PDA

View Full Version : Front Sight 4 Day Defensive Handgun Crs.


rodfac
April 12, 2011, 10:33 AM
Just finished Front Sight's 4 day defensive handgun course. It was first rate in all respects...600 rounds in four days, with 1 hour lectures, morning and afternoon, on strategy, tactics, ethical, moral, and legal ramifications regarding the use of lethal force in defending self and family on the street and in the home. In forty years of airline level training, (syllabus, good stand up briefings, simulators, post training de-brief sessions, superb professional instructors etc) I've never had better training....

I used a Glock 9 mm (rental - and the first time I've shot a Glock [it's ok but I still prefer a 1911]) for the training, shot distinguished, won the man to man steel challenge event and had never done any speed defensive training before. To say I'm satisfied with Front Sight is an understatement. Looking forward to taking my wife and daughter-in-law, (her husband's in Afghanistan) out next year.

Look into it if you're looking for some great training...they often run specials on the courses...ours was no$..t $89 for four days!!!

Rodfac

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/Rodfac/DSCN2091.jpg

S_Constitutionist
April 12, 2011, 12:56 PM
Congrats! I took the same course a few months back but just missed distinguished by a few points... Also won the steel challenge :D


FS is a great jumping off point to get you started in weapons training. I've had numerous instructors all say that when it comes to the basics, FS does it best or darn near it. I wish they would update their curriculum a bit to include modern advancements in stance and grip, but there is certainly nothing wrong with the way they teach it.

Glad to hear you had a good time! If only they would let you use one of those $89 deals for more than one course...

threegun
April 12, 2011, 03:19 PM
Rodfac, Did you notice what firearm the instructors carried? Most popular. Congrats on the instruction. A friend of mine also attended FS and loved it.

rodfac
April 12, 2011, 04:36 PM
Two of the three that worked with our group of 40 shooters were using Glock 17's. The third guy carried a 1911, but I didn't see the make...it had some custom features that make me think it was a Colt clone of some sort...a .45 ACP. Rod

threegun
April 12, 2011, 04:48 PM
thanks

S_Constitutionist
April 12, 2011, 04:54 PM
2 of my instructors carried 1911s, a Nighthawk and a Les Baer - another had an XD and the fourth (young kid) had an OD Glock 17.

45Gunner
April 13, 2011, 11:16 PM
Thanks for the informative post. I have been giving serious consideration to attending a course at Front Sight since a friend of mine attended and also gave it a very high rating. As a former Airline Pilot, Flight Instructor, and Firearms Instructor, I feel that one can never receive too much instruction. As the saying goes, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. So I strive to learn as much as I possibly can whenever I can.

rodfac
April 14, 2011, 09:54 AM
45 gunner...we have the same career back ground...here's the end of course critique that I sent: the instructors (all of them) were the best I've dealt with over the years...military or airline...and standardized...they all sang from the same hymnal...they must have a superb instructor training module.

Course Date:* April 4, 1011
Range Master: Pat Walker
Range #11

April 13, 2011

PROFESSIONALISM AND FRIENDLIENESS: These are great instructors...I have nothing but good things to say of them.

*** PAT WALKER - 10:*** Ms. Walker is one first rate instructor. Her command of the subject material, her standardized method of instruction and her patient but strong control of the range and it's 45 occupants was superb. Pat has the ability to establish and maintain a safe environment on the range without an "in your face....bootcamp" attitude, a very difficult job in my opinion. She and her fellow instructors brought our group of 40+shooters (with widely varying shooting backrounds), to a level of competency I'd never have guessed. She has a thorough, expert knowledge of the handgun's use in defense...and not just the rental Glock's...she covered differences between the 1911's, Sigs, Smiths, and H&K's. It was a pleasure to work with her...I managed to shoot Distinguished, and also won the man to man steel event without previous competitive handgun shooting experience. Pat and her cadre of instructors are directly responsible for my success. They left me confident in my abilities, aware of the areas where I need improvement, and very thankful for Pat Walker's excellent instruction.

