 02:43 PM
I am glad that my work place has no such rules. I carry every day to work. There is a rule against displaying a fire arm so open carry is out as is showing your friends your gun (which is not the smartest idea at work any way).

Yung.gunr
May 3, 2011, 02:52 PM
My employer prohibits guns as well. I am not sure about the parking lot, but they don't have any right to search my car so what they don't know wont hurt them. I keep it locked up under the seat when I leave the car. It's completely ridiculous I feel, but they sign my checks so.....

Glockfan35
May 3, 2011, 03:17 PM
My employer has a policy prohibiting deadly weapons, but I can keep my guns locked up in my vehicle as I have a CCDW permit. Upon arriving at work, I discreetly disarm myself and secure my weapon in a locked glove compartment. When my shift ends I simply rearm myself and happily go my merry way. Before I had the permit, carrying everyday was a pain, as I had to open carry all the time. I DID NOT ENJOY THIS.

PanBaccha
May 3, 2011, 03:20 PM
Working for the airlines is simply a no-no situation with firearms on property, of course. But what I do each time I park at employee's parking lot is place firearm in the Nanovault safe beneath my seat, and lock it.

http://www.amazon.com/GunVault-NV200-NanoVault-Style-Pistols/dp/B00384755S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1304453889&sr=8-3

GregInAtl
May 3, 2011, 03:39 PM
And if thats the case it's kind of rediculus really defeats the purpose of having it because thats where I go EVERY day.

I know what you mean. I often leave mine at home because I am afraid where I am going won't allow firearms and it's less hassle to leave it at home and take my chances than be limited where I can go when I'm out.

A few weeks ago, my wife and I went to a professional sporting event near a major city where we live. I left my gun at home because I knew I would not be permitted to take it in with us. When we were walking back to the car, I noticed about 3 young questionable looking youths loitering in an area of the parking lot where we were headed. The lighting was very limited and it was later in the evening. We went the othe directions even though it was out of our way. Not sure what would have happened if we had kept walking the direction we were originally headed. The was no security provided in the parking lot that I could see.

I personally feel that if professional sports teams are going to prohibit bringing firearms into the stadium/venue, then they should at least provide adequate security for their patrons.

zxcvbob
May 3, 2011, 03:55 PM
My company does not allow guns on the property, but state law prevents them from enforcing that rule if the guns are legally stored in a vehicle in the parking lot. Several other states have that law too (I think Oklahoma was the first) so check your state firearm regs for the answer.

Dwight55
May 3, 2011, 04:12 PM
For a number of years, I took the chance that my weapon would not be looked upon as "wrong" although technically, the wording of the booklet from HR did not specifically allow me to carry a weapon onto company property.

I was fully prepared to be the test case in Ohio if it came to that, . . . my vehicle is exactly that: MY vehicle, . . . not the company's property, . . . and not subject to company policy any more than the contents of my stomach or my large intestine.

Fortunately, there never was a reason for the subject to become a point of contention, . . . but I'd do it again in a heartbeat, . . . my safety and my family's safety trumps ANY corporate edict.

May God bless,
Dwight

lawnboy
May 3, 2011, 04:30 PM
In my state the answer would be no, you can't keep a weapon in your car if the company owns, leases, or otherwise operates the lot/garage if the employer says you can't. State law regarding firearms doesn't override private regulations on private property.

I've confirmed this in my state with legal advice. Your state may differ. A cheap lawyer will answer this simple question for you for $100

Or you can go with the law of averages. If your company is large and employs lawyers of its own you can probably be assured that they've already determined whether they have control of the parking lot. So just ask HR and believe what they say. They could be conning you, but not likely.

golfnutrlv
May 3, 2011, 04:38 PM
Sorry to jack the thread, but to those in Washington state...I know our gun laws pretty well, and I do not believe we have an in car protection law. If someone knows otherwise please let me know.

I just got a new job, and the manual says i cannot have a gun in the building etc etc. I'm really P.O.'d about it, seems my employer wants me to be in danger, and unable to protect myself and keep doing my job!!

