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View Full Version : Rock River AR-15 Test Fired at Factory?


steve1147
April 9, 2011, 03:43 PM
Just bought a 'new' Rock River AR-15 in .223 Remington from a local dealer who claims to have a factory certified guy (armorer?) build them on-site.
I was in-store to order my rifle, waited, and it was ready an hour later. I know they couldn't have 'test-fired' it there 'cause the business is in town. Still, when I got it home and tore it down, it was dirty inside, powder residue, etc. It also came with an obviously used old metal military 30 round clip.
Base price was $700, plus my options I had added which totalled almost $1,000 with 200 rounds of ammo. No manual, No paperwork other than a receipt for all the "parts" to make the rifle.
Am I crazy, or is this normal?
Thanks, Steve W.

PS: Did I menetion the 'dust door' latch that covers the bolt was very well worn from slamming open numerous times?

Blackops_2
April 9, 2011, 03:47 PM
No paperwork :confused: i agree that sounds fishy. I've bought 3 firearm related items that had to go through a FFL and all required paperwork.

steve1147
April 9, 2011, 05:01 PM
Oh, I had to do the regular paperwork, you know, all lines except #23 are NO, etc. No idea if it was actually 'turned-in' or checked. Just no manual, instuctions, etc. for the rifle, which I thought odd, I've always gotten boxes, fired casings, manuals, etc. with other weapons.

Txhillbilly
April 9, 2011, 05:16 PM
It sounds like your guy is just assembling guns at his shop out of parts.If you would have bought a NEW RRA rifle,it would have come in a RRA Hardcase with all the factory paperwork.
Who knows what type of gun you really have,I'd say it probably isn't a Rock River.Just a Rock River lower that they assembled,and topped it off with whatever type/brands of upper they had around or assembled.

I hope you don't have any trouble with it,I'd bet that it isn't a true RRA gun,and you won't have any type of factory warranty if something goes wrong.

ndking1126
April 9, 2011, 05:21 PM
I'm sure RRA would love to know of this "satelite office" kind enough to be buliding rifles for them!!

Never bought a new gun that didn't have box, papers, etc.

KChen986
April 9, 2011, 05:43 PM
FWIW, my RRA LAR8 came 'new' test-fired from the factory. Brass markings on the bolt face and very light residue.

goodspeed(TPF)
April 9, 2011, 05:45 PM
from a local dealer

Who is the local dealer?

mc223
April 9, 2011, 05:55 PM
Sounds like they got ya. I bet somebody got a new Rock River, just wasn't you.

steve1147
April 9, 2011, 07:10 PM
And I already sent an email to RRA explaining what transpired, just to get their take on it.

Quentin2
April 9, 2011, 08:31 PM
Yeah, this is just a "custom build" using a RRA lower, the rest could be anything. I'd go back and try to get the rest of the story. Definitely ask if there's a warranty and who stands behind it.

As far as a manual, you can download a PDF from almost any reputable AR website and maybe even get a printed one sent from RRA.

The next step is figure out what your options ended up costing. $700 normally buys a very basic AR unless you hit a great sale. Then figure what the ammo would cost and tax. After subtracting that all out you'll know what the upgrades cost and whether you got reamed. Unfortunately it's not looking real good right now.

You could give more of the specs here and maybe get an idea what the rifle's really worth.

jackblack73
April 10, 2011, 01:43 AM
So is it not even in 5.56?

steve1147
April 10, 2011, 08:52 AM
Lower is RRA LAR-15, 5.56, barrell is stamped BRO 5.56 1x8 SS Poly 5. Trigger movement really sucks though, no slow steady sqeeze possible, it's very jerky. I'll re-clean and oil it to see if that helps.

jackblack73
April 10, 2011, 01:32 PM
Oh ok. I was wondering since you said it was in .223 Remington in your first post.

Nitesites
April 10, 2011, 01:41 PM
A brand new rifle assembled at a LGS? Huh? Sounds to me like your "new" rifle is more like a "new to you" firearm. BUT, get the facts first from the horse's mouth rather than our opinion. Ask the dealer in plain English. Also, asking RRA was a step in the right direction. What about your reciept?

carprivershooter
April 10, 2011, 09:32 PM
I picked up a Rock River Arm 223/5.53 today. It came with a hard case, a thirty round mag, and the Army, Air Force, Marine Corp Manual. Showed signs of a being test fired. My lgs said he would build one for me using RRA parts. He sells several brands of ARs, RRA is just one brand

the rifleer
April 10, 2011, 10:08 PM
Im interested in hearing what the reply from RRA is.

johnbt
April 11, 2011, 09:22 AM
"barrell is stamped BRO 5.56 1x8 SS Poly 5"

Black Rain Ordnance?

http://blackrainordnance.com/BRO/Barrels

steve1147
April 11, 2011, 01:24 PM
Black Rain Ordnance?