*** JEFF TUCKER - 10:* *** Here's another superb instructor. Jeff's "on the line" experience is evident in his attitude towards his students. Friendly, persuasive in his deliveries, he helped me numerous times as I fought the large grip on my rental Glock. From the first day, he brought his enthusiasm for this type of shooting to all of us. He always had time for questions, would be there in an instant for help, and kept his patience when it was obviously the 55th time he'd answered the same question. His attention to the detail necessary in this type of instruction was superb. He knows the guns...the procedures...the mental attitudes... He's a credit to your organization and in my opinion, ready for additional responsibility...I don't know how you pick your range masters, but Jeff Tucker would be a great choice.

*** PHIL MOLDONADO - 10:** A great instructor, ready with an answer whenever needed. He's pro-active in teaching the methods espoused by Front Sight, thoroughly knowledgeable of the techniques and procedures that make up defensive handgun mastery. Patient, but firmly in control of the safety issues that are relevant* on a firing line of 40 diverse individuals, his friendly attitude towards instruction made my Front Sight training a joy. Phil, like Jeff Tucker, is more than ready for additional responsibilities.

As an airline and former military pilot, I've received literally hundreds of hours of very technical instruction over the past 45 years. In that time, I have never had better training. Your stand-up briefers in the lecture format are absolutely superb...even when tired, I perked right up when they began their presentations. You've recruited some very talented people..Sorry to say I didn't copy down their names at the time but all were fantastic. I came away from Front Sight with a good ability with a handgun, but even more important, with a far better understanding of the moral, ethical, and practical limitations of its use to defend my family. As you may or may not know, STANDARDIZATION, is one very important key to flying safety...if all are trained to the same standard, as a pilot you know you can depend on a certain response in case of an abnormal situation. ...That said, I found that the three instructors we had on range 11, Pat Walker, Jeff Tucker, and Phil Moldonado were identical in their individual knowledge and demonstration of the techniques...this is no small feat, and a tribute to your instructor training program...whatever you are doing with your instructor training...it's working...they're obviously happy in their work, superbly trained to impart quality instruction, and enthusiastic in their delivery. I'm truly impressed!

FACILITIES;

*** Ranges...first rate...but louder bull horns would have made range commands easier to hear...a safety issue, in my opinion.
*** Equipment:..rental Glock 17 and ammunition were good, but a red gun for practice should be a part of the issued equipment...
*** Water, shade, etc...all good especially the covered venue at the range...would have been a god-send in the event of rain...

TIME ALLOCATION:

*** Time:* I found the breaks between range activities a bit short...loading magazines while serving as a safety observer/coach on the line was a practical necessity for me and most people around me. Allowing a minute or two for mag. loading (and not while watching another shooter manipulating his piece) would be a safety improvement.

*** Time: Additional time spent with malfunctions might be productive. Not a lot, but an additional 10-15 minutes for each type would help. For the rental gun users, who can't practice at the hotel at night, this would help cement the procedures.

COURSE MATERIALS:***

*** Published Course notes and the pictorial guides should be a part of the issue equipment...add to the price of the course if necessary to make this happen. In the evening, when trying to remember the exact procedural steps (as well as at home a month later) this will add to the quality of the training. Charging $40 for them in the pro-shop detracts from the overall professional impression that Front Sight imparts. This is my one criticism of the entire training experience...

I was delighted with my training at Front Sight...have recommended it to every shooter I've met since returning. I'm in the process of selling my wife on attending a 4 day course next year and would love to take my two sons (aged 33 and 38) as well. Your training was extremely thorough, the instructors, unsurpassed, and, of no small import, it was FUN. I wish you further success and look forward to attending again.* Overall I'd rate my experience a 9.9.

Best Regards

markj
April 14, 2011, 02:29 PM
They are having a special on pricing now, least the emails say so I get from them.

GregInAtl
April 15, 2011, 11:22 AM
Do they offer these in Georgia anywhere

markj
April 15, 2011, 03:28 PM
http://www.frontsight.com/Schedule.asp?View=List

Looks like nevada or Alaska may be it.

Dewhitewolf
April 24, 2011, 08:31 PM
I took the same course at Front Sight a few years ago. I'd go back but for me it's too expensive.

I thought it was a great course. Unfortunately I didn't make the distinguished graduate grade, partly because I'm cross-dominant (no matter how I address that situation, it's still awkward and I don't quite get the result I want).

But I want to go back and take the course again, this time earn that DG!

