PDA

View Full Version : Unboxing the M1A Super-Match


new2this
April 6, 2011, 11:02 PM
Okay, so I have been lurking around my local gun shop for almost a year, I drool over the M1A Super-Matches, and then I leave as my heart once again falls to the floor only to stay with what it wants most. However, yesterday was different, when I went to look, I had to hold, cycle, then buy. So after an hour of thanking myself, I wound up in my office/armory reading the manual over and over. I was left wondering though. So, I have come to this site in search of much needed advice as to what I should do as soon as I take it out of the box, before I shoot it, and after I shoot it. Would you please help?

geetarman
April 7, 2011, 05:53 AM
Congratulations on the rifle. I think you are really going to like it.

Kraig will probably be along shortly. Listen to what he has to say.

Get some spare magazines. You can get CMI magazines from 44mag.com

They make the magazines for Springfield and they are cheaper than Springfield.

I use TW25 grease on my rifle. I do not use oil.

Take the time to learn how to use the iron sights. They are GOOD sights on that rifle and it will surprise you just how accurate you can be.

You will hear a lot of war stories about .308 and 7.62X51 ammo.

I shoot a lot of German DAG surplus ammo in mine and have no problems.

I have shot some handloaded ammo. 145 gr. bullets and 4895 powder that is surprisingly accurate and soft shooting. Federal Gold 168-175 gr. ammo also shoots fine out of mine.

If you reload, some manuals will show .308 loads for bolt guns as well as semi autos. Stay away from the bolt gun loads. You will sometimes see the same warnings for .223 and 5.56 ammo.

Your rifle will probably shoot best when it is NOT loaded to maximum velocity.

Have fun with your rifle and post some pictures. Just pictures of the rifle . . .please. We would not be able to see what you look like anyway because of the ear to ear smile!!!

Again, congratulations on a fine rifle. Enjoy it!

Geetarman:D

kraigwy
April 7, 2011, 09:24 AM
Super Match M1A...........that was my bread and butter gun when I shot for the guard.

Not much to do to get ready to shoot it, just clean & lube it, and start shooting. DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION OUT OF THE STOCK to clean it.

Get a 1907 Military type sling, a heavy glove, some sweatshirts under a good heavy coat. Use ammo designed for the M1A, nothing heavier then 175s. Use 168s to 600 and 175s past that. Hunt up some high power matches and get after it.

Another hint is to PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you some manuels on the M14/M1A in .pdf format.

They hold up quite will, I've been shooting this one since 1977, shot out a couple barrels and stretched out some slings, but other then that no problems. Magizines are not as much of a problem on M1As as they are on ARs (though I never had a problem with mags for an AR either).

Don't gimmick it up making it look tacti-cool, put the gimmick money in rounds down range.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/posting/websize/M1A%20_1_.jpg

new2this
April 7, 2011, 11:07 AM
Thank you so much, this is actually only my second higher-caliber rifle; however, I'm fourteen, so I have plenty of time to stock-up.

kraigwy
April 7, 2011, 11:19 AM
Ahhh....14 years old, a good start. Contact your state rifle and pistol assn. (via google) get involved in the HP section. Just about all states are always searching for new junior shooters for their Whistler Teams to send to Perry. They also help with ammo, coaching and other expenses.

zukiphile
April 7, 2011, 11:59 AM
Since I don't mind looking stupid, I'll ask.

DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION OUT OF THE STOCK to clean it.



Why?

kraigwy
April 7, 2011, 12:10 PM
DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION OUT OF THE STOCK to clean it.


Why?

It will screw up the bedding. The army manuals on the NM M14s say it should be done only by a gunsmith with experience with the NM rifles.

There is nothing you can't clean and lube that needs cleaned and lubed on the NM M14/M1As you can't get to without removing the action from the stock.

Once you remove the action from the stock, you will have to re-bed or touch up the bedding and have to fire several rounds to get it seated to get back to the accuracy you loose.

Longdayjake
April 7, 2011, 12:18 PM
How did you buy a super match when you are only 14?

zukiphile
April 7, 2011, 12:45 PM
I would guess that New2this has a trusting parent.

Kraig, thanks for the explanation. I've never had a bedded rifle, but I do habitually dissamble new items just to see how they are put together.

thesheepdog
April 7, 2011, 01:07 PM
How did you buy a super match when you are only 14?

I concur; never seen a kid of your age come to own such a great weapon; and a pricey one that is.
But congrats! You're one lucky son-of-a-gun.

4EVERM-14
April 7, 2011, 03:38 PM
Kraigwy gave all of the good answers. I'll just add clean he gas system every 300-500 rounds. Spend money on ammo.
The M1A is the best position shooting teacher. She is a hard taskmaster. Very unforgiving but offers the greatest feeling of accomplishment when the two of you work together. She will make you a real Rifleman.

RGPM1A
April 7, 2011, 03:59 PM
t will screw up the bedding. The army manuals on the NM M14s say it should be done only by a gunsmith with experience with the NM rifles.

