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Ray33
April 16, 2011, 08:34 PM
I've been considering carrying a nonlethal weapon with me all the time and wanted advice on what to choose. I've been considering extendable batons, pepper spray, even tasers. What other nonlethal weapons are there and which is the most effective that I can carry on my person or leave in my car.

ClydeFrog
April 16, 2011, 09:06 PM
Would be a 4 legged friend, ;) .
Like a Doby or maybe a German Shepard.
If a med/large dog is not in the cards, I'd suggest a C2 Taser or if your budget allows it the Taser X26 model.
www.Taser.com
Chemical agents, impact weapons(ASP, PR24, etc) & other devices may work too but a Taser is safe, portable & easy to learn quickly.

CF

Eagle Eye
April 16, 2011, 09:16 PM
The most effective non-lethal weapon is your brain.:D

aarondhgraham
April 16, 2011, 09:21 PM
The stuff made by Fox Labs (http://www.redhotpepperspray.com/fox-labs-pepper-spray.html) gets real nice reviews.

A friend of mine accidentally (wink-wink nudge-nudge) sprayed her husband,,,
He whimpered like a little girl for a half an hour.

Was it wrong of me to laugh out loud when she told the story?

Aarond

stonewall50
April 16, 2011, 09:46 PM
Dogs are great...but they require intensive training and good luck spending the amount of time needed to keep a German sheppard happy. Not to mention it is gone the second he bites someone.

Extendable batons are not a good idea if you are not willing to put intensive training hours in(and I recomend Kali...which I am practicing right now and the stick still is very hard to use effectively because it isn't just a wack someoe and it works).

Tasers follow the same concealed laws in the state of florida, but you CAN carry stun guns onto university campuses here as long as they do not launch a projectile. I personlly do not want to be that close to someone where they can turn the stun gun on me.

Pepper spray can be turned on you too. I know I am being a negative nancy, but it is good to know the drawbacks of non-lethals. Of course the best bet would be to have a good idea on how to work without the non lethal (as in a generaal self defense class where at the very least you can practice even if you KNOW how to defend yourself) and how to work if the non-lethal is not as effective as you want(and if you choose a defense spray be aware of how much it is going to burn when it gets on you).

ClydeFrog
April 16, 2011, 09:48 PM
Wasn't it Rambo, John J that said his "mind" was his primary weapon?

:)

Jim243
April 16, 2011, 11:06 PM
Would be a 4 legged friend

Yep, German Shepard does it every time.

Wasn't it Rambo, John J that said his "mind" was his primary weapon?


Yah, but every time he opens his mouth, it is apparent that he left it at home.

Jim

ClayInTx
April 17, 2011, 06:16 AM
A Number Eight cast iron skillet in the hands of a PO’d wife.

DRBoyle
April 17, 2011, 07:44 AM
Eagle eye seems to have the right idea.

One out of left field for you might be the good old fashioned yo-yo. It was originally a weapon after all.:)

Flat Dog
April 17, 2011, 09:07 AM
A big Maglite flash light. Long, heavy, and perfectly legal to conceal or not.

microman
April 17, 2011, 09:22 AM
I've been considering carrying a nonlethal weapon with me all the time and wanted advice on what to choose. I've been considering extendable batons, pepper spray, even tasers. What other nonlethal weapons are there and which is the most effective that I can carry on my person or leave in my car.

Fox Labs 5.3 pepper spray is the best solution out of your choices.

http://foxlabs.com/pepperspray.shtml

Onward Allusion
April 17, 2011, 10:43 AM
aarondhgraham
Pepper spray,,,
The stuff made by Fox Labs gets real nice reviews.
A friend of mine accidentally (wink-wink nudge-nudge) sprayed her husband,,,
He whimpered like a little girl for a half an hour.
Was it wrong of me to laugh out loud when she told the story?
Aarond

Let's put it this way, if a man did this (wink-wink nudge-nudge) to his wife, he could easily lose his gun rights permanently.