Oh well, have two weeks to think about it before I start. It just kills me that I have to make a choice between my job, and my safety!!

kazanski612
May 3, 2011, 04:45 PM
Just remember that HR exists not to protect you but to protect the company from the likes of you. File that one away.

zxcvbob
May 3, 2011, 05:02 PM
What happened to this bill?

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=5195

Michigan: Parking Lot Legislation Headed to the House Floor!

Friday, October 30, 2009

On Tuesday, October 27 the House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources Committee approved House Bill 5302 and House Bill 5303 by a 9 to 1 vote.

HB5302, introduced by State Representative Paul Opsommer (R-93), and HB5303, introduced by State Representative Joel Sheltrown (D-103), would prohibit employers from firing employees who safely and lawfully store their firearms in locked vehicles while at work. The bill now moves to the full Michigan House of Representatives where a vote may be taken any day.

Standing Wolf
May 3, 2011, 08:46 PM
...my safety and my family's safety trumps ANY corporate edict.

Yep. Jobs are a lot easier to replace than lost lives.

Daekar
May 3, 2011, 09:14 PM
I know several people who carry concealed to work even though it's against the rules. I think the rationale is that they're unlikely to be caught, and if they have to use the gun it will be worth losing the job.

MrWesson
May 3, 2011, 09:25 PM
Carry deep and risk your job or dont carry

Your choice

Mobuck
May 3, 2011, 09:25 PM
I used to work for a "no guns" agency but the building lease only included 6' of ground outside the walls. I parked on the outside of that 6' and left my piece in my vehicle. It was less than 15 long steps from my desk to the door of my Jeep.

Dr. Strangelove
May 3, 2011, 09:46 PM
Do what you think is right and don't talk about it with HR or any fellow employees.

Unless I worked for a government agency, an employer will not tell me what I can and can't have in my private vehicle, and no one except law enforcement with a warrant is going to search my vehicle.

Andy Taylor
May 4, 2011, 02:22 AM
Do not ask HR. Talk to the wrong person on this issue and you will lose your job, just for bringing it up. Oh, it won't be put that way, and it may take a few months. But believe me, if they decide they don't want you around, they will find a way to rid themselves of you and your guns.

Assuming you do not work for .gov or a defense contractor etc. I would simply leave it in the car, very discretly. Off company property if available. Or carry, even more discretely, like thunderwear discrete. My life is worth more than any job.

That said for the past 15 years or so my employers have all been very pro gun. In fact a lot of the time I was paid to carry a gun. I am not paid to carry a gun now, but my employer is very gun friendly. We often discuss guns, holster, the latest carry gear etc.

outdoor
May 4, 2011, 08:49 AM
This is why I should own my own company.

GregInAtl
May 4, 2011, 09:35 AM
As far as risking my job over my personal safety, I guess it would depend on how unsafe I felt at work without my gun if I were prohibited from having it in in my posession or in my car. If state law entitles my employer to prohibit me from having a gun in my car in the parking lot and I felt fairly safe walking from the office to my car, I probably would not risk losing my job by defying their rules. On the other hand, if I felt I was taking a lot of risk by not having my gun in the car, I wouild probably do it anyway figuring if I had to use it, it was probably worth losing a job over.

Lets face it, even if you are allowed to have a gun at work, if you ever have to use it and using it is justified, they are probably going to find a way to get rid of you anyway.

kazanski612
May 4, 2011, 10:07 AM
As far as risking my job over my personal safety, I guess it would depend on how unsafe I felt at work without my gun if I were prohibited from having it in in my posession or in my car. If state law entitles my employer to prohibit me from having a gun in my car in the parking lot and I felt fairly safe walking from the office to my car, I probably would not risk losing my job by defying their rules. On the other hand, if I felt I was taking a lot of risk by not having my gun in the car, I wouild probably do it anyway figuring if I had to use it, it was probably worth losing a job over.

Lets face it, even if you are allowed to have a gun at work, if you ever have to use it and using it is justified, they are probably going to find a way to get rid of you anyway.
My issue is not with having to use it, it's the risk of what if you are NOT using it and somehow someone finds out. For some of us, losing your job would be a significant blow. Risk vs. reward, like so many decisions in life.