There is nothing you can't clean and lube that needs cleaned and lubed on the NM M14/M1As you can't get to without removing the action from the stock.

Once you remove the action from the stock, you will have to re-bed or touch up the bedding and have to fire several rounds to get it seated to get back to the accuracy you loose.
__________________

I think you are being a bit drastic about removing the action from the stock. It should not be done very often - maybe once a year to detail clean the rifle. However, I would recommend that the OP at least detail strip the gun (remove action from the stock) and properly lube it before he shoots it for the first time. SAI always sends rifles out virtually dry.

BTW I have been shooting bedded M1As for quite a while too and I take the rifle down once a season. Not suffered any issues yet and my action has been out of the stock five times - you are right about having to reseat the action in the bedding with a few shots to settle it in. My rifle (M1A M21 w/LP3.5x10x40 LR/T) will still shoot dime sized 5 shot groups off the bench at 100 yards all day. See attached. Cheers

HunterGuy
April 7, 2011, 04:23 PM
I do habitually dissamble new items just to see how they are put together.

I too suffer from this vice. Although, all my friends ask me for help when something does go wrong on their guns. 99% of the time I know what is causing the problems.

Then again, I have taken some things apart that needed some professional help in re-assembling :D

new2this
April 7, 2011, 08:58 PM
My mother, god bless her, is probably a little too trusting zukiphile. The reason for the armory-augmenting transaction was centered around a deal we made; if I were to shoot a perfect 300 pt. competition, then she would by me one. :cool:

Single Six
April 7, 2011, 09:03 PM
New2this: Congratulations on a fine rifle, and also a belated "welcome" to TFL. Now, with that said, please ask your mom if she'd consider adopting me. :D

4EVERM-14
April 8, 2011, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy
DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION OUT OF THE STOCK to clean it.
I'm with Kraigwy on this one. Bedded actions generally don't just fall out of the stock. They need to be "encouraged". Doing that to much can cause enough subtle damage to the bedding to effect mid range [600yd] accuracy. Even at 300 yards. It's something to be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

mnero
April 8, 2011, 03:58 PM
All I can say is I am jealous! Just can't afford another rifle right now especially not an M1A not at 1400$

Tim R
April 8, 2011, 08:07 PM
All I can say is I am jealous! Just can't afford another rifle right now especially not an M1A not at 1400$

Ah, you might have to double that and maybe even add some for a super match.

I too am a believer in leaving the rifle in the stock. It always took awhile for the rifle to settle back in. The areas which need cleaning and lube are acessable from the outside.

Chick
April 8, 2011, 08:53 PM
Have you watched the armorers take the action out of a NM rifle? They have a stack of phone books, and literally beat the comb of the stock across the books, to get it broke loose. After seeing that, you will realize the damage you can do to the bedding, and why you should never take it out.

RGPM1A
April 16, 2011, 03:19 AM
Have you watched the armorers take the action out of a NM rifle? They have a stack of phone books, and literally beat the comb of the stock across the books, to get it broke loose. After seeing that, you will realize the damage you can do to the bedding, and why you should never take it out.

I am amazed by the continued dramatic comments about removing a bedded M1A action out of a stock. It should not be done routinely but it HAS to be done to properly detail clean and lube the rifle at least once a season. Removing a bedded or un-bedded action from the stock is done by flipping the rifle upside down, unlatching the trigger group, removing the trigger group, resting the hand guard on your left knee, and lifting the stock of the rifle up and bouncing it off your right knee at the comb of the stock. The action will pop out after a few bounces. Simple as that. No drama at all.

4EVERM-14
April 16, 2011, 05:51 PM
Quote:
Have you watched the armorers take the action out of a NM rifle? They have a stack of phone books, and literally beat the comb of the stock across the books, to get it broke loose. After seeing that, you will realize the damage you can do to the bedding, and why you should never take it out.
I am amazed by the continued dramatic comments about removing a bedded M1A action out of a stock. It should not be done routinely but it HAS to be done to properly detail clean and lube the rifle at least once a season. Removing a bedded or un-bedded action from the stock is done by flipping the rifle upside down, unlatching the trigger group, removing the trigger group, resting the hand guard on your left knee, and lifting the stock of the rifle up and bouncing it off your right knee at the comb of the stock. The action will pop out after a few bounces. Simple as that. No drama at all.

At one time it was a common practice to glue the action to the bedding. This helped extend the life of the bedding and further stabilize the system. Glued in rifles were only dismounted for rebarreling or broken internal parts. Removing a glued in action required that the rifle be placed in the freezer. It took serious effort to pop the action but generally came out after two or three good raps.

kraigwy
April 16, 2011, 06:57 PM
Anybody can take an action out of the stock, the trick is getting it back together so it will shoot. It takes a trained smith, trained on the match M14/M1As.

Just because one says they "do it all the time" does not mean its done right.