C.L.
April 26, 2011, 08:38 AM
I was looking at their web page and came accross this:

https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp

How legitimate is this? Given all the things listed I am of course interested and wouldnt mind paying to get all that stuff plus attend a course. It just screams scam to me though. Any thoughts?

Mick3411
April 26, 2011, 09:40 AM
Took the same course at the end of March. Great instructors and I learned a lot. Used an cd 9 with no problems at all. I would like to go to another class in the future

GregInAtl
April 26, 2011, 09:58 AM
How legitimate is this? Given all the things listed I am of course interested and wouldnt mind paying to get all that stuff plus attend a course. It just screams scam to me though. Any thoughts?

I have heard nothing but good things about it from people on this board. Be prepared, though, to be bombarded with emails once you inquire about it. I get at least 2 a day from them.

C.L.
April 26, 2011, 11:15 AM
Thanks GregInAtl, I may give it a shot then. I can deal with emails if Im gonna get a deal like that.

Providence
May 1, 2011, 07:46 PM
My wife and I attended Front Sight's 4 day handgun course during the first week of April. The course was comprehensive and professional. We were impressed! But it was expensive to travel to Nevada.

threegun
May 2, 2011, 11:45 AM
I can deal with emails if Im gonna get a deal like that.

I had to unsubscribe because my phone was email ringing at 3 in the AM :mad:


That said my friend got a membership for like 99 buck or maybe 199. I'll ask him next time we shoot. He is signed up for their shotty course next. Point is maybe the gun offer is still to expensive when they are offering for less than 200. Buy your own gun and pocket that savings.

Johannes_Paulsen
May 6, 2011, 05:58 AM
How legitimate is this? Given all the things listed I am of course interested and wouldnt mind paying to get all that stuff plus attend a course. It just screams scam to me though. Any thoughts?

I have heard nothing but positive things from a repeat Front Sight customer who flies out to Nevada from the east to take their classes. But I have to admit that their website just screams "Nigerian Scam" to me.

It's good to hear those positive comments backed up on this site.

Providence
May 6, 2011, 06:58 PM
We attended one class. We did not join for a variety of reasons, mainly because of the distance. If you do a search you'll find some problems in the past, and a couple of possibly unfounded allegations. It's hard to tell what is true. I can say that I have a friend who is a lifetime member. He is very happy with his membership. He has already attended 4 courses I believe that's the number.

catnphx
May 6, 2011, 07:25 PM
jkp1187 said: But I have to admit that their website just screams "Nigerian Scam" to me.

That is why I've been hesitant to give them a 2nd thought ... their emails and website make me feel like those "blackbelt factory" martial arts schools. Kinda gave me the creeps. :barf:

I am glad to hear that people are feeling like they are gaining value from their courses though.

MLeake
May 6, 2011, 07:28 PM
My dad somehow got onto their mailing list; he does not know how. He was amazed by the amount of email he received.

ranburr
May 7, 2011, 01:23 AM
Have those of you who enjoyed Frontsite received training anywhere else? 40 shooters in one class is not a class I would want to part of.

Mick3411
May 7, 2011, 06:40 PM
"Have those of you who enjoyed Frontsite received training anywhere else? 40 shooters in one class is not a class I would want to part of.
__________________
ranburr"


I have taken courses elsewhere and because of the way FS ran the relays of shooters, and with 3 or more instructors working the line it felt safe and was effective.

ranburr
May 7, 2011, 11:08 PM
I have taken courses elsewhere and because of the way FS ran the relays of shooters, and with 3 or more instructors working the line it felt safe and was effective.
__________________
Mick

I'm sorry, but you get much more than a dozen shooters in a class, your being cheated as a student. I realize that Frontsite is dirt cheap. But, you get what you pay for. You can train with the best guys in the country for essentiall $200.00 a day (scheduled course). For me, it is more than worthwhile to spend the extra money. You will probably come out cheaper by setting up a class (usually around a dozen students) and bring some of the big names to you, (no airfare or hotel).

catnphx
May 8, 2011, 07:18 PM
Just got this today. I mean, I'm very happy for those that feel good about the training they received from FS but I get these every damn day. Very slimy, very (as I believe some earlier said) Nigerian scamish, tae kwon do blackbelt factory, etc... Heck, they don't even give a Nevada address.