Going back to the original question - bear spray.

old bear
April 17, 2011, 11:54 AM
A third vote for your brain along with good common sense.

Old Grump
April 17, 2011, 12:35 PM
Pepper spray where legal, kubotan and learn to use it. It scares the bejesus out of the authorities who dislike people who can protect themselves but it can more than double the effectiveness of a blow and is almost impossible to take away from you. When I lived in the Chicago area I made and gave away several to women who needed something but couldn't carry a gun or an effective knife. A small ballpeen hammer handle cut down to just an inch longer than the width of their hands and nobody ever looked twice at it.

irish52084
April 17, 2011, 01:00 PM
Another vote for your brain.

I'll also suggest a dog, though the can't always go everywhere with you. A german shepherd, doberman, rottweiler or any large protection dog is a serious deterrent. I'm surprised all the time by the way people back away from my dog because of how he looks.

As far as weapons go, I don't like pepper spray unless you train to use it correctly. A baton of some sort is good, but once again it comes down to training with it. The taser I like, because you can treat it much like a fire arm and use the same general rules of engagement with it as a handgun.

If you are healthy enough and willing, begin some form of self defense training. Please take something that incorporates grappling and striking as well as a focus on street defense rather than sport applications. Apply what you learn to whatever non-lethal weapon you choose.

stonewall50
April 17, 2011, 01:09 PM
I see the dog suggestion again. Something I must point out is that a dog is quite easily rendered useless by a smart attacker with a bit of food. Also remember that not every dog is as aggressive as you want. My father is a vet and I have petted MANY dobbermans and rotties(not in their kennels though...that seems to be whn they aare the toughest). German sheps are a pain to LIVE with. Dog's are a good detterant. But they are about as practical as a 26 barrel shotgun for any kind of moving around.

irish52084
April 17, 2011, 01:21 PM
A well trained dog will not be rendered useless by food. Once you set your trained dog to protect and it's go time they will be single minded in their purpose until you recall them. Once again it boils down to training the dog and yourself.

As far as living with a German shepherd, I don't find it to be a pain. Mine is well mannered and very tolerant of our small children. He requires the same amount of grooming and food as my old golden retriever or spaniel. He's a hell of a lot more intelligent than either of them though, and a lot scarier too.

If you don't want the responsibility of a dog, then don't get one. It would be bad for you and the dog if you don't really want one. I also understand it's hard to always have a dog with you and sometime we don't have time to invest in proper training for the dog in a busy lifestyle.

stonewall50
April 17, 2011, 01:42 PM
EXACTLY irish. Training is the most important factor. Not every dog is the same either. Some breeds are "softer" than others. Rotties are suprisingly docile. My question for your German shep though: how often does he get to go out and play? I have seen many a miserable GS who had owners who treated them like a Golden Retriever. They need excersise. They are a work dog and can be neurotic.

But like you said...proper training for owner and dog is important. It is very hard to do that with a dog unless you are a canine officer or have enough spare time(my father is a veterinarian as I have said before...and so he takes his labrador to work with him and so needless to say training time is not an issue...of course it is not aggression training, but retreiving lol).

Crazy88Fingers
April 17, 2011, 01:50 PM
I'd go with pepper spray. You can use it on multiple attackers from a distance, and it has a lasting effect. Plus it's pretty darn cheap.

If a baton isn't properly used, it can be considered a lethal weapon. And it requires you to be within arm's reach of your attacker(s).

A taser only allows you to engage one attacker. And once you release the trigger, or the battery runs out, you're back to square one. Though it may give you enough time to get to safety.

irish52084
April 17, 2011, 02:09 PM
stonewall50: My GS is actually a mix. He's GSD/Rottweiler and he looks like a GS from the neck back, but has the larger rottie head and chest. He goes out regularly, but nothing fancy, I walk him after work for a while.