Constantine
May 5, 2011, 11:12 AM
Crazy88Fingers In Florida there is a law that clearly states a company cannot forbid its employees from legally keeping a weapon in there vehicles in the parking lot, whether or not the parking lot is company property. Of course there are still companies that try to ban it.

State Law > Company Policy


Check your state laws. Try a site like www.handgunlaw.us

That's a personal buddy of mine right there ^^^^^

Look through threads started by me, you'll see about everything I got covered. It was a very long thread. Thank God I'm in Florida "take your gun to work" state.

XxJNUGExX
May 5, 2011, 12:48 PM
Well they don't make it easy I'm looking at the Michigan firearms law on the Michigan.gov webpage and the PDF is from 2009 so either it's not updated or they haven't changed anything.

chadstrickland
May 5, 2011, 12:58 PM
My place of work is kinda weird/shady..nothing in the manual that says you cannot carry and doesn't designate this place as a safety zone however hhe personally said that he doesn't want guns carried at work..its ok to have them in trucks or even bring one inside to give to someone or somthing

Uprangewilly
May 5, 2011, 01:11 PM
So if you work for the federal government, is there a federal law that restricts an employee from carrying a weapon on to the property. Or is just their "policy".

We have armed guards in our building so I dont feel unsafe, i would like to be able to keep a gun in my vehicle though.

carprivershooter
May 5, 2011, 03:33 PM
This is what I found.

Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:


Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

Sports arena or stadium

A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

A hospital

A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

A Casino


"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above.



A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CPL holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The pistol is only subject to seizure if the holder is carrying it concealed. The following penalties may also be imposed:


First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CPL permit suspended 6 months
Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CPL permit revoked
Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CPL permit revoked

Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:

"Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy."

dnr1128
May 5, 2011, 04:00 PM
Don't ask, don't tell.

I can get another job; my children can't get another daddy.

dodgensince74
May 5, 2011, 06:10 PM
If your not allowed to carry at work then don't carry, don't listen to those that say to go ahead and carry, cause if you get caught and fired that you could always find a new job. Those that say that aren't going to pay your bills between jobs and who's to say that getting caught carring at work while knowing you weren't allowed too will not follow you around on your job hunt. I am sure that where ever you apply for a job that they are going to want to know why you were let go at your current job. What are you going to tell them when they ask, that the guys on a forum said to go ahead and carry cause the no carry rules are a bunch of bull:rolleyes:? JMO

XxJNUGExX
May 5, 2011, 10:58 PM
Yes I agree totaly. I can't afford to lose my job especially now days where jobs aren't as easy to come around.

moose_nukelz
May 5, 2011, 11:23 PM
So if you work for the federal government, is there a federal law that restricts an employee from carrying a weapon on to the property. Or is just their "policy".

US Code title 18 section 930

Constantine
May 5, 2011, 11:35 PM
US Code title 18 section 930


And that isssssss?

Doc Intrepid
May 6, 2011, 12:38 AM
You could try parking your vehicle off your company premises, depending on where the building you work in is located. There may be another lot nearby that you could use, and then just walk a block or so to your building.

You might want to take a look at something like one of these:
http://consolevault.com/

Even if you leave the firearm locked in your vehicle, putting it in a gunvault inside your vehicle adds a bit more delay and protection against a thief who might just smash your window and rummage around in your vehicle.

It also bears noting that company policy is not the same thing as state law. According to handgunlawus, it is legal to have the firearm in a vehicle in a parking lot - e.g. it is not a named prohibited location. But it is against company policy. Realistically that policy is in place to reduce company liability. The likelihood that the company is going to search your vehicle is slim (unless you're stealing office supplies or making other unwise choices!) The point is that doing something against company policy is not necessarily doing something against the law.

;)

Sevenfaces
May 6, 2011, 02:38 AM
check your state laws. here in FL you can keep a gun locked in your vehicle at work regardless of what your employer says, without needing a CCW. I still suggest getting a CCW if at all possible.

Uprangewilly
May 6, 2011, 07:27 AM
Here is part of Sec. 930

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to - (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law; (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Now after reading number three it sounds like you can have a firearm in federal facility if it is "incident" to hunting. So does that mean I can have a shotgun in my vehicle in a federal facility and say its for hunting after/before work?