Maybe it's just me but I refuse to get training from someone that sends me these type of emails nearly everyday.

Sunday, May 8, 2011

WARNING to Front Sight NON MEMBERS! The Final, Big, Members Reward is Coming and You Will Want to Be a Front Sight Diamond Member when the Big Reward is Released.

This is Your LAST Chance to Become a Front Sight Diamond Member before the Final, Big, Members Reward...

Dear Scott,

When I have provided Big Rewards to Front Sight Lifetime Members in the past, the higher your level of membership, the greater the value and reward.

If you are not yet a Front Sight All Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Member, then this is your last chance before what is likely the FINAL, Big, Members Reward.

I cannot get into the details in this e-mail, other than to tell you we are approaching a point where there will no longer be any further BIG REWARDS, so I am giving you fair warning and one last chance to do everything you can to become a Front Sight All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Member before the FINAL Big Reward for Members.

If you are reading this right now you are VERY lucky because you were randomly selected out of our subscriber list to receive the opportunity to become an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Member for the same cost of a single course!

That's right! An All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Membership for the same cost of a single course!

If YOU are one of the lucky subscribers reading this e-mail, you have a short window of opportunity to become an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Member for the same cost of a single course!

Don't miss this opportunity as you may never be selected again to receive a Foreclosed, All-Inclusive Diamond Membership again.

HOW does this work?

It is easy to do.

Simply call my office TODAY at 1.800.987.7719 between the hours of 8:30am and 5:30pm PST and ask for Jon, Doug, Tim, Mack or Phil. Tell them you want to become All-Inclusive, Diamond Lifetime Membership for $2,000 and they will enroll you as an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Member!

We currently have a very limited supply of Foreclosed Diamond Memberships with balances as low as $2,000.

So if you are among the first to call YOU can secure an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Membership for ONLY $2,000.

Here is what you get with an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Membership:

- ATTEND ANY COURSE (Over 50 Different Courses) HELD AT FRONT SIGHT AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WISH FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
- Attend Annual, Two-Day Secrets of the Ultra Successful Event Free of Charge
- Guaranteed Placement in any course with two weeks advance enrollment.
- 40% Savings On Any Products Purchased from Pro Shop, Gunsmith, and Armory.
- Use of Front Sight's Private First Family Ranges.
- Use of Locker in Front Sight's future Armory.
- Invitation to annual July 4th Lifetime Members' Reunion Celebration.
- Name etched in future First Family Monument.
- Password to access exclusive and restricted First Family areas of website and forum.
- First Family Card and First Family Hat.
- That's Right! An All-Inclusive, Foreclosed Diamond Lifetime Membership for ONLY $2,000.

Just Don't Wait on Calling because the Foreclosed Diamond Memberships with $2,000 balances owing on them will get snapped up quickly. Call my office TODAY at 1.800.987.7719 between the hours of 8:30am and 5:30pm PST and ask for Jon, Doug, Tim, Mack or Phil. Tell them you want an All-Inclusive, Diamond Lifetime Membership for $2,000 and they will enroll you as an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Member!

REMEMBER, to be fair, I had to do a random selection of our current subscribers because I do not have enough of these special, Foreclosed, All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Memberships to offer to everyone.

If YOU are one of the lucky members reading this e-mail, you have a short window of opportunity to grab an All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime membership for the same cost of a single course!

Don't miss this opportunity as you may never be selected again to receive a Foreclosed, All-Inclusive Diamond Membership again and position yourself for even greater rewards in what is likely our FINAL Members Reward coming shortly.

Sincerely,

Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
7975 Cameron Drive, #900
Windsor, CA 95492

Johannes_Paulsen
May 12, 2011, 09:05 AM
REMEMBER, to be fair, I had to do a random selection of our current subscribers because I do not have enough of these special, Foreclosed, All-Inclusive Diamond Lifetime Memberships to offer to everyone.

Wow....can you insult my intelligence any more? Please?

Hey wait a minute, if you join the diamond membership NOW you get the Rolex watch!