Don't know, would a pic help? He did tell me it was stainless steel.

bassfishindoc
April 11, 2011, 07:14 PM
I'm guessing you have been had. That does not look like a pic of a new firearm. I purchased a new RRA and it came in perfect condition. The pic you posted has numerous scuffs and scratches on the barrel, gas block, hand-guard, and screws. Have you fired it yet? Any way you an get your money back? Sounds like you may have a legal case if they sold it to you under false pretenses. You might want to go talk to the owner of the store you bought it from, and let us know the name of the shop so we can avoid them in the future.

TPAW
April 11, 2011, 08:38 PM
Smells fishy to me........:confused:

cornbush
April 11, 2011, 10:46 PM
Hate to say it, but like a few others.... I think they pulled one over, RRA may want to get involved to help you out though....this guy is running their name.

sailskidrive
April 12, 2011, 05:48 AM
I'm not sure I agree that he got screwed over. Take the "almost a grand" he spent on the rifle, subtract out $50 for sales tax and about $100 for the ten boxes of ammo, that leaves $850 for the gun. Considering that it has a stainless barrel and at least some Rock River parts I don't think $850 is really that unreasonable. The real question is whether or not what he was buying was misrepresented as an actual Rock River factory gun.

$850 still won't buy an AR here on the western shore side of Maryland. I was in The Armory in Annapolis last week and they didn't have anything under grand. (the place is a rip off)

steve1147
April 12, 2011, 04:29 PM
OK, got a phone call from "Kate" while ago from Rock River Arms.
Her reply: "We ship the parts out to the dealers, what they do with them after that is up to them". Period.
"We're not responsible". Period.
"Sorry you feel like that, but there's nothing we can do". Period.
When I asked if they monitor or qualify their dealers, I was told "We have thousands of dealers, we can't keep track of them all....".

It may not have been a 'bad deal' overall, but I don't LIKE to think I'm buying new and be sold used. Oh, by the way, "Kate" at Rock River properly let me know it was my responsibility to inspect the rifle at purchase to verify it's 'new' status.
I've NEVER had this even come-up in all my prior firearms purchases, but I'll definately be more careful from now on.

Thanks Everyone, Steve W.

precision_shooter
April 12, 2011, 04:44 PM
Ok, I don't get why you're mad at RRA...

YOU bought a rifle from a shop that said it was an RRA rifle.

How is that RRA's fault?

It's like the Chinese Leupold knockoffs that were showing up a while back. It wasn't Leupold's fault that some other "company" was making Leupold Clones so why should Leupold fix a customer's mistake?

Same thing goes for this instance, It's not RRA's fault that a gunshop is selling rifles with an RRA lower and LPK and calling it an RRA rifle. There is nothing they can do about what some gunshop calls the rifle THEY BUILT. I don't know what you expected RRA to do about it...

Longdayjake
April 12, 2011, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I hate to say this but I think this is entirely your fault. You can blame Rock River all you want, but you had alarm bells going off in your head and you still walked out the door with the rifle. Anyone can buy Rock River parts and put a rifle together and call it a Rock River rifle. Its not like RRA can control in any way what people do. What is it that you expect them to do? Go stand in every gun shop and check every rifle with their lower on it to make sure it was made by them?

I agree that the dealership was being dishonest and that you have a legitimate gripe. However, when it comes to buying a new gun you need to make sure the gun is actually new before you take it home.

BTW that is not a RRA barrel. That I know for sure.

Also, you should shoot it and see how it does for you to see how angry you really are. It might be the most accurate rifle in the world.

Steven_Seagal
April 12, 2011, 05:13 PM
BRO is Black Rain Ordnance. Justin is the guy who owns that company - I have met him at some shows and he is a great dude. Call him and get one of his lowers to go with the upper, sell the RRA lower and you got yourself a good quality AR.

The guys at Rock River are great, too by the way. They run a great operation but this is not their fault.

You should be all over the dealer about this and chew his ass out! that is absolutely unacceptable

steve1147
April 12, 2011, 05:19 PM
Yup, next time I buy a new Ford F-150 pickup at a dealer, I'm gonna have to tear it down, verify all the parts are standard Ford parts, and that none of the parts are used before I leave the lot with it. ANY company should be concerned with the actions of their dealers. Sorry RRA is not.
Yes, I'm the fool. This thread is ended as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks, Steve W.

Steven_Seagal
April 12, 2011, 05:28 PM
Steve, you are right - RRA should look into that dealer. I have spoken with RRA about their dealers before and they told me they have banned dealers from selling their products for pulling stunts like that. Seriously, call RRA again and just ask them if they could contact that dealer and look into it.

davlandrum
April 12, 2011, 05:33 PM
Well if I was looking at a "new" Ford truck that had rock chips in the paint, bugs stuck in the radiator and a bumper sticker on it, I might think it was really not new...

Sorry this happened to you.

Tombstonejim
April 12, 2011, 05:39 PM
I bought a RRA AR from the local dealer. it came complete with a case 2 mags and instruction manual.

Since I did not buy it direct from RRA I ask them to tell me exactly what I had. They sent me an Email telling me exactly what parts were on the rifle and what the configuration was when it left their factory.

They could not have been more helpful. Your comparison of the F150 is not valid because you bought the rifle from a used car dealer not from Ford.

