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WeedWacker
April 6, 2011, 02:52 PM
there was an article I remember where they set up a scenario with a home invader and the "home owner" had to search out this individual. they performed this with simulation arms (air-soft or simmunition) and I remember the homeowner usually wasn't in the favorable outcome the majority of the time. I believe I got the link from this forum but I can't remember where. Anyone have any ideas?

Don P
April 7, 2011, 09:12 AM
Not about the link your looking for. Call 911 and let the pros clear the house. It has been suggested on this forum before that it would be best if arriving home to find the door ajar calling 911 and let LE clear the house.

skifast
April 7, 2011, 01:06 PM
I agree that house clearing is not something one person wants to do by himself. That being said, if one of my children was in danger, I would clear my house. Clint Smith put out a good video. I am sure there are others.

raimius
April 7, 2011, 09:41 PM
One-man clearing can be done, but it leaves you with 1:1 odds at best. It is NOT a preferred method!

Rule 2 of gunfighting: Bring all your friends who have guns.

WeedWacker
April 8, 2011, 04:10 AM
Not about the link your looking for. Call 911 and let the pros clear the house. It has been suggested on this forum before that it would be best if arriving home to find the door ajar calling 911 and let LE clear the house.

Which was the point of the article I'm looking for. I found another one but it was a scenario where the individual was in a conveinience store as an off duty cop and was searching out the BG. The bad guy won most of the time. It was intended to prove the point to call backup and hold position rather than seeking a threat in an unknown location.

Glenn E. Meyer
April 8, 2011, 09:17 AM
One source for such is Mas Ayoob referencing his experience at the NTI. Where he actually wrote it - dunno.

But I've seen it in such. At an advance tac course at Karl Rehn's - the newbies who wandered out to engage the bad guys were quite embarassed and sometimes knocked on their cans.

Now all BGs aren't going to be skilled opponents but that's the way it goes. My experience as a person in cover is that the entering team is at a significant disadvantage without overwhelming force and tactics.

Don P
April 8, 2011, 10:08 AM
Now all BGs aren't going to be skilled opponents but that's the way it goes. My experience as a person in cover is that the entering team is at a significant disadvantage without overwhelming force and tactics.

I concur and as I stated call da FUZZ:eek:

markj
April 8, 2011, 02:38 PM
Open door, let 80- lbs of mean in and listen for the screams to subside, then I know it is all clear in there and head for the mop and a bucket...

Sleuth
April 8, 2011, 04:41 PM
During my career in Law Enforcement, I have searched some houses for bad guys. Even with trained, experienced backup on hand, it was an "E Ticket Ride" each and every time.

And if you think your dog will always win, sadly an outlaw prepared to kill a person cares nothing about shooting your dog.

So, like all the others here, TAKE COVER AND CALL THE POLICE!

Nuff said.

jimbob86
April 8, 2011, 05:03 PM
I only saw the "Looking For Tactical House" on the New Posts list ....I imediately thought that such a thing would jus be a regular house, painted black, with plastic furniture...... with an inflated price....:D

TeamSinglestack
April 8, 2011, 06:37 PM
Open door, let 80- lbs of mean in and listen for the screams to subside, then I know it is all clear in there and head for the mop and a bucket...

LOL!

A 4 legged, furry, flash-bang-with-teeth, can certainly make life a lot easier for the good guys.

:D

At an advance tac course at Karl Rehn's - the newbies who wandered out to engage the bad guys were quite embarassed and sometimes knocked on their cans.

A lot of that has to do with what conditions are placed on the participants.

1 on 1 in a building, where the only goal of the participants is to survive, the individual that remains in a static defensive position is going to have the advantage. Change the conditions, and the results may change as well.

A home owner can have advantages over a home invader, depending on the conditions, that can certainly warrant taking a more aggressive approach than simply establishing a static defensive position.
-Early warning due to a compromised breach of the premises.
-Familiarity with the layout of the premises.
-Stealth and surprise.
-Firepower.
-Mindset.

Home invaders may be solely focused on finding and securing valuables, employ little to no security, and easily susceptible to the stealthy approach of a home owner from an unexpected location, or an ambush.

While the safest approach is to simply hunker down and pull security on the door / hall, this is not necessarily the ONLY approach available, and largely dependent on the conditions at any given time, your individual limitations, and the risk you are willing to accept.

While I wouldn't risk attempting to clear an unfamiliar home solo, given the right conditions and a favorable risk assessment, there would be times that I would opt to clear my own home.

Mr. Davis
April 8, 2011, 07:37 PM
Jeez, people, read the original post before commenting.

He's looking for a link to an article that talks about why house clearing by yourself is a BAD idea. Most responders are just sermonizing about the fallacy of house clearing. Based on the OP, you're preaching to the choir.

I don't know where the article is but I'd encourage you to Google using keywords such as "Airsoft" and "Force on Force".

Don P
April 8, 2011, 08:03 PM
All from a Google search


http://www.wikihow.com/Clear-a-Building-with-a-Firearm

http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/clearingyourhome.htm

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/3421/gunsite-house-clearing/

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/drkcr.html

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=house+clearing+with+a+firearm#q=house+clearing+with+a+firearm&hl=en&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=KbCfTc7FO8iitgeW75SbAw&ved=0CEwQqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=15552c02145427b5

And this from this forum six pages and 133 posts, http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314788

markj
April 13, 2011, 03:49 PM
And if you think your dog will always win, sadly an outlaw prepared to kill a person cares nothing about shooting your dog

I know this well, I had a pit bull years ago, a guy came in had a 38, dog took it away but was shot in his head doing so. Dog lived guy had it real bad after that, sold the gun to a friend after checking the serial for stolen. I was in bed when this happened. A good dog will lay down his life for you. might give ya enough time to get away to a safe place.

When I was 15 someone broke into the house while dad and mom were on a vacation. I called 911 and let them go thru the house. Found where he went in and went out.

fastbolt
April 13, 2011, 04:37 PM
Like many other folks who spent a career in LE, I've had circumstances arise where I had to clear a small-to medium size structure myself. It's definitely not the preferred method. The advantage is not typically yours when you're the sole searcher.

Clearing a structure is best done at least as a 2-person team, at a minimum. Having a K9 available can be better, depending ...

Someone searching a structure, even if it's one with which the searching person is familiar, can easily place the searcher at a disadvantage. If nothing else, the searcher has to look, see and recognize any differences among the familiar environment, often under reduced/low light conditions ... while the person(s) being sought only have to react to incoming movement (against the still background) and/or noise.

Call 911 and let the folks who practice this sort of thing and are (hopefully) practiced in performing this sort of task together, do their thing.

Naturally, it's preferable, if at all possible, to not be inside the structure yourself as they do their thing. Unnecessary distractions and surprises occurring in elevated stress situations situations are best avoided, when possible.