Mine doesn't really play, it's the strangest thing. He has very little interest in toys unless you basically hand it to him, even then if it isn't tough and squeaky he only cares for a few seconds. I tried to throw balls and sticks for him and he just kind of does it to amuse me. He will kind of pounce and chase a bouncing ball, but only once or twice and then he's done. He spends most of his day following kids and jumping over baby gates.

Don P
April 17, 2011, 03:01 PM
Well Ray33, where do you live??? Would be helpful to know. Are you going to get training for the self defence devise you are going to choose to carry?
My next question is why are you looking for a non-lethal weapon???

Don H
April 17, 2011, 03:13 PM
I've been considering carrying a nonlethal weapon.....extendable batons, pepper spray, even tasers.
The use of all of these devices have resulted in deaths and/or serious injury.

weap·on/ˈwepən/Noun
1. A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

Webleymkv
April 17, 2011, 03:45 PM
Non-lethal is a misnomer when the term is applied to weapons. Just about every common weapon that is even remotely effective at stopping an attack also has the capacity to be lethal under the right circumstances. Pepper spray could easily kill someone with a respiratory illness, a tazer or stun gun could easily be fatal to someone with a heart or neurological condition, and just about any impact weapon or even your hands can be lethal if used the wrong way.

You also have the problem of reduced effectiveness with a "less lethal" weapon. Nearly all weapons stop an attack in one of two ways: either they disable or severely impair some function of the human body or they cause such great pain or discomfort that they persuade the attacker to change his/her course of action. Of those two methods, the first is by far the more effective because not everyone experiences or reacts to pain/discomfort the same way. While a dose of pepper spray would certainly make me re-evaluate my choices in life, it may not do the same to someone under the influence of some mind-altering chemical. As to the "less lethal" weapons that do physically disable or impair an attacker, they often are subject to limitations of use. Impact weapons and stun guns require you to be very close to an attacker and tazers require both leads to work as designed. There was an incident in my area not all that long ago in which a tazer used by a police officer failed to stop an attacker because both leads did not make contact (one became entangled in the legs of a chair that the attacker was trying to use as a weapon).

Another thing to consider is that a "less lethal" weapon won't necessarily keep you out of legal trouble. I cannot readily think of a scenario in which I would be legally justified in producing a weapon that I would not be legally justified in producing a lethal weapon. In most states, a person must be at minimum "in fear of death or great bodily harm" to be justified in using a deadly weapon. I very much doubt that many people would be looked on favorably by the law for using pepper spray, a tazer/stun gun, or an impact weapon unless they were also in "fear of death or great bodily harm". Also, just because a weapon has the capacity to be lethal, it does not mean that it must be employed in such a way (the underlug of a revolver, for instance, makes a formidable impact weapon).

Really, I'm not opposed to the use of "less lethal" weapons as I can see some merit to them in certain circumstances, but I do not think that they are a good replacement for a lethal weapon. There is a good reason why police still carry a firearm in addition to the "less lethal" options that they often use. I do think that someone who chooses to carry a "less lethal" weapon should seek some sort of training with it and be fully aware of its disadvantages and limitations as well as when the time has come to use the lethal weapon instead.

Crosshair
April 17, 2011, 06:22 PM
A roll of nickels is rather effective if used properly.

MLeake
April 17, 2011, 06:35 PM
http://www.canemasters.com/

I have a couple of friends who swear by these canes. They are specialty canes made for combative purposes, that still function as assistance devices.

Of course, these aren't non-lethal. They can be quite lethal, if one hits the right spots, and they will qualify as deadly weapons if employed as such. But they are not regulated, if that's what you were looking for.

ClydeFrog
April 17, 2011, 11:02 PM
I suggested K9s or dogs but I'd agree you must have the space/time/skills to handle the common LE/security breeds.
Even with formal training, some large dogs can wig the #%+@ out.
While a lower enlisted MP in the early 1990s, I heard of 2 different K9 MPs or "working dog" handlers(a US military term) get chewed up by their issued pooches. :(
As for the use of Maglights, I used to tote a 5 C cell Maglight on patrol. Some of my MP platoon members would ask to borrow it when I was off.
I recall too of a media item in Chicago IL. The police union pushed to keep the older heavy type Maglight as a PD issue item. ;)
It seems the top brass wanted to buy cheap plastic lights for patrol use.