RGPM1A
April 17, 2011, 01:56 AM
Do any of the posters who say to never remove the action from from a bedded stock actually have an M1A and actually shoot it a lot? If you did I think you would have a different opinion.

I actually have one and do shoot it a lot (photo attached). If you shoot a lot you will need to remove the action from the stock to properly maintain/lube the gun.

Kraigwy let us see some of your targets and M1A.

Peter M. Eick
April 17, 2011, 10:03 AM
Congrads on the SuperMatch. I shot mine 10 years before I took it out of the stock for a good cleaning. No problems so I put it back in carefully and kept shooting.

Start thinking about the right tools. You need a set of cleaning drills for the piston and cap, a cylinder wrench and a plug wrench. Next you need to get a bore guide (Dewey) a good cleaning rod and cleaning stand.

Once you have that, then shoot it. I live mine and it works well.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/sm_targets2.jpg

50 shots per target,100 yrds off the bench.

kraigwy
April 17, 2011, 07:00 PM
Do any of the posters who say to never remove the action from from a bedded stock actually have an M1A and actually shoot it a lot? If you did I think you would have a different opinion.

Ummm, yeap, I got one, (picture below). Bought it in 1977 as a standard grade, it was converted to Super Match in the late 70s early 80s. by Jene Barnett (Barnett Barrels) who was working as an Armor for the All Guard Team at the time. He recommended not taking it out of the stock.

I ran the Alaska National Guard Rifle Team from about 1978-1992, using match grade and M14s. I sent people and attended the NGBs National Match Armors clinic. I went to sniper school and taught sniper schools using the M-21. When I say I used them, I mean I used then quite heavily, as in shooting hundred of matches in the last 30 plus years. I got my distinguished rifle badge with this M1A.

Sir I have a great deal of experience with National Match M14/M1As. You take them out of the stock, it screws up the bedding, it has to be reset, by touching up the bedding and shot until the action settles in. There is nothing that needs cleaned & lubed on a M14/M1A you can't get to while leaving the action in the stock.

If you shoot your M1A at in competition, at least once a month plus practice, chances are you are going to have to re barrel it, thats when it comes out of the stock.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/posting/websize/M1A%20_1_.jpg

4EVERM-14
April 17, 2011, 08:22 PM
Do any of the posters who say to never remove the action from from a bedded stock actually have an M1A and actually shoot it a lot? If you did I think you would have a different opinion.
My rifles look just like the one kraigwy posted.[I actually don't have a picture of mine.]
I purchased my first one in 1980 and have used it continually since. I earned Highmaster classification, Distinguished Rifleman Badge, Presidents 100, State Rifle Champion with the M1A. All using iron sights and from position.[200-600 yards] I have dismounted my rifles once after being caught in the rain. The only other times have been for rebarreling and rebedding. The rifles will almost always shoot fine at close range. Tight bedding causes repeatable rifle harmonics resulting in exceptional accuracy [sub MOA] beyond 200 yards. Unnecessarily disturbing the bedding upsets this potential. Remember .008" movement at the line ends up 6" at 600yards. Dismounting the rifle may not cause problems at short range but when the target is 1000yds away one can not afford any bedding instability. Been there, got the t-shirt.

RGPM1A
April 18, 2011, 05:07 AM
So for those who replied and say to never remove the action from the rifle. How do you lube the op rod/op rod guide/spring interface or dismount the op rod? Remove the bolt if necessary for maintenance (ejector, extractor, firing pin)? Do you ever unlatch and remove the trigger group for cleaning or would that also disturb the bedding? Or do you just run the guns dry, and only clean the barrel and gas system? Did all of you always have an armorer (or $ and a gunsmith) at your disposal to maintain your rifles for you - some of us out here at not so fortunate?

As far as affecting/destroying the rifles long range precision. From my experience if a M1A won't group at 100 or 200 yards using 168 or 175 grain bullets it won't group beyond that (at 300 to 800 yards) using them either with otherwise identical range conditions.

4EVERM-14
April 18, 2011, 02:37 PM
There is a test to see if the bedding has loosened. It involves pushing the receiver in one direction and the gas system in the other. If the bedding is loose a faint POP can be heard. This is the receiver moving in the bedding. I know one shooter who did test this so often on a perfectly good rifle that IT was the cause of bedding damage.
Yes ,the trigger group can be removed. The op-rod detached and bolt removed without dismounting the rifle and there is enough room to lube the guide using a syringe type applicator.
I'm only saying that dismounting the rifle should be avoided not that the rifle will be ruined beyond repair. Particularly if your interest is mid range and long range accuracy.
As far as affecting/destroying the rifles long range precision. From my experience if a M1A won't group at 100 or 200 yards using 168 or 175 grain bullets it won't group beyond that (at 300 to 800 yards) using them either with otherwise identical range conditions.
You are absolutely correct. But conversely a rifle that won't shoot at 600 yards may still be a tac-driver at 200.
BTW. Peter M.Eick, That is a fine looking rifle.