I mean Rolex, that's what self defense is all about, right? :rolleyes:

Rapid Response Bonus #7: A Rolex Front Sight Watch. Yes, It's a real Rolex! This limited edition, special Rolex watch is created with a custom Front Sight face made especially for you -- a Front Sight Diamond Member. Everyone recognizes a Rolex watch for its prestige, quality, and beauty. Now you will be recognized for your Front Sight Diamond Membership as well when people ask you, "Where can I get one of those Rolex watches?" And you respond with, "You can't. This was a personal gift given to me by Front Sight's Founder, Dr. Ignatius Piazza when I became a Front Sight Diamond Member!"

EDIT: I am not bashing the content of their courses; I have never taken one with Front Sight and so cannot speak to that. All I can speak to is their rather obnoxious advertising.

threegun
May 15, 2011, 01:54 PM
I'm sorry, but you get much more than a dozen shooters in a class, your being cheated as a student

Ranburr, Mick3411 answered your question and has attended other training and feels Front Site is safe and effective. On what experience are you basing your presumption?

ranburr
May 15, 2011, 07:52 PM
I have been through a lot of courses and there is no way three instructors can handle 40 students. Most trainers will have themself and an assistant for 10-12 students.

MLeake
May 15, 2011, 09:41 PM
My father got FrontSight to remove him from their Spam list a week or so ago. Problem is, while the emails have ceased, a few days ago my parents started getting automated phone calls from a FrontSight computer recording.

Not my type of operation...

seed
May 15, 2011, 10:07 PM
Kinda cult-like...hmmm...

threegun
May 17, 2011, 07:41 PM
Ok spoke with my buddy fresh back from the cult........I mean Front Site. He retook the 4 day handgun and added a shotgun course over the last two weeks. Again he is all craps and giggles. Has nothing but good to say. I'm gonna debrief him on the shotty course to see if I can pick up any helpful tactics.

Anyway he said class size was 40 students. Twenty on the line at a time with the other 20 acting as coaches......so basically paired off. He said there were 4 instructors and a range safety officer. Thats 1 instructor for every 5 students shooting plus the RSO and your coach.

Like I said my buddy is tickled pink with the school. He has attended 3 classes so far and plans many more. Drove 40 hours straight through (with another buddy) there and then 40 back. Must be worth something to go through that IMO. Got the membership for like 199 on a special.

Shotty class was way smaller with 2 instructors and an RSO.

ws6_keith
May 23, 2011, 08:24 PM
MLeake - they have to answer and press #3 or something like that. I got those to my cell for a few days before I listened to the message and heard the first part on how to option out.

I agree with threegun - I just went through the 4-day defensive handgun class again (first time in that one since 98 or so) and we had 37 in my class. They paired us up for buddy-system training...one shoots while the other watches for safety and procedural issues. We had one rangemaster and 3-4 instructors throughout the course. Sometimes, a floating instructor would pop in to make it 4-5.

Overall, great course. I'm very happy with the level of training and will continue to take classes (got a Diamond memberhsip now, so that helps). :)

Roamingdoc83
June 28, 2011, 02:35 PM
They continue to call 'even' if you signed up. There is a major disconnect with the company and whomever they hired as telemarketers. Do a Google search and note that many people are disgusted with being phoned multiple times a day (I've gotten three calls in ONE day!) I've pressed there so many times my trigger finger is bruised. Bad business practices...

threegun
June 28, 2011, 03:53 PM
I've opted out and the emails stopped but the phone calls haven't. I wish I had Ignacius Piazza's home phone number to give him a little taste of his own medicine.

One call was while I was still in bed and thats 10pm to 6am ish. I think it was early AM like 530 or so.

I most likely wouldn't have attended the training facility anyway because my buddy has been giving it to me for free however with this aggressive marketing I'm sure of it.

TailGator
June 29, 2011, 08:45 AM
You can call their 800 number, give them your phone number, and ask that the calls stop. They hung up on me twice, but they stopped calling my house. Just don't expect anything resembling courtesy.

A previous thread on this subject, within the last month, was locked, but a search might still be productive.

threegun
June 29, 2011, 09:06 AM
So far all of their curriculum is the same or very similar to what is taught at other facilities. The speed at which you perform different drills while achieving appropriate hits on target determines what ranking you finish with.

Good sound curriculum however the high pressure ad's make me gag. I would shop elsewhere if in the market for training.