As for Tasers, the firm now markets a larger multiple subject Taser. A large(200+ sworn officers) agency near me bought a few.
The T3s look like hair dryers and retail around $1700.00 USD www.QMuniforms.com . The C2 or maybe the X26 look much more practical.

I'd agree too that any "non lethal" or "less lethal"(a phrase I do not agree with) isn't going to cause an immediate stop to all critical events. They can just buy time or allow you to flee to a safer location or find LE.

ClydeFrog

stonewall50
April 17, 2011, 11:11 PM
@Irish: Play time for a dog isn't just a ball lol. It seems like you give him plenty of time to get out though lol. I had a mut from when I was younger who wouldn't ever "play" by our standards, but he LOVED to run. He could run all day and that is pretty much what he did(we lived in the boonies). But for GSs, the cops in my hometown(who my dad treats for basically no charge) run them on the obstacle courses alot. That's usually all it takes.

+1 to clydefrog. It is important to note that the non-lethals are to give you time to bolt. In actuallity that is what your concealed carry is for. To give you a chance to fight back to get away.

BigBob3006
April 17, 2011, 11:35 PM
I go with the people Who voted for the brain.

Every form of martial art that we have started with the brain of some poor farmer who would loose his head if he was found with a weapon in his possession, his home, on his farm or in the possession of a member of his family. It is difficult to keep track of what technique is the best. Especially if a technique works. Especially if the person who was charged to use a certain technique never comes back to tell you why a technique didn't work.

Wonderful thing the brain. :):):)


Remember, pickin' them up and layin' them down is also a non leathal form of self defense. The main reason I came back was to remind you, don't get so tied up in a non lethal defense that you become the only fatality of the incident.

moose_nukelz
April 18, 2011, 01:01 AM
Check with your state laws regarding batons, in California it is a felony outside of a very short list of circumstances to be in possession of one. OC/pepper spray works half the time and you are more than likely going to end up contaminating yourself to a certain degree.

45ACPShooter
April 19, 2011, 06:07 PM
I would guess that some kind of multi-shot taser would be the best although it'd be more expensive and harder to conceal than pepper spray or a kubotan. I've seen and heard about plenty of people being stopped by tasers whether or not they are determined and/or on drugs. Pepper spray I think is effective most of the time although occasionally there's people who aren't as effected by it and it might not be the best weapon in close quarters.

Ringolevio
April 19, 2011, 09:09 PM
The first rule of streetfighting was always "Have something in your hand".

I have a 110 lb. Shiloh Shepherd (old style GSD). But he's a deterrent, not a weapon. Your dog can best serve you by standing at your side (or behind your door, or behind your fence) and snarling and barking his head off. Anyone not deterred by that, you'll have to deal with yourself. But training a family pet to do bitework is fraught with peril, legal and otherwise.

Learn more about all aspects of dog training at www.Leerburg.com.

But the best "non-lethal" weapon is some kind of a stick. The poster who suggested a cane has the right idea. It'll give you the reach (so you can keep 'em from getting "inside" and jamming you up); it's "low tech" and therefore dependable, and it looks perfectly innocent until put to use. Learn a couple of moves. A cane is also a deterrent; it's obvious that you have something besides your bare hands and are capable of putting up a fight.

Of course, if you could walk down the street carrying a long-handled shovel...

egor20
April 19, 2011, 09:27 PM
+1 on the cane, when I fractured my leg a few years back my wife bought me an Irish Blackthorn Walking Stick from Cold Steel, it makes a very impressive weapon even for the untrained. I've now been taking some savat lessons, so I still on occasion walk with the cane in places I can't carry. :D

http://www.coldsteel.com/irishblackthorn.html

440SAW
April 19, 2011, 10:07 PM
Just because you have a weapon doesn't mean you have to use it. A majority of BG's would run if they thought they would be shot. The one's that would not might not be disabled assuredly.
All things considered you might carry spray and a concealed handgun. It is hard to continue an attack if you can't see; and that condition buys enough time to get the carry out of concealment, try to leave and be prepared if the assault continues.
If they cross the line and you are in danger of your life: act decisively.