A simple look on RRA site before you bought would have made it immediately clear that the rifle you bought was not a true RRA.

I'm betting that it does not have the RRA 2 stage trigger nor their very fine adjustable sight.

Quentin2
April 13, 2011, 12:27 AM
Well Kate needs a little more customer service training and she could have explained better that it's very common for RRA and many other manufacturers sell sell AR parts to lots of dealers. Once a dealer (or an individual) gets a RRA lower receiver they can build up an AR with any parts they choose. The rifle will appear to be RRA due to the rollmark but the end result could be better or worse than a factory RRA. I have a S&W stripped lower that was used to build my last AR and though it says S&W on the side there are no other S&W parts in that rifle.

Anyway, to be fair it truly is out of their control, the dealer is to blame here. He should have described the parts better and been up front this is not a factory gun nor does RRA have any responibility or warranty other than the lower receiver and any other parts that may be theirs.

I hope the dealer offers his own warranty. Good luck with the rifle...

ETA: I bet RRA would send you a printed manual though...

steve1147
April 13, 2011, 07:07 AM
Oh Well, it's been a learning experience. And I still like the gun, although a trigger change is definately in the future for it.
I was just too trusting after having nothing but great experiences with all my other gun purchases at different dealers and shows. I was always TOLD if I was buying used.
Live and Learn, and Buyer Beware!
Thanks Everyone!

PS: Any advice on a trigger purchase? Nothing too extravagent, just a smooth pull as oppossed to this jerky thing.

Longdayjake
April 13, 2011, 02:39 PM
An AR trigger is not too hard to polish up and get a nice crisp pull. As long as all you do is polish it, you probably won't hurt anything and you will notice a really big improvement.

precision_shooter
April 13, 2011, 03:49 PM
You may not want to hear it, but........RRA's 2-stage trigger is very good and reasonably priced as well.

jackblack73
April 13, 2011, 10:04 PM
Maybe I missed it, but did you actually call the shop you bought it from? Maybe it was a legitimate miscommunication or misunderstanding. Depending what options you added, it is possible the gun was already assembled and was test fired. For example, I'd be surprised if they assembled an upper while you waited. And maybe they gave you the wrong mag. I think you need to see what the shop will do for you, because this is certainly not RRA's fault.

bassfishindoc
April 13, 2011, 10:44 PM
+1 on the RRA two stage trigger. I own a RRA with that trigger and it is absolutely awesome. I wouldn't hesitate putting it into another AR.

Rob228
April 13, 2011, 10:48 PM
Two guys beat me to it, and I honestly don't want to pour salt on an open wound, but the RRA trigger is awesome.

steve1147
April 14, 2011, 07:08 PM
An AR trigger is not too hard to polish up and get a nice crisp pull. As long as all you do is polish it, you probably won't hurt anything and you will notice a really big improvement.

New to me. I do understand the mechanism, I assume I should polish the ramp where the pawl goes up and drops the hammer onto the firing pin (wrong terminology I'm sure.....new to rifles here)?
What's a good polishing technique? I have a Dremel if that'd help, however in the tight spaces I would guess it's done by hand? Also just looked-up the RRA 2-stage, about $120.00. Maybe in a couple weeks, right now would like to make what I got work better!
Thanks, Steve W.

Mobuck
April 14, 2011, 08:24 PM
Sorry to say this Steve, but you don't appear to have the knowledge or experience needed to properly "polish" the sear surfaces and Dremel is about like cussing in church.
In reference to the inhouse lower assembly, There is not much you can mess up in putting together an AR lower and if you do, it leaves a mark.

Ridge_Runner_5
April 14, 2011, 10:27 PM
Steve, before you do anything to the gun, confront the dealer. You asked to buy a Rock River AR-15, and he gave you a Rock River-based kit gun. Don't get loud at him, just politely ask him to help make this right.

I'd be very upset if that happened to me, and I'd want it rectified in one way or another.

steve1147
April 15, 2011, 08:51 AM
Sorry to say this Steve, but you don't appear to have the knowledge or experience needed to properly "polish" the sear surfaces and Dremel is about like cussing in church.


:D Probably good advice, the man reads me well!
Think I'll order the RRA 2-stage and let the gunsmith down the road put it in.
Thanks All.
Steve W.

Quentin2
April 15, 2011, 09:28 AM
Well with that trigger you'd pretty much have a complete RRA lower. I would pin down the builder for a list of the other parts, it's especially important to know what went into the upper.

Longdayjake
April 15, 2011, 09:45 AM
What's a good polishing technique?

Well, I wrap a bunch of steel wool around a drill bit and polish it that way on my drill. Some filing can be done to make it even lighter, but you do not sound like you have experience with that sort of thing so a polish job would probably have to be enough.

goodspeed(TPF)
April 28, 2011, 06:29 PM
Maybe I missed it, but what is the name of the dealer that misrepresented the parts rifle you bought as a factory Rock River rifle? Thank you. -Goodspeed

Quentin2
April 28, 2011, 08:40 PM
Any update on this situation, Steve?