Where I work, which is a federal facility, we have a parking garage for the first few floors of our building. So when I park there it is a federal facility. I have the option to park about half a block away in another parking garage owned by the county.

So are my options A) Have a shotgun in my vehicle and park in either lot? or B) Have a handgun that I carry and leave it in my car parked at the county garage? or C) Can't "legally" do either one?

treg
May 8, 2011, 10:10 PM
Don't ask, don't tell. You can be sure they don't tell you everything!

If the company (not defense, .gov, nuclear, etc.) were to search and make a find the searcher would be in possesion of a stolen firearm.

kalevatom
May 9, 2011, 08:17 AM
In Michigan, an employer can prohibit firearms on any company property. It is considered "private property". Most likely you signed a "Terms of employment" when you hire in. You risk losing you job and putting your CPL in jeaprody. A bill was introduced several years ago to permit this, but it didn't go anywhere. I've been looking for it. Remember, a companies stance will always be: "We encourage all employees to exercise their constitutional rights, you just can't do it on company property. We have the right to fire you". And they do.:eek:

oneounceload
May 9, 2011, 09:12 AM
and no one except law enforcement with a warrant is going to search my vehicle.

Not necessarily so. While here in FL you can take a gun to work and leave it in your car for MOST employers, there mare exceptions, and, if your employee manual that you sign, says the company has the right to search your vehicle, then you have consented. One work place in particular that I know of is a nuclear power plant. NO guns in the vehicle, vehicles and individuals are subject to search. Thank Homeland Security for a lot of it

WARRIOR I
May 9, 2011, 11:05 AM
MrWesson, Dr.Strangelove, dnr1128; I stand with you. Personal security is
your responsibility. Tell anyone about it and it becomes neither. Personally,
I 'dressed appropriately' for work EVERY DAY for the last seven years before
I retired, after two of my colleagues were assaulted by students. (I've never
believed in the three strikes rule-strike three might just be you.).

Maverick1950
June 4, 2011, 04:52 PM
In Michigan, an employer can prohibit firearms on any company property. It is considered "private property". Most likely you signed a "Terms of employment" when you hire in. You risk losing you job and putting your CPL in jeaprody.

It is true that an employer can prohibit firearms on company property (whether or not you signed a form acknowledging that power when you were hired). Therefore, you risk your job by violating the employer's rule. You do not thereby put your CPL in jeopardy, however, as violating your employer's rules is not a crime.

WolfMacabre
June 4, 2011, 05:14 PM
My company policy says we're not allowed to have guns on company property, but as far as I'm concerned my car is MY personal property so my guns are perfectly fine to be in there. If they have an issue with my rights I don't mind leaving them. I'm in pennsylvania, not sure if there are laws that say I can anyways.

Webleymkv
June 4, 2011, 05:28 PM
It depends on not only the state in which you work, but also the individual company policy. The company that I work for has a "no weapons" policy which extends to their parking lots. There is a grey area, however, as the policy specifically states that parking lots may be different when they are not owned by the company (many of our locations including the one I work at are leased rather than owned), although "no weapons in the building" is pretty much universal. It is no longer an issue for me, however, because Indiana now has a parking lot law similar to others already mentioned. My company has also amended their "no weapons" policy in states that have parking lot laws.

Mercenary
June 4, 2011, 07:03 PM
In no way am I condoning breaking the law, but when I took my concealed carry class, my instructor told us about several instances where law abiding citizens CHOSE NOT to carry their gun due to the laws (i.e. having a gun in a financial institution, having a gun in a place where alcohol is sold and consumed,etc.). The end result was several people dead and the person who could have made a difference couldn't, all because they followed the law.

His thoughts were:

CONCEALED CARRY MEANS CONCEALED FROM PUBLIC VIEW.

Again, I am not condoning you breaking the law or possibly losing your job. My company policy is the same, in fact they aren't even allowed in vehicles, but I keep my PF-9 tucked away nicely either in my console or in my IWB holster and no one even has a clue.

Think of this, if a situation arises that you have to use your gun would you rather lose your job because you broke their rules or lose your life because you followed them?