ClydeFrog
April 19, 2011, 10:15 PM
I have serious problems with the use of impact weapons or sticks by citizens(not sworn LE or licensed security).
I tend to avoid the ASPs & PR24s because of the civil liability. I've seen events where a impact weapon could be useful & others where it would lead to a full scale brawl or an increased risk.
Using a thick cane or impact weapon could also make YOU look like the aggressor or "bad guy" when LE finally rolls in and a huge crowd of gawkers or on-lookers tell them how you bashed some guys brains out.
Even sworn LE officers can have problems. Look at the Youtube clip of the Pittsburgh PNC Park event. A drunk was hit with a nightstick by a uniformed Pittsburgh police officer.
The LE officer didn't strike the subject in the arm or leg either(as I was trained to do in the US Army military police years ago).

In closing, a ASP or PR24 may protect you against blows or be used for defense moves but I wouldn't choose it as my first weapon.

ClydeFrog

mnero
April 20, 2011, 08:04 AM
non-lethal weapons usually can be very lethal. I suggest intensive study in one of the martial arts(avoid the ones you see on tv if the advertise they are almost certainly useless as trainers) Jujitsu is my first choice, but it will take years untill it is instinct and if it ain't instinct then it is more dangerous to you then anyone else. The greatest benefits from training will be to your over all health and state of mind and those benefits take only weeks to begin to notice! All that said when unarmed running is always a good idea if possible, heck it is a good idea when armed, if possible:)

Old Grump
April 20, 2011, 12:01 PM
I have serious problems with the use of impact weapons or sticks by citizens(not sworn LE or licensed security).
I tend to avoid the ASPs & PR24s because of the civil liability. I've seen events where a impact weapon could be useful & others where it would lead to a full scale brawl or an increased risk.
Using a thick cane or impact weapon could also make YOU look like the aggressor or "bad guy" when LE finally rolls in and a huge crowd of gawkers or on-lookers tell them how you bashed some guys brains out.
Even sworn LE officers can have problems. Look at the Youtube clip of the Pittsburgh PNC Park event. A drunk was hit with a nightstick by a uniformed Pittsburgh police officer.
The LE officer didn't strike the subject in the arm or leg either(as I was trained to do in the US Army military police years ago).

In closing, a ASP or PR24 may protect you against blows or be used for defense moves but I wouldn't choose it as my first weapon.

ClydeFrog So what would you choose as a first weapon if you don't think civilians should be able to use a stick to defend themselves. If you lived in the Chicago area they take away tear gas, knives and guns from victims. Some of us with disabilities use a cane to keep our face off the pavement and the kubotans I handed out to women acquaintances were among those who had been disarmed. The kubotans never got a second look from anybody. I hope you aren't suggesting everybody join the police force in order to get a right and the training to defend themselves. If you don't approve of sticks what would you suggest, a whistle and a cell phone?

I think everybody not enrolling in the life of crime life style should get some basic training and wear a short sword and a dagger. Watch the muggings and rapes go down down down. Watch the bad guys go down, down, down.

Tongue and cheek on the sword comment but it sure would make life easier on citizens and harder on boogermen if the average Jane and John Doe walking down the street had a handgun and a seriously sharp knife on their person and a walking stick in their fist.

Hey, I have an idea, why don't we take the 2nd. at its word and act as if our rights should not be infringed.

stonewall50
April 20, 2011, 03:55 PM
Again I will emphasize this after having been in Kali...if you are going low tech with a cane or other blunt instrument...you need to train with it. It isn't a choke up and swing away game in a street fight. You need to hit the guy where it counts on the first shot or he IS going to get inside that stick and beat you down. Remember pommel strikes etc can work.

