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Brandon
November 4, 1998, 11:04 PM
With all of the talk about flashlights and point vs front sight shooting, I thought I would ask opinions on laser sights. Most opinions are devided on this topic. Some thing they are heven sent for accuracy and "intimidation" factor. Others think they are designed to destroy good shooting skills or, at best, they are just a gimick. In a fast and furious close quarters battle I would think that they could come in handy IF one knew the limitations of such a device. Opinions?

Thanks,
Brandon

PS I am pleased with the info I have found in these boards. It is good to get helpfull discussion without having to filter through the bickering. Hats off to you guys.

Rob Pincus
November 4, 1998, 11:18 PM
Brandon, first, as a regular poster, I want to thank you for your observation. I also hope that the discussion around here can stay so very intellectual and respectful of one another's ideas.

As to the Laser sights, we were discussing these somewhere else around here.

IMHO, Lasers are a bit of a gimmick. They require a different shooting technique than sights or even point shooting. Just as I cannot afford to put night sights on all of my handguns, I cannot either afford to put lasers on all of them. So I have to train to the lowest common denominator, which is, for me, point shooting.
I think the intimidation factor theory has some interesting baggage along with it, for instance who the hell are you trying to intimidate with a pulsing red light that isn't afraid of the business end of your gun in the first place? but I haven't thought that one all the way through yet.

As I said on the other thread, whereever it is, I think lasers have a great deal of training potential, but that is where their value ends for me, except for some IR laser low-light/no-light applications with tactical rifles.

Brandon
November 4, 1998, 11:31 PM
Rob,
I can see where it would be a great training aid. It would allow a student a safe, "ammo free" training aid for dryfire practice with both point and sight shooting. Also, that was a great point on the intimidation factor theory. The muzzle would look HUGE from their point of view wouldn't it? That would be a bit more intimidating for them.

On the IR sight comments: there was a special on not too long ago. Discovery or TLC was airing it. IIRC it was on the US Park Police. They showed a night SWAT op outdoors using night vision goggles (NVG's) and weapon mounted IR sights. First footage I have seen of this technology. The "firefly" units worn by the team helped identify each member while keeping light disipline. It was interesting. Keep an I out for that special.

Yours'
Brandon

4V50 Gary
November 4, 1998, 11:50 PM
I agree with Brandon on its application as a training aid. You can watch the student's light bounce up and down if they're flinching. You can observe the steadiness of their trigger pull - especially with a long double action pull.

There are some instances where the intimidation factor has deescalated an incident. It's worked on the streets and in some prison fights (too bad).

While they're nice, they're no substitute for practice and concentration on your front sight. I like mine (yes, I own one for a J frame), but I keep a 9mm and 45 for home defense.

They are fun to play with and watch the dog chase after too.

Spectre
November 5, 1998, 10:17 PM
While I could say that I don't believe in laser sights...'cuz SOF (PGK) doesn't, I won't. :)

Seriously, in most situations, lasers seem to be used as an excuse for poor weapons presentation skills. MO, of course. Like anything else, I am certain that they can be used in a profitable manner, though I doubt they usually are.

longhair
November 6, 1998, 09:39 AM
i have a brother-in-law, or should i say my wifes brother, who is a leo. he had a call of
a gang of youths causing hate and disconent.
he was dispatched and arrived first. so there he was, one against many. he had a laser mounted on an shotgun, and according to him the imtimidation factor was great. he was able to keep thing under control until backup
arrived. so at least in one case, the laser
worked, at least well enough to keep him safe till backup came......



------------------
longhair

yoni
November 8, 1998, 11:53 PM
Lasers are useful but only id they are infared used in conjunction with NVG, for very special situations. The commercial red dot lasers are a gimmick and slower to use than regular sights. As far as deterance,if the bad guy doesn't think you will shoot him then it doesn;t matter if you light him up like Las Vegas with your laser he will call your bluff.

SB
November 13, 1998, 01:48 AM
IMHO, lasers will never replace a good SureFire. In near darkness, lasers can't show you what you're shooting at. During high-intensity shooting, it slows you down by half a second at least just trying to fish for that red dot. As for intimidation, you could get into legal trouble just for pointing a gun in the first place.

Harry Humphries
November 18, 1998, 08:53 PM
Laser designators have been covered before. It's a good subject but I refer to my prior comments.