Quite frankly my "non lethal" is a knife (sarcasm). If a guy gets stabbed it is his choice if it is lethal...he has time to get to the hospital if I slice him up a little(switching strikes and he wont bleed out but he may not be able to use his arm). Again all was sarcasm there. I really cannot forsee a situation where I would use non lethal that I could not get out of without it. It helps that I am a big guy who is trained in martial arts, but when am I defending myself without a gun?

Rifleman1776
April 20, 2011, 05:10 PM
Yes, the PC term these days is "less lethal". I would vote for pepper spray.
It can be fired from a short distance, is easy to carry and concealable. Anyone can use it. And it is quite effective.
Maybe not as final as a gun but we are talking about options here.
I carry one and have used twice. Once on a dog trying to attack me. The other time on a drunk trying to punch me out. Stopped them both in their tracks.

ClydeFrog
April 20, 2011, 11:28 PM
Hey Old G;
I don't want to whiz in your Wheaties but you need to keep your state/local laws under consideration.
If you need a cane or stick for medical reasons so be it

Just keep the laws & use of force standards in mind. If you face a formal criminal charge or a massive civil lawsuit you can't honestly say these topics never came up before.

CF

Old Grump
April 21, 2011, 02:07 PM
My Wheaties are fine, the first point is everybody has a right to live and that means they have a right to self defense and no law, no regulation, no local ordnance can negate that right. The police and their liberal employers in local government may hassle you but when push comes to shove you have the right to defend yourself with whatever you can find to defend yourself. If getting pulled over and disarmed every time a policeman looks at you is a problem then the laws need to be changed.

In the meantime it is attitude not weapons that is the first tool in your defensive arsenal. Use a frying pan, a garbage can lid, a baseball bat, a can of hairspray, scream bloody murder, and if you have a baton or kubotan or cane or knife use it with prejudice. Hurt your attacker, disable him if you are able, kill him if you must but do not. I repeat, do not let yourself be defenseless because some legislator living in a safe neighborhood behind 10' walls and with private security says your stick is illegal. Use what you have and use it as hard as you can.

I have had one sister raped back in the 60's and another attacked, the one attacked I had just gone through a few self defense moves and an attitude talk with her. Her assailant ended up with a drum stick stuck in his eye. My grandmother ran off a man breaking into her kitchen door by jabbing him hard under the chin with a 30-30 right after levering a shell into the chamber. He wasn't happy to see the police but he felt safer with them then he did with her.

I am not whistling in some internet fantasy dark when it comes to self defense for self and family, I am dead serious and the local police officer can take the anti-weapon regulations and stick them up the legislators sunshine hole where they will do the most good.

If some mope is going to jump on me the absolute last thing on my mind will be 'what are the state laws governing my response.' If he jumps on one of my 4 sisters he is likely to have a really bad day. Especially if he jumps on the one carrying a .380 pistol. Another is a nurse whose son who runs a Dojo in North Carolina, mama is tougher than son. One has a large dog and a house full of guns and the last lives with me. She is blind and disabled with a bad back and arthritis but her two brothers, Mike and me, are very protective.

Don't be telling people they don't have a right to defend themselves because they haven't undergone some state approved self defense program or that the state doesn't like the stick they choose to carry.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I have read the constitution many times and nowhere in there is any clause allowing the state or the Federal Government to limit or regulate my ability to defend myself. That is the law I go by. Hardnosed, you betcha.

Eagle Eye
April 21, 2011, 02:17 PM
OG -- I like your attitude. Some will misinterpret your intentions as being a vigilante or troublemaker. I will not. Your style and meaning are right on the mark.;)

Terry A
April 23, 2011, 04:40 PM
April 16, 2011, 10:21 PM #4
aarondhgraham
Senior Member


Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 2,824 Pepper spray,,,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The stuff made by Fox Labs gets real nice reviews.

A friend of mine accidentally (wink-wink nudge-nudge) sprayed her husband,,,
He whimpered like a little girl for a half an hour.

Was it wrong of me to laugh out loud when she told the story?

Aarond
__________________




That OC spray feels like it melts your eyes.

A buddy from a neighboring department told me that the night before he was to get certified (sprayed) to carry OC Spray, he made up his mind that no matter how much or how bad it burned, he was going to not show any effects to anyone who would be watching. A few days later, I asked Big Joe (6'6" 250 lbs & a super officer & human being) how was it? His exact words were "Terry, there's not enough water in the world. It felt like hot shards of glass were being electrocuted into my eyes."

If you've been exposed to it a few times, it does become more tolerable each time. Still a bad day regardless.....

But personally, given the choice to be sprayed w/ OC or to be attacked by a vicious dog, you can go ahead a juice me. The last thing I would want is an aggressive dog biting at my groin area. Which is about where a big dogs head is level with on my 5'10" frame.

Deja vu
April 24, 2011, 11:39 AM
This is going to sound kind of dumb but I would say bring a couple friends.

If that is not an option the I would go with the dog. If that also is not an option I would go with Bear spray.

Doc Intrepid
April 24, 2011, 12:07 PM
There are drawbacks to every thing you can think of.

There are also circumstances where nothing will work.

That said, it would be more difficult for a single badguy to chase after you if they cannot see and are having trouble breathing due to a shot of pepper gel directly into their face.

Having been maced and exposed to a number of different OC, CS, and CN products during various training scenarios, after being exposed to the compounds my capacity to accurately aim a weapon or fight was compromised.

Given that a small cannister of pepper gel is a relatively convenient item to carry with you - especially for people who routinely go about their lives with a handgun and a pocket knife - it also acts as a reasonably effective force multiplier most of the time.

It gets my vote for being inconspicuous and relatively convenient, all else being equal.

YMMV.

dajowi
April 25, 2011, 12:53 PM
Rosie O'Donnell?:eek:

lawnboy
April 25, 2011, 02:27 PM
Sarcasm, and a fast 40yd time.

MLeake
April 25, 2011, 02:31 PM
Sarcasm worked very well for Doug Piranha. So did his merciless use of dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire.

Even his brother Dinsdale feared Doug.

Aside from Doug, Dinsdale only feared a giant hedgehog named Spiny Norman.

lawnboy
April 25, 2011, 02:49 PM
They grow them hedgehogs big on that side of the pond

amazon shooter
May 14, 2011, 03:28 PM
Hi guys,

A GS as a companion on a leash says one thing - pick an easier target.

Ringolevio
May 14, 2011, 07:52 PM
cf


Y'all think a criminal would be deterred or intimidated by a sweet little doggie like this?

sakeneko
May 15, 2011, 03:00 PM
I'm all for having a dog -- be it a German Shepherd or a Pomeranian -- but wouldn't have a dog for self defense. That gorgeous white GS in the pic in the previous post looks to me like he'd distract the perp by making friends. (Well, that how it would work with *me*, anyway.) ;)

In addition to my carry gun, I carry pepper spray and a small tactical flashlight in my purse. These mean that if a situation doesn't warrant lethal force, or if using lethal force might put innocent bystanders at risk, I've got other options. I was nearly electrocuted as a kid, so whatever I might know about tasers intellectually, they freak me out and I won't have one. When I'm hiking, I've got a good, stout walking stick with a steel-shod point on the end, but that's mostly to keep me from tripping over rocks or invisible specs of dust on the ground.

AirborneMosinFan
May 20, 2011, 04:32 PM
It's the best by far, I'm taking this chance to quote the hangover "some of these big boys need an extra shock to take them down" do you want to carry two tazers? But pepper stray blinds you, I didn't know I guy in my who regiment who could orient them selfsame enough to attack after being hit with a small spray of the stuff and they sell some that can spray across a room, and that's perfect if you are not worried about your life enough to kill the perp